All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-05-2021 10:32am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

My monday astro game is back on tomorrow at 8. How long will the owners of the pitches keep up the lie that its on because I read on this thread that all the restrictions are permanent so its not possible the game will be on...............

I'm off to Chester today to do some day drinking with friends I haven't seen for a while, I hope the government doesn't bring back restrictions between now and 1 pm

PintOfView · 09-05-2021 10:32am

Parachutes wrote: »

Masks are a good litmus test of public compliance and serve as a visual reminder for the average Joe Soap that a big, bad, deadly pandemic is going on.

Do you think there's any possibility that masks
actually reduce the transmission of the virus?

King Mob · 09-05-2021 10:33am

Sorry, but none of these make any sense.

Parachutes wrote: »

With lockdowns, we can only speculate.. most likely answer, in my opinion is that governments are simply inept and incompetent. Lockdown is simply the easiest way for them to appear to be doing something while absolving their responsibilities on everything else (the economy for example) they have gone and dug themselves a hole now of a perpetual cycle of lockdown-slight easing-lockdown again when cases go up.

Why would they do this permanently? How does doing this permanently benefit them in the long run when the measures are unpopular, and would be increasingly unpopular when they are no longer needed and/or the effects of lockdown become worse?

Parachutes wrote: »

Travel restrictions serve as a great way to stop people protesting the actions of governments.

But this doesn't make any sense as there have been many protests against lockdown all over the world. So clearly the travel restrictions don't work for that.

Parachutes wrote: »

Masks are a good litmus test of public compliance and serve as a visual reminder for the average Joe Soap that a big, bad, deadly pandemic is going on.

But this is meaningless nonsense.

What do you mean by "test of public compliance"? What is the point of their testing?
And why would people need masks to remind them there's a pandemic?
What purpose does this reminder serve?
And again, why would forcing people to wear masks permanently be of benefit to them? Why would permanent testing for no reason and pointless reminders help them more than cause them to anger the populace?

I'm sorry, but what you're suggesting isn't that much different from the vague and ridiculous stuff we've heard before...

Parachutes · 09-05-2021 10:36am

PintOfView wrote: »

But that's not correct,
lots of people think that social distancing and masks and 'essential reasons' are going away once enough people are vaccinated!

There may be an element of truth in what you said there.
However isn't it that these governments are still reacting to what they perceive as ongoing threats?

If any virus related measures go on once sufficient numbers are vaccinated
it will need to be for demonstrable reasons,
and if those reasons exist then what's the problem?

Well what they say exists and what actually exists are two different things. They said there were WMD’s in Iraq as an excuse to invade Iraq to take natural resources and boost poll numbers of certain politicians. Hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of a lie. There was loads of compliant journalists, experts and scientist who were compliant in this outright lie for one reason or another.

They could just say there are new variants so we need to lockdown again. I forgot to mention above that another reason for extending lockdowns is how well corporate elements have done out of the pandemic, certain entities and individuals have made a lot of money out of lockdowns whereas small businesses have been crushed and I think it’s no stretch to say that massive conglomerates have a lot of control over politicians and government policy.

Pinch Flat · 09-05-2021 10:37am

I'm heading over now to train our under 15 hurling team. We're arranging competitive matches for over the summer.

King Mob · 09-05-2021 10:40am

Parachutes wrote: »

Well what they say exists and what actually exists are two different things. They said there were WMD’s in Iraq as an excuse to invade Iraq to take natural resources and boost poll numbers of certain politicians. Hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of a lie. There was loads of compliant journalists, experts and scientist who were compliant in this outright lie for one reason or another.

Ah cool. We're back to the claims that covid doesn't exist again?

Parachutes · 09-05-2021 10:44am

King Mob wrote: »

Ah cool. We're back to the claims that covid doesn't exist again?

I never said that. You are straw manning me.

PintOfView · 09-05-2021 10:45am

Parachutes wrote: »

Well what they say exists and what actually exists are two different things. They said there were WMD’s in Iraq as an excuse to invade Iraq to take natural resources and boost poll numbers of certain politicians. Hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of a lie. There was loads of compliant journalists, experts and scientist who were compliant in this outright lie for one reason or another.

