Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

17-04-2021 04:01PM

titan18 wrote: »

So the same argument for why teachers and guards etc should be prioritized which the government threw out. They've a higher chance of catching it due to their work environments and if they do catch it, a very big chance of having a mass spread coming out of it.

The younger cohort only have a chance of spreading it cos they're ignoring the restrictions. People like teachers and guards can be obeying restrictions and still have a high chance of spreading it.

Exactly.

This is a non story.

Would the public tolerate an 18 year old vaccinated before a 30 year old Gardai.

Donnelly doesn't have an idea of how to read a room.

I'm shocked how he was ever elected.

The story will be dead within a week.

Russman · 17-04-2021 04:02PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

A minister doesn't need to get the backing of his cabinet colleagues to ask his own department to report on something to him. He'd then take that report to cabinet where it could be consider and could very well be dismissed.

As much as he's gone about it the wrong way by saying it in an interview with the Times he's not actually done anything wrong in terms or informing the cabinet.

Now I'm not defending him here because its gone public in a messy manner and an unneeded manner but the rational behind his request to the department to at least look into it has fairly sound basis.

You’re spot on, but a politician with even an ounce of savvy would know this wasn’t a kite to fly at this moment in the rollout. A bit of joined up thinking from him wouldn’t go amiss. By all means have the dept look at it behind the scenes, but broadcasting it to the world was next level stupid given the changes in the plan a couple of weeks earlier and the frenzy for a few days after.

iamwhoiam · 17-04-2021 04:07PM

Russman wrote: »

You’re spot on, but a politician with even an ounce of savvy would know this wasn’t a kite to fly at this moment in the rollout. A bit of joined up thinking from him wouldn’t go amiss. By all means have the dept look at it behind the scenes, but broadcasting it to the world was next level stupid given the changes in the plan a couple of weeks earlier and the frenzy for a few days after.

Absolutely . He read the public so wrong . We have just come to terms with a change in plan and understanding the reasons behind going by age
And Donnelly completely threw a spanner in the works and rattled people all over again
We need strong leadership and a feeling that all departments working together and getting this job done

Maxface · 17-04-2021 04:10PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I thought Dublin fire brigade got vaccinated? Why wouldn’t other fire brigades?

Dublin have been, I remember they had to cause a fuss to get them. They operate the ambulance service there so only right.

17-04-2021 04:17PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely . He read the public so wrong . We have just come to terms with a change in plan and understanding the reasons behind going by age
And Donnelly completely threw a spanner in the works and rattled people all over again
We need strong leadership and a feeling that all departments working together and getting this job done

Hes just a bad politician that people should ignore.

He can't actually do much in fairness.

Sticks and stones.

Compared to Swann in NI or Hancock in England he really is awful.

It was a very bad decision of the coalition to change health minister last summer.

Probably their worst decision.

crossman47 · 17-04-2021 04:17PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Absolutely . He read the public so wrong . We have just come to terms with a change in plan and understanding the reasons behind going by age
And Donnelly completely threw a spanner in the works and rattled people all over again
We need strong leadership and a feeling that all departments working together and getting this job done

Dead right. I know a primary teacher who has never been militant and went along with the age cohort idea. This morning, for the first time, she was angry. She and colleagues have been keeping the show on the road despite staff shortages arising from others vulnerable or pregnant not being in school. Now she feels, despite all the platitudes from Foley, they are getting no regard at all.

TomOnBoard · 17-04-2021 04:22PM

titan18 wrote: »

So the same argument for why teachers and guards etc should be prioritized which the government threw out. They've a higher chance of catching it due to their work environments and if they do catch it, a very big chance of having a mass spread coming out of it.

The younger cohort only have a chance of spreading it cos they're ignoring the restrictions. People like teachers and guards can be obeying restrictions and still have a high chance of spreading it.

Yeah, that's it.

Other than it being Donnelly's solo run, it does have some logic to it as a twin-track approach- Attack the issue from both ends simultaneously, rather than using a single strategy-

Assuming the drivers are that

a) older age correlates with higher morbidity and mortality
b) younger age correlates with greater transmissability, as they begin to 'rebel' against being locked down.

As those in a) get jabbed through the descending age strategy, those in b) start moving about more leading to greater spreading, making everything riskier for the bulk of the un-vaccinated population. If evidence exists that supports b) then I'd go along with it.

expectationlost · 17-04-2021 04:31PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Yeah, that's it.

