What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

I didnt mention tablets, Pfizer produce vaccines in Ireland.

Bambi wrote: »

You should read articles before you post them

"Could vaccines be produced in the State if required?

Yes, but this would take time and money, and would not solve the immediate short-term problem of vaccine shortages and delays to the promised supply of doses into the State".

Ugh, what a slimy manoeuvre. Pathetic.

ddarcy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

20% of their eggs more like.

It’s was more. This was supposed to be the single injection solution workhorse. It’s fallen down in percent because Moderna and especially Pfizer have upped their game. J&J were going to over deliver as well, but I’d say this will get suspended here too. So it’s going to come down to Novovax and Curevax to make up the numbers.

The big thing to watch out for is will the FDA give EUA for AstraZenica. Given they don’t need to, I can see this as the absolute hammer blow to it. Astra will be forced to go through the non EUA route, so could be waiting until next year for a decision.

fly_agaric

Bambi wrote: »

You should read articles before you post them

"Could vaccines be produced in the State if required?

Yes, but this would take time and money, and would not solve the immediate short-term problem of vaccine shortages and delays to the promised supply of doses into the State"

Michael and Leo flying kites in 2021 about vaccine production here is just arse covering as ther article points out. The time to have done this was this time last year, when Trump and Johnson were steaming ahead.

Trump had leverage over pretty much all the Western Pharma MNCs because the US is a huge market, many of the companies are American, they do a lot of R & D and production in the US. US govt. also paid them ungodly amounts of money.

Boris Johnson/UK had leverage over AZ specifically and have deployed that to their advantage to get preferential treatment over the EU and every other customer for the AZ vaccine on Earth.

What leverage do Ireland have over Pfizer to both direct them to start producing the Biontech vaccine in Ireland and then also force them to provide product produced in Ireland (7 m doses or so) exclusively to HSE ahead of every other desperate customer in Europe and around the world?

There must be something. More than just asking very, very nicely on bended knee, or giving them lots and lots of money, neither of which would be likely to work in this crisis situation IMO.

How do you think other countries, or MNCs might respond to Ireland's bungled (very likely to fail) strong-arming of Pfizer like that?

You live in a walter mitty world (as you'd expect of someone admiring Trump and Boris and their "steaming ahead" + longs for the Irish version) and should come back to reality.

munchkin_utd

What is the point of Ireland producing a vaccine in a plant that'll take at least a year to get started and up and running AND certified ?

The new Marburg plant in Germany which has just started up will have a capacity of a billion doses a year with 100s of millions of doses already in the coming months over the summer/ autumn - on top of the other plants on the continent which are in operation and (the French) due to come online sometime when they get their @rse in gear

dogbert27

Bambi wrote: »

You should read articles before you post them

"Could vaccines be produced in the State if required?

Yes, but this would take time and money, and would not solve the immediate short-term problem of vaccine shortages and delays to the promised supply of doses into the State"

Michael and Leo flying kites in 2021 about vaccine production here is just arse covering as ther article points out. The time to have done this was this time last year, when Trump and Johnson were steaming ahead.

Any state giving a company time and money could produce vaccines in that state. The two problems in a pandemic being time and money.

Pfizer do produce 1 vaccine here. Prevnar 13, which is for Streptococcus pneumoniae, a bacteria, to protect infants and young children. It is not for a virus and it is a vaccine they inherited when they bought out Wyeth.

There is no Pfizer factory in Ireland currently equipped to be producing a Covid vaccine.

As pointed out Ireland doesn't have the billion dollars to throw at pharmaceutical companies that the US government had.

Also you're wrong about Trump and Johnson steaming ahead this time last year.

This time last year Trump was saying that it would miraculously just disappear in the summer followed by maybe injecting bleach or sticking uv light in to your lungs.

Johnson was flailing around not knowing whether to lock down or not.

