Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

Valhallapt · 16-04-2021 08:12AM

otnomart wrote: »

And I have no doubt that any other EU Country (think of Germany, Spain, Poland...) will also lodge complaints, when added to the list.

There is a vote on eu wide covid passports on the 28th of April. It’s likely MHQ will end then, that’s why Micheal Martin says it’s not a medium term solution.

Valhallapt · 16-04-2021 08:17AM

hamburgham wrote: »

I think we should contact the Italian embassy to thank them for expressing the views of a huge number of Irish people who are being completely ignored by their supposed public representatives who are afraid to open their mouths.

Better again write to the french ambassador and ask him to encourage port workers in Dunkirk to do some very thorough check on rules of origin of vessels with farm produce coming from Ireland. When the farmers loose a few million they don’t waste time letting the government know it’s best to change course.

is_that_so · 16-04-2021 08:17AM

Valhallapt wrote: »

There is a vote on eu wide covid passports on the 28th of April. It’s likely MHQ will end then, that’s why Micheal Martin says it’s not a medium term solution.

The hotel contract and legislation I believe remain in effect until June.

is_that_so · 16-04-2021 08:23AM

20silkcut wrote: »

Dr David nbarro is saying pretty much that in today’s independent. That variants beat the vaccines. Basically the vaccine is useless without border control. Pretty depressing read. He is talking in terms of years before we get on top of this. The virus is currently surging on a global scale.

Did he really say vaccines are useless? The border control claim is untrue anyway, it'll still get in and you need all the other measures to control it. TBH he knows about as much as the rest of us about what will happen. It's also a very, very limited perspective. You can respect his expertise but some of these experts really should learn when to shut up.

faceman · 16-04-2021 08:25AM

Valhallapt wrote: »

There is a vote on eu wide covid passports on the 28th of April. It’s likely MHQ will end then, that’s why Micheal Martin says it’s not a medium term solution.

The Wexford MHQ is being set up in may. MHQ will continue till at least September or December for eu countries and probably till next summer for rest of world.

Valhallapt · 16-04-2021 08:33AM

faceman wrote: »

The Wexford MHQ is being set up in may. MHQ will continue till at least September or December for eu countries and probably till next summer for rest of world.

I can’t see the eu allowing it to drag on like that. It may well continue for some parts of the world but there will be a centrally agreed eu list of res zones

faceman · 16-04-2021 08:40AM

Valhallapt wrote: »

I can’t see the eu allowing it to drag on like that. It may well continue for some parts of the world but there will be a centrally agreed eu list of res zones

The EU is only interested in EU countries. If the government backs out of MHQ prematurely the public will revolt.

16-04-2021 08:45AM

faceman wrote: »

The EU is only interested in EU countries. If the government backs out of MHQ prematurely the public will revolt.

The USA and the UK will be fully vaccinated by August (assuming no roadblocks). And they’re be some kind of EU travel system.

How much of our travel will be exempt therefore from MHQ? I don’t know the number, but a lot. 75 - 80%?

is_that_so · 16-04-2021 08:49AM

faceman wrote: »

The EU is only interested in EU countries. If the government backs out of MHQ prematurely the public will revolt.

Not if we have very few cases and plenty vaccinated. They can claim it worked. It's unlikely to follow the extended time frame you imagine though and the EU will kick up quite a stink if we try.

is_that_so · 16-04-2021 08:53AM

Donnelly always seems to be looking for the worst possible way to explain himself.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/i-make-no-apology-to-the-european-commission-the-italian-ambassador-or-anybody-else-stephen-donnelly-defends-irelands-hotel-quarantine-system-40318354.html

faceman · 16-04-2021 08:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The USA and the UK will be fully vaccinated by August (assuming no roadblocks). And they’re be some kind of EU travel system.

