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Andrew Brown Shooting (US)

  • 23-04-2021 5:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭ hawley


    The 42-year-old from Elizabeth City, North Carolina, was shot to death on Wednesday by a deputy sheriff trying to serve a search warrant. An eyewitness said Brown tried to drive away, but was shot dead in his car.

    The shooting prompted protests and demands for accountability in the eastern North Carolina city of about 18,000. The deputy, who has not been identified, has been put on leave pending a state investigation.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/22/andrew-brown-shooting-north-carolina

    There seems to be an unending amount of these incidents. Surely the policeman could have tried to call for support, rather than shoot him as he drove away.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭ markmoto


    hawley wrote: »
    The 42-year-old from Elizabeth City, North Carolina, was shot to death on Wednesday by a deputy sheriff trying to serve a search warrant. An eyewitness said Brown tried to drive away, but was shot dead in his car.

    The shooting prompted protests and demands for accountability in the eastern North Carolina city of about 18,000. The deputy, who has not been identified, has been put on leave pending a state investigation.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/22/andrew-brown-shooting-north-carolina

    There seems to be an unending amount of these incidents. Surely the policeman could have tried to call for support, rather than shoot him as he drove away.


    What part of the world do you live?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,122 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    markmoto wrote: »
    What part of the world do you live?




    There might be an Irish angle. Maybe he was related to Christy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    hawley wrote: »

    This report is muck; we get 16 paragraphs of character defense, blame shifting to his mother being killed and him dropping out of school etc. - yes, those are issues to discuss in the aftermath, with social safety nets etc and policies or whatever, but not excuses or explanation for the incident which is centrally being reported on, and I'm really cheesed off that Guardian's piece in this regard is basic muck.

    Having tried to get a different take from WaPo I see the suspect was reportedly unarmed, with the police department being especially mum about what happened and as of yet, have declined* to publish the incident footage which appears to be the prime demand of the demonstrators on the ground. WaPo's best of knowledge about the incident thus far - thank goodness for a cup of actual journalism with regard to actually telling us what went down before hyping the reader up on sympathies for the deceased before they have any knowledge of what at all happened:
    At around 8:30 a.m. Wednesday, the sheriff’s office said, deputies arrived at the 400 block of Perry Street to execute an arrest warrant for Brown in Elizabeth City, located about 45 miles south of Norfolk. Pasquotank County Sheriff’s Chief Deputy Daniel Fogg said in a video statement that Brown was “a felon with a history of resisting arrest,” but he did not release additional details. Court records show Brown had been previously convicted of misdemeanor drug possession and had pending drug charges.

    “Our training and our policies indicate under such circumstances there is a high risk of danger,” Fogg said in the recorded statement.

    Those who watched the encounter told local media that Brown got into his car and started to drive away from law enforcement. That’s when, neighbors say, the sheriff’s deputies started shooting at Brown, firing off six to eight shots. The News & Observer said that one neighbor said she found 14 shell casings. Daniels told The Post that it remained unclear whether Brown was shot at from outside his car. He added that all three deputies fired their guns.


    Police have yet to release any information about whether Brown was unarmed.

    Neighbor Demetria Williams recounted to the Associated Press that Brown’s car skidded from his yard and hit a tree. She told WITN that the deputies tried to resuscitate Brown after the shooting but that it was too late.

    “When they opened the door, he was slumped over already,” Williams said, adding that Brown “wasn’t a threat.”

    “I knew he was gone,” Williams said.

    When authorities removed Brown’s vehicle, the car was riddled with multiple bullet holes and had a broken rear windshield, AP reported.

    there's other quote from the neighbors about how the incident has disturbed them etc. but that don't add any pertinent details to the immediate incident.

