Dublin - BusConnects

LXFlyer wrote: »

There is no official network map available online or elsewhere, except the map on the BusConnects site which Jarrett Walker's team had to prepare themselves. That is shocking to be honest. Having network maps available and having information at the stops such as local maps and buses from the stops is basic stuff, yet it's been like that since 2010.

Regarding BusConnects, to be fair the NTA have outlined exactly where the money has been spent. Redesigning the network is not a simple or cheap task, nor is the design and preparation of the significant engineering work required for the corridors.

Dublin Bus repaint vehicles every four years, not every two as you suggest, which I think is reasonable, and the repainting that is taking place right now is in line with that. It's the 2013 and 2017 vehicles.

More often then 4

LXFlyer wrote: »

It used to be every three years but is now every four.

It is important for vehicles to be well presented - first impressions do make a difference.

Something which Dublin Bus actually seem to care about, unlike Bus Eireann!

Sam Russell wrote: »

Now they just need to clean up the fare system. I would ike to see just two fares - a single journey of say €1 to €2. The second fare would be a 90 min fare used for multiple journeys between DB, Luas and Dart costing €3 or so - with no cash alternative.

If the leap card was the ticket system, it would reduce the need for ticket inspectors as validation would be required for all.

But it would, the amount using child cards and they are grown adults...
Many using others free travel cards or expired ones or blocked.

The validator should be like in London, at the drivers screen so everyone has to actually scan beside the driver.

bk wrote: »

That sounds like a great idea and could be combined with punisher5112's idea of the validator next to the driver.

Unfortunately it sounds that instead we will get a more complicated system of two fares, a short fare from the driver or a 90 minute fare from the right hand validator.



I agree, but that would only work with Sam's suggestion above. You'd only need one validator. With the system that they seem to be currently heading for, you need two validators, one for the short fare, the other for the 90 minute fare.

I suppose you could put two validators next to the driver, but that would be a bit weird and complicated.

Only way would be have tap at money drop part and the other where they still place card on drivers machine, colour the 2 different.

That sounds even more complicated.

I don't see the problem with two fares as proposed - I imagine majority will use 90 minute ticket, and people who do a few stops will know to use a driver side validator.

Sure, it's difficult to enforce but so it the current system. Nothing stops me saying "2.25" to driver and going all the way to Tallaght.

Just to note, there’s already different sounds for adult and child leap cards. It’s a beeeeeeep and bee bee beeeep situation.

There would be less fare evasion if the fares were lowered. We have some of the world's most expensive public transport and ironically it seems to be more expensive outside of Dublin. Only Scandinavia and switzerland seems to have more expensive tickets and these are very high waged economies.

Pre pandemic DART and Dublin Bus were nominally profit making transport providers, something that doesn't really exist elsewhere. The cost of PT needs to be more heavily subsidised.

That being said the artificially high fares here act as a capacity management tool. If it were cheap the existing crush loading seen on pt here would be worse.

Deleted User wrote: »

Is their a public list somewhere of planned rollout order & dates?

Just the results of FOI requests reported on twitter.

In summary next year is focussing on the orbitals - the S orbitals are due later next year if the original schedule is followed.

In 2021:
H Spine & associated radial route
C Spine & associated radial/local routes

In 2022:
N4/N6 Orbitals
G Spine & associated radial/local routes; O, N2, W2/W4/W6 Orbitals
S2/S4/S6 Orbitals (and probably L25 too)

In 2023:
F Spine & associated radial/local routes
E Spine & associated radial/local routes
D Spine & associated radial/local routes

In 2024:
A Spine & associated radial/local routes
B Spine & associated radial/local routes
Ranelagh radial routes

CatInABox wrote: »

They've taken down a load of bus stops along the Howth Rd, should be seeing the new poles going in over the next few days. I assume it's the infrastructure works for the H spine. Looking forward to seeing them.

Sorry for asking, as this question has probably been answered already.

Does BusConnects mean a change in the number / location / spacing of bus stops along a route?

AFAIK, Dublin has too many bus stops.

Does BusConnects mean that every bus stop will have a unique name, and that the name will be displayed at the bus stop?

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that true for the A1? Given the existing frequency/24 hour nature of the 15, it's not actually going to involve many more buses or much scheduling changes surely? And similar for the 16!

I had actually thought that this would have made the A routes one of the first to be rolled out.

The whole process involves a completely different approach to scheduling for Dublin Bus.

It involves fixed stop-by-stop schedules along the entire route rather than the current process whereby officially the only schedules are the departure times and driver handover points.

The timings that deliver the RTPI times currently are regularly changed by Dublin Bus in the background to reflect the changing traffic conditions so that buses keep moving.

Now they will operate like GAI, with every stop having a fixed time, and buses may wait at certain stops if they are early. That's a massive change in the process and will require significantly more detailed work than current processes. Scheduling is a very specialised task.

It also involves coming up with integrated schedules between the routes for every stop along the core element of each spine so that there is an even headway along the section where all of the spine routes operate.

Therefore, none of the spines are not going to be straightforward as that has to be married up with driver rosters and breaks, and make sure that the latter are in compliance with the EU Working Time directive.

The H Spine is the simplest to start with - it involves the least amount of change in terms of routes, isn't cross-city and allows DB to get a handle on the new processes with the routes all being along the Howth Road.

After that the C & G spines are probably the next easiest as they generally involve one corridor (Lucan and Ballyfermot) with Sandymount added into the C Spine, but also involve quite a few local routes too.

Implementing the orbital network is probably far more important at that point than additional spines, as they are the missing part of the network which will offer far more journeys around the city than currently available.

Beyond that, all the other spines are north/south ones through the city centre and each will impact on two corridors (one north of the river, one south), which means if they get it wrong, the impact is much greater. I don't think that any one of spines A, B, D, E or F are easier than any other if I'm honest.

The A Spine is not just the A1 though - there's the A2, A3, A4, A9 too, and then also associated various radial, peak and local routes on both sides of the city. As indeed are all the other ones.