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What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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Comments

  • #5582
    Yonce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 116 ✭✭Yonce


    Cazale wrote: »
    Sister in law got her first AZ vaccine in late February. Travelled in a car for 30 minutes with a work colleague at weekend who wasn't vaccinated and ended up getting covid from her. Danger of letting the guard down thinking one vaccination is enough.

    It is the danger.
    Who knows if two vaccines will even be enough at this stage..


  • #5583
    ddarcy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    Zipppy wrote: »
    Anyone any ideas what happens to those under 60s who were due AZ vax this week?

    If it’s you’re first dose, you’ll get something different. Although you may have a delay pending on the supply logistics, etc. Probably expect something next week if lucky.

    You’d think the NAIC would have known this and they would have a competent plan for the announcement, but this is the Irish civil service to a core unfortunately, so no plan and don’t expect one to develop quickly either.


  • #5584
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    ddarcy wrote: »
    If it’s you’re first dose, you’ll get something different. Although you may have a delay pending on the supply logistics, etc. Probably expect something next week if lucky.

    You’d think the NAIC would have known this and they would have a competent plan for the announcement, but this is the Irish civil service to a core unfortunately, so no plan and don’t expect one to develop quickly either.
    Actually what they have said is the vaccine should not be given to anyone who developed unusual blood clots with low platelets after the first dose. Otherwise people will get a second shot either after a 12 or 16 week interval.


  • #5585
    deeperlearning
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭deeperlearning


    robinph wrote: »
    Currently, yes, the main UK supplier is Astra Zeneca. Pfizer is only the 6th biggest order which the UK has placed though, and they have only received half of it so far. They have the vast majority of vulnerable groups vaccinated, and hundreds of millions of other vaccines on order which will arrive just as soon as anywhere else gets them. Whilst the UK rate of vaccination is slowing down from last month, I don't see any disaster looming there.


    Even the CMO in England believes that there will be a further wave of deaths in the UK in the coming months.

    The removal of restrictions will give variants the opportunity to spread and one dose of AstraZeneca offers little protection against variants. Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were found to have around 10% efficacy in a small trial in South Africa where the B.1.351 variant is dominant.


  • #5586
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,754 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Asstrazeneca, what a disaster.


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  • #5587
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    deeperlearning wrote: »
    Even the CMO in England believes that there will be a further wave of deaths in the UK in the coming months.

    The removal of restrictions will give variants the opportunity to spread and one dose of AstraZeneca offers little protection against variants. Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were found to have around 10% efficacy in a small trial in South Africa where the B.1.351 variant is dominant.

    What was the prevalence of severe Covid-19 in that study?


  • #5588
    Icantthinkof1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 410 ✭✭Icantthinkof1


    Cazale wrote: »
    Sister in law got her first AZ vaccine in late February. Travelled in a car for 30 minutes with a work colleague at weekend who wasn't vaccinated and ended up getting covid from her. Danger of letting the guard down thinking one vaccination is enough.

    Hopefully the fact she had the 1st dose back in February means that she’ll get a mild dose of Covid and suffer no serious ill effects
    Would be interesting to see how severe her Covid will be
    Op was/ is she symptomatic?
    It’s good to have this reminder I’m in the same boat had my 1st AZ shot in Feb and have def let my guard down more


  • #5589
    Multipass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    deeperlearning wrote: »
    Even the CMO in England believes that there will be a further wave of deaths in the UK in the coming months.

    The removal of restrictions will give variants the opportunity to spread and one dose of AstraZeneca offers little protection against variants. Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were found to have around 10% efficacy in a small trial in South Africa where the B.1.351 variant is dominant.

    There will be further waves of deaths everywhere. The vaccines should help to flatten the curve. The difference between the uk and here is that finally someone has taken an overall view of public health, and acted in the public interest. Lockdown and restrictions are killing people too, and the fallout from them will continue to kill far into the future. People will die from covid, the sooner that is accepted the better for us all. If we zeroed in on any other illness to this degree we could save more lives, at the same incredible cost to other lives.


  • #5590
    ddarcy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Actually what they have said is the vaccine should not be given to anyone who developed unusual blood clots with low platelets after the first dose. Otherwise people will get a second shot either after a 12 or 16 week interval.