    NAACP, Carolina Public Press et al. are expected to file a motion today for a court order to release the body camera footage - * it is important to note that in North Carolina state law stipulates the police are 'only required' to release footage under a court order. I don't know if this is a simplification by the WaPo author if it is is the implication that the Police could, but are reluctant, to publish the video. From the reporting of the incident, the videos would likely be incredibly graphic and stir up a lot of emotions, however I'm not entirely sure that should be a valid excuse to not do so - that leads to 'we ****ed up so badly and so violently that we can't show it to you because you'd be super angry with us.' I hope they release the video soon, I figure it won't come out before a court order. Currently, seems like no definitive conclusions can be reasonably argued about who is at fault for what with immediate regard to the shooting that occurred.

    edit: forgot the link

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/23/elizabeth-city-andrew-brown-shooting/


  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭ markmoto


    Or perhaps watching these kind of videos to understand what law enforcement is dealing with on a daily basis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    markmoto wrote: »
    Or perhaps watching these videos to understand what law enforcement is dealing with on a daily basis.


    Or what the public deals with?



    I believe there are all sorts of videos that we could call back up to gaslight this case before we have any definitive facts about it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭ Kivaro


    I wonder about these threads. With the same posters getting hot and heavy with the topic.

    Isn't it curious though that there was no thread created for the incident today where: "A female police employee has been fatally stabbed in a knife attack at a police station in Rambouillet, south-west of Paris."

    In this incident, a police employee in France was murdered by a Muslim migrant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭ hawley


    Witnesses and family members are saying that he didn't have a gun. The police force haven't released the bodycam footage yet. There have been big protests in the last few days, especially in light of the George Floyd conviction.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,154 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Ten of Swords


    Kivaro wrote: »
    I wonder about these threads. With the same posters getting hot and heavy with the topic.

    Isn't it curious though that there was no thread created for the incident today where: "A female police employee has been fatally stabbed in a knife attack at a police station in Rambouillet, south-west of Paris."

    In this incident, a police employee in France was murdered by a Muslim migrant.

    Please discuss the topic of the thread, there is already a thread about the stabbing in France


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭ Kivaro


    Please pm the Mod in future, here is the thread
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058067461


  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭ hawley


    In a Facebook video posted Saturday afternoon, Pasquotank County, N.C., Sheriff Tommy Wooten II said his office wants the body camera footage related to the killing of Andrew Brown Jr. to be made public.

    His statement came three days after Andrew Brown Jr., a 42-year-old Black man, was shot and killed by Pasquotank County Sheriff's Office deputies in Elizabeth City. The events were captured by the deputies' body cameras.

    "I've asked the [North Carolina] State Bureau of Investigation to confirm for me that the releasing of the video will not undermine their investigation," said Wooten. "Once I get that confirmation, our county will file a motion in court, hopefully Monday, to have the footage released."

    In the Facebook video, Pasquotank County Chief Deputy Daniel Fogg said their office has called on the North Carolina Sheriffs' Association to appoint an outside sheriff's office to conduct an investigation of all individuals who were involved in the incident.

    Local NAACP president calls for resignation of county sheriff

    At a media event Saturday afternoon at Mt. Lebanon AME Zion Church in Elizabeth City, the Rev. William Barber — along with Andrew Brown Jr.'s family, activists, clergy and members of the NAACP — addressed the events surrounding Brown's killing.

    "A warrant is not a license to kill," said Barber as he repeatedly called for the release of the body camera footage.
    https://www.npr.org/2021/04/25/990634265/n-c-sheriff-pushes-to-release-bodycam-footage-in-killing-of-andrew-brown-jr

    They seem to be holding off on releasing the footage because of the George Floyd. There have been big protests in the last few days. This is an absolute s**tshow.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,965 ✭✭✭✭ Potential-Monke


    So all speculation and no facts yet. I'll wait for the video.


  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭ hawley


    So all speculation and no facts yet. I'll wait for the video.

    Looks like we're going to have the bodycam footage tomorrow. If turns out to be an unlawful killing, it could really inflame the country.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/25/us/andrew-brown-jr-north-carolina-police-shooting-sunday/index.html

    CNN)A North Carolina sheriff says he wants body camera footage of Andrew Brown Jr.'s fatal shooting to be made public, but there will have to be a court motion to do it.

    "Only a judge can release the video," Pasquotank County Sheriff Tommy Wooten said in a video message posted Saturday on Facebook. "That's why I've asked the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation to confirm for me that the releasing of the video will not undermine their investigation."

