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Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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    #4802
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    US has had a very nationalistic policy yet Fauci is saying this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/28/were-all-in-this-together-dr-fauci-says-world-has-failed-india-as-covid-cases-surge?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


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    #4803
    Omega28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭Omega28


    I'm waiting for a third open heart surgery and will recieve my first vaccine dose today. I'm a 34 year old male. I know of a young woman who needs a heart transplant and has yet to have here first vaccine also. I think that's pretty shocking.


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    #4804
    Zipppy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭Zipppy


    Omega28 wrote: »
    I'm waiting for a third open heart surgery and will recieve my first vaccine dose today. I'm a 34 year old male. I know of a young woman who needs a heart transplant and has yet to have here first vaccine also. I think that's pretty shocking.

    why are they vaccinating healthy 60 somethings ahead of extremely vulnerable younger people???


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    #4805
    Champagne Sally
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭Champagne Sally


    Omega28 wrote: »
    I'm waiting for a third open heart surgery and will recieve my first vaccine dose today. I'm a 34 year old male. I know of a young woman who needs a heart transplant and has yet to have here first vaccine also. I think that's pretty shocking.

    That is shocking Omega. I wish you the very best with your surgery and hope all goes well. Also with your vaccine today. :)


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    #4806
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Zipppy wrote: »
    why are they vaccinating healthy 60 somethings ahead of extremely vulnerable younger people???
    The 60 somethings are in the online system. Groups 4 & 7 are a separate process via hospitals and GPs.


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    #4807
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Elessar wrote: »
    We all know what's going to happen. 50-59 year olds won't be asked to wait (imagine the outrage!) and so will get Pfizer and whatever AZ/J&J come in in the meantime. Come June 400k+ doses of J&J will be delivered that no one can use and they will be sold to other countries with no ridiculous restrictions.
    Yep that's what I'm worried about.

    Leaving aside the "outrage", we'd have an entire group at elevated risk who would be waiting until one manufacturer delivers enough vaccines for them, possibly by late June. If there was any hiccups with manufacturing, that date could be pushed into July. Meanwhile the 40 year olds would be finished, and they'd be starting on the 20 and 30 years olds.

    That's just not going to happen. It'll be vaccinate the 50 year olds with everything we've got (maybe prioritising any extra AZ we have) and we end up with a pile of unused J&J vaccines in late June and the 20/30 year olds will be told "sorry, but it's a couple of extra weeks in lockdown for you."


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    #4808
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    Rebelbrowser wrote: »
    More likely will do what it did with AZ and decide after 4 weeks that they can lower the threshold for J&J by 10 years....

    From what I've read the blood clotting issue is very treatable now that they know what's going on. Or at least they're nearly certain it is but it needs a little more real world testing.

    We could definitely see the restrictions being relaxed if the treatment protocol is more certain.


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    #4809
    PhoenixParker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭PhoenixParker


    hmmm wrote: »
    Yep that's what I'm worried about.

    Leaving aside the "outrage", we'd have an entire group at elevated risk who would be waiting until one manufacturer delivers enough vaccines for them, possibly by late June. If there was any hiccups with manufacturing, that date could be pushed into July. Meanwhile the 40 year olds would be finished, and they'd be starting on the 20 and 30 years olds.

    That's just not going to happen. It'll be vaccinate the 50 year olds with everything we've got (maybe prioritising any extra AZ we have) and we end up with a pile of unused J&J vaccines in late June and the 20/30 year olds will be told "sorry, but it's a couple of extra weeks in lockdown for you."

    It's effectively already happening. They're doing 60-69 year olds with AZ while some 70+ year olds are still waiting for dose 1 Pfizer.

    We'll most likely barely notice it as the "delay" will be a week or two for the last chunk of the over 50s and both groups will be run concurrently.


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    #4810
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    It's effectively already happening. They're doing 60-69 year olds with AZ while some 70+ year olds are still waiting for dose 1 Pfizer.

    We'll most likely barely notice it as the "delay" will be a week or two for the last chunk of the over 50s and both groups will be run concurrently.
    They are different processes. Over 70s are GPs, with some MVC involvement but 60-69 are HSE administered MVCs plus the over 50s are a much bigger group. It could take a lot longer than a week or two delay. Even with supplies available the over 50s could take 3-4 weeks to do.


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    #4811
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,159 ✭✭✭plodder


    sd1999 wrote: »
    Honestly, I think the provision that J&J can be used “if no other vaccine is available” will prevent it going to waste. That stipulation is very loose and open to interpretation and I imagine a lot of people would jump at the option to only need one dose.
    Well it makes a lot more sense now if that is what was meant by it.