    I was assuming it was in relation to the first dose. If first dose you’ll on get it if 60-69.

    Second dose will be a bit of a logistical nightmare as it could be not done, 12 or 16 weeks. So the HSE is going to have to go through hundreds of thousands of records to plan. So assuming they have everything in hand to make a correct distinction as well too.

    It’s almost like it would be easier to start completely over with Pfizer / Moderna for the under 60’s...


  • #5591
    Sierra 117
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 629 ✭✭✭Sierra 117


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    What was the prevalence of severe Covid-19 in that study?


    It couldn't be measured because all of the participants were young adults in their 30s with no underlying conditions.


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  • #5592
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Sierra 117 wrote: »
    It couldn't be measured because all of the participants were young adults in their 30s with no underlying conditions.

    Hmm. Think I'll wait for better studies.


  • #5593
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    josip wrote: »
    Perhaps this ?

    https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1379770246194737157?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1379770370434158595%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D116815271

    I would expect July doses to be at least the same as June.
    Pfizer will (reliable) deliver more doses in June than AZ hope (unreliable) to, in all of Q2.
    Pfizer July doses alone, would clear any AZ-related Q2 deficit.

    Oh right, because you know their predictions thus far for vaccines delivered under the EU scheme have been wrong? I do like your optimism that Pfizer will be reliable though, fingers crossed eh? You do know Pfizer have a massive presence in Ireland and manufacture vaccines here? Shame our government could not have leveraged that and come to an arrangement with them to produce their covid vaccine, eh? Still better to leave all that stuff to Brussels :o


  • #5594
    ddarcy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    Bambi wrote: »
    Oh right, because you know their predictions thus far for vaccines delivered under the EU scheme have been wrong? I do like your optimism that Pfizer will be reliable though, fingers crossed eh? You do know Pfizer have a massive presence in Ireland and manufacture vaccines here? Shame our government could not have leveraged that and come to an arrangement with them to produce their covid vaccine, eh? Still better to leave all that stuff to Brussels :o

    Pfizer produce viagra here. I guess that’s a vaccine ensuring some lads get the ride. This vaccine is only produced in Belgium and the US now. The US will have another plant online in a week and the EU is funding a plant in Germany more as well too.

    The problem is the HSE, with no research put all their eggs in the AZ/Oxford basket. It’s it’s coming back to haunt them now.


  • #5595
    Ashbourne hoop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭Ashbourne hoop


    Bambi wrote: »
    Oh right, because you know their predictions thus far for vaccines delivered under the EU scheme have been wrong? I do like your optimism that Pfizer will be reliable though, fingers crossed eh? You do know Pfizer have a massive presence in Ireland and manufacture vaccines here? Shame our government could not have leveraged that and come to an arrangement with them to produce their covid vaccine, eh? Still better to leave all that stuff to Brussels :o

    About the vaccine manufacturers- you can’t just use any facility to make it. Can take years to get a active facility ready. Because it’s injected it needs clean room type environment and to be completely sterile. Much more difficult than simply making tablets.

    Merck are making the J&J vaccine in US - and US government helped fund the millions of $ (over$100m) needed to covert plant from making one type of vaccine to make this other type. It’s that tailored!!


  • #5596
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,432 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    ddarcy wrote: »
    Pfizer produce viagra here. I guess that’s a vaccine ensuring some lads get the ride. This vaccine is only produced in Belgium and the US now. The US will have another plant online in a week and the EU is funding a plant in Germany more as well too.

    The problem is the HSE, with no research put all their eggs in the AZ/Oxford basket. It’s it’s coming back to haunt them now.

    They didn't put all their eggs into AZ.
    They took up the full allocation of Pfizer.
    Some EU countries didn't take their full allocation of Pfizer and are more reliant on AZ - possibly for reasons of cost \ ease of handling.

    There will also be allocations of J&J vaccines.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #5597
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    deeperlearning wrote: »
    In the UK, the bulk of their vaccines are AZ and they cannot afford to stop using the AZ vaccine as they are completely dependent on it for their vaccine programme. Hence, it is used on everyone over 30.

