Andrew Brown Shooting (US)

hawley wrote: »

The 42-year-old from Elizabeth City, North Carolina, was shot to death on Wednesday by a deputy sheriff trying to serve a search warrant. An eyewitness said Brown tried to drive away, but was shot dead in his car.

The shooting prompted protests and demands for accountability in the eastern North Carolina city of about 18,000. The deputy, who has not been identified, has been put on leave pending a state investigation.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/22/andrew-brown-shooting-north-carolina

There seems to be an unending amount of these incidents. Surely the policeman could have tried to call for support, rather than shoot him as he drove away.

What part of the world do you live?

hawley wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/22/andrew-brown-shooting-north-carolina

This report is muck; we get 16 paragraphs of character defense, blame shifting to his mother being killed and him dropping out of school etc. - yes, those are issues to discuss in the aftermath, with social safety nets etc and policies or whatever, but not excuses or explanation for the incident which is centrally being reported on, and I'm really cheesed off that Guardian's piece in this regard is basic muck.

Having tried to get a different take from WaPo I see the suspect was reportedly unarmed, with the police department being especially mum about what happened and as of yet, have declined* to publish the incident footage which appears to be the prime demand of the demonstrators on the ground. WaPo's best of knowledge about the incident thus far - thank goodness for a cup of actual journalism with regard to actually telling us what went down before hyping the reader up on sympathies for the deceased before they have any knowledge of what at all happened:

At around 8:30 a.m. Wednesday, the sheriff’s office said, deputies arrived at the 400 block of Perry Street to execute an arrest warrant for Brown in Elizabeth City, located about 45 miles south of Norfolk. Pasquotank County Sheriff’s Chief Deputy Daniel Fogg said in a video statement that Brown was “a felon with a history of resisting arrest,” but he did not release additional details. Court records show Brown had been previously convicted of misdemeanor drug possession and had pending drug charges.

“Our training and our policies indicate under such circumstances there is a high risk of danger,” Fogg said in the recorded statement.

Those who watched the encounter told local media that Brown got into his car and started to drive away from law enforcement. That’s when, neighbors say, the sheriff’s deputies started shooting at Brown, firing off six to eight shots. The News & Observer said that one neighbor said she found 14 shell casings. Daniels told The Post that it remained unclear whether Brown was shot at from outside his car. He added that all three deputies fired their guns.


Police have yet to release any information about whether Brown was unarmed.

Neighbor Demetria Williams recounted to the Associated Press that Brown’s car skidded from his yard and hit a tree. She told WITN that the deputies tried to resuscitate Brown after the shooting but that it was too late.

“When they opened the door, he was slumped over already,” Williams said, adding that Brown “wasn’t a threat.”

“I knew he was gone,” Williams said.

When authorities removed Brown’s vehicle, the car was riddled with multiple bullet holes and had a broken rear windshield, AP reported.

there's other quote from the neighbors about how the incident has disturbed them etc. but that don't add any pertinent details to the immediate incident.

NAACP, Carolina Public Press et al. are expected to file a motion today for a court order to release the body camera footage - * it is important to note that in North Carolina state law stipulates the police are 'only required' to release footage under a court order. I don't know if this is a simplification by the WaPo author if it is is the implication that the Police could, but are reluctant, to publish the video. From the reporting of the incident, the videos would likely be incredibly graphic and stir up a lot of emotions, however I'm not entirely sure that should be a valid excuse to not do so - that leads to 'we ****ed up so badly and so violently that we can't show it to you because you'd be super angry with us.' I hope they release the video soon, I figure it won't come out before a court order. Currently, seems like no definitive conclusions can be reasonably argued about who is at fault for what with immediate regard to the shooting that occurred.

edit: forgot the link

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/elizabeth-city-andrew-brown-shooting/

markmoto wrote: »

Or perhaps watching these videos to understand what law enforcement is dealing with on a daily basis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ykxQyNM9vw

Or what the public deals with?



I believe there are all sorts of videos that we could call back up to gaslight this case before we have any definitive facts about it.

So all speculation and no facts yet. I'll wait for the video.

Overheal wrote: »

Did Tamir Rice resist? Did Philando Castile?

The cop didn't know that Tamir Rice had a toy gun. He was responding to a report of someone with a gun so he likely expected he was going to meet an armed person. Added to that, the gun that Tamir Rice had didn't have the mandated orange barrel tip that airsoft replicas are supposed to have. The cop said he saw Tamir Rice reaching for the gun in his waistband. Video footage is poor but it seems to show that Rice could have been reaching for the gun so I guess we'll have to give the cop the benefit of the doubt on that one. The cop was cleared by a Grand Jury and also by a DOJ investigation that concluded in 2020. They said that there wasn't enough evidence to charge him with a crime.

Regarding Philando Castile, I'm not so much on the side of the cop. I think the cop overreacted but the jury thought otherwise. I don't agree with the jury verdict. The cop was so close that if he saw Castile's hand on a pistol, he had time to react. Maybe not so much time to react in the case of Tamir Rice (if the gun was real).

AmyMurphy22 wrote: »

Thanks. They're going to court on Wednesday to release the video to the public. Brace yourselves.

