What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-04-2021 10:02AM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

The piles of bones is a direct quote from Greedy Boris Johnson who would do anything to hide his disastrous policies that lead to a death rate double here

Actually it's not, you can't even get an alleged quote right :pac:

27-04-2021 10:47AM

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Right I guess there’s not 70000 needlessly dead people either?

Keep saying it and it might be true.

Should we also get outraged about the 4000 needlessly dead people in Ireland, because Finland has a death rate of one sixth of that here?

astrofool · 27-04-2021 11:20AM

Aegir wrote: »

Keep saying it and it might be true.

Should we also get outraged about the 4000 needlessly dead people in Ireland, because Finland has a death rate of one sixth of that here?

Well, to be fair it's:

Finland great, Ireland OK, UK sh!t.

Ted_YNWA · 27-04-2021 12:36PM

Mod
Posts deleted.

Stay civil & on topic.

mick087 · 27-04-2021 01:27PM

astrofool wrote: »

Well, to be fair it's:

Finland great, Ireland OK, UK sh!t.

Most of Europe has done rubbish.

We should not have this league table of deaths.

Yes the UK government has many questions to answers to its citizens.

Lets not by pointing fingers let our own elected government and our representatives the EU commission blind us from there roles in this nightmare.

27-04-2021 01:50PM

mick087 wrote: »

Most of Europe has done rubbish.

We should not have this league table of deaths.

Yes the UK government has many questions to answers to its citizens.

Lets not by pointing fingers let our own elected government and our representatives the EU commission blind us from there roles in this nightmare.

It doesn't matter how good bad or indifferent the Irish government has done, as long as it can be spun that they've done better than the Tories, that is all some people will care about.

As more and more people get frustrated with the severe lack of any sort of a coherent plan, the louder the cries of "Look over there" will be.

brickster69 · 28-04-2021 09:01AM

40,000 doses thrown away in Hamburg

https://twitter.com/habichthorn/status/1386911182905348098

deeperlearning · 28-04-2021 09:34AM

A remarkably similar story to complaints made by GPs in the UK:

https://www.gponline.com/gps-defy-calls-discard-covid-19-vaccine-second-dose-jabs-continue/article/1706300

fly_agaric · 28-04-2021 11:01AM

Aegir wrote: »

It doesn't matter how good bad or indifferent the Irish government has done, as long as it can be spun that they've done better than the Tories, that is all some people will care about.
As more and more people get frustrated with the severe lack of any sort of a coherent plan, the louder the cries of "Look over there" will be.

You have a point about some people posting here or elsewhere on this site about UK politics/comparing Ireland to the UK (in Covid response or other things), but it is undermined by the fact you are just the other side of the coin as regards this country (evidenced by your posts).
You posted a big screed in thread earlier denouncing the Irish govt./HSE etc. for a load of stuff.
It was all quite one-eyed and distorted.

28-04-2021 11:15AM

fly_agaric wrote: »

You have a point about some people posting here or elsewhere on this site about UK politics/comparing Ireland to the UK (in Covid response or other things), but it is undermined by the fact you are just the other side of the coin as regards this country (evidenced by your posts).
You posted a big screed in thread earlier denouncing the Irish govt./HSE etc. for a load of stuff.
It was all quite one-eyed and distorted.

Not really, I live, work and pay taxes here, so the actions of the HSE and government have a direct impact on me and my immediate family.

deeperlearning · 28-04-2021 11:30AM

So that somehow justifies your tedious and nonsensical ranting.

fly_agaric · 28-04-2021 11:34AM

Aegir wrote: »

Not really, I live, work and pay taxes here, so the actions of the HSE and government have a direct impact on me and my immediate family.

Fair enough. Well we're all just behind a screen here. Some of those criticising the UK could be living there too, or else have some personal connections.

There were distortions + hyperbole in what you posted, some of it quite similar to exaggerations regarding UK (as regards corruption in government or failures in the Covid response) that you call out.

No point going into it line by line, will just takes thing further off topic.

Dyr · 28-04-2021 12:51PM

OOOPS:

"Belgium was cautioned ahead of time that the EU's contract with drugmaker AstraZeneca didn't include harsh consequences if the company failed to deliver coronavirus vaccines on schedule, according to an opinion the consultancy Deloitte prepared for the Belgian government"

https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-was-warned-eus-astrazeneca-contract-lacked-teeth-documents/

Professor Moriarty · 28-04-2021 02:26PM

fly_agaric wrote: »

Fair enough. Well we're all just behind a screen here. Some of those criticising the UK could be living there too, or else have some personal connections.

There were distortions + hyperbole in what you posted, some of it quite similar to exaggerations regarding UK (as regards corruption in government or failures in the Covid response) that you call out.

No point going into it line by line, will just takes thing further off topic.

In order to assess how well or badly Ireland is doing regarding mortality rates, one must compare. Who better to compare with than our nearest neighbours? So, on average, Ireland's mortality rate per capita is 40% less than the UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands. Just a fact.

fly_agaric · 28-04-2021 03:02PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In order to assess how well or badly Ireland is doing regarding mortality rates, one must compare. Who better to compare with than our nearest neighbours? So, on average, Ireland's mortality rate per capita is 40% less than the UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands. Just a fact.

I know mortality rate is lower here (didn't know exact %). Think you are getting the wrong end of the stick.
There are some areas I can think of where UK is not a great comparison for Ireland as regards Covid (these have been gone into already) but don't believe it would account for the difference, so that leaves the policies (harsher and longer restrictions that came somewhat earlier here).

Not to put words in his mouth...but "exaggerations" I was thinking of that annoy Aegir (relating to the UK / UK govt.) are that it is somehow uniquely bad as regards European Covid-19 response or for ruling party corruption, accusations that get thrown about it is now a "rogue state" under Boris Johnson and the like.

moritz1234 · 28-04-2021 03:19PM

In my opinion there should be three criteria for how a country is doing (not in any order)
*Deaths
*Vaccine rollout
*Opening the economy

deeperlearning · 28-04-2021 03:51PM

moritz1234 wrote: »

In my opinion there should be three criteria for how a country is doing (not in any order)
*Deaths
*Vaccine rollout
*Opening the economy

There are only two criteria in that case.

Vaccine rollout on its own is meaningless. Chile had administered about 59 doses per 100 people, a higher rate than the United States (50) or the United Kingdom (56). Yet cases surged and hospitalisations and deaths increased dramatically when the economy opened.

Reduced deaths and a successful opening of the economy are the two criteria that matter. A vaccine rollout is only useful if it contributes to improving these. If not, it is meaningless.

Enzokk · 28-04-2021 04:01PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

Our nearest neighbour as well as France and Spain are highly industrialised countries with big populations and large urban conurbations often packed closely together.
They're also major global transport hubs.
Ireland is essentially a rural country with no large industries and population concentrated mainly in Dublin and surrounds.
Comparisons like this are pointless.

Could we just say comparisons are useless as there will be all sorts of differences that would make it pointless? Remember when the UK was big on showing death numbers as an comparison, until they started overtaking all those other countries? They also argued then it was a useless comparison. Seems it is only useful if it proves your point...;)

28-04-2021 04:12PM

Enzokk wrote: »

Could we just say comparisons are useless as there will be all sorts of differences that would make it pointless? Remember when the UK was big on showing death numbers as an comparison, until they started overtaking all those other countries? They also argued then it was a useless comparison. Seems it is only useful if it proves your point...;)

Comparisons are useless.

I think ultimately there is a degree of inevitability to all this and as said previously, a lot of that will depend on population density and urbanization. How the **** do you socially distance if you live on the sixth floor of an apartment building, work in Tesco and get the tube to work every day?

Winters · 28-04-2021 04:17PM

I wonder where Ireland and the EU would would be right now if the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine had been delivered as per the contract schedule.

Incredible to think that the contracts would have made AZ the largest supplier with 300m vaccines ordered for 2021 in comparison to the 200m vaccines originally ordered from Pfizer.

That would have positioned AZ as a supplier of approximately 50% of all vaccines and not the 15% to 20% split of the current deliveries. It would have reduced the Pfizer split to 35%.

You can see why EU took the decisions it did regarding reviewing exports and taking its legal case.

Does it come back to the Oxford decision to choose the lesser experienced AZ over MSD? Who knows but we certainly would be in a better place in terms of % population vaccinated.

