Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

As of tomorrow Israeli people no longer have to wear masks in public. We too will reach that stage!

We need to focus on stories like this that lift the spirit. We are only 2 to 3 months away from Israels vaccine numbers.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

As of tomorrow Israeli people no longer have to wear masks in public. We too will reach that stage!

I don't mean to dampen the spirits but they're mandatory outdoors over there. They aren't here. They still have to wear them inside, same as us.

Furze99

AMKC wrote: »

They better mot start vaccinating 18 to 30 year olds before us 40 to 45 year old or there will be maybem I tell you. Fu-ck 18 to 30 year old unless they have a compromised immune system us 40+ are more susceptible to the virus so us before them unless they want there ass sued too.

Just kite flying by the government - throw out stories and deflect from real issues. Like the objection of 60-69 yr olds to being lumped with a vaccine that has a question mark over it. They want to kill that story and stop it getting legs in the media.

A few months ago health care workers and people in nursing homes were the be and end all. They had to get the vaccination or face possible serious illness and death. The same rhetoric was shifted to 60 yr olds a week or so ago - suddenly they are all in mortal danger. Today I heard a health professional say over 50s were all at serious risk.

How can you believe a government/ health system that keeps changing the message. At this stage I believe very little of the spin and PR coming out. The only notable figures are cases and hospitalisations and these all coming down and summer coming in.

VG31

ACitizenErased wrote: »

As of tomorrow Israeli people no longer have to wear masks in public. We too will reach that stage!

They're scrapping masks outside, they still have to wear masks indoors.

So really they're only getting rid of a rule which we (thankfully) never had here, and since outdoor spread is almost non-existent probably made very little difference anyway.

LimerickGray

What is actually to the people in Cohort 4 that have not yet been vaccinated? I am one and nobody has contacted me (although my consultant said 2 weeks ago I was on his list) to say what is going on. I know a few people had their AZ appointments cancelled last week and told they would be rebooked but no contact since.
Has anyone any idea please?

lbj666

Its probably the 4th time i have said it today. If the suggestion of bringing younger groups foward is shouted down so much that it will never be considered again, they could be left in a major quandry by time we get to younger cohorts, if there ends up being any age cap on J&J.
Leaving AZ out of it,
The vacine rollout will have kept pace with whats arriving in up until said capped age is reached , then it can only go at the pace of the supply of the mRNAs, despite J&J ramping up their supply into June and July. So for arguement sake, you could get to 70% of the willing adult population under 60 at the pace of supply mRNAs+J&J, but then have to go mRNA only pace for the last 30%. Could be 50:50, 60:40 whatever.

Alternatively do mRNA+J&J eligible cohorts in parrallel with mRNA only cohorts, that way you get to 75% of adult population (irrespective of age cohorts) at same pace but keep that pace for the remaining 25%.

Hopefully theres no cap for J&J, but there needs to be a contingency. I am worried the **** storm or the fear of contradiction/u turns despite new blockers and unblockers being thrown at them nearly daily, will just allow for no flexibility in the few months ahead.

Jinglejangle69

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

My 68 year old father received his appointment a few hours ago. For this Thursday.

That's good to hear.

Meanwhile my two over 70s parents haven't heard anything.

vienne86

Szero wrote: »

When will 69 year olds get a notification of a vaccine appointment? I think I read that it would be this weekend?

This 69 year old got the text yesterday evening.

hmmm

lbj666 wrote: »

if there ends up being any age cap on J&J.
Leaving AZ out of it,
The vacine rollout will have kept pace with whats arriving in up until said capped age is reached , then it can only go at the pace of the supply of the mRNAs, despite J&J ramping up their supply into June and July. So for arguement sake, you could get to 70% of the willing adult population under 60 at the pace of supply mRNAs+J&J, but then have to go mRNA only pace for the last 30%. Could be 50:50, 60:40 whatever.

People are accepting it now, but I think there will be war if any vaccines go unused. Seeing as the Minister is continuously walking into political landmines, I'd just like to helpfully flag that one to anyone in the FF who may be listening.

