Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Did you know that Income tax is a 'temporary measure?'

Options
24567

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Same people who pay for them today will pay tomorrow...what's a magic tree got to do with it?!

    People pay via taxes, give them the option of no taxes is the money going to just appear from no where?


  • Options
    #33
    Mike Murdock
    Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    You really think if Irish people had the option to not pay taxes and voluntarily pay to run the country, they'd voluntarily pay to run the country?



  • Options
    #34
    antimatterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭antimatterx


    I have no problems paying income tax tbh. We live in a great country for most part, and if the alternative is huge medical and student debt like American, I think I'll take what Ireland is doing.

    However I do wish it was lower, (even eliminate USC, and increase the CGT threshold to 10K like England).


  • Options
    #35
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Actually, that would be robbery.

    So not pure theft at all


    I know you are a garda. So for a garda robbery/theft make have specific meanings and not mean the same.
    i'm a mere IT functionary - I see them as interchangeable perhaps out of ignorance.

    if I missed the point, can you elaborate.


  • Options
    #36
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,944 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Consumption tax is okay to levy..just told you that.

    It's theft by its very nature... government have no right to take a portion of my income...like why would they. Furthermore if I withold the threat of force aka prison time is real.

    so you want is to consume more, knowing that we re in a serious environmental crisis, largely due to over consumption?

    once again, its an automatic sign in, theres plenty of options available to you to reduce these amounts required to pay, this is not theft!
    sebdavis wrote: »
    I don’t have a problem with tax, if I pay tax then I get access to hospital, roads etc

    I do have a problem with social welfare and all that is dragged along with it, giving people the ability to be a career unemployed is and never was a good system.

    Year on year providing a pay raise while people who actually work are struggling is what has seriously gone wrong

    Child benefit? If you can’t afford to have children don’t have them. Why do you need a paid for having children?

    you need to look into the root causes of long term unemployment!

    all people employed work, its pretty basic economics! increasing pay is generally good for an economy, it increases the money supply, and ultimately the velocity of the money supply, particularly if it is spent back into the economy

    so most humans have been planned, including ourselves? what happens if 'mistakes' occur, do we send the kids back or something?
    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    You can have access to all those things without tax... you think if we didnt have tax society would just decide well the government won't build these things so I guess we don't want roads, schools, hospitals now...lol

    please show us a society that has done this successfully?
    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Always amusing to see the libertarian and NP economists embarrassing themselves

    whats an np?
    sebdavis wrote: »
    Magic money tree going to pay for them?

    well we could default to the magical private sector money trees of credit, as 08 was some craic!
    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Same people who pay for them today will pay tomorrow...what's a magic tree got to do with it?!

    'how are we gonna pay for it'?
    sebdavis wrote: »
    People pay via taxes, give them the option of no taxes is the money going to just appear from no where?

    well since money is effectively created from nothing, maybe!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    sebdavis wrote: »
    Are you having a laugh? People gladly pay? Not a chance in hell, not in ireland

    You would have a few people and the rest would sit back. Then when they get sick you would have a great parade about what a lovely fellow he is, his mammy was lovely and the hospitals should threat him. Ahh gawd the poor fellow....

    they would. And the parade would pay for it - collections galore - free choice if you pay for it.
    I wish we had a minimal state that ran the basics and there was accountability for waste or largesse.

    That's it. we can debate the minutiae later.


    But please can we burn the NGO sector.

    If you want to pay for free lentil soup for multi racial lesbians that's fine - pay for it out of your own cash.
    Id' rather the state wasn't spunking my earned monies on such sh1thawery but if you do , do it voluntarily


  • Options
    #38
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,577 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    The idea that a country like Ireland would rely on voluntary contributions from its residents to fund the state's services and infrastructure is madness. Beyond even libertarian delusion.

    Just look at what happened to Irish Water.

    just look at the amount of people who don't bother paying their own mortgate.

    Just look at the amount of people who won't pay for their own bins.

    People who won't even pay for themselves, never mind voluntarily contributing to pay for others.


