Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

marno21

https://twitter.com/dublincommuters/status/1367227493766340613?s=21

Pete_Cavan

Fantastic. Hopefully BIM utilisation will ensure a more comprehensive design which is also easily adaptable, smoothing the planning process and thereafter allowing them progress to construction.

noelfirl

marno21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dublincommuters/status/1367227493766340613?s=21

*Grinds teeth loudly*

I flinch slightly at the statement that Metrolink's main goal is to "deliver an integrated public transport system" when the station on St. Stephen's Green is on the opposite side of the Green to the Luas stop (and yes, I know there are longer interchange distances at multiple other points on the planet, just still)...

Sam Russell

noelfirl wrote: »

*Grinds teeth loudly*

I flinch slightly at the statement that Metrolink's main goal is to "deliver an integrated public transport system" when the station on St. Stephen's Green is on the opposite side of the Green to the Luas stop...

But it is at the same place at Charlemont.

noelfirl

Sam Russell wrote: »

But it is at the same place at Charlemont.

Fair point.

(I guess I'm just delusionally holding out the final hope of Stephen's Green as a proper multi-modal-including-DART interchange. And yes, I know that's even more of a delusion since DART+ plonked a surface station at Spencer Dock)

Amirani

Sam Russell wrote: »

But it is at the same place at Charlemont.

And same place as the Dart at Tara (close to Luas here also).

With Dart Underground being shelved, perhaps indefinitely, making a Dart interchange at Tara instead of Stephen's Green made much more sense.

AngryLips

noelfirl wrote: »

*Grinds teeth loudly*

I flinch slightly at the statement that Metrolink's main goal is to "deliver an integrated public transport system" when the station on St. Stephen's Green is on the opposite side of the Green to the Luas stop (and yes, I know there are longer interchange distances at multiple other points on the planet, just still)...

Why improve on the very high standard set by the interchange between Green and Red Luas lines? :rolleyes:

roadmaster

maybe its common with modern undergrounds but like the safety system in the video where the track cant be encroached on from the platform

p_haugh

I could be wrong here, but isn't the reason that the Stephens green station isn't linked up to the tram stop due to a sewer being in the way and also a stop in that location wouldnt suit the alignment needed to get from Tara to charlemont?

MJohnston

roadmaster wrote: »

maybe its common with modern undergrounds but like the safety system in the video where the track cant be encroached on from the platform

That is specifically because Metro is designed to be a driverless system. The above-ground stations will have some automated barriers too.

cgcsb

A 400m walk through a park is a decent interchange. If DART U is built I'm sure an underground link between the two will also be possible.

riddlinrussell

cgcsb wrote: »

A 400m walk through a park is a decent interchange. If DART U is built I'm sure an underground link between the two will also be possible.

If DART U still takes the Stephen's Green routing then that station would basically open to the Luas at one end and the Metro at the other, given the length of the platforms. That said depending on curves etc Tara/Trinity interchange might be more likely (and has been discussed previously)

The Automated doors are definitely for Automated trains, but are definitely a modern metro thing generally, the Jubilee line in London has them in places like Canary Wharf.

Pete_Cavan

p_haugh wrote: »

I could be wrong here, but isn't the reason that the Stephens green station isn't linked up to the tram stop due to a sewer being in the way and also a stop in that location wouldnt suit the alignment needed to get from Tara to charlemont?

The sewer is along the canal limiting the vertical alignment and preventing Metro surfacing at Charlemont. It doesn't affect the horizontal alignment at SSG so having the station on the other side of the Green is in theory possible but doing so would require digging up part of the Green and/or disruption to the existing Green Line. As others have said, the proposed interchange is not that big an issue and the change could happen one stop further north or south if people preferred. The current location is also on a straighter line between Tara and Charlemont, the previous station was based on the next station north being at OCB and no station further south so that station location may not fit with the new curvature.

AngryLips

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The sewer is along the canal limiting the vertical alignment and preventing Metro surfacing at Charlemont. It doesn't affect the horizontal alignment at SSG so having the station on the other side of the Green is in theory possible but doing so would require digging up part of the Green and/or disruption to the existing Green Line. As others have said, the proposed interchange is not that big an issue and the change could happen one stop further north or south if people preferred. The current location is also on a straighter line between Tara and Charlemont, the previous station was based on the next station north being at OCB and no station further south so that station location may not fit with the new curvature.

It's still a shame that it's on the wrong side of the green compared to previous plans. Catchment is key here and a distance like that will deter shorter journeys on MN within the city core. For example, who is put off using Luas to hop to the other side of the city centre when traveling south? The same disincentive doesn't really happen for the same journey traveling north ...the reason? Marlborough Luas stop is on the wrong side of Henry Street if you're looking to go south whereas OCS stop is smack bang where you want to get off.

Pete_Cavan

AngryLips wrote: »

It's still a shame that it's on the wrong side of the green compared to previous plans. Catchment is key here and a distance like that will deter shorter journeys on MN within the city core. For example, who is put off using Luas to hop to the other side of the city centre when traveling south? The same disincentive doesn't really happen for the same journey traveling north ...the reason? Marlborough Luas stop is on the wrong side of Henry Street if you're looking to go south whereas OCS stop is smack bang where you want to get off.

I wouldn't consider it the wrong side of the Green, the station is to serve the entire south city centre and would do that equally well from any side of SSG. One side might be a bit more convenient for some people but that will equally be less convenient for others. A 5 minute walk isn't an issue really. You can't compare Metro journeys, which intended for longer distances, to people using Luas for short hops within the city centre. Between SSG and north OCS, there are 3 Luas stops but will only be 3 Metro stops, that is just the nature of the different systems. Metro is intended to facilitate longer journeys quicker, i.e. airport to city centre, the trade off for that fast journey is having to walk a bit further when you get off compared to a tram system.

