Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

1…229230232234235…327

Comments

  • #6932
    Feria40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭Feria40


    This having to second guess is a balls. Can't they at least give some kind of road map? I mean if they came out and said no non essential foreign travel until August 31st, It would be rubbish but at least we'd know where we stand.

    They could include a caveat that it may be pulled forward/pushed back depending on data (Donnelly's dart board)

    I'm not due to go anywhere til July but do I bite the bullet and book Belfast is the question now.


  • #6933
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,512 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Darwin wrote: »
    The EU complaint link is somewhere in this thread, if anyone finds it please post it. Without the domestic restriction the international restriction is no longer justified.

    Edit: Here it is I think:

    https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en/

    Here's my half-arsed effort. Feel free to correct/adapt.

    ----

    National measures suspected to infringe Union law: (required)
    S.I. No. 217 of 2021 Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (COVID-19) (No. 2) Regulations 2021. Specifically, the Restrictions of movement of applicable persons in relation to travel from place of residence to port or airport, and associated 2000 EUR fine.

    EU law you think has been breached
    Article 45 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union
    Article 21 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU

    Please describe the problem (Describe the problem max of 7000 characters):
    S.I. No. 217 of 2021 Health Act 1947, and specifically, the restrictions of movement of applicable persons in relation to travel from place of residence to port or airport, and associated 2000 EUR fine, was introduced on 10 May. This renews the measures introduced in S.I. No. 168 of 2021, which lapsed on 10 May 2021. During the period when within Ireland people could not without reasonable excuse travel outside their own county or within 20km of their home if crossing county boundaries, it was deemed proportionate to restrict travel to other Member States for non-essential purposes. These domestic restrictions have now been lifted, but travel to other Member States is still prohibited. The SI in question, to renew the international travel restriction, was introduced on the same day (10 May) that the domestic restrictions ended. This SI is a gross violation of my right to move freely within the EU under Article 45 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union and Article 21 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU.

    Please explain how EU law is involved and which fundamental right has been breached
    Under Article 45 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.

    Supporting documents
    S.I. No. 217 of 2021 Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (COVID-19) (No. 2) Regulations 2021
    https://assets.gov.ie/134499/bb2a7e1a-4170-446d-b09d-9c024dff8d0c.pdf


  • #6934
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,275 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Lumen wrote: »
    Motherfcukers.

    Honestly, every time I see the word ‘scumbags’ trending on Irish Twitter I click in expecting to see people tweeting about Donnelly and NPHET but find it to be about kids in Malahide and Howth.


  • #6935
    irishguitarlad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,867 ✭✭✭irishguitarlad


    embraer170 wrote: »
    There is no hotel quarantine from Spain.

    If things don't change, you have home quarantine but you can free yourself from that after 5 days with a PCR test.

    Cheers, hopefully it doesn't change. I'll hold out until last minute to book it I'd say.


  • #6936
    Feria40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭Feria40


    irishguitarlad wrote: »
    Cheers, hopefully it doesn't change. I'll hold out until last minute to book it I'd say.

    There is almost zero chance that Spain or any other EU countries will be added to the MHQ list unless one of the scarients becomes an actual full blown, vaccine evading, deadly variant.


  • Advertisement
  • #6937
    Feria40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭Feria40


    I did notice last night that Ryanair's Summer flights to Malaga are slated to restart in the first week of June.

    Perhaps this assumed start has been in place for some time or maybe it ties in with today's law change.

    Can't say as I wasn't browsing flights from Shannon prior to now


  • #6938
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,275 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Lumen wrote: »
    Here's my half-arsed effort. Feel free to correct/adapt.

    ----

    National measures suspected to infringe Union law: (required)
    S.I. No. 217 of 2021 Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (COVID-19) (No. 2) Regulations 2021. Specifically, the Restrictions of movement of applicable persons in relation to travel from place of residence to port or airport, and associated 2000 EUR fine.