How much of our travel will be exempt therefore from MHQ? I don’t know the number, but a lot. 75 - 80%?

is_that_so wrote: »

Not if we have very few cases and plenty vaccinated. They can claim it worked. It's unlikely to follow the extended time frame you imagine though and the EU will kick up quite a stink if we try.

But lads, you're forgetting about the uknown "variants" that are a concern even though they dont exist yet

McConkey and Staines are regularly telling us we will need MHQ for years.

FlubberJones · 16-04-2021 08:58AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Donnelly always seems to be looking for the worst possible way to explain himself.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/i-make-no-apology-to-the-european-commission-the-italian-ambassador-or-anybody-else-stephen-donnelly-defends-irelands-hotel-quarantine-system-40318354.html

That's an amusing read, he obviously thinks posturing and making this big stance to the EU is impressive... tis laughable.

Tordelback · 16-04-2021 09:00AM

faceman wrote: »

...If the government backs out of MHQ prematurely the public will revolt.

What would that look like, exactly? Other than long queues for flights to the Canaries, I mean.

The key word here is 'prematurely'. Seeing around 500 deaths a day in Italy, equivalent of about 50 in these parts, should be sobering enough to forestall the use of that term for a while, even if they are largely B117-related, a costly bridge we may already have crossed. The atrocious situation in Canada currently, even with twice as many one-dose vaccinations as we've managed, should be instructive enough about the value of caution.

is_that_so · 16-04-2021 09:02AM

FlubberJones wrote: »

That's an amusing read, he obviously thinks posturing and making this big stance to the EU is impressive... tis laughable.

It is his way!

a_squirrelman · 16-04-2021 09:06AM

faceman wrote: »

The EU is only interested in EU countries. If the government backs out of MHQ prematurely the public will revolt.

Public opinion seems to be 50/50. The only problem is the pro-MHQ crowd are infinitely louder.
I'm being called a middle class fascist on Twitter because I'm against it and I grew up in the flats.

I even saw some nasty comments about that surrogate family along the lines of them taking advantage of some poor Ukrainian to carry their child. Another about homeless people living in hotels for years but 2 weeks blah blah middle class something something.

The internet is bloody mental these days.

Valhallapt · 16-04-2021 09:17AM

faceman wrote: »

The EU is only interested in EU countries. If the government backs out of MHQ prematurely the public will revolt.

Well the reason the public will revolt is because they haven’t been given both sides of the MHQ story.

Ireland played its Brexit cards very skilfully, all that good work could be undone by Donnelly pandering to a Twitter mob.

I can’t remember the last time several of our most important trading partners ganged up to public ally chastise Ireland. They’re rightfully angry. We’re either European or we’re not

Sharpyshoot · 16-04-2021 09:25AM

FlubberJones wrote: »

That's an amusing read, he obviously thinks posturing and making this big stance to the EU is impressive... tis laughable.

A clown, we are an embarrassment to the eu.

Valhallapt · 16-04-2021 09:25AM

Alleged rapists and murderers are allowed home on bail.

Young children who have tested negative for covid twice are being locked up.

It’s not beyond the wit of man to come up with a sensible strategy to reduce inbound covid infections, can’t eliminate it because we have an open border with two Belfast airports which are busier than they have ever been.

I cannot understand how you can justify locking up families in hotels when they have empty houses they could be in. Get the travellers to pay a 2k surety that they get back once they prove they have left their house for two weeks.

There are always going to be people who break the rules.

mmclo · 16-04-2021 10:11AM

faceman wrote: »

You can’t get a MHQ exemption for funerals, busting dying relatives, for access arrangements to children, but you can get exemptions for elite sports. Says it all.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/other-sport/2021/0415/1210187-hotel-quarantine-exemption-for-elite-athletes-confirmed/

Micheal O'Higgins SC will have field day with this

mmclo · 16-04-2021 10:12AM

is_that_so wrote: »

The hotel contract and legislation I believe remain in effect until June.

