Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

J&J pulled the vaccine themselves. What this level of safety will do is increase the % of the population who get a vaccine, thus giving us a better chance at herd immunity. Saying "I'd take the risk" does nothing to the people who will obsess over the smallest things even if it's illogical, even if they do multiple things daily with higher risk (witness the person working themselves into sickness after getting AZ about a week ago on here, it was nothing in the end).

Wasn't that impressed with Luke O'Neill's tweet, a pint of Guinness never killed anyone unless it was allergies or it fell on someone's head. Alcoholism does kill, but it can't really be compared to a 2 shot vaccine.

What he is saying some people are poor at assessing risk.

They thinks its safe to neck 20 pints of Guiness a week, but afraid of a vaccine that has a mortality of 1 in a million.

Luke ONeill does talk alot of sense in this pandemic.

Micky 32

dominatinMC wrote: »

Christ, the amount of times it's mentioned in that article that "the vaccines do not work" is shocking. Firstly, how can she say that so definitively? Also, she needs to define "work". Did anyone get seriously sick or die? If not, they do indeed work.

If that article is anything to go it doesn’t bode well for future travel.

Wolf359f

Happydays2020 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/donnellystephen/status/1383371703628156941?s=21

The 7 day average is 19000. This is data manipulation.

In his defense, he's not quoting the 7 day average, he's quoting a figure from a single day.
But I will say, they will want to get the finger out, we're slowly slipping down the EU table!

ZX7R

hmmm wrote: »

I deleted the post you are referring to, but I asked the same question.

This was the article I mentioned:
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0416/1210286-quarantine-high-court/

She needs to reread her paper work she says an EU country reported it,reports in Polish media is it was reported in the UK and most showed no signs of sickness and or very mild.
Polish media reporting how the vaccination help save the lives of those infected.

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

I think it's a surprise to some people who thought vaccines have 100% efficiency, despite trials showing 90/95% efficiency. So you're going to hear loudly about the 5% despite the fact they will be asymptomatic or have mild symptoms for the most part. It shouldn't come as a surprise to many but the media will love to use it for fear mongering.

Exactly right. Like this headline: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1382684947807404038

josip

Deleted User wrote: »

https://youtu.be/_jFYrpAkQwA

John Campbell

Oxford research group recent study

Conslusions:

Blood clot risks increase with mrna vaccines.

Blood clot risks increase with AZ/J&J.

Blood clot risks increase with covid infection.

Take away: take first vaccine offered.

That Oxford 'study' of the Oxford vaccine was discussed in depth over on the AZ thread a few days ago.
There were a lot of questions about what they were claiming and their methodology.
Even the pro AZ posters on that thread questioned the report.

plodder

Wolf359f wrote: »

In his defense, he's not quoting the 7 day average, he's quoting a figure from a single day.
But I will say, they will want to get the finger out, we're slowly slipping down the EU table!

True. When it started we were just behind Denmark in the top 4 of the EU 27. We are now 8th from the bottom according to:

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=latest&country=AUT~BEL~BGR~CYP~CZE~DEU~DNK~ESP~EST~FIN~FRA~GRC~HRV~HUN~IRL~ITA~LTU~LUX~LVA~MLT~NLD~POL~PRT~ROU~SVK~SVN~SWE~EuropeanUnion&region=World&pickerMetric=total_vaccinations_per_hundred&pickerSort=desc&Interval=Cumulative&Align+outbreaks=false&Relative+to+Population=true&Metric=Vaccine+doses

worlds goodest teecher

When is cohort 4 expected to finish? I am still awaiting my appointment.

Azatadine

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1383518642508234763?s=19

vienne86

Happydays2020 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/donnellystephen/status/1383371703628156941?s=21

The 7 day average is 19000. This is data manipulation.

He didn't say anything about anything except Thursday's figures, so I should see where the manipulation is.

Deeper Blue

hmmm wrote: »

I deleted the post you are referring to, but I asked the same question.

This was the article I mentioned:
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0416/1210286-quarantine-high-court/

That article is a complete disgrace

VG31

Deeper Blue wrote: »

That article is a complete disgrace

What's even worse is that the "expert" spreading such blatant misinformation is on NPHET.