    EU law you think has been breached
    Article 45 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union
    Article 21 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU

    Please describe the problem (Describe the problem max of 7000 characters):
    S.I. No. 217 of 2021 Health Act 1947, and specifically, the restrictions of movement of applicable persons in relation to travel from place of residence to port or airport, and associated 2000 EUR fine, was introduced on 10 May. This renews the measures introduced in S.I. No. 168 of 2021, which lapsed on 10 May 2021. During the period when within Ireland people could not without reasonable excuse travel outside their own county or within 20km of their home if crossing county boundaries, it was deemed proportionate to restrict travel to other Member States for non-essential purposes. These domestic restrictions have now been lifted, but travel to other Member States is still prohibited. The SI in question, to renew the international travel restriction, was introduced on the same day (10 May) that the domestic restrictions ended. This SI is a gross violation of my right to move freely within the EU under Article 45 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union and Article 21 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU.

    Please explain how EU law is involved and which fundamental right has been breached
    Under Article 45 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.

    Supporting documents
    S.I. No. 217 of 2021 Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (COVID-19) (No. 2) Regulations 2021
    https://assets.gov.ie/134499/bb2a7e1a-4170-446d-b09d-9c024dff8d0c.pdf

    Thanks so much for taking the time to do this. I have now submitted the same complaint.


  • #6939
    Feria40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 442 ✭✭Feria40


    Given today's restriction is for the guts of a month it's hard to fathom why it was only rolled for 6 days last time around


  • #6940
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,512 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Feria40 wrote: »
    Given today's restriction is for the guts of a month it's hard to fathom why it was only rolled for 6 days last time around

    It's quite handy that it was done that way, because the new SI is cleanly and clearly disproportionate from commencement and for its entire duration.


  • #6941
    Chuck Norris 2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭Chuck Norris 2021


    Feria40 wrote: »
    Given today's restriction is for the guts of a month it's hard to fathom why it was only rolled for 6 days last time around

    A lot changed today, so it was just more convenient to leave the old one in place and extend, then issue a revised one today. Or maybe SD was waiting for permission from his masters in NPHET.

    It would probably do no harm for people on here to bombard twitter, especially @EU_Commission, @EU_Justice, @dreynders and media outlets to draw attention to this new violation. After all, seems to have worked for all those wanting MHQ to be brought in?


  • Advertisement
  • #6942
    Darwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭Darwin


    I've submitted another complaint as well and emphasised their original response too. The more noise that is made the better.


  • #6943
    Chuck Norris 2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭Chuck Norris 2021


    Darwin wrote: »
    I've submitted another complaint as well and emphasised their original response too. The more noise that is made the better.

    +1. Big thanks to those sharing the information.


  • #6944
    JojoLoca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭JojoLoca


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Thanks so much for taking the time to do this. I have now submitted the same complaint.

    Same here. Thanks Lumen for posting it.


  • #6945
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Feria40 wrote: »
    There is almost zero chance that Spain or any other EU countries will be added to the MHQ list unless one of the scarients becomes an actual full blown, vaccine evading, deadly variant.

    NPHET wanted Germany and a few other EU countries added to the MHQ list due to growing case numbers which left the govt to clarify that MHQ is only for Variants of Concern or Variants under Investigation so unless one of those appear in Spain they're unlikely to add that to our MHQ list

    if you're particularly concerned then consider Malta or Portugal as they are highly unlikely to have variants


  • #6946
    Chuck Norris 2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭Chuck Norris 2021


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    NPHET wanted Germany and a few other EU countries added to the MHQ list due to growing case numbers which left the govt to clarify that MHQ is only for Variants of Concern or Variants under Investigation so unless one of those appear in Spain they're unlikely to add that to our MHQ list

    if you're particularly concerned then consider Malta or Portugal as they are highly unlikely to have variants

    I haven't seen any scientific back up or parameters for measuring variant treat, i.e. how many cases of a variant have to be present for a country to be added? A bit silly when you consider that close to 100% of cases in ireland are a variant (UK). Variants can appear anywhere, and are difficult to contain. I would imagine that a lot of the fear surrounding them will be debunked by actual experts soon.


