Tesla Talk

Marlow · 22-03-2021 1:58pm

KCross wrote: »

All I can say is, spoken like a true fan!

Spoken like a true critic.

I've just made sure, that I know, what's in the package, what it can do now and if it's worth it. Plus what it might cost me later.

Not sure, if I would be paying for it. Also, it will be available as a service on a monthly charge, so one can always go down that route.

/M

AndyBoBandy · 22-03-2021 1:58pm

KCross wrote: »

Also, what are these other features that justify the €7.5k? Summon and parking and the like?

Summon & Auto Park are a part of Enhanced Auto Pilot, which is available today for €3,800

EAP also has navigate on autopilot & auto lane change (having tried it in a Model S a few weeks ago, it's actually quite good).

FSD (which adds Traffic light/stop sign control and (coming soon) Autosteer on city streets) is the one for €7,500

AndyBoBandy · 22-03-2021 2:01pm

Marlow wrote: »

Also, it will be available as a service on a monthly charge, so one can always go down that route.

FSD Subscription is coming, and for those of us who didn't get the purchased version, it would be a very viable option to subscribe to it for a month for that 2-3 week road trip across Europe... (when/if that ever becomes a thing again...)

I'll certainly give it a go for a month for a hundred euros or whatever it'll cost..

cnocbui · 22-03-2021 2:09pm

That wonderful Tesla autopilot recently took out another police car in the US a few days ago. At this rate, emergency workers are going to get severely injured or killed at some point. At least it doesn't seem to disciminate between fire services, ambulances or police vehicles, so it can't be accused of bias.

Marlow · 22-03-2021 3:17pm

cnocbui wrote: »

That wonderful Tesla autopilot recently took out another police car in the US a few days ago.

And the lad driving it had a suspended license, obviously didn't pay attention as he's supposed to and didn't move over to accommodate the copper. Hardly the fault of the system, when it's not being used as intended. Plus it's unlikely, that was FSD beta.

/M

riclad · 22-03-2021 3:50pm

the previous video shows that the fsd beta is not safe for the public .
The only reason he did not have an accident many times is he took control
and switched off the fsd many times .
it stopped behind a parked car. it stopped in the middle of the road, it simply is not safe to use in crowded city area,s where there is heavy traffic
and junctions where there may be cars coming from different directions
at the same time.
under fsd the car came very close to other cars on the other side of a road.
theres no way ordinary drivers would drive like the tesla car does under
fsd mode in the video

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/25/tesla-driver-autopilot-crash

it might be safe to use fsd on motorways maybe but its clear that
a car in fsd mode needs the driver to pay constant attention to
what the car is doing and be ready to take control in seconds if something goes wrong.
when you are driving you can harm yourself or put other drivers in danger.
Even a self driving mode that works fine 95 per cent of the time is not good enough to be allowed on public roads .

i,d prefer the to drive a car maybe using cruise control on a motorway
with the option where the car slows down automatically if the car in front is a certain distance away than use any form of fsd software .
https://www.herrmanandherrman.com/blog/tesla-autopilot-deaths-in-2020/

i think it would be better to switch off fsd until further safety tests
are carried out,
and admit there are really no self driving cars on the road that preform
to the standard of an average driver.
i understand many companys are testing self driving cars in many parts of america in area,s where there are low levels of traffic as they develop the software .
A system that needs the driver to take over every 3 minutes as in the video is useless and dangerous as some people will think
its safe to use and txt or make a phone call while in self driving mode.
i think we are maybe 3-5 years away from having cars that can drive safely in self driving mode in a busy city or urban area.
small delivery vans might be safe in certain area,s where they have all
the roads and junctions mapped out ,but its a complex problem as they have to take into account random events, like roadworks and
cars or trucks stopped at the side of the road .
I think theres good reasons why no other car company has released a self driving mode like tesla .
The software is not at the level where it is safe for ordinary drivers to use.