    In Ireland, it is just over 20% of our supplies but we still need it for now. Hence, it is only used for 60-69 year-olds and this group will use up to 800,000+ doses which will be supplied in Q2. In July, we won't need AZ as there are plenty of other vaccines coming on stream.

    In the US, there is now a plentiful supply of vaccine. The US won't use AZ on anyone.
    I think there's a problem with the messages being sent out however.

    The adverse affects of AZ are so rare, we are told, that it is only in the over 60's does the balance tip in favour of its use. Those under 60 are better off waiting for a non-AZ shot. However if this is the case why bother getting a shot at all, since the virus itself, according to the messages being sent out, can't be that dangerous?

    The answer to this will probably be that for the good of the community you should get the vaccine since you are less likely to spread the vaccine once vaccinated. However if we're going to bring in community rationales, then should we not also consider the effect extended shutdowns have on the general well-being of society?


  • #5598
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 232 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Multipass wrote: »
    People will die from covid, the sooner that is accepted the better for us all. If we zeroed in on any other illness to this degree we could save more lives, at the same incredible cost to other lives.

    That's exactly the thing.

    People have anthromorphised this virus like no other before, and a sizeable minority have lifted it wholesale and used it to fill the gap where other people have personalities and hobbies.

    For large portions of our population, Covid is their whole life. Twitching their curtains and running online to denounce neighbours and family members who commit minor transgressions of The Regulations is an all-consuming passion.

    They won't give this up easily.


  • #5599
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Ashbourne hoop wrote: »
    About the vaccine manufacturers- you can’t just use any facility to make it. Can take years to get a active facility ready. Because it’s injected it needs clean room type environment and to be completely sterile. Much more difficult than simply making tablets.

    Merck are making the J&J vaccine in US - and US government helped fund the millions of $ (over$100m) needed to covert plant from making one type of vaccine to make this other type. It’s that tailored!!

    I didnt mention tablets, Pfizer produce vaccines in Ireland.

    Of course, we couldnt have the same as the Americans and the Brits, of course. 100m would be prohibitive for us, remind me how much we're paying out in PUP every month?

    Do you know why the Oxford vaccine is called Astra Zenica? Because the British government told Oxford it needed to be manufactured in the UK so they needed to partner with a UK based firm.

    If you're offering up excuses here's a good one: Our government was happy to delegate to the European Commission because it was the safest option for the government.


  • #5600
    dogbert27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    Bambi wrote: »
    I didnt mention tablets, Pfizer produce vaccines in Ireland.

    Of course, we couldnt have the same as the Americans and the Brits, of course. 100m would be prohibitive for us, remind me how much we're paying out in PUP every month?

    Do you know why the Oxford vaccine is called Astra Zenica? Because the British government told Oxford it needed to be manufactured in the UK so they needed to partner with a UK based firm.

    If you're offering up excuses here's a good one: Our government was happy to delegate to the European Commission because it was the safest option for the government.

    You're wrong. Here's an explainer for you:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/explainer-why-can-t-covid-19-vaccines-be-made-in-ireland-1.4507731


  • #5601
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    However if we're going to bring in community rationales, then should we not also consider the effect extended shutdowns have on the general well-being of society?
    There seems to be no consideration given about the cost of lockdown.

    Someone casually mentioned yesterday that it's "just a few weeks delay". I hate to say it but clearly that person is not on PUP or has a business they are hoping to open in the Summer.

    The Regulators are doing their job I accept that. Hopefully we don't see any vaccines lying around unused. If there are "spare" vaccines, hopefully good sense will prevail and they can be made available to anyone who is willing to take them, as a 1 in a million chance of a bad outcome sounds just fine to a lot of us.


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  • #5602
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,031 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    I think there's a problem with the messages being sent out however.

    The adverse affects of AZ are so rare, we are told, that it is only in the over 60's does the balance tip in favour of its use. Those under 60 are better off waiting for a non-AZ shot. However if this is the case why bother getting a shot at all, since the virus itself, according to the messages being sent out, can't be that dangerous?


    Because any delay in getting a vaccine would be a few weeks and the vaccine should last for years?

    A 59 year old person is certainly at risk from Covid.


  • #5603
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    dogbert27 wrote: »
    You're wrong. Here's an explainer for you:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/explainer-why-can-t-covid-19-vaccines-be-made-in-ireland-1.4507731

    You should read articles before you post them :o

    "Could vaccines be produced in the State if required?

    Yes, but this would take time and money, and would not solve the immediate short-term problem of vaccine shortages and delays to the promised supply of doses into the State"

    Michael and Leo flying kites in 2021 about vaccine production here is just arse covering as ther article points out. The time to have done this was this time last year, when Trump and Johnson were steaming ahead.


  • #5604
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,059 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Bambi wrote: »
    Oh right, because you know their predictions thus far for vaccines delivered under the EU scheme have been wrong? I do like your optimism that Pfizer will be reliable though, fingers crossed eh? You do know Pfizer have a massive presence in Ireland and manufacture vaccines here? Shame our government could not have leveraged that and come to an arrangement with them to produce their covid vaccine, eh? Still better to leave all that stuff to Brussels :o

    Pfizer and Moderna have clearly communicated delivery schedules in Q1 and in the case of Pfizer they have delivered as projected, so I have confidence in their Q2 projections.

    Pfizer do not make vaccines in Ireland.

    Not sure what point you're trying to make re govt/Brussels.


  • #5605
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,277 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Yeah Pfizer have been over-delivering to date. Estimates being revised upwards and met.


  • #5606
    Paddigol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Bambi wrote: »
    You should read articles before you post them :o

    So you're saying that Pfizer do produce vaccines in Ireland?


  • #5607
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,717 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Bambi wrote: »
    You should read articles before you post them :o

    "Could vaccines be produced in the State if required?

    Yes, but this would take time and money, and would not solve the immediate short-term problem of vaccine shortages and delays to the promised supply of doses into the State"

    Michael and Leo flying kites in 2021 about vaccine production here is just arse covering as ther article points out. The time to have done this was this time last year, when Trump and Johnson were steaming ahead.

    You're suggesting that Ireland should have opted out of the EU scheme and tried to secure its own vaccines. But that could have proved disastrous - we would not have received the 1m EU sourced vaccines this year and there's no guarantee we could have found 1m somewhere else.


  • #5608
    Cazale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Cazale


    Paddigol wrote:
    So you're saying that Pfizer do produce vaccines in Ireland?

    Not the Covid vaccine but they do produce vaccines in Ireland.


  • #5609
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ddarcy wrote: »
    Pfizer produce viagra here. I guess that’s a vaccine ensuring some lads get the ride. This vaccine is only produced in Belgium and the US now. The US will have another plant online in a week and the EU is funding a plant in Germany more as well too.

    The problem is the HSE, with no research put all their eggs in the AZ/Oxford basket. It’s it’s coming back to haunt them now.

    20% of their eggs more like.


  • #5610
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭take everything


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You couldnt make up the incompetence.

    Not safe for over 70s

    Not safe for under 60s.

    There goes the 80% vaccinated by June.

    They are determined not to let us recover.

    They are spinless.

    We will not have enough arms for az now.

    1 milliin doses q2.

    Too small a cohort 60s only.

    I really dislike this goernment/niac/nphet.

    This bureauracy is tolerable in normal times. Its a national emegency. One person in over 200,000 got a blood clot in brain and is recovering. Totally disproprtionate response. I could understand if we were swimming in pfzier jabs. We are not.

    We are paying for our claim culture now.

    Tony got a break in this post.
    Claim culture makes it in though.


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  • #5611
    Cazale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Cazale


    Icantthinkof1 wrote:
    Hopefully the fact she had the 1st dose back in February means that she’ll get a mild dose of Covid and suffer no serious ill effects Would be interesting to see how severe her Covid will be Op was/ is she symptomatic? It’s good to have this reminder I’m in the same boat had my 1st AZ shot in Feb and have def let my guard down more

    Only a slight sore throat. When the person in the car got a positive result she got a test but wouldn't have otherwise. Hopefully it's a mild enough dose.


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