  • #6947
    dublin_paul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭dublin_paul


    I've submitted a complaint too. Friends in Switzerland are horrified by our travel restrictions, they can't believe how there's a 2,000 euro fine for international travel. I strongly encourage others to lodge a complaint with the EU.


  • #6948
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    From https://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...uarantine.html




    no mention of this planned to be stopped.

    They don't generally predict the future


  • #6949
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah we are back to the complaint again. Because Ireland is enacting it's sovereign control against which people's sole argument is "but but but freedom of movement" which isn't being stopped.

    The fine is gone it seems by viewing the latest si. so what exactly is your complaint?


  • #6950
    Blut2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Darwin wrote: »
    The EU complaint link is somewhere in this thread, if anyone finds it please post it. Without the domestic restriction the international restriction is no longer justified.

    Edit: Here it is I think:

    https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en/

    Anyone who wants to travel this summer, and is upset with the government's current travel policy, should definitely use this link to complain to the EU.

    Its also however very much worth your while emailing your local TDs. You can use this site to find out their details:

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/

    Even just a copy pasted email complaint to each of them will do wonders, it won't take more than 2 minutes.

    Something like:
    Hi,

    I'm a constituent of yours, [your name and address]

    I'm writing to you to express my displease at the current government's policies on restricting air travel.

    The €2000 fine for travel to an airport, and the Mandatory Health Quarantine policy on arrivals from certain countries, are disproportionate blanket measures which are greatly harming the personal lives of many Irish citizens, and severely impacting our economy. Every day that they're in place more families are being torn apart, and more livelihoods are lost.

    With covid now firmly under control in Ireland and our neighbours there is no evidence based reasoning for these policies. Ireland is a complete outlier in Europe in implementing and maintaining them.

    Could you tell me your position on working towards removing them as soon as possible? This is an important issue for me and my family, and will have a big influence on our voting in the next general election.

    Thanks,
    The EU will complain to the Irish government, but the process will be slow. Getting our local TDs on-board is the only way to get things done more effectively.


  • #6951
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,506 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Feria40 wrote: »
    I did notice last night that Ryanair's Summer flights to Malaga are slated to restart in the first week of June.

    Perhaps this assumed start has been in place for some time or maybe it ties in with today's law change.

    Can't say as I wasn't browsing flights from Shannon prior to now

    Malaga was never cancelled from Dublin completely just liable to being cancelled or changed last minute, which was a headache when your getting to connect.

    Ryanair have been cutting flights on a month by month basis. If there's bookings, they fly. If not, they mothball the plane. It's June now but come mid May that will be examined.

    Fly into Madrid and connect or get renfe / alsa. Seems the only reliable method.


  • Advertisement
  • #6952
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 11,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Time to email all your TDs again and complain .

    Cant upload the list but its here.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116600511&postcount=7084


  • #6953
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,275 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Ah we are back to the complaint again. Because Ireland is enacting it's sovereign control against which people's sole argument is "but but but freedom of movement" which isn't being stopped.

    The fine is gone it seems by viewing the latest si. so what exactly is your complaint?

    The €2000 fine is still there:
    6.
    Regulation 4(1) of the Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (Covid-19) (No.2) Regulations 2021 (S.I. No. 217 of 2021)
    €2,000


  • #6954
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,512 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Ah we are back to the complaint again. Because Ireland is enacting it's sovereign control against which people's sole argument is "but but but freedom of movement" which isn't being stopped.

    The fine is gone it seems by viewing the latest si. so what exactly is your complaint?

    S.I. No. 219 has the schedule of fines in it, and includes the 2k, but maybe you're better at reading these than I am.


  • #6955
    dublin_paul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 114 ✭✭dublin_paul


    Lumen wrote: »
    S.I. No. 219 has the schedule of fines in it, and includes the 2k, but maybe you're better at reading these than I am.

    No you're right, Stephen Donnelly renewed it today (on the date of expiry) until June


  • #6956
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,994 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    normanoffside wrote: »
    The €2000 fine is still there:
    6.
    Regulation 4(1) of the Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (Covid-19) (No.2) Regulations 2021 (S.I. No. 217 of 2021)
    €2,000

    When was 217 published? Not in Iris Oifigiul on Friday 7 May.