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    #4812
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭Russman


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Isn't there a get out clause of "if no other vaccine available" for J & J? People barely even noticed this today but it might be significant. Let's say they tear through the over 50s in May with the four vaccines and then open the portal to the 49-45 year olds. At that point, if there are not sufficient vaccines available but they have surplus stock of J & J, it seems they have the green light to administer it.
    sd1999 wrote: »
    Honestly, I think the provision that J&J can be used “if no other vaccine is available” will prevent it going to waste. That stipulation is very loose and open to interpretation and I imagine a lot of people would jump at the option to only need one dose.

    I'd like to see the exact wording, but I thought I read something yesterday (looking but can't find it just now) where the wording wasn't as simple as no other vaccine available, it was more pointed towards hard to reach groups and locations. Open to correction, but it did strike me as being a bit more specific, whilst at the same time treading carefully by not mentioning specific groups, which I assume would be travellers, Roma, homeless etc.
    I doubt the wording could be used to stock up the Aviva with J&J and simply tell everyone who arrives that there's nothing else available. Whether you agree with NIAC's advice or not, that's clearly not the intent of it to be fair. The HSE would or could never be seen to be twisting or manipulating expert advice and taking the p1ss with it a little.

    Unless of course it was NIAC's intention to give them an "out", but I don't think that's the way they'd operate.


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    #4813
    Cooled1
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Cooled1


    Shouldn't healthy under 50s just be given 1 vaccine but give them the option to take the 2nd vaccine if they wish when it becomes available? The risk of hositalisation and serious illness for this group is so low that 2 doses of the vaccine just seems like overkill. Would help us to get back to normal months earlier.


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    #4814
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    https://twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1387326097512087554?s=21


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    #4815
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    The priority in the general population has to be the age groups in reverse order first with whatever is available. If that leaves us stuck with supplies of AZ and J&J when all the over 50s are done so be it. We'll deal with the problems that occur then. There's a decent chance the risks associated with the viral vectors may be even better understood by then facilitating their use in younger age groups. Or we may be stalled in our progress of the younger cohorts. Who knows? Regardless, that's a few weeks away. We need to minimise risk of severe disease as much as possible in the first instance.

    The risk of severe covid decreases by factors of ten as you descend the decades. People over 40 have to be vaccinated as quickly as possible imo.


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    #4816
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Cooled1 wrote: »
    Shouldn't healthy under 50s just be given 1 vaccine but give them the option to take the 2nd vaccine if they wish when it becomes available? The risk of hositalisation and serious illness for this group is so low that 2 doses of the vaccine just seems like overkill. Would help us to get back to normal months earlier.

    No you need second dose to lock in long term protection for Pfizer \ Moderna \ AZ.

    Some countries are spacing out the doses beyond the 4 weeks.
    That approach has been discussed a lot on this thread.
    I personally think spacing should be looked at especially for healthy under 60s.
    But NIAC confirmed recently no change to the spacing at present.

    An 'informed consent' option for say 40 somethings to sign up for single dose J&J in a pharmacy, rather than waiting for Pfizer in an MVC, would be popular... especially if it meant people could travel.
    But again, doesn't seem to be on the table here.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #4817
    Valhallapt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    An 'informed consent' option for say 40 somethings to sign up for single dose J&J in a pharmacy, rather than waiting for Pfizer in an MVC, would be popular... especially if it meant people could travel.
    But again, doesn't seem to be on the table here.

    Yea I'd be in the pharmacy as quick as possible to get my travel cert


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    #4818
    Lucas Hood
    Registered Users Posts: 7,205 ✭✭✭Lucas Hood


    1,417,942 vaccines now administered.
    A difference of +19,881 compared to yesterday.


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    #4819
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    No you need second dose to lock in long term protection for Pfizer \ Moderna \ AZ.

    Some countries are spacing out the doses beyond the 4 weeks.
    That approach has been discussed a lot on this thread.
    I personally think spacing should be looked at especially for healthy under 60s.
    But NIAC confirmed recently no change to the spacing at present.

    An 'informed consent' option for say 40 somethings to sign up for single dose J&J in a pharmacy, rather than waiting for Pfizer in an MVC, would be popular... especially if it meant people could travel.
    But again, doesn't seem to be on the table here.

    The problem with informed consent waiver is you need to have luxury of choice. Right now we don't have that. In a few months we may. As things stand we need people to take their designated vaccine with extremely limited exceptions. A waiver would mean everyone would potentially need to be able to access more than one vaccine in a timely manner.


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    #4820
    sd1999
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭sd1999


    Cooled1 wrote: »
    Shouldn't healthy under 50s just be given 1 vaccine but give them the option to take the 2nd vaccine if they wish when it becomes available? The risk of hositalisation and serious illness for this group is so low that 2 doses of the vaccine just seems like overkill. Would help us to get back to normal months earlier.