Dyr

Strazdas wrote: »

You're suggesting that Ireland should have opted out of the EU scheme and tried to secure its own vaccines. But that could have proved disastrous - we would not have received the 1m EU sourced vaccines this year and there's no guarantee we could have found 1m somewhere else.

Pay attention. The was no EU scheme this time last year. That should have been the first red flag for our government. The Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Dutch were all angling for a seperate vaccine deal because they saw the EU was dithering..again. They actually formed a concord and had a deal with AZ signed for 100s of millions of doses. That was all put up on blocks by the European Commission when they used a emergency mechanism to bring vaccination purchase under their auspices. Of course the Germans still hedged their bets, quite wisely.

That did not happen until JUNE. So there was no EU scheme to opt out of until then. Which is why Trump snagged a vaccinne that was produced by a Germany company for US company, we were slow off the blocks as per usual.

Which brings us back to the optimism about all these vaccinnes that are inbound at some point to us under the EU scheme. I'd anticipate them in hope more than expectation at this stage.

https://www.vmicuk.com/pressrelease/construction-of-the-uks-new-vaccines-centre-starts-well-ahead-of-schedule-as-timelines-are-fast-tracked-due-to-covid-19-ag8mr

Dyr

dogbert27 wrote: »

Also you're wrong about Trump and Johnson steaming ahead this time last year.

This time last year Trump was saying that it would miraculously just disappear in the summer followed by maybe injecting bleach or sticking uv light in to your lungs.
.

What Trump said last year was very different to what Trump did, which was to aggresively seek out deals with potential vaccine producers. Which is why the Biontech (German company) vaccine is produced by Pfizer (US company) after a deal struck in March. It scared the **** out of the EU at the time and spurred Germany and others to strike out on their own

dogbert27

Bambi wrote: »

Pay attention. The was no EU scheme this time last year. That should have been the first red flag for our government. The Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Dutch were all angling for a seperate vaccine deal because they saw the EU was dithering..again. They actually formed a concord and had a deal with AZ signed for 100s of millions of doses. That was all put up on blocks by the European Commission when they used a emergency mechanism to bring vaccination purchase under their auspices. Of course the Germans still hedged their bets, quite wisely.

That did not happen until JUNE. So there was no EU scheme to opt out of until then. Which is why Trump snagged a vaccinne that was produced by a Germany company for US company, we were slow off the blocks as per usual.

Which brings us back to the optimism about all these vaccinnes that are inbound at some point to us under the EU scheme. I'd anticipate them in hope more than expectation at this stage.

Operation Warp speed didn't start until May 15th so again this time last year the Trump government had no plan.

The EU scheme was in place in June, wow a whole couple of weeks later. :rolleyes:

In June last year Europe was coming out of the first wave while America was still going through it's first wave having bodies buried in large pits.

I guess it's easy to forget such things when you're just intent on bashing the government and the EU.

Oh if only we could have been like the UK and US who between them have 700,000 dead.

deeperlearning

Bambi wrote: »

Pay attention..

What a childish response.

dogbert27

Bambi wrote: »

What Trump said last year was very different to what Trump did, which was to aggresively seek out deals with potential vaccine producers. Which is why the Biontech (German company) vaccine is produced by Pfizer (US company) after a deal struck in March. It scared the **** out of the EU at the time and spurred Germany and others to strike out on their own

You keep making claims without backing anything up.

The deal was made in June last year

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-agreement-us-government-600

What Trump says and what Trump does is always very different. That really epitomised his time in office.

take everything

deeperlearning wrote: »

Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were found to have only a 10.4% efficacy against the B.1.351 South Africa variant, according to a phase 1b-2 clinical trial published on Tuesday in the New England Journal of Medicine.

When restrictions are removed, the South African variant of Covid-19 will rip like wildfire through the UK.


Hopefully, enough people in Ireland will have the Pfizer vaccine to prevent a serious outbreak. At least, the Pfizer vaccine was 100% effective in preventing cases in South Africa, where the B.1.351 lineage is prevalent.