  • #6957
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,275 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Marcusm wrote: »
    When was 217 published? Not in Iris Oifigiul on Friday 7 May.

    Second link in Stephen's post
    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    SI were signed yesterday to come into effect from today

    https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/1f150-view-statutory-instruments-related-to-the-covid-19-pandemic/

    For those who'd been looking at the travel one, SI 217 in place until 2nd June. Part 2 section 4 is where you'll want to look for the travel section

    https://assets.gov.ie/134499/bb2a7e1a-4170-446d-b09d-9c024dff8d0c.pdf


  • #6958
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »
    I haven't seen any scientific back up or parameters for measuring variant treat, i.e. how many cases of a variant have to be present for a country to be added? A bit silly when you consider that close to 100% of cases in ireland are a variant (UK). Variants can appear anywhere, and are difficult to contain. I would imagine that a lot of the fear surrounding them will be debunked by actual experts soon.

    Information on how a country gets added to the list is not publicly available to the best of my knowledge. As you say a variant of concern can spring up anywhere, although it would do so specifically in areas where the case numbers are high

    The actual experts are concerned about a number of the variants so the fear around them is actually quite real, or do you mean the "expert" that gives you the answer you want?


  • #6959
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,994 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Second link in Stephen's post

    Thanks; so revoked and reintroduced yesterday. An Irish solution to an Irish problem. It is unlawful to go to an airport or port within the State for the purposes of travelling abroad but it is not unlawful to go to a port or airport in Northern Ireland for the same purpose. I fail to see how this is meeting any public policy objective.


  • #6960
    Blut2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    Information on how a country gets added to the list is not publicly available to the best of my knowledge. As you say a variant of concern can spring up anywhere, although it would do so specifically in areas where the case numbers are high

    The actual experts are concerned about a number of the variants so the fear around them is actually quite real, or do you mean the "expert" that gives you the answer you want?

    The Robert Koch Institute, one of the leading international bodies on infectious disease control (ie "actual experts"), only lists the following regions as high risk for variants globally as of May 7th:

    •Botswana (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 22 November 2020)
    •Brazil (since 19 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Eswatini (since 31 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •India (since 26 April 2021; high incidence on 25 April 2021; already a risk area since15 June 2020)
    •Lesotho (since 31 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Malawi (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Mozambique (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •South Africa (since 13 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Zambia (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Zimbabwe (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)

    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Transport/Archiv_Risikogebiete/Risikogebiete_aktuell_en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

    If the Irish government is going to claim countries on our red list are there because of "variants", but the ECDC or RKI say they those countries are not a risk, then the obligation is on the Irish government to explain, with scientific evidence, why they disagree.

    Spoiler: they haven't. Which would suggest the Irish government don't, infact, know better than the experts. And that the MHQ list is not evidence based.


  • Advertisement
  • #6961
    Valhallapt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    Blut2 wrote: »
    The Robert Koch Institute, one of the leading international bodies on infectious disease control (ie "actual experts"), only lists the following regions as high risk for variants globally as of May 7th:

    •Botswana (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 22 November 2020)
    •Brazil (since 19 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Eswatini (since 31 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •India (since 26 April 2021; high incidence on 25 April 2021; already a risk area since15 June 2020)
    •Lesotho (since 31 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Malawi (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Mozambique (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •South Africa (since 13 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Zambia (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
    •Zimbabwe (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)

    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Transport/Archiv_Risikogebiete/Risikogebiete_aktuell_en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

    If the Irish government is going to claim countries on our red list are there because of "variants", but the ECDC or RKI say they those countries are not a risk, then the obligation is on the Irish government to explain, with scientific evidence, why they disagree.

    Spoiler: they haven't. Which would suggest the Irish government don't, infact, know better than the experts. And that the MHQ list is not evidence based.

    This is a failure of journalism and the media to hold the government to account.

    The question should be put to Donnelly “what evidence do you have that leads you to a different interpretation from the ecdc and rki” and “have you shared this evidence with your EU colleagues”


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement