Tesla Talk

unkel · 15-03-2021 10:16am

ELM327 wrote: »

Look how crap the ID in car software is. Glitchy. Laggy. Terrible.

Yes it's very poor. But VW are holding their hands up. They will sort this. The CEO Diess recently said that VW is 4 years behind Tesla and can only start closing this gap if they go full force ahead in the direction he wants to go. And he has been given the green light to do so

Can the cars be updated OTA or do they have to go into a dealer for software updates?

slave1 · 15-03-2021 10:20am

From what I read it’s a full day at dealership for software update

ELM327 · 15-03-2021 10:21am

slave1 wrote: »

From what I read it’s a full day at dealership for software update

How 1994.

TitianGerm · 15-03-2021 10:28am

slave1 wrote: »

From what I read it’s a full day at dealership for software update

Once the car has the 2.1 software update it can update OTA.

There's been very few issues reported since cars updated to 2.0. No lag or noticable glitches.

ID3 owners were compensated for having an older software version on the car at launch as well which softened the blow of the early software. All ID4 will be updated to 2.1 before being handed over to customers.

unkel · 15-03-2021 10:43am

Thanks for clarifying that, TitianGerm. Sounds like a lot of progress is being made. Switch to OTA is impressive.

TitianGerm · 15-03-2021 11:19am

unkel wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying that, TitianGerm. Sounds like a lot of progress is being made. Switch to OTA is impressive.

In fairness to VW everything was explained to me up front.

I went down to test drive an ID3 in early October (could have been late September) with a view to ordering a Series model for January. Dealer told me he had a some extra First Edition coming in and he could put my name down on one if I wanted. He explained that the software was still not 100% and because of that VW were offering three incentives

1. Three months free payments.
2. Three years free servicing (including tyres).
3. Free VW Charger and install.

I took the first option and had the car at the end of October.

I add an issue with the speedo in January not displaying the speed so I rang VW and they booked me in two days later to update the car to 2.0. I left the car in at 5pm on a Wednesday and collected it at 4pm the next day. Times suited as I was passing the garage for work at those times and they gave me a loaner for day.

I haven't bothered booking in for 2.1 yet but I'll probably look at April after the initial rush is done.

unkel · 15-03-2021 11:33am

Maybe the wrong thread, but for some reason there was a brand new unregistered VW ID.4 parked in the Tesla car park when I dropped my loaner Model 3 Performance back on Friday

:eek:

It's an awful lot bigger than the ID.3 alright, which is far too small for 5 people. I'd say it will sell really well over here (and probably everywhere else too)

AndyBoBandy · 15-03-2021 11:44am

unkel wrote: »

Maybe the wrong thread, but for some reason there was a brand new unregistered VW ID.4 parked in the Tesla car park when I dropped my loaner Model 3 Performance back on Friday :eek:

It's an awful lot bigger than the ID.3 alright, which is far too small for 5 people. I'd say it will sell really well over here (and probably everywhere else too)

Judging by the 2 (Irish) reviews I've seen, Nobby & Bob Flavin, It looks like a really nice car indeed (granted they had a premium version with all the bells & whistles)...

I think getting it to European market before the Model Y (by at least a year+) will be huge for VW..... same with the Enyaq..

I think whoever is 1st to market in that segment will win it, and VW look to be miles ahead of Tesla in that regard,

Froline Merkel looking after Das Deutche Auto industry....

TheWonderLlama · 15-03-2021 12:51pm

Filed with the SEC last week.
The man's not right in the head.
EwhB_y5XMAAXOqq?format=jpg&name=900x900

ELM327 · 15-03-2021 12:54pm

That is brilliant. Respect.
If you are not a fat nerd neckbeard like myself you will not appreciate the joke.

slave1 · 15-03-2021 1:31pm

TheWonderLlama wrote: »

...
The man's not right in the head....[/IMG]

Thankfully, we need game shapers

ELM327 · 16-03-2021 11:13am

Short Rant time:

Shell recharge app and rfid had been providing me with free ecars charging since the middle of last year. Unfortunately someone at shell must have noticed as they have finally started charging! (if you see all my checkins on plugshare I took advantage of the free charging!)