For people who rely or RTE or the Irish media for vaccine news, it would be understandable to think that the vaccines don't work against the variants.

Russman

Has anyone come up with a revised guesstimate of when the lower age cohorts might start ? Like say the 50s might be XX May, the 40s YY May, etc etc
I know Paul Reid mentioned the under 60s won’t start til June but surely that can’t be right if they think they’ll reach 80% first doses by end of June ?

Happydays2020

vienne86 wrote: »

He didn't say anything about anything except Thursday's figures, so I should see where the manipulation is.

Well selectively quoting the high vaccine days is disingenuous at best. We need to see high average rates.

Strazdas

Russman wrote: »

Has anyone come up with a revised guesstimate of when the lower age cohorts might start ? Like say the 50s might be XX May, the 40s YY May, etc etc
I know Paul Reid mentioned the under 60s won’t start til June but surely that can’t be right if they think they’ll reach 80% first doses by end of June ?

I can't understand why the under 60s would need to wait until the over 60s are finished. We already know that they will be receiving a completely different vaccine (i.e. not AZ), therefore there is no reason whatsoever the two age cohorts couldn't overlap.

GazzaL

I'm sick of people talking about different bull**** variants. There are variants of influenza every ****ing year and nobody bats an eyelid. The vaccines are adapted and everyone gets on with life. Unless you're high risk, e.g. elderly or obese, you will most likely be fine without the vaccine.

Wolf359f

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Well selectively quoting the high vaccine days is disingenuous at best. We need to see high average rates.

He quoted the highest daily figure so far for vaccines administered, would you prefer the didn't give us hope? Would you prefer he only tweeted the lowest days?
It's also the highest 7 day average so far.
Don't be so negative ffs!

Charles Babbage

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Well selectively quoting the high vaccine days is disingenuous at best. We need to see high average rates.

We need to see a big step up this week if we are going anywhere.

We should have
> 70 year olds getting first and second jabs,
the 68-69 year olds
the <60 people with vulnerabilities

Wolf359f

GazzaL wrote: »

I'm sick of people talking about different bull**** variants. There are variants of influenza every ****ing year and nobody bats an eyelid. The vaccines are adapted and everyone gets on with life. Unless you're high risk, e.g. elderly or obese, you will most likely be fine without the vaccine.

My understating and I'm completely a noob to this.
We have certain immunity to previous influenza, so we have some baseline protection. Hence why it's not as serious as Covid.
Once we get a high vaccination figure, any new variants will not be a novel virus and we will have some baseline immunity from them. So in essence it will be a hell of a lot less serious?
The booster they refer to will be akin to the yearly flu jab.

Happydays2020

Wolf359f wrote: »

He quoted the highest daily figure so far for vaccines administered, would you prefer the didn't give us hope? Would you prefer he only tweeted the lowest days?
It's also the highest 7 day average so far.
Don't be so negative ffs!

He quoted the 1 April figures and then nearly 3 weeks later we get this. We separately fine he wants to change the order again.

Wolf359f

Happydays2020 wrote: »

He quoted the 1 April figures and then nearly 3 weeks later we get this. We separately fine he wants to change the order again.

He's the health minster, if he wanted to change the order, he can change the order. He doesn't need permission to ffs. That aside, he's not misrepresenting the figures, he tweeted the numbers for a certain day and that's the numbers. If you have issues with the health minster tweeting vaccine figures for the highest day so far, that's on you. He tweets every day, hes looking for attention, he doesn't tweet, hes hiding a failure. Can't win.

And I do not like him, hes an awful health minister, I don't have anything positive to say about him at all.

Wolf359f

godzilla89 wrote: »

I would honestly just love to see a proper mass scale challenge trial done by some country and no more of these daily headlines that are either negative or positive, it's tiring at this stage as I know we will have a variant one doing the opposite tomorrow and be negative.

Do the challenge trial, put Covid in the air, infect thousands of young people, give us the results of each vaccine, spare us all these conversations on here on efficacy and effectiveness.

UK were supposed to do one ages ago and all has gone quiet.