The health authorities seem to be ascribing very little cost to continued lockdowns and large-scale unemployment, and are debating over very small risks with the vaccines. Fine, that's their job, but if we ever get to the point where someone says "it'll just mean a delay of a few months" and there is a pile of AZ or J&J sitting unused in a corner there will be trouble.

jellybear

LimerickGray wrote: »

What is actually to the people in Cohort 4 that have not yet been vaccinated? I am one and nobody has contacted me (although my consultant said 2 weeks ago I was on his list) to say what is going on. I know a few people had their AZ appointments cancelled last week and told they would be rebooked but no contact since.
Has anyone any idea please?

I am in cohort 4 and received my first dose of Pfizer today, through my GP.

I have heard that from 26th April, cohort 4 will ramp up considerably.

ETA- A quote from the Irish Times 'Deliveries of vaccines for those in cohorts four will be spread across three weeks, commencing on April 26th, May 3rd and May 10th.'

Stark

lbj666 wrote: »

Its probably the 4th time i have said it today. If the suggestion of bringing younger groups foward is shouted down so much that it will never be considered again, they could be left in a major quandry by time we get to younger cohorts, if there ends up being any age cap on J&J.
Leaving AZ out of it,
The vacine rollout will have kept pace with whats arriving in up until said capped age is reached , then it can only go at the pace of the supply of the mRNAs, despite J&J ramping up their supply into June and July. So for arguement sake, you could get to 70% of the willing adult population under 60 at the pace of supply mRNAs+J&J, but then have to go mRNA only pace for the last 30%. Could be 50:50, 60:40 whatever.

Alternatively do mRNA+J&J eligible cohorts in parrallel with mRNA only cohorts, that way you get to 75% of adult population (irrespective of age cohorts) at same pace but keep that pace for the remaining 25%.

Hopefully theres no cap for J&J, but there needs to be a contingency. I am worried the **** storm or the fear of contradiction/u turns despite new blockers and unblockers being thrown at them nearly daily, will just allow for no flexibility in the few months ahead.

I think we've already screwed the pooch tbh by continuing to use up mRNA vaccines on over-70s after the decision was made to put an age cap on AZ. Bringing under-30s forward won't make any difference if over-70s are all done and there's a surplus of AZ for over-60s. They should be nearing first dose done for over-70s soon and they'll all need a matching shot for their second dose.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

People are accepting it now, but I think there will be war if any vaccines go unused. Seeing as the Minister is continuously walking into political landmines, I'd just like to helpfully flag that one to anyone in the FF who may be listening.

The health authorities seem to be ascribing very little cost to continued lockdowns and large-scale unemployment, and are debating over very small risks with the vaccines. Fine, that's their job, but if we ever get to the point where someone says "it'll just mean a delay of a few months" and there is a pile of AZ or J&J sitting unused in a corner there will be trouble.

40,000 jandj siting around.

AZ probably lost a week over recent changes.

Those jabs should be in arms building immunity in our population.

In the end im confident both jandj and az are beyond safe.

The pfzier bonus jabs should just of accelerated things.

PaulJoseph22

LimerickGray wrote: »

What is actually to the people in Cohort 4 that have not yet been vaccinated? I am one and nobody has contacted me (although my consultant said 2 weeks ago I was on his list) to say what is going on. I know a few people had their AZ appointments cancelled last week and told they would be rebooked but no contact since.
Has anyone any idea please?

My appointment and my sisters were cancelled last week, we’ve heard nothing since....

https://youtu.be/_jFYrpAkQwA

John Campbell

Oxford research group recent study

Conslusions:

Blood clot risks increase with mrna vaccines.

Blood clot risks increase with AZ/J&J.

Blood clot risks increase with covid infection.

Take away: take first vaccine offered.

hmmm

Deleted User wrote: »

40,000 jandj siting around.

AZ probably lost a week over recent changes.

Those jabs should be in arms building immunity in our population.

In the end im confident both jandj and az are beyond safe.

