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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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Comments

  • #1712
    MyLove4Satan
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    Elessar wrote: »
    I dunno tbh. The Irish love a sob story. I reckon once the threat of CPOs raise their heads again you'll see parish politics at its finest as TDs and other representatives get behind their constituents and decry the big bad metro for threatening to evict 'vulnerable' people from their homes, most of whom won't get anywhere close to them again for any sort of price (I'm talking the apartments here).

    I think there will be enormous pressure to reroute metro to avoid this at all costs and the government will have to bend. This is Ireland remember, the only country in the world where the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

    I'll eat my hat if the above doesn't happen.




    The Joe Duffy on speed dial types who don't really have any real feelings, or understanding about what they are so distraught about. They just do it as a national sport. I went to a public meeting once and this woman stands up and announces - like she is an expert - "an underground rail line is over-engineering for Dublin." There was a burst of applause from the crowd, and I stood up and replied that there were numerous cities around the world smaller and less populated than Dublin with sometimes multiple underground lines. She looked at me like I had just announced I was a sex offender or serial killer, and then sits down waving me off with 'if you are going to be rude I am not talking with you.' Followed by an evening of 'I agree with that woman who says Dublin is too small for Metros or Underground DARTS.' Not one of them had the slightest clue what they were on about. Yet so self-assured they were in the right and any counter-debate was some kind of aggression. They kept thinking that there is only London and New York and they are the right size for underground rail. Yet acted like they knew it all.

    I remember coming out of the meeting deeply depressed as I knew these are the ones the politicians and media listen to.


  • #1713
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,299 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    MyLove4Satan wrote: »
    The Joe Duffy on speed dial types who don't really have any real feelings, or understanding about what they are so distraught about. They just do it as a national sport. I went to a public meeting once and this woman stands up and announces - like she is an expert - "an underground rail line is over-engineering for Dublin." There was a burst of applause from the crowd, and I stood up and replied that there were numerous cities around the world smaller and less populated than Dublin with sometimes multiple underground lines. She looked at me like I had just announced I was a sex offender or serial killer, and then sits down waving me off with 'if you are going to be rude I am not talking with you.' Followed by an evening of 'I agree with that woman who says Dublin is too small for Metros or Underground DARTS.' Not one of them had the slightest clue what they were on about. Yet so self-assured they were in the right and any counter-debate was some kind of aggression. They kept thinking that there is only London and New York and they are the right size for underground rail. Yet acted like they knew it all.

    I remember coming out of the meeting deeply depressed as I knew these are the ones the politicians and media listen to.

    Where these people at this local meeting from a well off area that was being served by the metro? They sound to me like a true definition of a NIMBY type that are so against any positive development that brings direct & indirect benefits to their local community.

    When you were at this meeting. Was it one for being against MN or a recent one for going against Metrolink?

    Did the people who attend say anything constructive about the type of effects the project that it would bring to their own homes & locality?


  • #1714
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,342 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    TII have issued a PIN for tender for Client Partner Support Services. Full contract notice to be published in June subject to DTTAS approval of preliminary business case. Estimated value is €145m.

    The PIN says Contract Notice for Project Delivery Partner will be issued in Q1 2022. Is this the tender notice for the construction contract?

    Getting closer by the day.

    https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/187257/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE


  • #1715
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,701 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    marno21 wrote: »
    The PIN says Contract Notice for Project Delivery Partner will be issued in Q1 2022. Is this the tender notice for the construction contract?

    It was reported previously that there would be three construction contracts, a systems contract and a PPP for rolling stock so hard to know where a Project Delivery Partner would fit in with all that.


  • #1716
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    There will be three main construction contracts. Estuary-Airport, Airport-Northwood and Northwood-Charlemont. These are for tunneling, stations, bridges etc.

    The delivery partner is a PPP contract for the metro system provider and operator. Like if Transdev was involved in Luas construction. They will provide rail systems and infrastructure including tracks, power, rolling stock etc. and will go on to maintain and operate it on behalf of NTA/TII.

    Plus enabling works and advance works contracts.


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  • #1717
    yascaoimhin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    Dublin Commuter Coalition have done a thread of all the interesting tidbits of information released in the Tender
    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1385685850642653185


  • #1718
    MagaBot
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭MagaBot


    yascaoimhin wrote: »
    Dublin Commuter Coalition have done a thread of all the interesting tidbits of information released in the Tender
    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1385685850642653185

    You mean... you did? 😂


  • #1719
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    MagaBot wrote: »
    You mean... you did? 😂

    Haha, there's more than one running it now, so perhaps "we" is more appropriate. Even so, I can see why someone might want to separate out their accounts, both DCC and yascaoimhin get a ridiculous amount of grief online


  • #1720
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    yascaoimhin wrote: »
    Dublin Commuter Coalition have done a thread of all the interesting tidbits of information released in the Tender
    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1385685850642653185
    Only three stations will have two entrances.
    Tara Street
    O'Connell Street and
    Charlemont
    That's a bit disappointing. I guess it saves money, but it reduces the options for people using it, and it probably also reduces the options if there's an emergency.


