Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

saabsaab · 11-04-2021 09:59PM

Tazz T wrote: »

I'm confused now. you just said it only affected 'aviation'

No.

Tazz T · 11-04-2021 10:01PM

So other industries can 'seriously argue against restrictions'?

saabsaab · 11-04-2021 10:08PM

Tazz T wrote: »

So other industries can 'seriously argue against restrictions'?

They can argue but it shouldn't make any difference. Do you know anyone who had died from covid? Maybe not?

11-04-2021 10:11PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Not sure if you've read up on the cases but they were denied their appeals and were released by the courts. They were also told that just because Israel was removed from the list wasn't grounds to end their MHQ early.

That's incorrect. The courts have made no decision and it was a ministerial order that allowed them to leave.

11-04-2021 10:14PM

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Just to show how much of a joke this all is.Dropped off a few groceries their,to my old lad.Home from what some here call his "jollies" in lanza last saturday.He could have jogged around limerick licking everyone last 8 days.Not 1 call or text, to check up on him.Yet they were willing to detain people with negative pcr tests and fully jabbed,from visiting dying relatives.What the hell is going on?

I agree. Your father should be in the hotel too

jellies · 11-04-2021 10:18PM

" Anyone arriving overland into Ireland from Northern Ireland who has been in or through a designated state in the previous 14 days is responsible for making their own way to their pre-booked designated quarantine hotel within 4 hours. Please note that the UK also has mandatory hotel quarantine requirements which the traveller may have been required to fulfil before arriving into Ireland or Northern Ireland."

From gov.ie. You couldn't make this up. The civil servant that wrote this has either led a very sheltered life or they were smoking something.

There are practically no tourists coming to Ireland at the moment so anyone that really needs to get home will travel via NI and ignore the MHQ requirement.

Tazz T · 11-04-2021 10:19PM

I'm fully aware that people have died from covid. You're deflecting.

Many industries can argue against restrictions. You said they can't. And for the third time, the current ridiculous restrictions have no impact on whether or not variants come into the country. None. Absolutely none.

They are pointless.

But, unless you'd like to tell us about how you're unaffected by it, keep on telling people that it's okay that they lose their jobs and the economy gets stuffed due to an utterly disproportional and ineffective approach by our government.

Otherwise say nothing. Because it obviously doesn't affect you. You don't work in aviation, you don't run a pub, you don't take tourists round the cliffs or Moher and you don't run a B&B next to Shannon airport. You're grand.

@ saabsaab (mike pence)

saabsaab · 11-04-2021 10:23PM

Tazz T wrote: »

I'm fully aware that people have died from covid. You're deflecting.

Many industries can argue against restrictions. You said they can't. And for the third time, the current ridiculous restrictions have no impact on whether or not variants come into the country. None. Absolutely none.

They are pointless.

But, unless you'd like to tell us about how you're unaffected by it, keep on telling people that it's okay that they lose their jobs and the economy gets stuffed due to an utterly disproportional and ineffective approach by our government.

Otherwise say nothing. Because it obviously doesn't affect you. You don't work in aviation, you don't run a pub, you don't take tourists round the cliffs or Moher and you don't run a B&B next to Shannon airport. You're grand.

I know of two people who have died from it. Foreign travel is how it came and comes in that cannot be denied anything else is deflection.

Donald Trump · 11-04-2021 10:49PM

jellies wrote: »

" Anyone arriving overland into Ireland from Northern Ireland who has been in or through a designated state in the previous 14 days is responsible for making their own way to their pre-booked designated quarantine hotel within 4 hours. Please note that the UK also has mandatory hotel quarantine requirements which the traveller may have been required to fulfil before arriving into Ireland or Northern Ireland."

From gov.ie. You couldn't make this up. The civil servant that wrote this has either led a very sheltered life or they were smoking something.

There are practically no tourists coming to Ireland at the moment so anyone that really needs to get home will travel via NI and ignore the MHQ requirement.

Well jellies, I'm not sure what you would expect it to say - "well this is the rule but sure if you try to sidestep it, don't worry about it - you don't have to bother with it".

Some of the countries on the Irish quarantine list are also on the UK quarantine list. So you won't get to Belfast from Brazil for example without booking the UK MHQ which is more expensive than the Irish one.