It's also only one bodycam, from one of the officers at the back, only 20 seconds, and seems to start once the shooting has already begun.

Unfortunately, it really looks like the police are hesitant to show them any more because they're trying to hide something.

twowheelsonly wrote: »

"In your opinion" it's confirmation bias or whatever the latest buzz word is.
In my opinion, backed by figures, it's not.

There are a little over 10 million arrests per year in the USA.
How many of these end up in shootings ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings of a black man ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings of an unarmed compliant black man ?

The answers will confirm whether your theory of confirmation bias stands up or not.

Do these numbers excuse the behavior of any cop in an incident of police brutality? Didn’t I already mention how drastically America changed after 9/11 even though it only happened once? We can do better than “it doesn’t happen more than a couple thousand times a year so why should be attentive to deaths of suspects at the hands of police?”

twowheelsonly wrote: »

My point is that it doesn't point to 'confirmation bias' as you were asserting. I'm not saying that any shooting is ok, just pointing out that there is zero evidence of confirmation bias when you break down the numbers.

Please read the quote of the user I was responding to when I mentioned confirmation bias. I’m not sure it is related to what you are talking about. Police brutality can occur regardless of the criminal record of the victim.

Independent autopsy commissioned by the family is completed.

Andrew Brown was killed by gunfire of course. Struck by 5 shots, 1 to the back of the head. The other 4 hit his right arm.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/andrew-brown-jr-shot-five-times-once-back-head-according-n1265460

That head shot was fired from "intermediate" range and penetrated Brown's skull and brain, according to Hall, who is based in Boone, North Carolina.

The bullet wound to the back of Brown's head had a trajectory of "bottom to top, left to right and back to front," Hall's report said.

"This, in fact, was a fatal wound to the back of Mr. Brown's head as he was leaving the site trying to evade being shot at by these particular law enforcement officers that we believe did nothing but a straight up execution," family lawyer Wayne Kendall told reporters during a press conference.

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Hall's report confirmed findings of a state death certificate that showed Brown was shot five times, once in the head and four other times — in the right shoulder, twice in the upper right arm and once more around his right elbow.

It called Brown's immediate cause of death: "Penetrating gunshot wound of the head."

Trajectory suggests to me he might have had his head ducked down with a bullet coming from behind him

hawley wrote: »

New video released in the past hour. It seems like the police started shooting straight off. We need to see more of the footage but it seems fairly conclusive. Andrew Brown's son called it an extrajudicial assault.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/28/us/andrew-brown-elizabeth-city-shooting-wednesday/index.html

Having watched the short clip in the above link where the cops arrive in the back of the pickup truck and jump out at the end of his driveway, it's quite possible that Brown was reversing his truck towards them with the potential to run over them. Maybe this is the reason for them opening fire.

I'm not saying that as a fact, but it's possible as the cops would be in his driveway. I'd like to see a lot more footage before I deem it an extrajudicial killing.

hawley wrote: »

New video released in the past hour. It seems like the police started shooting straight off. We need to see more of the footage but it seems fairly conclusive. Andrew Brown's son called it an extrajudicial assault.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/28/us/andrew-brown-elizabeth-city-shooting-wednesday/index.html

A new video shows that no more than four seconds passed between when Pasquotank Sheriff's deputies arrived at Andrew Brown Jr.'s home and when shots began to ring out, a family attorney said Tuesday.

"This was, in fact, an extrajudicial killing, an execution if you will," Brown family attorney Wayne Kendall told CNN's John Berman. "Mr. Brown's car never moved toward those deputies."

CNN obtained the video, which shows the deputies arriving on scene. It is, however, not clear what is being said in the video or when the shooting started.

According to the landlord for Browns family there were CCTV cameras on the property before the incident but these have since been removed. It is unclear who removed them. Wow.

BattleCorp wrote: »

I know I often fall on the side of the cops so maybe I'm biased but the removal of the CCTV cameras (presumably by the family) certainly seems dodgy.

I wonder did the cops get a copy of the footage (if any exists) before the system was removed?

Yeah I don’t know. Hard to say how recently the landlords knowledge is, as Brown is alleged to have been dealing drugs actively enough to warrant such a hostile looking warrant squad, it’s reasonably possible he too could have taken them down. I wouldn’t count on getting footage from them. And it would be somewhat difficult to get away with removal if it was the police, surreptitiously, with the family and so many bystanders around after the fact?

2 officers involved have resigned, 1 has retired. 5 are on paid leave.

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm flip-flopping all over the place with regard to this. I was sort of on the cops side watching the video but if cops are resigning and retiring, that isn't a good look. I guess we really do need to see all of the footage before coming to a judgement.

Not a chance it was the police who removed the CCTV cameras. The Brown Family would have been shouting about that the second it happened. My guess is it was the family who removed them. Now the question is, were they there at the time of the shooting or were they removed before that?

If they were there I doubt the family would have removed them, the cops would have seen them and retrieved video. nothing in the case indicates the family are trying to hide anything, but the opposite they want everything published. Doing my best to give the police the benefit of the doubt because of NC body camera disclosure law inserted into the situation