  • Options
    #39
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    One of the primary purposes of taxes is to ensure demand for the national currency, so that it is enforced as the dominant currency.

    If everyone has to pay some portion of income tax, and those taxes are denominated in Euro's - then that will ground demand for the Euro, ensuring it is the dominant currency.

    We don't actually need Income Tax for that, though - some economists support replacing it with land or property tax instead, as that would fulfill the same purpose.

    That's not the only role for income tax, though - it also plays a role in managing income/wealth inequality - so we would either want to keep it and set it at a very high starting threshold (and treat capital gains as income as well), or we would want to get rid of it entirely and implement a Maximum Wage (which doesn't have to be fixed, it can be a multiple of the lowest wage in a business).

    We are a long way away from being able to consider such tax reforms, though. Countries need to be in control of their own currency and no longer view taxes as 'funding' their government, to start seeing these shifts in perspective - and we aren't.


  • Options
    #40
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,629 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    paw patrol wrote: »
    But please can we burn the NGO sector.
    ignoring your ludicrous parodying of the NGO sector, a lot of that sector exists precisely because of the state *not* providing services they should provide. so we could onboard their tasks, but then it'd solidify the taxpayer footing the bill.
    and this is as it should be.


  • Options
    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    Consumption tax is okay to levy..just told you that.

    It's theft by its very nature... government have no right to take a portion of my income...like why would they. Furthermore if I withold the threat of force aka prison time is real.

    They have that tight because in democratic society we’ve agreed to chip in. Saying income tax is theft is like saying that paying an agreed management fee is theft.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    At least they got rid of USC like they promised




    oh wait

    I promised myself the next time I vote in a GE is when one of them is going to rid us of that. I don’t think I’ll ever have to go to the bother of registering again.


  • Options
    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    You can have access to all those things without tax... you think if we didnt have tax society would just decide well the government won't build these things so I guess we don't want roads, schools, hospitals now...lol

    Er, yes? Or they would be prohibitively expensive for most. In many places private enterprise wouldn’t bother


  • Options
    #44
    ThreeGreens
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭ThreeGreens


    If taxes were abolished today, then one of two things would happen.

    1. You'd have a whole load of additional charges that would suck up your newly freed income (such as education charges, tolls on roads, private security, additional medical costs and insurance), or
    2. Your salary would be reduced, because someone else would be willing to do the job for less, because they still have the same take home pay.

    In the end, you'd not be financially better off, and we'd need to come up with a new system for dividing up shared costs. Building a road would be next to impossible without a central government (which needs to be funded) to organise it. Imaging trying to agree that between a private company and the many land owners who need to sell some of their land to build the road on!


  • Options
    #45
    Mike Murdock
    Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Mike Murdock


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    ignoring your ludicrous parodying of the NGO sector, a lot of that sector exists precisely because of the state *not* providing services they should provide. so we could onboard their tasks, but then it'd solidify the taxpayer footing the bill.
    and this is as it should be.

    The sector is full of organisations that duplicate each other's work.
    A culling is needed.


  • Options
    #46
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    RulesOfNature wrote: »

    I wonder what temporary measures right now will become permanent too?

    You mean like schools, hospitals, roads, train lines etc?


  • Options
    #47
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,629 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mike Murdock wrote: »
    The sector is full of organisations that duplicate each other's work.
    A culling is needed.
    or, as i said, maybe the government need to take on the tasks (where they should) and make the organisations/charities irrelevant.
    that is the funny thing about a lot of these organisations - their ultimate aim is that they should cease to need to exist.


  • Options
    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The online libertarian thing is well dead by now. Lads who watched a video about Hayek on YouTube and got to page 12 of some Ayn Rand borefest suddenly thought they had all the answers. Very 2012.

    They’ve moved on to cryptocurrency and hating feminists these days.


  • Options
    #49
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    They went away while Trump was in office, now the money is flowing into astroturfing again.


  • Options
    #50
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Always amusing to see the libertarian and NP economists embarrassing themselves
    There is nothing to stop you from correcting everyone's mistakes, Paschal Donohoe.