And this isn't an issue for the EU citizens, but I think that, technically, if you are not a citizen and you arrive into the Republic via the North, then you are supposed to declare it. Obviously, some people would not do this. But if they later run into some other trouble, it could be brought up as an immigration violation.

saabsaab · 11-04-2021 10:53PM

At the risk of stating the bloody obvious..
From IT.

“The main concern obviously is that a variant will emerge that the vaccines don’t work so well for and that is the big concern.”
Prof Cormican said there are some concerns about how the vaccines will work for “some of the variants” but the expectation is they will work “against most of the variants to some degree, though it may work better for some than others”.

Donald Trump · 11-04-2021 10:56PM

saabsaab wrote: »

At the risk of stating the bloody obvious..
From IT.

“The main concern obviously is that a variant will emerge that the vaccines don’t work so well for and that is the big concern.”
Prof Cormican said there are some concerns about how the vaccines will work for “some of the variants” but the expectation is they will work “against most of the variants to some degree, though it may work better for some than others”.

Professor? More like shmo-fessor. What is he like? Off reading journals and interpreting scientific results. He should just read boards.ie expert postings to learn that the variants are actually grand and may not even exist.

Micky 32 · 11-04-2021 11:07PM

https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1381327347757031425?s=21

“”Though at this stage, there is no 'vaccine escape' viral lineage in circulation, despite claims to the contrary””.

Del Griffith · 11-04-2021 11:12PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Professor? More like shmo-fessor. What is he like? Off reading journals and interpreting scientific results. He should just read boards.ie expert postings to learn that the variants are actually grand and may not even exist.

Can we get the crayons over here again lads??

Still can't get your head around the fact that this is not a fear of variants that we know already, but a fear of variants, to quote, "that will emerge":

"Will
1. Verb
Future tense"

Ie: not currently around, in existence that we know of. Even 'will' is a big stretch, 'could'or 'may' emerge would be better suited but I guess the author knows his audience (plebs).

I know, it seems mind boggling stupid to cut off the country from the EU for fear of variants that don't currently exist that we know of. You'd be right, and I'd wager that's why no other country is doing it.

I know it seems only spineless bed wetters could support it, again you'd be right.

But it is what it is.

Donald Trump · 11-04-2021 11:37PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Can we get the crayons over here again lads??

Still can't get your head around the fact that this is not a fear of variants that we know already, but a fear of variants, to quote, "that will emerge":

"Will
1. Verb
Future tense"

Ie: not currently around, in existence that we know of. Even 'will' is a big stretch, 'could'or 'may' emerge would be better suited but I guess the author knows his audience (plebs).

I know, it seems mind boggling stupid to cut off the country from the EU for fear of variants that don't currently exist that we know of. You'd be right, and I'd wager that's why no other country is doing it.

I know it seems only spineless bed wetters could support it, again you'd be right.

But it is what it is.

Well Del, I would posit that it is only people hiding under their beds in basements that don't worry about local restrictions. And that's even a bit mental given that most houses in Ireland don't have basements. Except for people in Offaly who heard about Josef Fritzel and liked his ideas about close family members. But let's not get sidetracked here - If people have normal lives, then they'd prioritize getting those back to normal rather than worrying about a flight abroad. I suppose that one advantage of hiding under the bed would be that the person wouldn't be able to wet it.

So let's get down to facts. I shall try to calm you down.

Israel, a more or less fully vaccinated country, will not let any non-citizens in. Would you hazard a guess why that might be?

The UK, again with relatively a lot of vaccinated people, has a similar list to us.

But - aha - you said the EU. Well Germany won't allow entry from the US. https://de.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/

Are U.S. citizens permitted to enter? No (with a few exceptions, see below)
Germany will currently only allow EU citizens, EU residents, and residents of certain other specific countries to enter. The United States is not one of those countries.

But wait you say. You mean EU-to-EU countries?

France is listed in the areas of concern for Germany. You cannot travel from France to Germany unless you are an EU citizen or German resident. That is due to the prevalence of VOCs.