This is a point not to be ignored.
Wonder what the AZ cheerleaders' arguments will be if this comes to pass.

ddarcy

ddarcy wrote: »

It’s was more. This was supposed to be the single injection solution workhorse. It’s fallen down in percent because Moderna and especially Pfizer have upped their game. J&J were going to over deliver as well, but I’d say this will get suspended here too. So it’s going to come down to Novovax and Curevax to make up the numbers.

The big thing to watch out for is will the FDA give EUA for AstraZenica. Given they don’t need to, I can see this as the absolute hammer blow to it. Astra will be forced to go through the non EUA route, so could be waiting until next year for a decision.

Wrong, again

ACitizenErased

take everything wrote: »

This is a point not to be ignored.
Wonder what the AZ cheerleaders' arguments will be if this comes to pass.

That study is laughable, huge confidence intervals, wrong dosing regimen and questionable antibody tests

Bambi

Bambi wrote: »

Pay attention. The was no EU scheme this time last year. That should have been the first red flag for our government. The Germans, the French, the Spanish, the Dutch were all angling for a seperate vaccine deal because they saw the EU was dithering..again. They actually formed a concord and had a deal with AZ signed for 100s of millions of doses. That was all put up on blocks by the European Commission when they used a emergency mechanism to bring vaccination purchase under their auspices. Of course the Germans still hedged their bets, quite wisely.

That did not happen until JUNE. So there was no EU scheme to opt out of until then. Which is why Trump snagged a vaccinne that was produced by a Germany company for US company, we were slow off the blocks as per usual.

Which brings us back to the optimism about all these vaccinnes that are inbound at some point to us under the EU scheme. I'd anticipate them in hope more than expectation at this stage.

Where to begin

take everything

robinph wrote: »

Yeah, after this year there shouldn't really be any need for half the population to get vaccinated repeatedly for it. At the moment it's still about getting the cases so low that we can open things up again without overwhelming health systems and also so that we can handle influxes of people from other countries.

Once this has passed it will just be those who normally get the flu jab, possibly extending the range who are offered it a bit more than previously. Then within a couple of years it will be a combination flu/ covid jab. We'll then find the level of cases which society is able to accept, and get on with life.

Surely if Covid and it's variants become endemic yearly vaccination will be needed for people with the hundreds of thousands with underlying conditions also and not just for old people like the flu jab.

take everything

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And yet people are acting as if the sky is falling in.

I think the lads on here bleating that "it's an emergency" are really just worried about the health of the economy, not people's actual physical health.

(I understand that the physical health of the person and the health of the economy are linked but I'm just pointing out what these "it's an emergency" lads are really worried about)

take everything

take everything wrote: »

I think the lads on here bleating that "it's an emergency" are really just worried about the health of the economy, not people's actual physical health.

(I understand that the physical health of the person and the health of the economy are linked but I'm just pointing out what these "it's an emergency" lads are really worried about)

Oh completely. They couldn't care less if a bunch of young people die if it means they get a pint of Guinness sooner.

drunkmonkey

deeperlearning wrote: »

Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were found to have only a 10.4% efficacy against the B.1.351 South Africa variant, according to a phase 1b-2 clinical trial published on Tuesday in the New England Journal of Medicine.

When restrictions are removed, the South African variant of Covid-19 will rip like wildfire through the UK.


Hopefully, enough people in Ireland will have the Pfizer vaccine to prevent a serious outbreak. At least, the Pfizer vaccine was 100% effective in preventing cases in South Africa, where the B.1.351 lineage is prevalent.

The Pfizer vaccine isn't much use against the South African variant your immune system does a better job.

average_runner

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The Pfizer vaccine isn't much use against the South African variant your immune system does a better job.