Other than it being Donnelly's solo run

its not https://twitter.com/lostexpectation/status/1383390606605504517

TomOnBoard · 17-04-2021 04:32PM

crossman47 wrote: »

Dead right. I know a primary teacher who has never been militant and went along with the age cohort idea. This morning, for the first time, she was angry. She and colleagues have been keeping the show on the road despite staff shortages arising from others vulnerable or pregnant not being in school. Now she feels, despite all the platitudes from Foley, they are getting no regard at all.

And she has a point, along with so many others who are/have been working through the past year in the faces of the public, many with limited protection. SNAs and teachers in special ed have a particularly strong case for being vaccinated, but that plan was scuppered weeks ago.

17-04-2021 04:34PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Yeah, that's it.

Other than it being Donnelly's solo run, it does have some logic to it as a twin-track approach- Attack the issue from both ends simultaneously, rather than using a single strategy-

Assuming the drivers are that

a) older age correlates with higher morbidity and mortality
b) younger age correlates with greater transmissability, as they begin to 'rebel' against being locked down.

As those in a) get jabbed through the descending age strategy, those in b) start moving about more leading to greater spreading, making everything riskier for the bulk of the un-vaccinated population. If evidence exists that supports b) then I'd go along with it.

Too late in the day...

What about a 40 year old Gardai or teacher?

Dec 20 - prioritised by their profession

Mar 21 - downgraded by people older than them

Apr 21 - also downgraded by young people having house parties.

I dont think this is a runner?

Is this 1 April?

TomOnBoard · 17-04-2021 04:34PM

expectationlost wrote: »

its not https://twitter.com/lostexpectation/status/1383390606605504517

It is Donnelly's solo run if his Ministerial colleagues were blindsided by his comments, regardless of the inherent logic

Lumen · 17-04-2021 04:38PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

It is Donnelly's solo run if his Ministerial colleagues were blindsided by his comments, regardless of the inherent logic

Except this is a coalition with two parties who hate each other. It wouldn't be difficult to find someone from FG to put the boot in.

SJFly · 17-04-2021 04:42PM

expectationlost wrote: »

its not https://twitter.com/lostexpectation/status/1383390606605504517

The plan you keep on linking had key workers and numerous other groups vaccinated ahead of the general population.
Abandoning all the occupational groups and reintroducing the idea of vaccinating the youth ahead of middle aged (including those in high risk occupations) is completely new, and crazy.

expectationlost · 17-04-2021 04:48PM

SJFly wrote: »

The plan you keep on linking had key workers and numerous other groups vaccinated ahead of the general population.
Abandoning all the occupational groups and reintroducing the idea of vaccinating the youth ahead of middle aged (including those in high risk occupations) is completely new, and crazy.

its not, it doesn't say they wouldn't be prioritized ahead of those those other groups

expectationlost · 17-04-2021 04:48PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

It is Donnelly's solo run if his Ministerial colleagues were blindsided by his comments, regardless of the inherent logic

its not about logic its about lying politicians, they agreed that national strategy which included this possibibilty

SJFly · 17-04-2021 04:53PM

expectationlost wrote: »

its not, it doesn't say they wouldn't be prioritized ahead of those those other groups

If it was going back to the original plan, which was only abandoned a few weeks ago, then that's what the would have said surely. And it really doesn't do much for public confidence to keep on changing direction.

17-04-2021 05:02PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0417/1210409-covid-19-ireland/

And now actual reality....

expectationlost · 17-04-2021 05:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0417/1210409-covid-19-ireland/

And now actual reality....

theres no change until there is change

Strazdas · 17-04-2021 05:05PM

SJFly wrote: »

The plan you keep on linking had key workers and numerous other groups vaccinated ahead of the general population.
Abandoning all the occupational groups and reintroducing the idea of vaccinating the youth ahead of middle aged (including those in high risk occupations) is completely new, and crazy.

From a PR point of view, it would be disastrous. People in their fifties having to wait until 18 year olds have been vaccinated i.e. their children and even grandchildren in some cases getting vaccinated before they do.

is_that_so · 17-04-2021 05:06PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

It is Donnelly's solo run if his Ministerial colleagues were blindsided by his comments, regardless of the inherent logic

If it's something they might consider now is the time to look at it. It's kind of a wondering aloud idea for now but it's such a leakable proposal!