  • #1721
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,701 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Rulmeq wrote: »
    That's a bit disappointing. I guess it saves money, but it reduces the options for people using it, and it probably also reduces the options if there's an emergency.

    The section of the Swords station shows escalators one end and stairs the other, so maybe entrances doesn't count emergency exits or else the cut and cover section may be different.

    It should be possible to scale the platform length from a section as heights are given, looks like 60m platforms in a 90/100m station box to me.


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  • #1722
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The section of the Swords station shows escalators one end and stairs the other, so maybe entrances doesn't count emergency exits or else the cut and cover section may be different.

    It should be possible to scale the platform length from a section as heights are given, looks like 60m platforms in a 90/100m station box to me.

    Huh, you just jogged my memory there, and I went and checked it out. The Preferred Route description for the Northwood station says this:
    The station will now sit directly under the junction of the R108 and Northwood Avenue - the development entrance. This will allow passengers to access the station from either side of the R108 without having to cross a busy road. This is far more convenient, especially to those living opposite Northwood Avenue.

    I wonder if they changed it, or if the tender is using a different definition of entrance or something admin like that.


  • #1723
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,495 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I suppose it could be a different definition of entrance - eg. how many entrance concourses are there, where two surface entrances converge to the same entrance concourse?

    I don’t know if I’d be confident in that definition though, you’d have to think the word entrance refers to the inside to outside access points.


  • #1724
    Shedite27
    Registered Users Posts: 9,359 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I suppose it could be a different definition of entrance - eg. how many entrance concourses are there, where two surface entrances converge to the same entrance concourse?

    I don’t know if I’d be confident in that definition though, you’d have to think the word entrance refers to the inside to outside access points.
    That’s my reading of it too.

    The tweet before it describes 3 elevator system to get from group level to the trains. Northwood and most will have a few entrances that get to that one elevator system. The dual ones will have elevator systems at both ends of the station.

    And I’m fairly sure they’re not counting emergency exits. There’s no way they’d be allowed build a underground station with only one way out


  • #1725
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,495 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    If you think of Pearse Station, as an example, most people would say that it has just one Westland Row entrance.

    But there are two sets of doors (which some would call entrances!) separated by about 15m.

    If you take that same layout and apply it to an underground station, you could get something that is described as having one entrance, but two actual openings, one on either side of a road.

    This may be clutching at straws!


  • #1726
    Fugazifan
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Fugazifan


    Dats me wrote: »
    I know you probably have a vested interest in this and your only objective is to stop your apartment in the city centre being knocked down. It's blatantly clear by looking at the map that the metro station should be right beside the rail station. Suggesting there should be a few hundred metres between the stations is frankly ridiculous.

    I presume this CPO will make you all millionaires and if there's 78 apartments that's a lot of money for TII even before you think that it's actual people picking the route who I'm sure care deeply. They just think this is the best route. Tbh he suggestion that TII are engaging in conspiracy to knock down college gate makes you look a but unhinged.

    Everyone on this forum just wants the city to have a transport system that is fit for purpose. There was a lot of sympathy about this issue when it first arose but suggesting that the Tara Street-Metro interchange should be terrible with a decent walk between the station to avoid annoying 100 people is so silly. The city council have said they're happy enough that the pool will.be replaces, suggesting five years without a swimming pool at that exact site is worth butchering the most important station on a piece of national infrastructure like the metro...

    As a final aside to my rant, if they did build it on Hawkins House say, you'd have three(?) years of station building and then the years of building Hawkins House on top of that - right beside you, I'm sure you've thought about this but the money and an apartment somewhere else could better?
    Dats me...
    A great quote :
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim."
    Gustave Le Bon

    I think you should read the FOI Commission findings, no one is saying there is a conspiracy, but they also have not proven their case and it looks like they have been shown to be wanting.

    I don't know how you think you "know".
    I'm not an owner of College gate or renting.
    I think it's fair to say everyone has an agenda,what is yours?
    I don't agree with your opinion that it is worth knocking down a vitally important piece of public infrastructure, without alternative engineering solutions being explored.
    Markievicz Leisure Centre is used by commuters, local communities and schools, by every generation and class from all over Dublin.
    That is not 100 people.
    How is it blatantly clear from the map? Are you an engineer?
    How do you know the map is even correct given what we have seen from TII's unwillingness to release information?
    Not wanting a link between the stations was never a reason discussed by them in Appendix M, which you should also familiarise yourself with.


  • #1727
    Kevtherev1
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    As regards collage gate and the leisure centre, it doesn't matter the number of people who use and live there.

    The project requires the space for construction of station and tunnel, project cannot proceed without access to that construction space. Its compulsory removal of people who live there. Everybody will be compensated with above market value price for each apartment and a new leisure centre after construction. The choice is take the fair state offer the easy way or the hard way. End of discussion.