Suprised no country or no pharma company has done one, because even the Pfizer trial isn't great reading in terms of exposure to the virus ,only 170 in the trial actually had covid, 10 severe cases in the whole trial, 9 in placebo and doesn't even say if anyone even ended up in ICU out of those 10

99.20% had no covid in placebo and 99.96% in vaccine group

Oddly enough the amount of people that needed medical treatment in the placebo group and vaccinated group was similar, 9 had severe covid in placebo and 4 needed medical treatment for bells palsy, 1 severe covid in vaccine group and then it lists below, which I'm guessing needed medical treatment as well and favours the placebo in terms of severe adverse reactions

0.6% severe adverse reactions in vaccine ( 130 people based on 21720 trialists)

0.5% severe adverse reactions in placebo ( 110 people based on 21728 trialists )

What I am getting at is none of the trials had enough people exposed to the virua which a challenge trial would do

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-publication-results-landmark

It's mainly the media, you will not change that.
Do a large scale trial conducted scientifically, groove X vaccine protected 9,999 patients and 1 got symptoms. Media comments saying vaccine X has a breakthrough variant (that's technically correct, they all breakthrough to some degree) Media announces nearly 1mil at risk of new super variant (that's again correct)

Scientists follow science.
Judges follow law.
Media follow clicks, that will never change!

Wolf359f

godzilla89 wrote: »

Why didn't they make those pan vaccines first?

Only targeting the spike protein vaccines and leaving other methods of infection like the N was only inviting trouble?

Yeah they should have waited a few years before releasing a covid vaccine?
Yeah it's good now, we can save millions of lives, but we'll wait a few years to make sure it's the best!
Or release one that works right now and then when they have time, focus on future issues.

Corholio

godzilla89 wrote: »

Why didn't they make those pan vaccines first?

Only targeting the spike protein vaccines and leaving other methods of infection like the N was only inviting trouble?

I'm sure there's a lot more to it than that, even though we've all learned a lot about viruses this past year that 99% of us wouldn't have known before, the majority of us still don't know an awful lot, I'm including myself in that too.

Wolf359f

godzilla89 wrote: »

No offence but I wanted a scientific answer, not your opinion.

You're only going to get opinions on here, this is not a ****ing science forum.
What the hell are you expecting?

Wolf359f

godzilla89 wrote: »

All true, but I still think we need that challenge trial to learn more about the virus and how it infects, nearly 18 months in and still so many unanswered questions.

Can you get it from surfaces, is it airborne, is it droplets, do truly asymptomatic spread it and how, who have natural immunity, who don't, do blood markers tell us anything about who can be immune or not, can some infected not infect others, is superspreaders common, list is endless.

Yes it can be contracted from surfaces
Yes it can be airbourne
Yes it's in droplets
Yes asymptomatic spreads it
No idea - consultant an expert
No idea - consultant an expert
No idea - consultant an expert
No idea what that one means.
Define common?
If you couldn't answer at least one of those yourself, then no wonder you need scientific help!

lucernarian

Wolf359f wrote: »

You're only going to get opinions on here, this is not a ****ing science forum.
What the hell are you expecting?

I kinda wish it was tbh, this thread used to be a good place for discussion before it was dragged into the gutter by merged threads and other unwise decisions

IRISHSPORTSGUY

What a jump on the week of April 26th!

https://twitter.com/jorisvaesen/status/1383385759059644419

Lumen

godzilla89 wrote: »

Do the challenge trial, put Covid in the air, infect thousands of young people, give us the results of each vaccine, spare us all these conversations on here on efficacy and effectiveness.

You're referring to a type of human challenge study. A company in the UK is planning to run one, although not as irresponsibly as you're suggesting.

https://www.openorphan.com/human-challenge-programme

The ethics are problematic, given that COVID is a multi organ disease with a high incidence even in young adults and children. The long term effects are unknown, and there is no standardized treatment plan for long COVID.

josip

Wolf359f wrote: »

You're only going to get opinions on here, this is not a ****ing science forum.
What the hell are you expecting?

On the contrary Wolf, up to about a week ago, this thread was a very good source of factual answers, explanations and clarifications from people who actually knew there stuff, some of whom obviously worked in the field.