LXFlyer

AngryLips wrote: »

It's still a shame that it's on the wrong side of the green compared to previous plans. Catchment is key here and a distance like that will deter shorter journeys on MN within the city core. For example, who is put off using Luas to hop to the other side of the city centre when traveling south? The same disincentive doesn't really happen for the same journey traveling north ...the reason? Marlborough Luas stop is on the wrong side of Henry Street if you're looking to go south whereas OCS stop is smack bang where you want to get off.

This is a bit daft.

People have managed to walk to Kildare St and St Stephen’s Green East to catch Stillorgan Road buses and to the George’s Street corridor for Rathmines & the SCR for years.

Around O’Connell Street people manage to walk to Lower Abbey St to get their Howth Road bus home, and Eden Quay for the Malahide Road.

Are you seriously suggesting that LUAS users cannot cope with a *shorter* walk than bus users?

SSG East will also provide a more direct connection with bus routes post-BusConnects, with three spines using that side of the Green, serving southeast, south and southwest Dublin.

MJohnston

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The sewer is along the canal limiting the vertical alignment and preventing Metro surfacing at Charlemont. It doesn't affect the horizontal alignment at SSG so having the station on the other side of the Green is in theory possible but doing so would require digging up part of the Green and/or disruption to the existing Green Line. As others have said, the proposed interchange is not that big an issue and the change could happen one stop further north or south if people preferred. The current location is also on a straighter line between Tara and Charlemont, the previous station was based on the next station north being at OCB and no station further south so that station location may not fit with the new curvature.

No, if you look at the Preferred Route report they *do* mention a major sewer as a reason why they moved the SSG slightly from the Emerging Preferred Route location. So there is definitely one in the SSG vicinity too.

VonLuck

It's a 350m walk through the park. 4 minutes to get from one side to the other. There are longer travel times between platforms in the same station for the London underground. A non-issue in my opinion.

Sam Russell

VonLuck wrote: »

It's a 350m walk through the park. 4 minutes to get from one side to the other. There are longer travel times between platforms in the same station for the London underground. A non-issue in my opinion.

It is a non issue if they build it - anyway but soon.

Sam Russell

VonLuck wrote: »

It's a 350m walk through the park. 4 minutes to get from one side to the other. There are longer travel times between platforms in the same station for the London underground. A non-issue in my opinion.

It is a non issue if they build it - anyway but soon.

BonnieSituation

Well it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have an underpass to at least "psychologically" link them when then time comes.

But as with everything, let's get it built first and we can fix it after.

donvito99

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well it wouldn't be a bad Idea to have an underpass to at least "psychologically" link them when then time comes.

But as with everything, let's get it built first and we can fix it after.

It would probably be easier and cheaper to scrap the existing SSG Luas stop and bring the line the other way around the Green and back to Harcourt St from Stephen's Green South.

Pete_Cavan

MJohnston wrote: »

No, if you look at the Preferred Route report they *do* mention a major sewer as a reason why they moved the SSG slightly from the Emerging Preferred Route location. So there is definitely one in the SSG vicinity too.

Are you talking about this in the Preferred Route report;

7.16. St Stephen’s Green
This station will be located as previously proposed at St Stephen’s Green East.
We’re moving the station back slightly from Merrion Row to allow Hume Street
to remain open during construction easing the impact on traffic. We’re also
moving it further west under St Stephen’s Green to avoid closing the road during construction and avoid a major sewer that would otherwise require diversion. We are consulting closely with Dublin City Council and the Office Of Public Works on this proposal.

That relates to its specific positioning on SSG East, not a reason why the station isn't to be located closer to the existing SSG Luas stop, which is what I was replying to.

yascaoimhin

Amirani wrote: »

With Dart Underground being shelved, perhaps indefinitely

Sorry what? It's still part of the Strategy and literally, every major party wants it to be expedited. We could even get it before 2035

BonnieSituation

donvito99 wrote: »

It would probably be easier and cheaper to scrap the existing SSG Luas stop and bring the line the other way around the Green and back to Harcourt St from Stephen's Green South.

It would be cheaper to build that than to build a cut and cover tunnel in a park?

Nah, it wouldn't.

LXFlyer

There is no need to change the LUAS around at all - it will link with Metrolink at Charlemont.

People can easily walk around the Green if necessary as they do for the bus service as it is.

BonnieSituation

LXFlyer wrote: »

There is no need to change the LUAS around at all - it will link with Metrolink at Charlemont.

People can easily walk around the Green if necessary as they do for the bus service as it is.

Absolutely.

As I have posted on here before, I worked on the mapping for the initial preferred route report. It's a no brainer to have the SSG East Station where it is.

salmocab

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Absolutely.

As I have posted on here before, I worked on the mapping for the initial preferred route report. It's a no brainer to have the SSG East Station where it is.

I would have thought that the east side is closer to a greater concentration of office anyway, not that it’s a particularly big deal anyway.
I work on hatch street and I take the luas to work from the south side normally so this doesn’t affect me but my pal in work live in NCD so he can drive to the P&R get the metro to charlemont and come back one stop on the luas or walk.

Amirani

yascaoimhin wrote: »

Sorry what? It's still part of the Strategy and literally, every major party wants it to be expedited. We could even get it before 2035

Shelved means it's not currently happening. Are you suggesting otherwise and that work is actually ongoing?

We all know it's in the strategy. Lots of things have been in lots of strategies and yet have never happened. Until there's actual movement on it, then excuse me for not having the same optimism as you do about getting Dart Underground before 2035.

Sam Russell

Mod: Dart Underground is off topic for this thread. There are other threads to discuss it in.