Below are some parts of Europe which are designated as High-Incidence areas for Germany. Some in the EU, some not. The same restrictions are in place:
Albania
Andorra
Armenia
Boznia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Estonia
France including all French overseas departments. (France is on two lists for them!!)
Hungary
Moldova
Montenegro
Netherlands
North Macedonia
Poland
Serbia
Slovenia
Sweden
Turkey (well part of it is in Eurpoe)
Ukraine

So you should relax rather than working yourself up into a state over comparisons that are not correct. By all means be against X, Y or Z. Bu there is not point in getting it into your head and upsetting yourself that Ireland is the only country with any sort of restrictions. It isn't.

Del Griffith · 11-04-2021 11:43PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well Del, I would posit that it is only people hiding under their beds in basements that don't worry about local restrictions. And that's even a bit mental given that most houses in Ireland don't have basements. Except for people in Offaly who heard about Josef Fritzel and liked his ideas about close family members. But let's not get sidetracked here - If people have normal lives, then they'd prioritize getting those back to normal rather than worrying about a flight abroad. I suppose that one advantage of hiding under the bed would be that the person wouldn't be able to wet it.

So let's get down to facts. I shall try to calm you down.

Israel, a more or less fully vaccinated country, will not let any non-citizens in. Would you hazard a guess why that might be?

The UK, again with relatively a lot of vaccinated people, has a similar list to us.

But - aha - you said the EU. Well Germany won't allow entry from the US. https://de.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/

But wait you say. You mean EU-to-EU countries?

France is listed in the areas of concern for Germany. You cannot travel from France Germany unless you are an EU citizen or German resident. That is due to the prevalence of VOCs.

Below are some parts of Europe which are designated as High-Incidence areas for Germany. Some in the EU, some not. The same restrictions are in place:
Albania
Andorra
Armenia
Boznia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Estonia
France including all French overseas departments. (France is on two lists for them!!)
Hungary
Moldova
Montenegro
Netherlands
North Macedonia
Poland
Serbia
Slovenia
Sweden
Turkey (well part of it is in Eurpoe)
Ukraine

So you should relax rather than working yourself up into a state over comparisons that are not correct. By all means be against X, Y or Z. Bu there is not point in getting it into your head and upsetting yourself that Ireland is the only country with any sort of restrictions. It isn't.

So you seem to have finally accepted it then, Ireland is imprisoning people on landing for fear of variants that don't exist.

The only EU country to do this to fellow EU countries too by golly he gets it.

Thank god, it took more explanation than most children need but we got there in the end.

Donald Trump · 11-04-2021 11:47PM

Del Griffith wrote: »

So you seem to have finally accepted it then, Ireland is imprisoning people on landing for fear of variants that don't exist.

The only EU country to do this to fellow EU countries too by golly he gets it.

Thank god, it took more explanation than most children need but we got there in the end.

No. They have quarantine in Germany too. And also in Israel for those who are allowed in (effectively returning citizens). Variants exist dude. SARS-CoV-2 is also real. I think we have been over this before.

Those countries I listed above, there are exemptions to enter Germany for EU citizens. But the people who enter under those exemptions still have to quarantine. The restrictions for quarantine depend on the health body in the local region. It isn't done on a federal level with Germany.

What do you think is happening in other countries? Are you perhaps looking at the new Reeling in the Years from the 2000's and not realising it is archive footage?

Edit: I can't get my head around the fact that you think the variants don't exist and all these countries are putting other countries on the list over imagined variants. Below is the recent German one

German list of countries with imaginary variants. Definitely not real variants. New World Order list wrote:

1. The following states are currently considered as areas of variant of concern:
Botswana (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 22 November 2020)
Brazil (since 19 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
Eswatini (since 31 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
France – the department Moselle (since 2 March 2021; already risk area since 9 January 2021)
Lesotho (since 31 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
Malawi (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
Mozambique (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
South Africa (since 13 January 2021; already a risk area since 15 June 2020)
Zambia (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)
Zimbabwe (since 7 February 2021; already high incidence area since 31 January 2021 and risk area since 15 June 2020)

Del Griffith · 11-04-2021 11:52PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

No. They have quarantine in Germany too. And also in Israel for those who are allowed in (effectively returning citizens). Variants exist dude. SARS-CoV-2 is also real. I think we have been over this before.