AndyBoBandy · 22-03-2021 4:10pm

^^ but this is the whole point of releasing the ‘beta’ version to a select number of Tesla owners......

Tesla are monitoring every interaction every single one of these cars has, from how it performs in real world conditions, to how many times the driver needs to take back control to avert an incident etc......

The best testing is real world testing, and that’s exact what we are seeing......

When folks get the beta version to test, it comes with a huge disclaimer that they must absolutely be ready to take control should the car try and do something silly... and that’s exactly what we are seeing in all these ‘FSD is rubbish’ videos.......

Yes it’s currently rubbish
But yes, it’s still in beta mode

Don’t think Tesla aren’t capturing millions and millions of pieces of data from every camera/sensor in these FSD cars to use to improve it, as to to so, would be foolish... especially with a product that’s still only in the beta testing phase!!!

It might still be a few years before it gets there, if it ever does.... but they need to start somewhere...

When this eventually starts rolling out in other regions, the system might need a year of local ‘learning’ from the local Tesla fleet before it is able to function...... (though have no doubt that it’s already learning local situations, just by simply being driven around by owners)

22-03-2021 4:30pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

^^ but this is the whole point of releasing the ‘beta’ version to a select number of Tesla owners......

Tesla are monitoring every interaction every single one of these cars has, from how it performs in real world conditions, to how many times the driver needs to take back control to avert an incident etc......

The best testing is real world testing, and that’s exact what we are seeing......

When folks get the beta version to test, it comes with a huge disclaimer that they must absolutely be ready to take control should the car try and do something silly... and that’s exactly what we are seeing in all these ‘FSD is rubbish’ videos.......

Yes it’s currently rubbish
But yes, it’s still in beta mode

Don’t think Tesla aren’t capturing millions and millions of pieces of data from every camera/sensor in these FSD cars to use to improve it, as to to so, would be foolish... especially with a product that’s still only in the beta testing phase!!!

It might still be a few years before it gets there, if it ever does.... but they need to start somewhere...

When this eventually starts rolling out in other regions, the system might need a year of local ‘learning’ from the local Tesla fleet before it is able to function...... (though have no doubt that it’s already learning local situations, just by simply being driven around by owners)

You don't do beta test in public.
You don't rely on people with no QA experience to do beta testing.
Release Candidates perhaps can be shared with competent people outside your organisation.

This is the ultimate implementation of DevOps philosophy which produces sh1t untested software with no underlying integrity that could go BOOM at any moment when the stars align.

...and Tesla still doesn't have enough sensors of the right types on their cars to accurately perceive the environment in which they are travelling.
Their cars certainly don't have depth of perception in any meaningful sense of the word.

BobbyBingo · 22-03-2021 5:57pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

EAP also has navigate on autopilot & auto lane change (having tried it in a Model S a few weeks ago, it's actually quite good).

I have EAP on my S. My thoughts:

Navigate on Autopilot: it does work but as we don't have a nested motorway network in Ireland with loads of spaghetti like junctions - it's not all that useful. You'll use it to try it, but that's about it.. On the M50 for example, it'll signal at my turn off, then it'll make the turn and swiftly stop Navigate on Autopilot because I'm going on to a 'normal' road. The only place I could see it useful is perhaps turning off the Limerick road (M7?), heading south, for Cork - and even then you'd only use it in case you forget to turn off (which I have done on more than one occasion).

Autopark: used once when I got the car new in 2018.

Auto Lane Change: doesn't really work in Ireland anymore (or certainly doesnt on my car). It used to be a case that if you came up behind a car, it'd move out and pass it without intervention - now it tells you to move out, at which point you say "grand - do it" by flicking the indicator and giving the wheel a bit of a nudge to tell it you are still in fact, alive.