    Once he gets that confirmation, the sheriff said, the county will file a motion in court, "hopefully Monday," to have that footage released. His announcement followed calls from Elizabeth City leaders for the footage to be released.


  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭ hawley


    Elizabeth City has declared a state of emergency ahead of the release of body camera footage of the law enforcement killing of Andrew Brown last week. This could re-escalate the whole situation in light of the George Floyd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    hawley wrote: »
    Elizabeth City has declared a state of emergency ahead of the release of body camera footage of the law enforcement killing of Andrew Brown last week. This could re-escalate the whole situation in light of the George Floyd incident epidemic of people dying at the hands of police by the thousands every year and thousands more being abused in police interactions

    FYP TBH


  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭ Normal One


    Is it just a coincidence that all of these guys have a long criminal history, and all fail to comply with police?


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    Normal One wrote: »
    Is it just a coincidence that all of these guys have a long criminal history, and all fail to comply with police?

    No. It’s confirmation bias.

    Did Tamir Rice resist? Did Philando Castile?


  • Site Banned Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ AmyMurphy22


    Overheal wrote: »
    No. It’s confirmation bias.

    Did Tamir Rice resist? Did Philando Castile?

    There's a handful of egregious cases alright. But with a population of >350,000,000 what do you expect? Of the 1,000+ deaths by police each year, less than 20 were unarmed black people. And most of these people resisted arrest/attacked police/tried to reach for their gun etc.

    There's a reason you mentioned Tamir Rice (from 2014!) and Philando Castile (from 2016!), and that's because, even with such a large population, these cases are extremely rare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    There's a handful of egregious cases alright. But with a population of >350,000,000 what do you expect? Of the 1,000+ deaths by police each year, less than 20 were unarmed black people. And most of these people resisted arrest/attacked police/tried to reach for their gun etc.

    There's a reason you mentioned Tamir Rice (from 2014!) and Philando Castile (from 2016!), and that's because, even with such a large population, these cases are extremely rare.

    And yet despite that rarity you choose to neglect their inclusion in your conclusive argument that seems to suggest that if you just comply with the police that’s going to address the whole problem. Clearly, it will not. While I don’t contend taking your fight to court is the least lethal option those who tend to argue “cops wouldn’t kill anyone if you just comply etc” are not helping the discussion, they are deliberately obfuscating incidents which warrant inclusion that shake our collective conscience. 9/11 only happened one, too. Acts of terrorism with airplanes are “extremely rare” but we also founded the Department of Homeland Security and turned the country around on its head for it. We started the TSA and systematically patting people down, x-raying shoes and eventually whole persons, over “extremely rare” follow up attempted incidents - despite a preponderance of evidence that the security could easily be bypassed and was effectively a facade.

    But when unconscionable tragedies occur in policing people just throw their hands up and say “welp what can you do we rely on the police so it’s not safe to reform them etc”


  • Site Banned Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ AmyMurphy22


    Let's await the bodycam before jumping to conclusions. However, the State of Emergency declaration is worrying - they don't normally do that. So I'm expecting the worst for this case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    Let's await the bodycam before jumping to conclusions. However, the State of Emergency declaration is worrying - they don't normally do that. So I'm expecting the worst for this case.

    Since last year several places have taken similar precautions, but it hasn't correlated in each case that the precaution indicated how the due process involved played out.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,784 ✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Overheal wrote: »
    Did Tamir Rice resist? Did Philando Castile?

    The cop didn't know that Tamir Rice had a toy gun. He was responding to a report of someone with a gun so he likely expected he was going to meet an armed person. Added to that, the gun that Tamir Rice had didn't have the mandated orange barrel tip that airsoft replicas are supposed to have. The cop said he saw Tamir Rice reaching for the gun in his waistband. Video footage is poor but it seems to show that Rice could have been reaching for the gun so I guess we'll have to give the cop the benefit of the doubt on that one. The cop was cleared by a Grand Jury and also by a DOJ investigation that concluded in 2020. They said that there wasn't enough evidence to charge him with a crime.