  • #1728
    Fugazifan
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Fugazifan


    yascaoimhin wrote: »
    Dublin Commuter Coalition have done a thread of all the interesting tidbits of information released in the Tender
    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1385685850642653185

    I'm just wondering how the number of entrances are known given that the final route has yet to be decided apparently?


  • #1729
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,495 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Wasn’t the offer even more generous than that, in that they’re going to offer any renters in the block a year’s rent AND relocation services or something? That’s huge


  • #1730
    Fugazifan
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Fugazifan


    Kevtherev1 wrote: »
    As regards collage gate and the leisure centre, it doesn't matter the number of people who use and live there.

    The project requires the space for construction of station and tunnel, project cannot proceed without access to that construction space. Its compulsory removal of people who live there. Everybody will be compensated with above market value price for each apartment and a new leisure centre after construction. The choice is take the fair state offer the easy way or the hard way. End of discussion.

    Why does it not matter? That's just your opinion.
    I and many others who might be affected by the loss of the pool and leisure centre say that it does matter.
    It all depends on where you decide the construction space should be, that's the whole point!
    There is nothing proposed regarding a new Leisure Centre after completion and also no guarantee of above market price for anything, none of that is decided.
    I think it's important that due diligence is carried out on this massive infrastructural project, with clear and specific technical information to support any choices, that is not what Appendix M or the Information Commission result suggests.


  • #1731
    Fugazifan
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Fugazifan


    Kevtherev1 wrote: »
    As regards collage gate and the leisure centre, it doesn't matter the number of people who use and live there.

    The project requires the space for construction of station and tunnel, project cannot proceed without access to that construction space. Its compulsory removal of people who live there. Everybody will be compensated with above market value price for each apartment and a new leisure centre after construction. The choice is take the fair state offer the easy way or the hard way. End of discussion.

    You would feel at home in Putin's Russia..

    Why does it not matter? That's just your opinion.
    I and many others who might be affected by the loss of the pool and leisure centre say that it does matter.
    It all depends on where you decide the construction space should be, that's the whole point!
    There is nothing proposed regarding a new Leisure Centre after completion and also no guarantee of above market price for anything, none of that is decided.
    I think it's important that due diligence is carried out on this massive infrastructural project, with clear and specific technical information to support any choices, that is not what Appendix M or the Information Commission result suggests.


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  • #1732
    Fugazifan
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Fugazifan


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Wasn’t the offer even more generous than that, in that they’re going to offer any renters in the block a year’s rent AND relocation services or something? That’s huge

    Or something ?


  • #1733
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Fugazifan wrote: »
    I'm just wondering how the number of entrances are known given that the final route has yet to be decided apparently?

    "The final route is yet to be decided" ≠ "We don't know a single thing about the route and will decide everything on the day we submit the railway order"


  • #1734
    yascaoimhin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    Fugazifan wrote: »
    I'm just wondering how the number of entrances are known given that the final route has yet to be decided apparently?

    Who said we don't know the final route?


  • #1735
    yascaoimhin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    New Images of Mater Metrolink station

    https://twitter.com/CiaranLyng/status/1386365708708241410


  • #1736
    ricimaki
    Registered Users Posts: 650 ✭✭✭ricimaki


    yascaoimhin wrote: »
    New Images of Mater Metrolink station
    https://twitter.com/CiaranLyng/status/1386365708708241410

    Its best to just paste the Tweet directly.


  • #1737
    yascaoimhin
    Registered Users Posts: 143 ✭✭yascaoimhin


    ricimaki wrote: »
    Its best to just paste the Tweet directly.

    Image linking is just not working for me


  • #1738
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    @Fugazifan

    What, exactly, was missing or lacking in Appendix M? I've read through it several times now, and I'm wondering what it doesn't answer for you? It's pretty in-depth, at least in my opinion.


  • #1739
    Fugazifan
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Fugazifan


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Wasn’t the offer even more generous than that, in that they’re going to offer any renters in the block a year’s rent AND relocation services or something? That’s huge

    Or something ?


  • #1740
    Fugazifan
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Fugazifan


    CatInABox wrote: »
    @Fugazifan

    What, exactly, was missing or lacking in Appendix M? I've read through it several times now, and I'm wondering what it doesn't answer for you? It's pretty in-depth, at least in my opinion.

    Hi CatInABox,

    I'm specifically referring to Tara Street.

    Regarding the OIC's finding on FOI request, I suppose it depends on what level of detail you require and the audience it is intended for, some higher level details that could be independently verified would be reasonable to ask? See link:

    https://www.oic.ie/decisions/mr-x-and-transport-infras-2/index.xml

    Thanks


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  • #1741
    Fugazifan
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭Fugazifan


    yascaoimhin wrote: »
    Who said we don't know the final route?

    It seems clear that they have decided it, however, This is what TII informed the Office of the Information Commissioner:

    "TII says that no final decision on the Metrolink route has been made and deliberations remain ongoing, including in relation to the proposed station at Tara Street"

    https://www.oic.ie/decisions/mr-x-and-transport-infras-2/index.xml

    So I don't know ??


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