Looks like I'll have to pay for charging now unless I find another workaround.
List of old workarounds that no longer work: Easygo, Plugsurfing, Chargepoint, Shell Recharge.

unkel · 16-03-2021 11:42am

King Elon I, First of His Name, King of all Technology

Hail to the King!

Gatster · 21-03-2021 9:05pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Judging by the 2 (Irish) reviews I've seen, Nobby & Bob Flavin, It looks like a really nice car indeed (granted they had a premium version with all the bells & whistles)...

I think getting it to European market before the Model Y (by at least a year+) will be huge for VW..... same with the Enyaq..

I think whoever is 1st to market in that segment will win it, and VW look to be miles ahead of Tesla in that regard,

Froline Merkel looking after Das Deutche Auto industry....

I was considering an id4 before an S but to get to a model with the sunroof, it's something like 52k for the 77kwh, which killed it for me

KCross · 22-03-2021 12:59pm

I know its still beta but FSD has a LONG way to go and Tesla have the cheek to charge thousands for it right now!

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35878363/teslas-full-self-driving-beta-is-just-laughably-bad-and-potentially-dangerous/

Thats on a nice sunny day in a city with decent road markings. Imagine a tight European street in bad weather and terrible markings or the Ring of Kerry or any of our N or L roads.... dont hold your breath for FSD in this country any time soon.

22-03-2021 1:05pm

This frightens me. with drone view to see exactly where the car is positioning itself. FSD simply can't reliably handle this regularly occuring scenario.
https://youtu.be/uClWlVCwHsI

ELM327 · 22-03-2021 1:09pm

I must be one of the few people that dont want actual full self driving.
Good SAE level 4 would be fine.

Marlow · 22-03-2021 1:45pm

KCross wrote: »

I know its still beta but FSD has a LONG way to go and Tesla have the cheek to charge thousands for it right now!

You don't have to buy it. It's your choice. Also, there are other features in that package, that people buy it for.

Additionally, it comes at a massively discounted price, that has slowly been increased, as auto-pilot/FSD has become better and more functional. Benefits for early adopters.

The final pricing for those opting in later is 20k, I believe. So the lack of functionality is reflected in the current pricing.

So the comment "having the cheek" is unproportionate. Nobody is forced to pay for it.

/M

KCross · 22-03-2021 1:54pm

Marlow wrote: »

You don't have to buy it. It's your choice. Also, there are other features in that package, that people buy it for.

Additionally, it comes at a massively discounted price, that has slowly been increased, as auto-pilot/FSD has become better and more functional. Benefits for early adopters.

The final pricing for those opting in later is 20k, I believe. So the lack of functionality is reflected in the current pricing.

So the comment "having the cheek" is unproportionate. Nobody is forced to pay for it.

/M

All I can say is, spoken like a true fan!

It doesnt look like it has got better either so price increases arent justified. Its just hype.

And of course its a choice, I didnt say otherwise. I'm just saying that €1k for it is alot of money right now based on what it can do, not to mind €7.5k which is just ridiculous! €20k... i can only roll my eyes at Tesla on that one.

Also, what are these other features that justify the €7.5k? Summon and parking and the like? If its that then, all I can say is a fool and his money are easily parted.

But, as you said, its a choice so I'm just highlighting that people should make an informed one by looking at what it actually gets them and not buy the hype... thats my main point.

ELM327 · 22-03-2021 1:58pm

Currently the 3.5k for EAP is a much better bet. It gets you the functionality now. The delta between EAP and FSD is the future addons and at the moment they are vaporware.

Marlow · 22-03-2021 1:58pm

KCross wrote: »

All I can say is, spoken like a true fan!

Spoken like a true critic.

I've just made sure, that I know, what's in the package, what it can do now and if it's worth it. Plus what it might cost me later.