    Regarding Philando Castile, I'm not so much on the side of the cop. I think the cop overreacted but the jury thought otherwise. I don't agree with the jury verdict. The cop was so close that if he saw Castile's hand on a pistol, he had time to react. Maybe not so much time to react in the case of Tamir Rice (if the gun was real).


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,116 ✭✭✭✭ Penn


    Reports of the video say after police pulled up in front of him, Brown kept both hands on the steering wheel and in full view. Cops started firing anyway, and then Brown tried driving to escape because they were already firing at him.



  • Site Banned Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ AmyMurphy22


    Penn wrote: »
    Reports of the video say after police pulled up in front of him, Brown kept both hands on the steering wheel and in full view. Cops started firing anyway, and then Brown tried driving to escape because they were already firing at him.

    //twitter.com/jasonmarkswavy/status/1386764594362949639?s=19

    Thanks. They're going to court on Wednesday to release the video to the public. Brace yourselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭ twowheelsonly


    Overheal wrote: »
    No. It’s confirmation bias.

    Did Tamir Rice resist? Did Philando Castile?

    "In your opinion" it's confirmation bias or whatever the latest buzz word is.
    In my opinion, backed by figures, it's not.

    There are a little over 10 million arrests per year in the USA.
    How many of these end up in shootings ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings of a black man ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings of an unarmed compliant black man ?

    The answers will confirm whether your theory of confirmation bias stands up or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,116 ✭✭✭✭ Penn


    Thanks. They're going to court on Wednesday to release the video to the public. Brace yourselves.

    It's also only one bodycam, from one of the officers at the back, only 20 seconds, and seems to start once the shooting has already begun.

    Unfortunately, it really looks like the police are hesitant to show them any more because they're trying to hide something.


  • Site Banned Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ AmyMurphy22


    Penn wrote: »
    It's also only one bodycam, from one of the officers at the back, only 20 seconds, and seems to start once the shooting has already begun.

    Unfortunately, it really looks like the police are hesitant to show them any more because they're trying to hide something.

    Can't the court rule they have to release them? They should be released - its clearly in the public interest!


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    "In your opinion" it's confirmation bias or whatever the latest buzz word is.
    In my opinion, backed by figures, it's not.

    There are a little over 10 million arrests per year in the USA.
    How many of these end up in shootings ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings of a black man ? How many of these end up in fatal shootings of an unarmed compliant black man ?

    The answers will confirm whether your theory of confirmation bias stands up or not.

    Do these numbers excuse the behavior of any cop in an incident of police brutality? Didn’t I already mention how drastically America changed after 9/11 even though it only happened once? We can do better than “it doesn’t happen more than a couple thousand times a year so why should be attentive to deaths of suspects at the hands of police?”


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭ twowheelsonly


    Overheal wrote: »
    Do these numbers excuse the behavior of any cop in an incident of police brutality? Didn’t I already mention how drastically America changed after 9/11 even though it only happened once? We can do better than “it doesn’t happen more than a couple thousand times a year so why should be attentive to deaths of suspects at the hands of police?”

    My point is that it doesn't point to 'confirmation bias' as you were asserting. I'm not saying that any shooting is ok, just pointing out that there is zero evidence of confirmation bias when you break down the numbers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    My point is that it doesn't point to 'confirmation bias' as you were asserting. I'm not saying that any shooting is ok, just pointing out that there is zero evidence of confirmation bias when you break down the numbers.

    Please read the quote of the user I was responding to when I mentioned confirmation bias. I’m not sure it is related to what you are talking about. Police brutality can occur regardless of the criminal record of the victim.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 64,956 ✭✭✭✭ Overheal


    The family has finally seen *part* of one body camera video. 20 seconds, despite half a dozen or more officers on scene. Reportedly the incident shown displays Brown with both hands on his steering wheel while he is being shot multiple times. The vehicle was reportedly unable to go anywhere as it was blocked into the driveway by police.

    The family attorney referred to the killing as an execution. The police already were firing on Brown at the beginning of the 20 second clip, making it unclear what moment they began firing for or why.

    https://www.mediaite.com/tv/andrew-browns-family-decry-his-execution-by-police-after-finally-seeing-20-second-snippet-of-body-cam-video/


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