Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

is_that_so · 15-04-2021 07:27PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Seriously? Within the 1st year, have we not had multiple variants? I'm thinking of

Original Wuhan
Kent variant
South African variant
Brazil variant
Possible Breton variant
Possible Creteil variant
B.1.427 and B.1.429 in California
...

and the other 750,000 variants that you've never heard of!

ACitizenErased · 15-04-2021 07:29PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Seriously? Within the 1st year, have we not had multiple variants? I'm thinking of

Original Wuhan
Kent variant
South African variant
Brazil variant
Possible Breton variant
Possible Creteil variant
B.1.427 and B.1.429 in California
...

There's been thousands of variants. None of the ones you've listed are vaccine evading.

Turtwig · 15-04-2021 07:29PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Unfortunately some love dwelling on the misery of this possibly continuing indefinitely, maybe it makes them feel relevent on the forums or something. Lets keep the restrictions going in between jabs eh :rolleyes:

People love the misery of a pandemic that has brought illness, death and financial ruin.

Could you have posted anything any bit less pathetic?

nibtrix · 15-04-2021 07:29PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Seriously? Within the 1st year, have we not had multiple variants? I'm thinking of

Original Wuhan
Kent variant
South African variant
Brazil variant
Possible Breton variant
Possible Creteil variant
B.1.427 and B.1.429 in California
...

Yes but most are covered by the existing vaccine. They’re not mutating “enough” to need a different vaccine.

I know there are some that they are not sure of yet.

Cork2021 · 15-04-2021 07:29PM

is_that_so wrote: »

and the other 750,000 variants that you've never heard of!

Jesus don’t scare the lad!!

is_that_so · 15-04-2021 07:31PM

Cork2021 wrote: »

Jesus don’t scare the lad!!

Sure, they've had no effect!

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 07:32PM

Turtwig wrote: »

People love the misery of a pandemic that has brought illness, death and financial ruin.

Could you have posted anything any bit less pathetic?

You are very naive. The forum is full of them. I had a poster once re reg and his first post was to attack my positive posts, so you know what you can do with your “pathetic “:rolleyes:

timsey tiger · 15-04-2021 07:35PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

You are very naive the forum is full of them. I had a poster once re reg and his first post was to attack my positive posts, so you know what you can do with your “pathetic “:rolleyes:

So what, somebody has a different point of view. It doesn't mean they want the pandemic to continue. Attack the post not the poster, so to speak. This incessant, moaning about other posters loving misery is tedious at best.

josip · 15-04-2021 07:37PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

26,000 69 year olds registered today so far

If this keeps going the same way as Cohort 2, then by the end of the week all 61,000 of the 37,000 69 year olds in the country will have registered.

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 07:38PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

So what, somebody has a different point of view. It doesn't mean they want the pandemic to continue. Attack the post not the poster, so to speak. This incessant, moaning about other posters loving misery is tedious at best.

Lol It’s very predictable the posters that usually reply. So you’re ok with a re reg coming on just to specially attack positive posts? That figures :rolleyes:

is_that_so · 15-04-2021 07:41PM

josip wrote: »

If this keeps going the same way as Cohort 2, then by the end of the week all 61,000 of the 37,000 69 year olds in the country will have registered.

People only have one age! Cohort 2 was under HSE control and subject to change.

Deeper Blue · 15-04-2021 07:42PM

The big bad variants are so effective at evading the vaccines that 0.008% of 66 million vaccinated people in the US got infected, with just 7% of those ending up in hospital.

We're doomed guys

TomOnBoard · 15-04-2021 07:43PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There's been thousands of variants. None of the ones you've listed are vaccine evading.

My response was a challenge to your categorical statements that "Coronavirus is nothing like the flu, mutates much slower. Thus, vaccinations don't need to be annual.". There is no evidence for your comment that it " mutates much slower". Within a year, we've had a number of such mutations, and there are likely to be others out there, particularly in countries that have limited access to vaccines, that have not been identified yet. Thus far, the current vaccines appear to remain effective against the known variants, although the French ones are still somewhat of an unknown quantity. At any time, that could change, hence my observation that we are unlikely to get a 3-year window as you suggest.

You may well be right, though and I hope you are. But there's so much about this that we don't know, so a strategy that hopes for the best while planning for the worst would appear to me to be mosr appropriate.

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 07:47PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

My response was a challenge to your categorical statements that "Coronavirus is nothing like the flu, mutates much slower. Thus, vaccinations don't need to be annual.". There is no evidence for your comment that it " mutates much slower". Within a year, we've had a number of such mutations, and there are likely to be others out there, particularly in countries that have limited access to vaccines, that have not been identified yet. Thus far, the current vaccines appear to remain effective against the known variants, although the French ones are still somewhat of an unknown quantity. At any time, that could change, hence my observation that we are unlikely to get a 3-year window as you suggest.

