Vaccine Megathread - See OP for threadbans

ceegee wrote: »

Surely there's enough of an argument to push out the pfizer 2nd doses by a few weeks. Even pushing it to 6 weeks would speed up the number of people with one dose significantly

Given the high level of protection from the first shot there’s a very good argument to be made to give one shot to everyone in the country.

BigMo1 wrote: »

Seriously? We have taken the most conservative action at nearly every turn during this pandemic.

Firstly you have to look at incidence. On the face of it with numbers so far (not all that large a dataset but its what we have to go on), AZ would appear to have a higher incidence of these types of rare events than J&J. The states have a very widespread vaccine programme in all adult ages now, 7 million doses, 6 events. Compare & contrast to the Irish expected delivery before end of Q2, you wouldn't expect to see a case from 880k doses.

Now look at AZ, higher frequency than that, let's take the UK for example seeing as they've given out the most AZ, 79 events in 20 million doses, so 1 every 253k roughly. Ireland has seen potentially 1 in the same ballpark of AZ vaccines given out.

Apply the J&J numbers so far to 20 million doses, you might expect in the region of 15 or so events.

Secondly then is the risk, with AZ given it's a 2 dose schedule with a long interval you can kind of take more conservative decisions around it. Compare to J&J , 1 shot and done. The risk beneift profile is different

ACitizenErased wrote: »

J&J Vaccine being paused in the USA.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/johnson-johnson-vaccine-blood-clots-fda-cdc.html

This thread is going down in boards posterity.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In all age cohorts, the risk of dying from Covid-19 is much greater than the risk of dying from a Covid-19 vaccine.

The number thrown around is that 1 out of 250000 for the vaccine might dye, while https://qcovid.org/Calculation gives me 1 out of 333333 chance of dying if I get covid.
I'm not saying that the vaccine is not safe, should not be used, be an anti-vax etc... in fact if I was offered AZ I would do it since the probability of dying is infinitesimal anyway and vaccines are the only way we will reopen our society. But realize that if you're young and healthy, the chance of dying because of covid is really small too.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Firstly you have to look at incidence. On the face of it with numbers so far (not all that large a dataset but its what we have to go on), AZ would appear to have a higher incidence of these types of rare events than J&J. The states have a very widespread vaccine programme in all adult ages now, 7 million doses, 6 events. Compare & contrast to the Irish expected delivery before end of Q2, you wouldn't expect to see a case from 880k doses.

Now look at AZ, higher frequency than that, let's take the UK for example seeing as they've given out the most AZ, 79 events in 20 million doses, so 1 every 253k roughly. Ireland has seen potentially 1 in the same ballpark of AZ vaccines given out.

Apply the J&J numbers so far to 20 million doses, you might expect in the region of 15 or so events.

Secondly then is the risk, with AZ given it's a 2 dose schedule with a long interval you can kind of take more conservative decisions around it. Compare to J&J , 1 shot and done. The risk beneift profile is different

I 100% agree the risk benefit profile is different but I'd argue the risk-benefit ratio is hugely in favour of full rollout of both.

Ireland's policy has been really conservative to this. I'd be quite surprised if that changes in relation to this, especially after how prominent this clot news has become.

I hope I'm wrong.

There's a credibility issue opening up rapidly. If the HSE and State don't address it quickly, then the AZ vaccine is 'f****d' here.

I've read & listened to them this morning. Essentially the message is 'we're not giving this to anyone under 60' but 'we've also used other vaccines on over 70s'.

That leaves a cohort of citizens aged between 60-70 who are expected to take this?? To use up vaccine supplies delivered, speed up the process and take their chances?? Sorry.............. no go.

What vaccines are Ronan Glynn, Tony Holohan, Leo Varadkar or the Minister for Health taking or going to take???

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Iagree wrote: »

It makes me confident that when I do get a vaccine it will be safe.

What do you actually think the outcome of this will be?

That they will ditch the AZ vaccine completely, even though that would likely result in far more deaths than there ever would be from blood clots?

That they modify the vaccine in some way? That seems, unlikely...

That they **** about for a few weeks and then start using it again anyway? Again, despite that causing more deaths than would be saved?

This is all just irresponsible grandstanding from incompetent and indecisive leadership.

ebbsy wrote: »

Had a look on Sky News just now, the Chemists in the UK are jabbing to beat the band.

Over here ? Our people who work in the chemists have not even got theirs yet.

When we had the banking crisis we received a loan from the UK.

It is now time to ask them for help again. There is no shame.

At this point I'm convinced you're a paid up Tory member with all your propaganda posts.

Just something for you to note, they were the ones that wouldn't let us pay it back early without penalty as they wanted to get all the interest they could possibly get out of us.

Iagree wrote: »

In the short term yes, but long term don't agree with that all, it will only increase the confidence in vaccine safety if they are going to ban vaccines with 1 in a million blood clot risk, that's a statement of quality required.

As a member of the general public and not a medical person, I take great confidence in goverments brave enough to suspend vaccine's from pharmaceutical giants, they could have just ignored it and ploughed on like alot of posters here want to do, but that would have been much worse for the public's confidence in vaccine's, by banning J&J and Astra that tells me a non scientific individual that the other 2 Pfizer and Moderna are incredibly safe if they are willing to ban vaccine's that cause death 1 in a million

Thats a bit simplestic though in these circumstances where the over the overall health and well being of the population has to be considered , not just the risk at an individual level.

They are using the same principles as if it was a vaccine for a smaller cohort only like HPV or Flu or whatever, which is understandable but very frustrating in the far broader context of there being a national/global health crisis.

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The J&C vaccine uses the same vector as the AZ vaccine. There is a very good chance that the same age restrictions will be placed on the J&C vaccine that have been placed on the AZ vaccine if the same blood clot trend emerges. Unfortunately it seems that trend is emerging.

Current data suggests J&J has 5 times less so I disagree tbh.

Also they're not the same vector. AZ is from chimps, J&J is a human adenovirus

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Current data suggests J&J has 5 times less so I disagree tbh.

Also they're not the same vector. AZ is from chimps, J&J is a human adenovirus

Yes, 7m doses administered in the US and six cases (so far).

I'm optimistic any age restriction on the viral vectors will be adjusted once the underlying cause of the adverse events is understood. Or, at the very least, the risk is.

I do feel NIAC have pinned themselves into a corner with such a high age restriction and no underlying conditions. It'll be very difficult not to impose similar restrictions on J and J now if the reporting trends of adverse events continues. There's a clear safety signal that needs investigating and on the face of it things sound very similar to AZ.

Pussyhands wrote: »

Well well well, the US now calling for a halt on the JNJ vaccine due to blood clots...

Guess those "nutjobs" saying they had concerns about a vaccine rushed through without the full effects being known were onto something after all.

Looking forward to the "it's still less risky than getting the virus!" comments.

You won’t be so smug when the vaccine green passes and passports come in, i’m sure you’ll be whinging on here when that happens :pac:

Pussyhands wrote: »

Well well well, the US now calling for a halt on the JNJ vaccine due to blood clots...
Guess those "nutjobs" saying they had concerns about a vaccine rushed through without the full effects being known were onto something after all.
Looking forward to the "it's still less risky than getting the virus!" comments.

Not sure what sort of trial you think would have detected this. How many people would you have to enrol?
This has nothing to do with he speed of vaccine development.

Jesus christ this thread has been infested