Those countries I listed above, there are exemptions to enter Germany for EU citizens. But the people who enter under those exemptions still have to quarantine. The restrictions for quarantine depend on the health body in the local region. It isn't done on a federal level with Germany.

What do you think is happening in other countries? Are you perhaps looking at the new Reeling in the Years from the 2000's and not realising it is archive footage?

So to be clear, you've accepted that Ireland is locking people in a hotel for fear of variants that don't exist yet?

Del Griffith · 11-04-2021 11:56PM

Ah the edit, furiously banging away at the keyboard at this time of night ha ha

Anyway, let's talk about Ireland - you've accepted then that no variant currently exists that we have knowledge of, that justifies imprisoning vaccinated, tested negative people on landing?

Can we establish that much even, without you barking off on some tangent for paragraph after paragraph?

You can admit that you've backtracked, it's OK..

Del Griffith · 11-04-2021 11:59PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ballouxfrancois/status/1381327347757031425?s=21

“”Though at this stage, there is no 'vaccine escape' viral lineage in circulation, despite claims to the contrary””.

Of course there isn't.

But what if someday there is?!

What if what if what if.. better hide, we can't be too careful!!!

Donald Trump · 12-04-2021 12:02AM

Del Griffith wrote: »

So to be clear, you've accepted that Ireland is locking people in a hotel for fear of variants that don't exist yet?

The people who have to go to the managed quarantine hotel are coming from areas that either have high rates of variants of concern or high rates of "regular" corona

How would you think that the countries might be assessed as having high rates of imaginary non-existent variants?

Do you think that Brazil is on the list because it has a particularly high incidence of one particular imaginary non-existent variant or maybe it just has millions of imaginary non-existent variants? Would you have any theories why they imagined a non-existing variant for France but didn't imagine one for Germany? Maybe they had to go for tea and biscuits and then finished early on the Friday and didn't get around to making up a name for the imaginary German one?

That you think they are imagining these variants and then further imagining high rates of same in random countries blows my mind. It is fascinating though.

Del Griffith · 12-04-2021 12:19AM

Ok we're still struggling.. no problem, let's go again from the top:

Variants exist. We know that.

Variants that break through vaccines (and dodge PCR tests) in such a way as to justify a 12 day imprisonment of healthy people? They don't exist, that we know of.

Ergo Ireland is doing this out of fear not of variants that we know exist, but of variants we currently do not know exist.

Let me know if you're still stuck.

Donald Trump · 12-04-2021 12:22AM

Del Griffith wrote: »

Ok we're still struggling.. no problem, let's go again from the top:

Variants exist. We know that.

Variants that break through vaccines (and dodge PCR tests) in such a way as to justify a 12 day imprisonment of healthy people? They don't exist, that we Del know's of.

Ergo Ireland is doing this out of fear not of variants that we know exist, but of variants we currently do not know exist.

Let me know if you're still stuck.

Had to do an oul' cheeky FYP there.

Do you still think that Ireland is the only EU country that has Health Officials that are listing these variants? You can go to the RKI for the German list. You can go to the US CDC for the US ones. Would you like me to send you links?

Germany fines carriers if they transport non-exempted people from those locations to Germany. If exempted people come from there, they have to quarantine. I'm not making this up.

12-04-2021 12:35AM

jellies wrote: »

" Anyone arriving overland into Ireland from Northern Ireland who has been in or through a designated state in the previous 14 days is responsible for making their own way to their pre-booked designated quarantine hotel within 4 hours. Please note that the UK also has mandatory hotel quarantine requirements which the traveller may have been required to fulfil before arriving into Ireland or Northern Ireland."

From gov.ie. You couldn't make this up. The civil servant that wrote this has either led a very sheltered life or they were smoking something.

There are practically no tourists coming to Ireland at the moment so anyone that really needs to get home will travel via NI and ignore the MHQ requirement.

What would you have written?

Del Griffith · 12-04-2021 04:53AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Had to do an oul' cheeky FYP there.

Do you still think that Ireland is the only EU country that has Health Officials that are listing these variants? You can go to the RKI for the German list. You can go to the US CDC for the US ones. Would you like me to send you links?