Summon: really cool a) when it works and b) to scare the bejaysus :eek: out of the poor dog when you leave him in the car. Other than that, I've used it once in three years properly to gain access to the car when a numpty parked almost on top of me in Jurys in the IFSC. If I had a tight garage, I would use it

Have ordered a new S and although there isnt a EAP box to tick right now, I wouldnt have ticked it even if it was there - just not enough use of it to be honest, for the money - for me anyhow..

B

BobbyBingo · 22-03-2021 6:01pm

BobbyBingo wrote: »

... to scare the bejaysus :eek: out of the poor dog when you leave him in the car.
B

This chap did it to his grandmother.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjSf_HpEQHA

cnocbui · 22-03-2021 6:55pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

^^ but this is the whole point of releasing the ‘beta’ version to a select number of Tesla owners......

Tesla are monitoring every interaction every single one of these cars has, from how it performs in real world conditions, to how many times the driver needs to take back control to avert an incident etc......

The best testing is real world testing, and that’s exact what we are seeing......

When folks get the beta version to test, it comes with a huge disclaimer that they must absolutely be ready to take control should the car try and do something silly... and that’s exactly what we are seeing in all these ‘FSD is rubbish’ videos.......

Yes it’s currently rubbish
But yes, it’s still in beta mode

Don’t think Tesla aren’t capturing millions and millions of pieces of data from every camera/sensor in these FSD cars to use to improve it, as to to so, would be foolish... especially with a product that’s still only in the beta testing phase!!!

It might still be a few years before it gets there, if it ever does.... but they need to start somewhere...

When this eventually starts rolling out in other regions, the system might need a year of local ‘learning’ from the local Tesla fleet before it is able to function...... (though have no doubt that it’s already learning local situations, just by simply being driven around by owners)

A good thing Tesla don't do Covid vaccines then, isn't it.

Orebro · 22-03-2021 10:39pm

KCross wrote: »

I know its still beta but FSD has a LONG way to go and Tesla have the cheek to charge thousands for it right now!

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35878363/teslas-full-self-driving-beta-is-just-laughably-bad-and-potentially-dangerous/

Thats on a nice sunny day in a city with decent road markings. Imagine a tight European street in bad weather and terrible markings or the Ring of Kerry or any of our N or L roads.... dont hold your breath for FSD in this country any time soon.

That’s shockingly dangerous - I wouldn’t want to be sharing the road with that! How are they allowed to test this rubbish in public like that?

riclad · 22-03-2021 11:32pm

i dont think it should be used in citys or towns,
maybe they could limit it to rural area,s or motorways using gps.
As its putting other road users in danger.its simply not safe to use in citys with high levels of traffic ,it seems to find it hard to know what to do when it see,s cars parked in some places and how to safely drive around them
without putting other road users in danger.
a human driver would know how to slow down and let cars coming from the opposite direction pass by before trying to drive around a car or some other obstacle like road works

Kramer · 23-03-2021 12:00am

Orebro wrote: »

That’s shockingly dangerous - I wouldn’t want to be sharing the road with that! How are they allowed to test this rubbish in public like that?

You probably all ready are - I think Elon promised a million fully autonomous robo-taxis by last year. There could possibly be more by now.

Yep, confirmed:

https://www.engadget.com/ - 1 million robo-taxis in 2020.

They're probably so good, we just haven't noticed them

.

Orebro · 23-03-2021 5:37pm

Kramer wrote: »

You probably all ready are - I think Elon promised a million fully autonomous robo-taxis by last year. There could possibly be more by now.

Yep, confirmed:

https://www.engadget.com/ - 1 million robo-taxis in 2020.

They're probably so good, we just haven't noticed them .

Can't be much worse than some taxi drivers I've encountered I guess.

unkel · 24-03-2021 10:40am

To whom it may concern: you can now buy a Tesla with Bitcoin. More interestingly, Tesla will HODL the Bitcoin and stick it on their balance sheet. Not exchange it for USD.