They could just say there are new variants so we need to lockdown again. I forgot to mention above that another reason for extending lockdowns is how well corporate elements have done out of the pandemic, certain entities and individuals have made a lot of money out of lockdowns whereas small businesses have been crushed and I think it’s no stretch to say that massive conglomerates have a lot of control over politicians and government policy.

On WMD and Irag, agree.

However in the current climate there is much more scrutiny, and, ironically,
conspiracy theorists may play a useful part by focusing more eyeballs on the subject.

If there was a new variant, that was a genuine threat, how would you propose we deal with it?
We've seen that lockdowns do prevent widespread infection with the virus.
And yes, they do have economic consequences, and are very difficult for some people.
However is the alternative worse? (look at India and Brazil, for eg)

King Mob · 09-05-2021 10:46am

Parachutes wrote: »

I never said that. You are straw manning me.

So then what do you mean by:

Well what they say exists and what actually exists are two different things.

Covid exists.
Covid has killed over 3.2 million people. (Nearly 3.3 million people.)

What are you suggesting that the government says exists but in reality doesn't exist?

Parachutes · 09-05-2021 10:51am

King Mob wrote: »

So then what do you mean by:

Covid exists.
Covid has killed over 3.2 million people.

What are you suggesting that the government says exists but in reality doesn't exist?

The extremity of how bad new variants actually are. Not the disease itself. Obviously, people have died of Covid and it’s real I’m not saying that at all. Although the exact number of how many died may be up for the debate, and the way they record covid deaths is suspect, but that’s a completely other discussion.

Yellow_Fern · 09-05-2021 10:58am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Countless times they have been shown evidence that restrictions are lifted, yet they are convinced they are permanent. There is lots of evidence that is the total opposite of what they claim, so they should have sources to back up what they say. Global plans for restrictions would require millions of people to implement, and there is no one who has said anything publicly? Not strange, eh?

There are many levels to the lockdown. Personally I think one example will be a greater push for a NHS health system even though it is a terrible model. One outcome that I welcome is better monitoring of health at border controls.

King Mob · 09-05-2021 11:21am

Parachutes wrote: »

The extremity of how bad new variants actually are. Not the disease itself.

Cool. Any evidence of this happening?
Any speculation how they would achieve this?

If not, I fear this claim is just complete fantasy I'm afraid.

Parachutes wrote: »

Obviously, people have died of Covid and it’s real I’m not saying that at all. Although the exact number of how many died may be up for the debate, and the way they record covid deaths is suspect, but that’s a completely other discussion.

No, sorry, this is a conspiracy theory cop out.

The numbers are not "up for debate".

There are many methods being used to calculate the numbers from a wide range of organisations from around the world.
If you believe that they are faking these numbers, provide evidence.

So your argument is not that covid doesn't exist, but all governments around the world are all working together to exaggerate the effects of it.

Parachutes · 09-05-2021 11:31am

King Mob wrote: »

Cool. Any evidence of this happening?
Any speculation how they would achieve this?

If not, I fear this claim is just complete fantasy I'm afraid.

No, sorry, this is a conspiracy theory cop out.

The numbers are not "up for debate".

There are many methods being used to calculate the numbers from a wide range of organisations from around the world.
If you believe that they are faking these numbers, provide evidence.

So your argument is not that covid doesn't exist, but all governments around the world are all working together to exaggerate the effects of it.

They are up for debate though, like most things and plenty of people have questioned how they track deaths. People dying ‘with’ covid instead of it, people dying of co morbidities and even Leo Varadkar admitting that Ireland counted “suspected” cases of covid deaths when they didn’t even have a positive test to back it up.

I don’t really see the point in this forum to be honest, I don’t even think what I’m discussing could even be called a conspiracy, just a critical view of the prevailing narrative. You can’t discuss things conspiracies in here without being labelled a tin foil hat nutter. Those who believe that everything the government and media say is true and infallible are just as nuts as the conspiracy theorists in my view, two sides of the same coin.