Assuming the AZ Q1 shortfall of 90 million doses (120-30) equates to 900K doses for Ireland up to end of March. Now where it gets complicated is if the AZ use would have still fallen into the over 50/60 and under 70 bracket due to lack of test data and the recent blood clot rulings.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/28/world/europe/european-union-pfizer-von-der-leyen-coronavirus-vaccine.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

28-04-2021 04:21PM

You could also say thank **** BioNtech chose to partner with Pfizer.

Frank Bullitt · 28-04-2021 04:29PM

The media hysteria over AZ has hot home for me. My GF is a teach here in Canada has has been offered AZ, she is beside herself with the panic and said to me last night "I don't want covid and I don't want to die from AZ".

I thought being offered a vaccine would bring happiness to people, but it has terrified her to the core.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-04-2021 04:49PM

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

The media hysteria over AZ has hot home for me. My GF is a teach here in Canada has has been offered AZ, she is beside herself with the panic and said to me last night "I don't want covid and I don't want to die from AZ".

I thought being offered a vaccine would bring happiness to people, but it has terrified her to the core.

What's her opinion on blood clots associated with the pill?

El Vino · 28-04-2021 05:07PM

The media hysteria over AZ has hot home for me. My GF is a teach here in Canada has has been offered AZ, she is beside herself with the panic and said to me last night "I don't want covid and I don't want to die from AZ".

I have sympathy for her, I would be tempted to ask her doctor for the latest advice. It is easy to say the blood clots are rare and they absolutely are, I would still check what the exact symptoms are so in the tiny chance your girlfriend has it can be detected and treated successfully. My understanding is detected early the condition can be treated. The early issues were late detection and conventional clotting treatment with Heparin made things worse

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-04-2021 05:07PM

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

The media hysteria over AZ has hot home for me. My GF is a teach here in Canada has has been offered AZ, she is beside herself with the panic and said to me last night "I don't want covid and I don't want to die from AZ".

I thought being offered a vaccine would bring happiness to people, but it has terrified her to the core.

Why would she die from having the AZ vaccine? :rolleyes:

is_that_so · 28-04-2021 05:14PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why would she die from having the AZ vaccine? :rolleyes:

Some people really do have a genuine fear of vaccines. Two in my circle have feelings similar to that lady if nowhere near that extreme. Not everyone has been able to deal with COVID with scorn and bravado. It's one more thing we'll likely have to fix after we get through vaccinations, the trail of mental damage from it.

Winters · 28-04-2021 05:18PM

Knuckles Kennedy wrote: »

People might also be wondering why the EU should choose to sue the manufacturer of a vaccine when some of its leaders such as Macron have spent so long questioning its effectiveness leading to many doses lying unused in their countries as vax hesitancy sets in.
Deflecting attention from their own failures perhaps ?

The reason the EU are taking AZ to court is because AZ have delivered 25% (30 million vaccines) of the 120 million vaccines that the EU contracted them to deliver to end of March 2021. Whatever about 'best efforts', 90 million vaccines not delivered is a significant shortfall.

They will probably also do the same after Q2. As it stands AZ have predicted they will deliver only 40% (70 million vaccines) of the 180 million vaccines to end of June 2021.

it's effectiveness, while in debate, is not being questioned in the legal arguments.

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-04-2021 05:27PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Some people really do have a genuine fear of vaccines. Two in my circle have feelings similar to that lady if nowhere near that extreme. Not everyone has been able to deal with COVID with scorn and bravado. It's one more thing we'll likely have to fix after we get through vaccinations, the trail of mental damage from it.

But would the same people be afraid of taking the pill? Popping a paracetamol for a headache? Getting pregnant? All of these have a higher risk of causing blood clots than the AZ vaccine.

Frank Bullitt · 28-04-2021 05:35PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

What's her opinion on blood clots associated with the pill?

We went over that, got the impression that she knows deep down that AZ is very safe and the pros outweigh the cons. That is my hope anyway.

Enzokk · 28-04-2021 05:37PM

Aegir wrote: »

Comparisons are useless.

I think ultimately there is a degree of inevitability to all this and as said previously, a lot of that will depend on population density and urbanization. How the **** do you socially distance if you live on the sixth floor of an apartment building, work in Tesco and get the tube to work every day?

Next time you jump to compare how terrible Ireland is doing as well, remember your post.

As for what you should if you live in those conditions, I don't know. How has Hong Kong fared? Seems like it will be almost impossible to keep people living in a dense urban environment from getting Covid and having massive deaths.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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