Linky

fricatus · 24-03-2021 2:13pm

unkel wrote: »

To whom it may concern: you can now buy a Tesla with Bitcoin. More interestingly, Tesla will HODL the Bitcoin and stick it on their balance sheet. Not exchange it for USD.

Linky

Very clever from Elon. That whole international drug-dealer market is not currently targeted by other carmakers. :pac:

cnocbui · 24-03-2021 2:17pm

fricatus wrote: »

Very clever from Elon. That whole international drug-dealer market is not currently targeted by other carmakers. :pac:

99.999% of drug dealing goes on using fiat currency - but bitcoin.

24-03-2021 2:22pm

cnocbui wrote: »

99.999% of drug dealing goes on using fiat currency - but bitcoin.

correct, it is the nuisance call fraudsters that transport their wealth back to their countries of origin with Bitcoin. Drug dealers couldn't live with the high transaction costs of Bitcoin.
Still he had to do something to entice the criminals out of their G-wagens.
replacing chrome with satin black on window trims can only take you so far.

cnocbui · 24-03-2021 3:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

correct, it is the nuisance call fraudsters that transport their wealth back to their countries of origin with Bitcoin. Drug dealers couldn't live with the high transaction costs of Bitcoin.
Still he had to do something to entice the criminals out of their G-wagens.
replacing chrome with satin black on window trims can only take you so far.

He's not enticing me to part with any of mine. Can I interest you in some gear?

AndyBoBandy · 01-04-2021 3:00pm

330 Tesla's registered in Ireland in Q1 this year....

325 Model 3's
4 Model S's
1 Model X

Marlow · 02-04-2021 5:16pm

Q1 figures are out.

184800 vehicles delivered. Looks like Tesla has ramped up more than anyone expected.

/M

slave1 · 02-04-2021 10:55pm

China kicking in

Gumbo · 02-04-2021 11:38pm

Not strictly a Tesla, but parts of a Tesla.
This is really cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b3o_IGAYlU

unkel · 03-04-2021 12:34am

We have a thread about that Gumbo. That series is called "Vintage Voltage", do a search on it here. Well worth the watch, they do a class job converting classic cars to electric. Eye-wateringly expensive though

Kramer · 05-05-2021 3:45pm

I'm not sure if the adapter is the same for the S/X & 3, so I'll throw this out there, generally.
Anyone have one, particularly one they're not using & won't be for a while? I've been trying to get hold of one from Sandyford, to no avail

.

Over 100 minutes on hold today - it's very poor form. It's not like I can pop in - I'm over 200kms from Sandyford & just wanted to know if I could order the cable over the phone for delivery by Friday, or if I ordered online, if it was coming from elsewhere - the UK or Europe etc.

Anyway, if anyone has one & is in reachable from Clare/Tipperary/Limerick/North Cork & could spare it - that'd be great & warrant a pint, post lockdown

.

Kramer · 05-05-2021 3:49pm

It looks like this.

bambam · 05-05-2021 4:37pm

try one of these for £6.47 if you are stuck, delivery is quick these days

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003IJAKLE/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

71TdEesn4cL._AC_SX679_.jpg

slave1 · 05-05-2021 5:33pm

No, he wants it for attaching to the end of a UMC so it's proprietary connection.
I thought this was standard supply with a new Tesla Kramer?

bambam · 05-05-2021 6:01pm

yeah, I was thinking you connect the normal tesla 3pin adapter to the tesla UMC,

then attach that to the amazon blue adapter and plug the blue adapter into what you need to

slave1 wrote: »

No, he wants it for attaching to the end of a UMC so it's proprietary connection.
I thought this was standard supply with a new Tesla Kramer?

Gumbo · 05-05-2021 6:33pm

I have the 32a adaptor on my UMC. It’s my sole means of charging.