Not sure, if I would be paying for it. Also, it will be available as a service on a monthly charge, so one can always go down that route.

/M

AndyBoBandy · 22-03-2021 1:58pm

KCross wrote: »

Also, what are these other features that justify the €7.5k? Summon and parking and the like?

Summon & Auto Park are a part of Enhanced Auto Pilot, which is available today for €3,800

EAP also has navigate on autopilot & auto lane change (having tried it in a Model S a few weeks ago, it's actually quite good).

FSD (which adds Traffic light/stop sign control and (coming soon) Autosteer on city streets) is the one for €7,500

AndyBoBandy · 22-03-2021 2:01pm

Marlow wrote: »

Also, it will be available as a service on a monthly charge, so one can always go down that route.

FSD Subscription is coming, and for those of us who didn't get the purchased version, it would be a very viable option to subscribe to it for a month for that 2-3 week road trip across Europe... (when/if that ever becomes a thing again...)

I'll certainly give it a go for a month for a hundred euros or whatever it'll cost..

cnocbui · 22-03-2021 2:09pm

That wonderful Tesla autopilot recently took out another police car in the US a few days ago. At this rate, emergency workers are going to get severely injured or killed at some point. At least it doesn't seem to disciminate between fire services, ambulances or police vehicles, so it can't be accused of bias.

Marlow · 22-03-2021 3:17pm

cnocbui wrote: »

That wonderful Tesla autopilot recently took out another police car in the US a few days ago.

And the lad driving it had a suspended license, obviously didn't pay attention as he's supposed to and didn't move over to accommodate the copper. Hardly the fault of the system, when it's not being used as intended. Plus it's unlikely, that was FSD beta.

/M

riclad · 22-03-2021 3:50pm

the previous video shows that the fsd beta is not safe for the public .
The only reason he did not have an accident many times is he took control
and switched off the fsd many times .
it stopped behind a parked car. it stopped in the middle of the road, it simply is not safe to use in crowded city area,s where there is heavy traffic
and junctions where there may be cars coming from different directions
at the same time.
under fsd the car came very close to other cars on the other side of a road.
theres no way ordinary drivers would drive like the tesla car does under
fsd mode in the video

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/25/tesla-driver-autopilot-crash

it might be safe to use fsd on motorways maybe but its clear that
a car in fsd mode needs the driver to pay constant attention to
what the car is doing and be ready to take control in seconds if something goes wrong.
when you are driving you can harm yourself or put other drivers in danger.
Even a self driving mode that works fine 95 per cent of the time is not good enough to be allowed on public roads .

i,d prefer the to drive a car maybe using cruise control on a motorway
with the option where the car slows down automatically if the car in front is a certain distance away than use any form of fsd software .
https://www.herrmanandherrman.com/blog/tesla-autopilot-deaths-in-2020/

i think it would be better to switch off fsd until further safety tests
are carried out,
and admit there are really no self driving cars on the road that preform
to the standard of an average driver.
i understand many companys are testing self driving cars in many parts of america in area,s where there are low levels of traffic as they develop the software .
A system that needs the driver to take over every 3 minutes as in the video is useless and dangerous as some people will think
its safe to use and txt or make a phone call while in self driving mode.
i think we are maybe 3-5 years away from having cars that can drive safely in self driving mode in a busy city or urban area.
small delivery vans might be safe in certain area,s where they have all
the roads and junctions mapped out ,but its a complex problem as they have to take into account random events, like roadworks and
cars or trucks stopped at the side of the road .
I think theres good reasons why no other car company has released a self driving mode like tesla .
The software is not at the level where it is safe for ordinary drivers to use.

AndyBoBandy · 22-03-2021 4:10pm

^^ but this is the whole point of releasing the ‘beta’ version to a select number of Tesla owners......

Tesla are monitoring every interaction every single one of these cars has, from how it performs in real world conditions, to how many times the driver needs to take back control to avert an incident etc......

The best testing is real world testing, and that’s exact what we are seeing......