  • Options
    #51
    Glaceon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,028 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    whats an np?
    National Party I assume?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,944 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Glaceon wrote: »
    National Party I assume?

    oh those ar$eholes!


  • Options
    #53
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    There are plenty countries with zero income tax.
    Many small island havens, but also Saudi Arabi, Qatar, Somalia and Western Sahara.


  • Options
    #54
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    ignoring your ludicrous parodying of the NGO sector, a lot of that sector exists precisely because of the state *not* providing services they should provide. so we could onboard their tasks, but then it'd solidify the taxpayer footing the bill.
    and this is as it should be.

    it was a good parody though. :pac:

    Perhaps the state needs to run essential services and non essential should rely on people donating to causes they want too. The state should stop farming essential work to for profits.

    Anyway much of that NGO work isn't essential , we all know it.


  • Options
    #55
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,361 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    biko wrote: »
    There are plenty countries with zero income tax.
    Many small island havens, but also Saudi Arabi, Qatar, Somalia and Western Sahara.

    I wouldn't want to live in any of those four countries. Rather take my chances on Fastnet.


  • Options
    #56
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,936 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    3DataModem wrote: »
    All taxation is theft, but it is theft in service of the social contract.

    We want roads, hospitals, schools, and social welfare for the less fortunate, medicine for the sick and dying, and wheelchairs for the disabled. We want to ensure that what property we have is secure (police/military), and that we have recourse when someone does us wrong (courts), and we want to make sure that people beyond their working age can have their basic living needs met (pensions).

    As a society we have agreed tacitly to maintain this "theft under duress" system because life will generally be better for all if we do so. There's horrible waste, and horrible inefficiencies (especially in democracies) but most people generally accept this system has enough fairness and enough benefit to be sustainable, and is better than chaos.

    If you are interested in where Irish tax goes, take a look: https://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/1721503/original/?width=630&version=1721503

    That link is one section of our tax only, not all of it.

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/ is more accurate, and you'll notice a fair share of crap there that you're wondering where the value for money is when you go into it.


  • Options
    #57
    sebdavis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭sebdavis


    osarusan wrote: »
    The idea that a country like Ireland would rely on voluntary contributions from its residents to fund the state's services and infrastructure is madness. Beyond even libertarian delusion.

    Just look at what happened to Irish Water.

    just look at the amount of people who don't bother paying their own mortgate.

    Just look at the amount of people who won't pay for their own bins.

    People who won't even pay for themselves, never mind voluntarily contributing to pay for others.

    People in Ireland have no problem paying millions over the course of their life on alcohol, cigs etc,. Ask them to pay for a bit of water and they lose the plot.

    Imagine trying to get a few people to pay for the roads, they would drive over the fields instead. Just look at cyclist who use the road yet demand zero tax. Excellent example of who would actually pay for anything


  • Options
    #58
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,944 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    titan18 wrote: »
    That link is one section of our tax only, not all of it.

    https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/ is more accurate, and you'll notice a fair share of crap there that you're wondering where the value for money is when you go into it.

    most peoples income goes towards their property needs, the fire sectors(finance, insurance, and real estate), are taking most peoples hard earned money
    sebdavis wrote: »
    People in Ireland have no problem paying millions over the course of their life on alcohol, cigs etc,. Ask them to pay for a bit of water and they lose the plot.

    Imagine trying to get a few people to pay for the roads, they would drive over the fields instead. Just look at cyclist who use the road yet demand zero tax. Excellent example of who would actually pay for anything

    you ll actually find most cyclists also pay road tax


  • Options
    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    paw patrol wrote: »
    I know you are a garda. So for a garda robbery/theft make have specific meanings and not mean the same.
    i'm a mere IT functionary - I see them as interchangeable perhaps out of ignorance.

    if I missed the point, can you elaborate.

    You were the one defining an act.


  • Options
    #60
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,629 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ah here, that other thread is now becoming contagious...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    im in favour of a 20% flat tax myself including on corporations

    never going to happen though , flat taxes make politicians looks redundant


Advertisement