Kramer · 05-05-2021 7:03pm

bambam wrote: »

try one of these for £6.47 if you are stuck, delivery is quick these days

I have that already. Unfortuntely, it's the proprietary Tesla cable I need.
The UK/3 pin plug limits charge to 10a/2.3kW, whereas the blue adapter allows 16a/3.7kW.
I've never used any "granny" connector (I've always used type 2) - just in this instance, I need the 3.7kW.

slave1 wrote: »

No, he wants it for attaching to the end of a UMC so it's proprietary connection.
I thought this was standard supply with a new Tesla Kramer?

Tesla went on a penny saving exercise in 2019 & removed that connector, auto dimming wing mirrors, the frunk bolt covers & lots of other stuff.
It's disappointing I've been unable to contact them, in any meaningful way, today. I spoke to someone in sales (in the UK, presumably) - after ringing the Sandyford number again & selecting "sales". He was lovely, said he'd try to get someone in Sandyford to get back to me - nothing.

I had also emailed - no response.

It's very, very poor form & leaves me stuck now. I even considered driving up to collect one first thing in the morning - it really is important I get one urgently, all I needed was confirmation they would have one there.

Anyway, things happen..........not the end of the world.
But if anyone has one nearby - give me a shout - Limerick/Tipperary etc.

slave1 · 05-05-2021 10:06pm

The Sandyford centre is undergoing a refurb, possible reason you couldn’t get them?

ELM327 · 06-05-2021 9:06am

Word of warning, there are two different ones. UMC 1.0 and UMC 2.0, they changed in ~2018 and the connector ends are not interchangeable.

zg3409 · 06-05-2021 1:31pm

You might be better asking in the Tesla Ireland Facebook group.

TheWonderLlama · 24-05-2021 4:29pm

looks like Tesla have been naughty with their range and charging. Disclaimer: I saw this on zerohedge so treat with caution.

Tesla has been found guilty of throttling charging speed and battery capacity by a court in Norway.

The company is going to "have to pay $16,000 to each of the thousands of owners affected in the country", until it appeals, according to the pro-Tesla lot over at electrek.

Dating back to 2019, electrek had pointed out reports that Tesla owners were seeing drops in range of 12 to 30 miles after a software update. The affected vehicles appear to only be Model S and Model X vehicles with 85 kWh battery packs.

Tesla owner David Rasmussen told the blog at the time: “My 2014 Model S 85 was getting Rated Range of 247 miles until May 13. Now after the next update, it continued to drop to now 217 miles. This is an 11% drop in 5 weeks.”

He even plotted the battery capacity of his Model S, showing the obvious dropoff in capacity around the time of the update.

Around the same time, the DC fast-charging rate at Supercharger stations had also been reduced, the blog notes, stating: "Affected owners are seeing much slower charging sessions."

Tesla, meanwhile, claimed that the update would “protect the battery and improve battery longevity”. The company claimed that range loss only happened for “a small percentage of owners.”

The controversy led to a "series of lawsuits", one of which was in Norway. When Tesla didn't respond to the lawsuit, the 30 owners "were automatically awarded 136,000 kroner (~$16,000 USD) each in compensation" unless Tesla appeals.

But the real devil could be in the forthcoming details: there could be over 10,000 other Tesla owners affected by the update in Norway alone, not to mention owners involved in similar lawsuits in other countries.

The affected update was Tesla’s 2019.16.1 and .2 update.

slave1 · 24-05-2021 4:55pm

If this goes global their only way out is to roll back the range drop (what they did was restrict the available battery capacity to create a larger buffer) and SC speeds and then take the risk that more 85 pack batteries will fail under warranty.
Sad thing is these batteries will be replaced like with like i.e. a reconditioned battery pack of same era
The proper solution is to replace with the 350v 14/16 100kWh packs (two modules left out), these eliminate the nerfed range and charging but are like hen's teeth and pot luck whether they are available

Gumbo · 24-05-2021 4:58pm

slave1 wrote: »

If this goes global their only way out is to roll back the range drop (what they did was restrict the available battery capacity to create a larger buffer) and SC speeds and then take the risk that more 85 pack batteries will fail under warranty.
Sad thing is these batteries will be replaced like with like i.e. a reconditioned battery pack of same era
The proper solution is to replace with the 350v 14/16 100kWh packs (two modules left out), these eliminate the nerfed range and charging but are like hen's teeth and pot luck whether they are available

That’s it. The week mine was in for HV replacement a guy in the uk for the newer 350v battery but I got a reman 400b.