The hotel contracts I believe are for 3 months beyond that

mmclo · 16-04-2021 10:16AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Donnelly always seems to be looking for the worst possible way to explain himself.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/i-make-no-apology-to-the-european-commission-the-italian-ambassador-or-anybody-else-stephen-donnelly-defends-irelands-hotel-quarantine-system-40318354.html

The reality is a Commission action would take years and both sides know it, they were pursuing us on water quality for 20 years!

caveat emptor · 16-04-2021 10:24AM

faceman wrote: »

But lads, you're forgetting about the uknown "variants" that are a concern even though they dont exist yet

McConkey and Staines are regularly telling us we will need MHQ for years.

So we are sequencing every genome in every part of the world?

How do you know that they don't exist? The've been popping up with quite a bit of frequency.

B.1.1.7 came here at the worst possible time and has since been proved to be

more deadly
more transmissible
affect younger people more

This is a real issue. Back in December were screaming about doom mongering but it has been a major contributory factor in the longest strictest lock down we've had to get it back under school.

The South African one has been shown to evade immunity through infection or vaccine. So much so that they gave away their Astra allocation /orders.

Open schools and functioning hospitals are more important that holidays. Essential travel is well essential.

But yeah they are not real and there won't be more because it doesn't suit some people. Stop the lights.

https://twitter.com/inquirerdotnet/status/1382324107690262529?s=20

OwenM · 16-04-2021 11:42AM

beggars_bush wrote: »

Ara here.
What a ridiculous comment

Not really, the general public knew what they were and why they were there. The full reality was known, i.e. that nuns enslaved women and sold their babies abroad, even the infant mortality was the subject of inquiries.

Today, everyone knows why MHQ exists and what it hopes to achieve.

zebastein · 16-04-2021 11:45AM

At the same time, there is an article on RTE mentioning that some cases coming from India have a variant with 2 mutations (no proof that it is a threat) but India is not added on the MHQ list because there are 90+k Indian people in Ireland and that there is no capacity in the hotels. But there are countries like Monaco or some strange Island because that is useless but politicians can pretend that they have a huge list of countries.

timmyntc · 16-04-2021 11:50AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

So we are sequencing every genome in every part of the world?

How do you know that they don't exist? The've been popping up with quite a bit of frequency.

B.1.1.7 came here at the worst possible time and has since been proved to be
more deadly

more transmissible

affect younger people more

This is a real issue. Back in December were screaming about doom mongering but it has been a major contributory factor in the longest strictest lock down we've had to get it back under school.

The South African one has been shown to evade immunity through infection or vaccine. So much so that they gave away their Astra allocation /orders.

Open schools and functioning hospitals are more important that holidays. Essential travel is well essential.

But yeah they are not real and there won't be more because it doesn't suit some people. Stop the lights.

https://twitter.com/inquirerdotnet/status/1382324107690262529?s=20

Total misinformation.
B.1.1.7 has been proven to not be any more deadly. More infectious yes, more fatal no. Outcomes are the same as the original strains.

The south African one does not evade vaccines - they are still effective.

saabsaab · 16-04-2021 11:50AM

zebastein wrote: »

At the same time, there is an article on RTE mentioning that some cases coming from India have a variant with 2 mutations (no proof that it is a threat) but India is not added on the MHQ list because there are 90+k Indian people in Ireland and that there is no capacity in the hotels. But there are countries like Monaco or some strange Island because that is useless but politicians can pretend that they have a huge list of countries.

You are making a case to stop all non essential travel.

fm · 16-04-2021 11:51AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

So we are sequencing every genome in every part of the world?

How do you know that they don't exist? The've been popping up with quite a bit of frequency.

B.1.1.7 came here at the worst possible time and has since been proved to be
more deadly

more transmissible

affect younger people more

This is a real issue. Back in December were screaming about doom mongering but it has been a major contributory factor in the longest strictest lock down we've had to get it back under school.