Fighting Tao · 09-05-2021 11:32am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

There are many levels to the lockdown. Personally I think one example will be a greater push for a NHS health system even though it is a terrible model. One outcome that I welcome is better monitoring of health at border controls.

Pushing for a NHS system is not a restriction.

Yesterday restrictions were lifted for people travelling from a number of countries. So no permanent restriction there.

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-05-2021 11:36am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Pushing for a NHS system is not a restriction.

Yesterday restrictions were lifted for people travelling from a number of countries. So permanent restriction there.

Booked flights to Gibralter for September:D

Fighting Tao · 09-05-2021 11:39am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Booked flights to Gibralter for September:D

I feel sorry for you. Been there, done that.

Timberrrrrrrr · 09-05-2021 11:41am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I feel sorry for you. Been there, done that.

She's from,there so she wants to go see her family, I don't mind it there as long as its not too hot.

Dohnjoe · 09-05-2021 11:51am

Parachutes wrote: »

They are up for debate though, like most things and plenty of people have questioned how they track deaths. People dying ‘with’ covid instead of it, people dying of co morbidities and even Leo Varadkar admitting that Ireland counted “suspected” cases of covid deaths when they didn’t even have a positive test to back it up.

I don’t really see the point in this forum to be honest, I don’t even think what I’m discussing could even be called a conspiracy, just a critical view of the prevailing narrative. You can’t discuss things conspiracies in here without being labelled a tin foil hat nutter. Those who believe that everything the government and media say is true and infallible are just as nuts as the conspiracy theorists in my view, two sides of the same coin.

You aren't being labelled a "tin foil hat nutter" and I've never, in my life, met anyone who believes everything politicians say.

Many posters have attempted to round down the numbers of deaths from Covid in order to push a narrative that the pandemic is being "exaggerated" and so far they have failed to provide credible alternative figures. It's all a part of wider Covid denial, attacking the facts and science under the guise of "I'm just asking questions"

King Mob · 09-05-2021 11:52am

Parachutes wrote: »

They are up for debate though, like most things and plenty of people have questioned how they track deaths.

Sure. Conspiracy theorists "debate" lots of facts.
Plenty of people have "questioned" the moon landings.

Just because a lot of people don't accept reality it doesn't mean reality is under debate.

Parachutes wrote: »

People dying ‘with’ covid instead of it, people dying of co morbidities and even Leo Varadkar admitting that Ireland counted “suspected” cases of covid deaths when they didn’t even have a positive test to back it up.

Complete myth, debunked here many times.

Parachutes wrote: »

I don’t really see the point in this forum to be honest, I don’t even think what I’m discussing could even be called a conspiracy, just a critical view of the prevailing narrative.

But you're suggesting that there is(or could be) a global plot to fake the danger of covid to allow covid restrictions to continue permanently to allow them to control people for reasons unknown.

That's a conspiracy theory I'm afraid.

Parachutes wrote: »

You can’t discuss things conspiracies in here without being labelled a tin foil hat nutter. Those who believe that everything the government and media say is true and infallible are just as nuts as the conspiracy theorists in my view, two sides of the same coin.

Who has called you a "tin foil hat nutter."
Who here has said they "believe that everything the government and media say is true and infallible."

You understand what a strawman argument is, yet here you are using one...?

Parachutes · 09-05-2021 12:07pm

King Mob wrote: »

Sure. Conspiracy theorists "debate" lots of facts.
Plenty of people have "questioned" the moon landings.

Just because a lot of people don't accept reality it doesn't mean reality is under debate.

Complete myth, debunked here many times.

But you're suggesting that there is(or could be) a global plot to fake the danger of covid to allow covid restrictions to continue permanently to allow them to control people for reasons unknown.

That's a conspiracy theory I'm afraid.

Who has called you a "tin foil hat nutter."
Who here has said they "believe that everything the government and media say is true and infallible."