There do appear to be issues with these vaccines, but we are in a pandemic. A regulator is likely to compare the number of deaths expected from the vaccine versus the number of deaths likely from Covid in a particular group, and on that basis decide the vaccine is not recommended, but that doesn't take any account of the costs for that entire cohort of maintaining restrictions for the extra time as a consequence. That becomes a political decision I think then, and the Government can't hide behind NIAC. I would happily take my chances with a 1:250,000 risk if it meant ending restrictions a month earlier.

Stark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://youtu.be/_jFYrpAkQwA

John Campbell

Oxford research group recent study

Conslusions:

Blood clot risks increase with mrna vaccines.

Blood clot risks increase with AZ/J&J.

Blood clot risks increase with covid infection.

Take away: take first vaccine offered.

No vaccines for anyone under 60 so 4eva lockdown instead

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/asked-irish-people-willing-take-23921124.amp


Not too much vaccine hesitancy there for AZ.

JTMan

Interesting Economist article here (paywall) on the damage caused by the US export controls.

- Problem caused by Biden using Defence Production Act (DPA) which hinders companies ability to export vaccines/ingredients.
- Serum Institute of India (SII), the world’s biggest vaccine-maker, put out a tweet begging President Joe Biden to “lift the embargo of raw material exports out of the US...Your administration has the details”.
- Concern that in the next four to six weeks the production of two vaccines will be affected: AstraZeneca’s, of which SII makes 100m doses a month, and Novavax’s, of which it expects to make 60m-70m doses a month.
- US export controls also effecting European vaccine producers.
- At a time when many American states have a surplus of vaccines, with as many as one in three doses going unused, American export restrictions are not just galling. They may soon derail the plan to vaccinate the world.

Time for Biden to act and revoke the use of the DPA.

lbj666

hmmm wrote: »

People are accepting it now, but I think there will be war if any vaccines go unused. Seeing as the Minister is continuously walking into political landmines, I'd just like to helpfully flag that one to anyone in the FF who may be listening.

The health authorities seem to be ascribing very little cost to continued lockdowns and large-scale unemployment, and are debating over very small risks with the vaccines. Fine, that's their job, but if we ever get to the point where someone says "it'll just mean a delay of a few months" and there is a pile of AZ or J&J sitting unused in a corner there will be trouble.

And all the people pointing it out where the issue lay in hindsight.

I was one of the ones here arguing the case for going by age insted of prioritising teachers et al a few weeks ago, but look at me now raising an amber warning for the risks of sticking with age, why? cause the playing field has be changed dramamatically again.

That's where the minefields are coming from, but Donnelly at least should know that because there are many more changes of plan ahead which he will have to deal with, he shouldn't be throwing out speculative stuff unnessecarily and creating more for himself.

astrofool

Deleted User wrote: »

40,000 jandj siting around.

AZ probably lost a week over recent changes.

Those jabs should be in arms building immunity in our population.

In the end im confident both jandj and az are beyond safe.

The pfzier bonus jabs should just of accelerated things.

J&J pulled the vaccine themselves. What this level of safety will do is increase the % of the population who get a vaccine, thus giving us a better chance at herd immunity. Saying "I'd take the risk" does nothing to the people who will obsess over the smallest things even if it's illogical, even if they do multiple things daily with higher risk (witness the person working themselves into sickness after getting AZ about a week ago on here, it was nothing in the end).

Wasn't that impressed with Luke O'Neill's tweet, a pint of Guinness never killed anyone unless it was allergies or it fell on someone's head. Alcoholism does kill, but it can't really be compared to a 2 shot vaccine.

Wolf359f

Stark wrote: »

I think we've already screwed the pooch tbh by continuing to use up mRNA vaccines on over-70s after the decision was made to put an age cap on AZ. Bringing under-30s forward won't make any difference if over-70s are all done and there's a surplus of AZ for over-60s. They should be nearing first dose done for over-70s soon and they'll all need a matching shot for their second dose.

Well in order for GP's to switch to AZ for 70+, they would have had to cancel appointments for dose 1 of 70+ while they take AZ deliveries.

That would lead to more delays with 70+. It would also mean any extra doses they have from an mRNA batch should not go to a 70+ first dose and instead go to a 16-59 or a 70+ second dose. It would be a nightmare for GP's to navigate.