That is not what they said, also alot of the research was based on one dose of the vaccine!!

blackcard

ddarcy wrote: »

It’s was more. This was supposed to be the single injection solution workhorse. It’s fallen down in percent because Moderna and especially Pfizer have upped their game. J&J were going to over deliver as well, but I’d say this will get suspended here too. So it’s going to come down to Novovax and Curevax to make up the numbers.

The big thing to watch out for is will the FDA give EUA for AstraZenica. Given they don’t need to, I can see this as the absolute hammer blow to it. Astra will be forced to go through the non EUA route, so could be waiting until next year for a decision.

Astra Zeneca was never going to be a single dose, are you just making stuff up?

brickster69

Aegir wrote: »

https://www.vmicuk.com/pressrelease/construction-of-the-uks-new-vaccines-centre-starts-well-ahead-of-schedule-as-timelines-are-fast-tracked-due-to-covid-19-ag8mr

Part of that is going to be Novavax second site and also Curevac.

Also they teamed up with GSK to do the filling from the super plant at Barnard Castle after talks stalled with the EU.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/gsk-novavax-vaccine-deal-helps-relieve-u-k-s-dependence-astrazeneca

LuckyLloyd

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The Pfizer vaccine isn't much use against the South African variant your immune system does a better job.

Wrong, very wrong. Actual facts:

- The coronavirus variant first discovered in South Africa is able to evade some of the protection of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a new Israeli study.
- The researchers found the prevalence of B.1.351 among patients who received two doses of the vaccine was about eight times higher than those who were unvaccinated.
- The researchers in the study noted the main caveat of the study was the same sample size.

deeperlearning

Deleted User wrote: »

Wrong, again

No, raind, you are in the wrong here.

Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID vaccine:
"Early trials were originally designed for a one-dose regimen, but researchers decided to add a booster after data showed that a single dose didn’t produce a strong enough immune response."
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00785-7

ddarcy

blackcard wrote: »

Astra Zeneca was never going to be a single dose, are you just making stuff up?

Nope. AZ was developed to be a single dose solution. They messed up in an early clinical trial (unfortunately this is an ongoing problem for them) and accidentally gave a half dose solution (June 2020). They were given emergency approval to give the full dose solution afterwards. They found that this had much higher results, but wasn’t initially planned. They then changed dosage and Phase III followed the two doses regimen. This is typical of clinical trials, usually though you have to go back and re-randomise and start a new study.

Btw Pfizer also initially tested one dose and various two dose solutions.

fly_agaric

This thread is becoming a great source of mis dis information on vaccines.

fly_agaric

fly_agaric wrote: »

This thread is becoming a great source of mis dis information on vaccines.

This whole sub forum is an avalanche of nonsense.

fly_agaric

brickster69 wrote: »

Part of that is going to be Novavax second site and also Curevac.

Also they teamed up with GSK to do the filling from the super plant at Barnard Castle after talks stalled with the EU.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/gsk-novavax-vaccine-deal-helps-relieve-u-k-s-dependence-astrazeneca

Don't know much about it but, reading through that looks like they are being straight that they don't see themselves as able to do a multi-hundreds of millions of doses order at this point in time, or they have decided to focus on UK.

Much better than promising sun moon and stars to multiple customers at same time + setting them up for barnies with each other in zero-sum power games over limited supply.

edit: found Reuters article about their dealings with the EU:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-novavax-exclusi-idUSKBN2BH2GY

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote: »

This whole sub forum is an avalanche of nonsense.

You can read around it to get some useful information, but sometimes the noise just shoots up and drowns out the signal!

deeperlearning

deeperlearning wrote: »

No, raind, you are in the wrong here.

Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID vaccine:
"Early trials were originally designed for a one-dose regimen, but researchers decided to add a booster after data showed that a single dose didn’t produce a strong enough immune response."
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00785-7

It was never identified as a one jab workhorse as claimed. In the early developed they moved to a two dose strategy, long before the vaccine was on the radar as a viable candidate.
In the early stages, no-one would have viewed AZ as being a major player in the eventual vaccine solutions