The South African one has been shown to evade immunity through infection or vaccine. So much so that they gave away their Astra allocation /orders.

Open schools and functioning hospitals are more important that holidays. Essential travel is well essential.

But yeah they are not real and there won't be more because it doesn't suit some people. Stop the lights.

https://twitter.com/inquirerdotnet/status/1382324107690262529?s=20

Not more deadly

https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/13/kent-covid-19-variant-more-infectious-but-not-more-severe-two-studies-find

OwenM · 16-04-2021 11:55AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

So we are sequencing every genome in every part of the world?

How do you know that they don't exist? The've been popping up with quite a bit of frequency.

B.1.1.7 came here at the worst possible time and has since been proved to be
more deadly

more transmissible

affect younger people more

This is a real issue. Back in December were screaming about doom mongering but it has been a major contributory factor in the longest strictest lock down we've had to get it back under school.

The South African one has been shown to evade immunity through infection or vaccine. So much so that they gave away their Astra allocation /orders.

Open schools and functioning hospitals are more important that holidays. Essential travel is well essential.

But yeah they are not real and there won't be more because it doesn't suit some people. Stop the lights.

https://twitter.com/inquirerdotnet/status/1382324107690262529?s=20

Not this auld ****e again, one small study and nobody admitted to hospital. It's not a real issue, nobody in this context is going into hospital or dying, they are catching a mild illness.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-doesnt-prevent-b1351-covid-early-trial
"Of the 750 participants vaccine recipients, 19 (2.5%) developed mild to moderate COVID-19 more than 14 days after the second dose, compared with 23 of 717 placebo recipients (3.2%). The incidence of COVID-19 among the vaccine group was 73.1 per 1,000 person-years, compared with 93.6 per 1,000 person-years among the placebo group, for an efficacy of 21.9% (95% confidence interval [CI], -49.9 to 59.8).

Of the 42 total cases of COVID-19, 39 (92.9%) were caused by B1351, for a vaccine effectiveness against this variant of 10.4% (95% CI, -76.8 to 54.8). All 42 cases were mild to moderate, and no patients were hospitalized."

And even for those reinfected it's mild to moderate.

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/opinion/2021-03-04-shabir-a-madhi-decision-not-to-use-astrazeneca-vaccine-goes-against-the-spirit-of-what-the-health-department-espoused/

"This provided the first conclusive evidence that the mutations included in the B. 1.351 were clinically significant, and that despite 35-45% of South Africans (especially in densely populated urban areas) likely to have been infected during the course of the first wave by the prototype virus, such infection did not confer any protection against developing mild to moderate Covid-19 due to the B. 1351 variant."

crossman47 · 16-04-2021 12:04PM

This is a mess and the media have played a big part. They gave a platform to all those looking for MHQ but, as soon as it came in, publicised every sob story they could find. Wait for July and a headline about some 90 year old who didn't get vaccinated. Shock, horror.

Valhallapt · 16-04-2021 12:31PM

MHQ won’t work.

The majority of people live within a ~2 hour drive of two unrestricted airports which have better choice than ever.

The four freedoms of the EU are insoluble, you can’t single out countries and arbitrarily restrict movement of their people and assume they’ll be no consequences. While the commission will be slow to do anything, twice in the last 12 months France has turned the screw at Calais, first time to force the brits into a lockdown.

Ireland is overly dependent on FDI, American executives will not travel to Ireland to be jailed. I’d be surprised if the dfa isn’t already coming under huge pressure to exempt US nationals.

MHQ is repugnant to the constitution, it is likely to be struck down if it gets in-front of a judge, hence the government caving in on every challenge to it thus far.

I think everyone agrees we need to stop variants coming in and reseeding COVID. But MHQ is a bad approach. A grown up thoughtful approach which deals with all the facts needs to be had. At the moment we have that gormless Donnelly acting the hard man to the EU all to appease some anonymous Twitter trolls.

Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

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