Germany fines carriers if they transport non-exempted people from those locations to Germany. If exempted people come from there, they have to quarantine. I'm not making this up.

I'm going to stop now as I suspect I might be talking to someone with genuine learning difficulties of some kind.

I'm glad we are in agreement that Ireland is imprisoning people for fear of variants that don't exist yet, as all currently known variants don't justify imprisoning healthy and vaccinated people. Let's leave it there.

kerrylad1 · 12-04-2021 05:43AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I agree. Your father should be in the hotel too

Lanzorte is not on the list.So why should he be detained in the hotel?

jellies · 12-04-2021 07:14AM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What would you have written?

Nothing. Because a quarantine system that is not coordinated with the UK (which whom we have a common travel area) and can easily be evaded via NI is a nonsense.

Let's say someone needs to get home from France. They will travel to London take a flight to Belfast and get a lift home. The virus doesn't care that they have evaded the quarantine system. This is simply not going to keep any global variants out of Ireland. So what is the point?

Donald Trump · 12-04-2021 08:11AM

Del Griffith wrote: »

I'm going to stop now as I suspect I might be talking to someone with genuine learning difficulties of some kind.

I'm glad we are in agreement that Ireland is imprisoning people for fear of variants that don't exist yet, as all currently known variants don't justify imprisoning healthy and vaccinated people. Let's leave it there.

You keep saying that "we are in agreement". Repeating it over and over like "rainman" doesn't make it true.

You still appear to think that the VOCs are imaginary. You think Ireland is the only country that has concerns about them. I give you sources to gently correct you, both on the details of their existence and examples of other countries that have imposed additional restrictions due to them, and your conclusion is that I agree with you that they don't exist.

I'm genuinely fascinated by this. Because what you write is there recorded and other people can read it too.

There are variants of concern. Lots of countries have additional restrictions related to these variants of concern.

Many countries on the continent have full prohibition on people coming from areas of high VOC. They won't be let in. Not MHQ. Just not let in under any circumstances. This is well publicised and I have pointed it out to you many times.

faceman · 12-04-2021 08:21AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Many countries on the continent have full prohibition on people coming from areas of high VOC. They won't be let in. Not MHQ. Just not let in under any circumstances. This is well publicised and I have pointed it out to you many times.

Those countries do not prevent their citizens and residents from entering nor do they require them to enter a MHQ

Donald Trump · 12-04-2021 08:28AM

faceman wrote: »

Those countries do not prevent their citizens and residents from entering nor do they require them to enter a MHQ

Correct. I pointed that out to him (although in the case of Germany, the quarantine restrictions are taken care of at a local level rather than Federal). Citizens and resident who have an exemption to come in still have to do a quarantine. Others are not allowed in.

My point to him was trying to correct his apparent belief that Ireland is the only country which identifies VOCs as an input parameter into making decisions on how to categorise other countries.

Up until about 3 weeks ago, if you were an American living in Ireland, or having arrived in Ireland for a month, and you then wanted to go to Germany (ignoring Irish restrictions here and assuming you could get out without worry), the Germans would not let you in because Ireland was on their VOC list. If an American had worked in Ireland for a year and got a job offer in Berlin, they wouldn't be allowed to enter Germany even though they would be "allowed" out of Ireland under Irish rules for essential travel.

12-04-2021 08:37AM

jellies wrote: »

Nothing. Because a quarantine system that is not coordinated with the UK (which whom we have a common travel area) and can easily be evaded via NI is a nonsense.

Let's say someone needs to get home from France. They will travel to London take a flight to Belfast and get a lift home. The virus doesn't care that they have evaded the quarantine system. This is simply not going to keep any global variants out of Ireland. So what is the point?

So you would have gone against your o superiors instructions? No, no you wouldn't and don't pretend you would. The law might be foolish but the civil servant didn't write the law.

kerrylad1 wrote: »

Lanzorte is not on the list.So why should he be detained in the hotel?

It is truly amazing that you can't get the point I was making. It was very very simple. It was, I thought, very simplistic.

You used your father being able to run around licking people as a reason why the hotels are stupid. I gave you a simple solution to that issue.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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