Gael23 · 17-04-2021 05:07PM

Another solo run by SD

17-04-2021 05:13PM

Strazdas wrote: »

From a PR point of view, it would be disastrous. People in their fifties having to wait until 18 year olds have been vaccinated i.e. their children and even grandchildren in some cases getting vaccinated before they do.

It just shows you how clueless he is.

Are politicians not supposed to be good at pr?

Supercell · 17-04-2021 05:15PM

Donnelly makes Norma look good, of all the times we needed a strong health minister and we get him.
Fcking FF same old, same old total incompetence, more flip flops than an Olympic gymnast, hopefully the next election will see them off finally.

noserider · 17-04-2021 05:16PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0417/1210409-covid-19-ireland/

And now actual reality....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40268519.html
Conflicting reports...HSE ready to adjust Rollout

Edit: A bit of a misleading headline all the same.
Nothing confirmed

JTMan · 17-04-2021 05:19PM

With the highest under 16 population in the EU, the vaccination of those under 16 is important. We need to plan. This makes me worry ...

Regarding the vaccination of those aged 15 and younger ... MM also said that the European Commission is planning on a rollout of vaccinations for children and teenagers in 2022 and 2023. WTF? 2022 and 2023? What planet is he on?

The FDA is expected to approve Pfizer for those aged 12-15 later this month or early next month. A submission to the EMA is expected soon. It is expected that the approval process will be quicker than the one for those aged 16+. Ireland should be aiming for July for the first dose for those aged 12-15. Not 2022!

Goldman Sachs (who have being very accurate in their predictions) have said that they expect FDA approval for Pfizer for those aged 6 months to 11 in October 2021. I would guess that the EMA will approve around then too. Hence, we should be aiming to vaccinate those aged under 11, mainly in schools, in October or November 2021. Not 2023!

Van.Bosch · 17-04-2021 05:20PM

Supercell wrote: »

Donnelly makes Norma look good, of all the times we needed a strong health minister and we get him.
Fcking FF same old, same old total incompetence, more flip flops than an Olympic gymnast, hopefully the next election will see them off finally.

Wonder who the FG candidate would be if it was their portfolio?

dominatinMC · 17-04-2021 05:21PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

A bit of info coming out of Chile :

https://twitter.com/rufussg/status/1383051802174746626?s=21

Considering this is from the much-maligned Sinovac vaccine, these are good results!

Miike · 17-04-2021 05:22PM

JTMan wrote: »

With the highest under 16 population in the EU, the vaccination of those under 16 is important. We need to plan. This makes me worry ...

Regarding the vaccination of those aged 15 and younger ... MM also said that the European Commission is planning on a rollout of vaccinations for children and teenagers in 2022 and 2023 in an attempt to deal with the pandemic. WTF? 2022 and 2023? What planet is he on?

The FDA is expected to approve Pfizer for those aged 12-15 later this month or early next month. A submission to the EMA is expected soon. It is expected that the approval process will be quicker than the one for those aged 16+. Ireland should be aiming for July for the first dose for those aged 12-15. Not 2022!

Goldman Sachs (who have being very accurate in their predictions) have said that they expect FDA approval for Pfizer those aged 6 months to 11 in October 2021. I would guess that the EMA will approve around then too. Hence, we should be aiming to vaccinate those aged under 11, mainly in schools, in October or November 2021. Not 2023!

Children aren't driving high levels of transmission and suffer next to zero consequences of infection. If the adults in the family are vaccinated then the children have nothing to worry about, especially when we are working with limited supply. Obviously it would be nice to have everyone vaccinated by yesterday but that also isn't realistic.

Strazdas · 17-04-2021 05:22PM

noserider wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40268519.html
Conflicting reports...HSE ready to adjust Rollout

A misleading headline, I suspect they will go nowhere near it. Fit and healthy teenagers being vaccinated whilst people in their fifties have to wait their turn behind them would be politically toxic.

is_that_so · 17-04-2021 05:23PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Wonder who the FG candidate would be if it was their portfolio?

Harris might want to get back to it in 2023! There'll be a whole reshuffle when Leo gets back into the hot seat.

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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