Just luck if the draw!

unkel · 24-05-2021 5:11pm

I'll take that $16k please, thank you

slave1 · 24-05-2021 6:17pm

unkel wrote: »

I'll take that $16k please, thank you

You got yours after the update, same with me, so no impact on us

slave1 · 29-06-2021 10:11pm

Stopped for a SuC at Ballacolla today, Tesla ranger there and doing bits n bobs on a few customer cars, said hello and he topped up my windscreen washer and washed my windscreen as a nice friendly gesture, nice touch...

innrain · 29-06-2021 11:57pm

slave1 wrote: »

Stopped for a SuC at Ballacolla today, Tesla ranger there and doing bits n bobs on a few customer cars, said hello and he topped up my windscreen washer and washed my windscreen as a nice friendly gesture, nice touch...

The same experience. Funny bit I got "washer fluid low" warning when merging on M8, next think the Tesla ranger asks me if I want to get the fluid topped up. Class

They told me they'll have two "express locations" Cork and Galway for people to drive to and have small jobs done or diagnostics, questions answered. I think they try to alleviate the fear of not having a local dealer nearby.

sk8board · 24-08-2021 11:51pm

The art of deflection marketing is alive and well at Tesla yet again this week, with their Tesla bot.

robotics engineers the world over must be laughing their asses off at Musks assertion that they’ll build a robot for ‘boring, mundane, repetitive’ tasks and then making it in a humanoid form :D

boring task: washing dishes, washing clothes, vacuuming - all of these have robotic solutions and none of them are in human form.

they also gave the example of it doing groceries, but one of robotics great issues is with picking up varying shapes and sizes.

Why not update us all on the massive delays to the model Y, semi truck, cyber truck and roadster and stop deflecting with this crap, which will likely never happen

JohnC. · 25-08-2021 5:53am

Because it was an AI event, so those vehicles production updates aren't relevant to it?

sk8board · 25-08-2021 8:32am

Well he claimed at the event that Tesla was probably the worlds largest producer of robots - the assertion being I assume that driving is a mundane task and a self driving car is a robot that does it for you.

every time people get weary of the Tesla story, a press event is held where something new and magical is announced in order to deflect from whatever is going on behind the scenes.

Deflection marketing 101. He’s been doing it for years!

garo · 25-08-2021 8:38am

Still you have to laugh. He was taking the piss with that guy in a jumpsuit prancing around and the fanbois all lapped it up. I think sk8board's point is that they do these - never gonna happen - AI events in order to distract from the fact(?) that there are no updates on cybertruck.

sk8board · 25-08-2021 9:48am

I mean hey, it’s all just billionaire games right, it doesn’t matter in the broader scheme of things!

in the 5-6 years since the M3 announcement I think his need to answer to shareholders and social media is turning him into a charlatan.

almost everything he says or tweets lacks substance, or eventually gets utterly disproven, and there doesn’t appear to be an Andy Jassy or Satya Nadella in the wings.

ELM327 · 25-08-2021 9:50am

Not even cybertruck- there's no MY in europe, no MS/MX in europe, no MX anywhere, and limited MS rollout.

unkel · 25-08-2021 10:05am

You can order Model Y in Europe. But LHD only (MIC)

sk8board · 25-08-2021 10:11am

a car company with just 1 current model that we can buy and deliver here, and 1.5 models at a push worldwide

Tesla Talk

Comments