You understand what a strawman argument is, yet here you are using one...?

Who’s talking about the moon landings being faked?

I don’t think we are getting anywhere I’m afraid, “reasons unknown” I’ve given plenty of speculation why restrictions may continue see posts above. Unfortunately that’s all you can ever do regarding these situations. If I was here in 1964 I would be speculating that the gulf of Tonkin wasn’t all that met the eye, but that’s all it would be, speculation, as is the nature of such things and you know that.

On the way Covid stats are compiled, it’s no myth. It’s out in the open for everyone to see how they compile the deaths.... nothing I said was untrue.

King Mob · 09-05-2021 12:14pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Who’s talking about the moon landings being faked?

No one. I'm using that as an example of why you logic is wrong.
Just because some people doubt something is true, it doesn't mean that it's not.
Does the fact there's people who debate whether or not the moon landing was real mean that fact is up for debate?
Obviously not.
So why do you make the same argument for the people who believe the conspiracy theories about covid?

Parachutes wrote: »

I don’t think we are getting anywhere I’m afraid, “reasons unknown” I’ve given plenty of speculation why restrictions may continue see posts above.

No, you made vague shallow statements that didn't make any sense, and when I asked you to elaborate or explain some contradictions, you ignored the post.

Parachutes wrote: »

On the way Covid stats are compiled, it’s no myth. It’s out in the open for everyone to see how they compile the deaths.... nothing I said was untrue.

No, sorry, it's a myth.
You are conflating and misrepresenting several things to reach a conclusion that isn't true.
Or more likely, you are just parroting something you read online without actually looking into it.
The same claim has been made several times here, each time it's addressed and the claimant usually runs away and starts ignoring things.

Also could you address the last part of my post.:

Who has called you a "tin foil hat nutter."
Who here has said they "believe that everything the government and media say is true and infallible."

astrofool · 10-05-2021 10:14am

So with everything reopening over the next few weeks, can the thread title be updated to "No Covid-19 measure are permanent" yet?

Parachutes · 10-05-2021 12:55pm

astrofool wrote: »

So with everything reopening over the next few weeks, can the thread title be updated to "No Covid-19 measure are permanent" yet?

Short memory. They reopened last summer as well only to go back into level 5 lockdown.

Dohnjoe · 10-05-2021 1:03pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Short memory. They reopened last summer as well only to go back into level 5 lockdown.

Because cases started increasing again.

What's different this time is that we have vaccinations, and as more and more people get immunized against the virus it means it's far more likely that we won't need further lockdowns.

Trigger · 10-05-2021 1:03pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Short memory. They reopened last summer as well only to go back into level 5 lockdown.

Would that not indicate then that measures are indeed not permanent but sporadic?

Parachutes · 10-05-2021 1:09pm

Trigger wrote: »

Would that not indicate then that measures are indeed not permanent but sporadic?

Well last summer we weren’t living restriction free either, they were just eased.

robinph · 10-05-2021 1:11pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Well last summer we weren’t living restriction free either, they were just eased.

So not permanent then.

Parachutes · 10-05-2021 1:13pm

robinph wrote: »

So not permanent then.

We’ve been permanently under 1 restriction or another since March 2020, yes. Future is yet to be seen.

Trigger · 10-05-2021 1:16pm

Parachutes wrote: »

We’ve been permanently under 1 restriction or another since March 2020, yes. Future is yet to be seen.

I agree, the future has yet to be seen, but the only measures that have been continuous since they were brought in have been masks and social distancing.

All measures have not been a permanent fixture since the pandemic started, they have been sporadic, and with the introduction of vaccines we will see less and less restrictions in place as we move forward

robinph · 10-05-2021 1:16pm

Parachutes wrote: »

We’ve been permanently under 1 restriction or another since March 2020, yes. Future is yet to be seen.

So some restrictions have been around for a year, whilst in the misdt of a pandemic, and other restrictions have come and gone, and the restrictions that been in place since March 2020 are expected to be lifted gradually over the coming months.

So not permanent then.

All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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