When folks get the beta version to test, it comes with a huge disclaimer that they must absolutely be ready to take control should the car try and do something silly... and that’s exactly what we are seeing in all these ‘FSD is rubbish’ videos.......

Yes it’s currently rubbish
But yes, it’s still in beta mode

Don’t think Tesla aren’t capturing millions and millions of pieces of data from every camera/sensor in these FSD cars to use to improve it, as to to so, would be foolish... especially with a product that’s still only in the beta testing phase!!!

It might still be a few years before it gets there, if it ever does.... but they need to start somewhere...

When this eventually starts rolling out in other regions, the system might need a year of local ‘learning’ from the local Tesla fleet before it is able to function...... (though have no doubt that it’s already learning local situations, just by simply being driven around by owners)

22-03-2021 4:30pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

^^ but this is the whole point of releasing the ‘beta’ version to a select number of Tesla owners......

Tesla are monitoring every interaction every single one of these cars has, from how it performs in real world conditions, to how many times the driver needs to take back control to avert an incident etc......

The best testing is real world testing, and that’s exact what we are seeing......

When folks get the beta version to test, it comes with a huge disclaimer that they must absolutely be ready to take control should the car try and do something silly... and that’s exactly what we are seeing in all these ‘FSD is rubbish’ videos.......

Yes it’s currently rubbish
But yes, it’s still in beta mode

Don’t think Tesla aren’t capturing millions and millions of pieces of data from every camera/sensor in these FSD cars to use to improve it, as to to so, would be foolish... especially with a product that’s still only in the beta testing phase!!!

It might still be a few years before it gets there, if it ever does.... but they need to start somewhere...

When this eventually starts rolling out in other regions, the system might need a year of local ‘learning’ from the local Tesla fleet before it is able to function...... (though have no doubt that it’s already learning local situations, just by simply being driven around by owners)

You don't do beta test in public.
You don't rely on people with no QA experience to do beta testing.
Release Candidates perhaps can be shared with competent people outside your organisation.

This is the ultimate implementation of DevOps philosophy which produces sh1t untested software with no underlying integrity that could go BOOM at any moment when the stars align.

...and Tesla still doesn't have enough sensors of the right types on their cars to accurately perceive the environment in which they are travelling.
Their cars certainly don't have depth of perception in any meaningful sense of the word.

BobbyBingo · 22-03-2021 5:57pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

EAP also has navigate on autopilot & auto lane change (having tried it in a Model S a few weeks ago, it's actually quite good).

I have EAP on my S. My thoughts:

Navigate on Autopilot: it does work but as we don't have a nested motorway network in Ireland with loads of spaghetti like junctions - it's not all that useful. You'll use it to try it, but that's about it.. On the M50 for example, it'll signal at my turn off, then it'll make the turn and swiftly stop Navigate on Autopilot because I'm going on to a 'normal' road. The only place I could see it useful is perhaps turning off the Limerick road (M7?), heading south, for Cork - and even then you'd only use it in case you forget to turn off (which I have done on more than one occasion).

Autopark: used once when I got the car new in 2018.

Auto Lane Change: doesn't really work in Ireland anymore (or certainly doesnt on my car). It used to be a case that if you came up behind a car, it'd move out and pass it without intervention - now it tells you to move out, at which point you say "grand - do it" by flicking the indicator and giving the wheel a bit of a nudge to tell it you are still in fact, alive.

Summon: really cool a) when it works and b) to scare the bejaysus :eek: out of the poor dog when you leave him in the car. Other than that, I've used it once in three years properly to gain access to the car when a numpty parked almost on top of me in Jurys in the IFSC. If I had a tight garage, I would use it

Have ordered a new S and although there isnt a EAP box to tick right now, I wouldnt have ticked it even if it was there - just not enough use of it to be honest, for the money - for me anyhow..

B

BobbyBingo · 22-03-2021 6:01pm

BobbyBingo wrote: »

... to scare the bejaysus :eek: out of the poor dog when you leave him in the car.
B

This chap did it to his grandmother.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjSf_HpEQHA

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