    That's... not how the vaccines work. You need two doses of Pfizer, Moderna and AZ. It's not overkill to give two doses, it's what's needed to be fully protected and prevent transmission as much as possible. By all means, if someone doesn't go for their second dose that's their decision but they won't be as protected long term and are more likely to transmit the virus.


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    #4821
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I don't think this is really going to make a massive difference. Initial J&J supplies we know are prioritised for other groups anyway.

    If you think logistically about this, it's going to be next week (or even the week after) before people aged 59 will be invited to register for a vaccine. Ten days again before they start even vaccinating them. Which means it'll be the start of June at the very earliest before a jab goes near someone aged 50-55. At which point there'll be enough AZ & J&J to mostly cover them all.

    I expect the 40-49 group will be started in parallel towards the end of May.

    By the end of June then Everyone over 50 is covered, you've exhausted your AZ & J&J supplies and you can begin in earnest on the under-40s.


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    #4822
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Lucas Hood wrote: »
    1,417,942 vaccines now administered.
    A difference of +19,881 compared to yesterday.
    Where are you seeing that?

    Low in comparison to midweek last week, but massive for a Monday. A clear indication that the programme is getting into its stride.


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    #4823
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,512 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Turtwig wrote: »
    The problem with informed consent waiver is you need to have luxury of choice. Right now we don't have that. In a few months we may. As things stand we need people to take their designated vaccine with extremely limited exceptions. A waiver would mean everyone would potentially need to be able to access more than one vaccine in a timely manner.

    I guess I was envisaging a scenario where we had J&J spare in a month but say 40 somethings still to be vaccinated and jumping the queue for J&J would mean they'd be done much earlier.
    If we don't have J&J spare it's a moot point.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #4824
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    seamus wrote: »
    Where are you seeing that?

    Low in comparison to midweek last week, but massive for a Monday. A clear indication that the programme is getting into its stride.

    It on the HSE daily dashboard. Yeah low compared to the peaks but shows the impact of the MVCs on the “low” days


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    #4825
    degrassinoel
    Registered Users Posts: 10,737 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    I got my first jab on Saturday (I'm 44 with two chronic illnesses, respiratory and immune system) and honestly, the relief of getting it, it's something else.


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    #4826
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,113 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    I am not complaining about the vaccine rollout in general and I think it going well and very organised . But Cohort 4 and 7 are definitely lacking organisation
    They had a year to sort that and decided at the last minute to try to co ordinate it
    Many people are waiting in those cohorts and some in 7 being done before those in 4 .
    In fact you could be in cohort 7 and not be vaccinated while your own age group are


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    #4827
    1huge1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭1huge1


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    It on the HSE daily dashboard. Yeah low compared to the peaks but shows the impact of the MVCs on the “low” days


    https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-26-april-2021.pdf

    Why is Monday a low day?


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    #4828
    Cooled1
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Cooled1


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    No you need second dose to lock in long term protection for Pfizer \ Moderna \ AZ.

    No one knows how long any vaccine protects you for long term as no data for this exists yet, though pfizer have said they believe a top up will be needed every year


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    #4829
    Cooled1
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Cooled1


    sd1999 wrote: »
    That's... not how the vaccines work. You need two doses of Pfizer, Moderna and AZ. It's not overkill to give two doses, it's what's needed to be fully protected and prevent transmission as much as possible. By all means, if someone doesn't go for their second dose that's their decision but they won't be as protected long term and are more likely to transmit the virus.

    2 doses of any of these vaccines do not give 100% protection, the added protection of the 2nd dose is very small. It would be better if twice as many people had 70% protection etc rather than half that amount of people having zero protection. And again no one knows the long term or even medium term protection from the vaccines, though it is believed than a top up dose is likely to be needed every year.


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    #4830
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Cooled1 wrote: »
    No one knows how long any vaccine protects you for long term as no data for this exists yet, though pfizer have said they believe a top up will be needed every year

    Or the efficacy against the variants....much of this is learning "as you go".

    The only thing that matters - they are all virtually 100% effective against death, hospitalisation and serious illness. If you get a "Covid-Cold" or whatever you want to call it for a few days, does it really matter?

    People are putting way too much focus on the original clinical trials - and don't understand that they are not comparing like v like.

    Look at the experience of other countries (e.g. the UK) to see just how effective any of these vaccines are.


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    #4831
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    1huge1 wrote: »
    https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/vaccination-programme-dashboard-as-of-26-april-2021.pdf

    Why is Monday a low day?

    I’m not sure but historically it was lower, possibly due to deliveries coming on Mondays and then being shipped to GPs around the country.


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