You may well be right, though and I hope you are. But there's so much about this that we don't know, so a strategy that hopes for the best while planning for the worst would appear to me to be mosr appropriate.

So what would your idea be for planning for the worst?

I have been reading a lot of info about mutations etc and it seems a lot of experts think that this virus can’t mutate too much or it would lose it’s functionality. They are confident Vaccines will always be a step ahead of it.

VonLuck · 15-04-2021 07:50PM

Deeper Blue wrote: »

The big bad variants are so effective at evading the vaccines that 0.008% of 66 million vaccinated people in the US got infected, with just 7% of those ending up in hospital.

We're doomed guys

Whilst 0.008% is a tiny percentage, I'm surprised that the hospitalisation from that cohort is as high as 7%. Is there a suggestion that if you're vaccinated and get infected that it's likely to be a more severe dose?

Van.Bosch · 15-04-2021 07:53PM

is_that_so wrote: »

People only have one age! Cohort 2 was under HSE control and subject to change.

The portal allows registrations of 65-69 year olds, they requested just 69 today but under 69s can register. I don’t think it means they will get appointments any earlier but they can register their interest.

Furze99 · 15-04-2021 07:55PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Nobody can choose their vaccine, that's a HSE call. Most people seem happy to take what they are offered. A national programme can't wait for people to make up their minds and it needs to move on to the next person. If people don't want it now when might they want it?

It's perfectly possible for the HSE to have the portal, get people to register and have a tick box for this Astra Zennica vaccine. Send out appointments for these people and deal with all others on age related basis when alternative stocks come in. That is not rocket science. You get people registered saying yes, they will take a vaccine and here are my details. Sorting them into two categories afterwards is easy.

Threatening 400K citizens who might qualms over this Astra Zennica vaccine with going to the end of the queue is not good politics. In fact it's plain stupid politics, remember this is an age cohort who are inclined to vote. FG seem intent lately with antagonising the electorate, have they lost their political noses?

is_that_so · 15-04-2021 07:55PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

The portal allows registrations of 65-69 year olds, they requested just 69 today but under 69s can register. I don’t think it means they will get appointments any earlier but they can register their interest.

Yeah, but the 69 year olds group is a defined size. The poster was comparing it to Group 2, which kept growing.

Polar101 · 15-04-2021 07:55PM

Finland has been keeping stats on infections in vaccinated people.

1.25 million people vaccinated (1st dose)
- 781 infections reported (= 0.06% breakthrough infections)
- 45 of those hospitalised (0.0036% of total, or 5.76% of those who were infected)
- 4 ended in ICU
- death number is unknown

So 99.94% of the vaccinated people didn't get Covid (so far, obviously). Hospitalisation rate seems very low as well, considering this includes the most vulnerable part of the population.

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 07:59PM

Nursing homes doing well in Scotland:

https://twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1382761742997061637?s=21

is_that_so · 15-04-2021 08:00PM

Furze99 wrote: »

It's perfectly possible for the HSE to have the portal, get people to register and have a tick box for this Astra Zennica vaccine. Send out appointments for these people and deal with all others on age related basis when alternative stocks come in. That is not rocket science. You get people registered saying yes, they will take a vaccine and here are my details. Sorting them into two categories afterwards is easy.

Threatening 400K citizens who might qualms over this Astra Zennica vaccine with going to the end of the queue is not good politics. In fact it's plain stupid politics, remember this is an age cohort who are inclined to vote. FG seem intent lately with antagonising the electorate, have they lost their political noses?

At least 26,000 say yes already. It's been HSE policy all along: nobody chooses their vaccines and you'll have to wait if you don't take what's offered. You can't run a national programme based on personal whims.

timsey tiger · 15-04-2021 08:00PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Lol It’s very predictable the posters that usually reply. So you’re ok with a re reg coming on just to specially attack positive posts? That figures :rolleyes:

Whatever. I said nothing about the rereg. As usual, with you 2+2 = 5.

TomOnBoard · 15-04-2021 08:12PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

So what would your idea be for planning for the worst?