It would also mean some 70+ patients would be on mRNA and others on AZ, it's a little easier for them to juggle vaccines based on age. So they know all their 70+ patients are on mRNA, 60-69 AZ and under 60 mRNA.

Nearly half of 70+ so far have had their second dose. It's not like they all need their second dose in the coming weeks.

lbj666

Stark wrote: »

I think we've already screwed the pooch tbh by continuing to use up mRNA vaccines on over-70s after the decision was made to put an age cap on AZ. Bringing under-30s forward won't make any difference if over-70s are all done and there's a surplus of AZ for over-60s. They should be nearing first dose done for over-70s soon and they'll all need a matching shot for their second dose.

I am not even thinking about AZ its gonna be left there more or less once over 60s are done.
We didn't think any issue of it at the time about not giving AZ to over 70s at the time, give the most robust to the most at risk seemed sensible. Then the blood clots issue happened.

Wolf359f

hmmm wrote: »

There do appear to be issues with these vaccines, but we are in a pandemic. A regulator is likely to compare the number of deaths expected from the vaccine versus the number of deaths likely from Covid in a particular group, and on that basis decide the vaccine is not recommended, but that doesn't take any account of the costs for that entire cohort of maintaining restrictions for the extra time as a consequence. That becomes a political decision I think then, and the Government can't hide behind NIAC. I would happily take my chances with a 1:250,000 risk if it meant ending restrictions a month earlier.

What regulators have paused or restricted certain vaccines to certain ages?
The EMA haven't, J&J and AZ are still approved for any member state to vaccinated people aged 18+

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

There do appear to be issues with these vaccines, but we are in a pandemic. A regulator is likely to compare the number of deaths expected from the vaccine versus the number of deaths likely from Covid in a particular group, and on that basis decide the vaccine is not recommended, but that doesn't take any account of the costs for that entire cohort of maintaining restrictions for the extra time as a consequence. That becomes a political decision I think then, and the Government can't hide behind NIAC. I would happily take my chances with a 1:250,000 risk if it meant ending restrictions a month earlier.

I think many people would take there chances with AZ.

They think they are applying do no harm principle.

I think the UK have got that more right in 2021 than we have.

Do no harm should mean get every ema approved vaccine into the most vulnerables arm asap.

When supply is plentiful caution can be applied more readily.

They are applying caution when millions have no solid idea when they are getting jab and nphet warning of fourth wave.

ACitizenErased

How is a nursing home outbreak with asymptomatic cases 'a major concern'?

TomOnBoard

My GP had planned an Over -70s session of Pfizer vaccinations this morning to run from 9-1. By 11.30, so many ppl had failed to show that they had to hit the phones and get people in so vaccines wouldnt be wasted. They ended up working til 4. I got the call at at 2.30 for the OH and myself. Done & dusted and back home by 3.30..

The nurse told me vaccine hesitancy is higher than they expected the last week or so.

hmmm

ACitizenErased wrote: »

How is a nursing home outbreak with asymptomatic cases 'a major concern'?

I deleted the post you are referring to, but I asked the same question.

This was the article I mentioned:
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0416/1210286-quarantine-high-court/

Wolf359f

ACitizenErased wrote: »

How is a nursing home outbreak with asymptomatic cases 'a major concern'?

I think it's a surprise to some people who thought vaccines have 100% efficiency, despite trials showing 90/95% efficiency. So you're going to hear loudly about the 5% despite the fact they will be asymptomatic or have mild symptoms for the most part. It shouldn't come as a surprise to many but the media will love to use it for fear mongering.

Happydays2020

https://twitter.com/donnellystephen/status/1383371703628156941?s=21

The 7 day average is 19000. This is data manipulation.

dominatinMC

hmmm wrote: »

I deleted the post you are referring to, but I asked the same question.

This was the article I mentioned:
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0416/1210286-quarantine-high-court/

Christ, the amount of times it's mentioned in that article that "the vaccines do not work" is shocking. Firstly, how can she say that so definitively? Also, she needs to define "work". Did anyone get seriously sick or die? If not, they do indeed work.