Off the top of my head:

1. Ensure that vaccination is made available to 2nd/3rd World countries ASAP to remove the host population in which the virus can mutate;
2. Incorporate Lateral Flow Testing into everyday life for the forseeable future, to ensure any flare-ups are dealt with immediately;
3. Ensure that all vaccine manufacturers conduct regular re-design and re-engineering of their vaccines, incorporating feedback loops that assess new variants for evasion potential;
4. Focus on treatments for illness caused by Covid and similar viruses, with international funding of research efforts that avoid patent and intellectual property barriers to information/knowledge -sharing;
5. Develop improved protective equipment and systems on public transport, in hospitals etc.
6. Develop improved personal protective products for individuals, such as masks, nasal pH reduction/virus blocking products, home air cleaning equipment etc.
7. Plan adequate clean air / ventilation/virus control systems into all new buildings;
...
...
There's a few for you.. I'm sure we can all think of more ways we can improve things so that we don't get caught out like we were a year ago..

Degag · 15-04-2021 08:13PM

VonLuck wrote: »

Whilst 0.008% is a tiny percentage, I'm surprised that the hospitalisation from that cohort is as high as 7%. Is there a suggestion that if you're vaccinated and get infected that it's likely to be a more severe dose?

I don't know but it's <6 people per million by my calculations.

Unfortunate for those people but very acceptable on an overall scale.

Micky 32 · 15-04-2021 08:14PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

Whatever. I said nothing about the rereg. As usual, with you 2+2 = 5.

No, you qouted my post about the re reg. :rolleyes:

Strazdas · 15-04-2021 08:15PM

Polar101 wrote: »

Finland has been keeping stats on infections in vaccinated people.

1.25 million people vaccinated (1st dose)
- 781 infections reported (= 0.06% breakthrough infections)
- 45 of those hospitalised (0.0036% of total, or 5.76% of those who were infected)
- 4 ended in ICU
- death number is unknown

So 99.94% of the vaccinated people didn't get Covid (so far, obviously). Hospitalisation rate seems very low as well, considering this includes the most vulnerable part of the population.

Very encouraging - we could be in good shape by the middle of summer.

15-04-2021 08:19PM

Furze99 wrote: »

It's perfectly possible for the HSE to have the portal, get people to register and have a tick box for this Astra Zennica vaccine. Send out appointments for these people and deal with all others on age related basis when alternative stocks come in. That is not rocket science. You get people registered saying yes, they will take a vaccine and here are my details. Sorting them into two categories afterwards is easy.

Threatening 400K citizens who might qualms over this Astra Zennica vaccine with going to the end of the queue is not good politics. In fact it's plain stupid politics, remember this is an age cohort who are inclined to vote. FG seem intent lately with antagonising the electorate, have they lost their political noses?

The clotting issue is affecting younger people, mostly under 50s. Covid is much more dangerous for older people.

Why do you think you are at risk from AZ? The clotting issue doesn't affect your age group.

Why do you want a younger person, who has a higher risk of clotting and a relatively low risk from covid, to take AZ instead of you?

You should watch the NIAC briefing.

JTMan · 15-04-2021 08:34PM

FT article says CureVac hoping for "May or June" for approval. With a bit of luck, we might have some CureVac vaccines in June.

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1382763207782244358?s=19

Cork2021 · 15-04-2021 08:40PM

JTMan wrote: »

FT article says CureVac hoping for "May or June" for approval. With a bit of luck, we might have some CureVac vaccines in June.

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1382763207782244358?s=19

Any idea to what’s already produced ready to go?

Miike · 15-04-2021 08:54PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

My response was a challenge to your categorical statements that "Coronavirus is nothing like the flu, mutates much slower. Thus, vaccinations don't need to be annual.". There is no evidence for your comment that it " mutates much slower". Within a year, we've had a number of such mutations, and there are likely to be others out there, particularly in countries that have limited access to vaccines, that have not been identified yet. Thus far, the current vaccines appear to remain effective against the known variants, although the French ones are still somewhat of an unknown quantity. At any time, that could change, hence my observation that we are unlikely to get a 3-year window as you suggest.

You may well be right, though and I hope you are. But there's so much about this that we don't know, so a strategy that hopes for the best while planning for the worst would appear to me to be mosr appropriate.

We know that SARS-CoV-2 doesn't mutate at the same rate as influenza viruses because there is proof reading mechanisms in SARS-CoV-2 that don't exist in influenza. That doesn't mean it doesn't mutate at all, just at a lesser rate compared with flu viruses.

EG: Antigenic shift is a major problem with influenza viruses. Whereby the RNA is made up of genome segments that can undergo reassortment. SARS-CoV-2's genome is not made up of segments and doens't really reassort but it can recombine with a different strain/variant

More info because I'm half asleep: https://www.astrazeneca.com/what-science-can-do/topics/disease-understanding/the-natural-evolution-of-sars-cov-2.html

To change gear a bit; I'm involved in a piece of research where participants are also the age being targeted by current vaccination cohorts. Having met with them today was a real joy. I'm on a high from hearing how happy they are to get vaccination appointments

Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

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