What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

09-04-2021 05:03PM

In fairness rolling out a vaccine to potentially every citizen in the country as quickly as possible in the midst of a global pandemic, mistakes and challenges are going to be made. I felt there would be from last year.

It might be easy to be reflective after the event when we are all safely vaccinated, but very frustrating to live through it.

We'll get there eventually.

Would be happy to receive AZ if offered.

Not the only vaccine with possible side effects (see link below).

Sure if everyone in the world took a long haul flight in the morning
how many would get sick.

No cure is perfect. We have to look at big picture.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0409/1208862-eu-medicines-agency-vaccine/

Goldengirl · 09-04-2021 05:56PM

Miike wrote: »

The UK is vaccinating most people now. Currently in Ireland the AZ vaccine is being used in at risk categories (medically vulnerable) and healthcare workers. The medically vulnerable group would have significantly higher risk of adverse outcomes following COVID19 infection, so the vaccine is certainly worth it for those identified as such in Ireland cohort 4. I think a lot of people have lost sight of that on this side of the Irish Sea

I don't think the poster you are replying to said that nor do I think that anybody here has mentioned people of high risk should be refusing vaccines .

Goldengirl · 09-04-2021 06:11PM

Miike wrote: »

If you read my comment prior to that one you'll see you just repeated what I've said. I'm just not interested in getting into one of those debates on here, they never go anywhere bar ending up getting called a "HSE shill" or something along a similar vein. So its better just nod and agree, nothing i post on here is going to change the minds of people who speak only outrage and negativity.

Their choice to refuse a vaccine mean it trickles down the sequence, the vaccine doesn't evaporate into thin air when they refuse it. There are plenty of people who are wholly satisfied to take AZ.

Again the discussion was around whether AZ would be withdrawn for younger age cohorts not high risk people ,and not people refusing vaccines .

This is a discussion forum where some appear to be so defensive as regards the vaccines that noone can mention the possibility that NIAC may follow the UK and other countries due to the now real if low risk to otherwise healthy people .
I am pro vaccine and would be encouraging all to listen to advice from NIAC and their medical providers . And I have been called pro NPHET etc myself .

However people CAN discuss whether that advice may change , or whether some vaccines may be referred for different age groups without being accused of all sorts " outrage , negativity " .
This thread is not just for one opinion .
Anyway....
Looks like J&J is being investigated now as well which will definitely lead to a review of who the vaccines are administered to.

Goldengirl · 09-04-2021 06:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Are there are any specific risk factors of blood clots in brain and AZ?

History of blood clotting?
Women?
Sedentary lifestyle?

Not any obvious risk factors unfortunately .
No .
More women than men but as it was being administered to young active women ie nurses that might be skewed the gender of those affected .
As above , not a sedentary lifestyle ,but more data needed.

It is thought to be none of the above but an autoimmune response causing the triggering of clotting and thrombocytopenia , a bit like the actual severe Covid illness can cause atypical clotting in patients .

Goldengirl · 09-04-2021 06:22PM

Turtwig wrote: »

Christ can you imagine if this ends up linked to the adenoviral vectors itself?
Be interesting to see how the other viral vector vaccines perform when the administration increases to levels similar to AZ.

J& j being investigated now unfortunately for similar clotting reactions.

drunkmonkey · 09-04-2021 06:24PM

fin12 wrote: »

It says a headache for 4 days then seek medical advice , I’m only two days in.

If it was me I wouldn't be waiting if the headache isn't going away.

Miike · 09-04-2021 06:28PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Again the discussion was around whether AZ would be withdrawn for younger age cohorts not high risk people ,and not people refusing vaccines .

This is a discussion forum where some appear to be so defensive as regards the vaccines that noone can mention the possibility that NIAC may follow the UK and other countries due to the now real if low risk to otherwise healthy people .
I am pro vaccine and would be encouraging all to listen to advice from NIAC and their medical providers . And I have been called pro NPHET etc myself .

However people CAN discuss whether that advice may change , or whether some vaccines may be referred for different age groups without being accused of all sorts " outrage , negativity " .
This thread is not just for one opinion .
Anyway....
Looks like J&J is being investigated now as well which will definitely lead to a review of who the vaccines are administered to.

I have not tried to, nor suggested that people don't discuss anything. I've responded to comments in context? I'm not completely sure what you're getting at. It may come as shock to you but like you've mentioned, this is all opinion and I've given mine.

I've simply stated comparing the UK's decision to change the age of the AZ vaccine is not a like-for-like comparison because we aren't vaccinating the same cohort or risk groups. That was context of the discussion on the thread.

Call me Al · 09-04-2021 07:19PM

I think there will be issues for NIAC and NPHET with the public if they do follow the UK u30 guideline, when the only case in the headlines here is that of a 40 year old woman.

fin12 · 09-04-2021 09:27PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If it was me I wouldn't be waiting if the headache isn't going away.

I’ve developed a lump now at back of head. I think I’ll just ring an out of service one tomorrow , I literally don’t know is it my anxiety or the vaccine? I have in the past had a headache that lasted two weeks so I really don’t know what’s going on.

Professor Moriarty · 09-04-2021 09:36PM

fin12 wrote: »

I’ve developed a lump now at back of head. I think I’ll just ring an out of service one tomorrow , I literally don’t know is it my anxiety or the vaccine? I have in the past had a headache that lasted two weeks so I really don’t know what’s going on.

Check this out and then decide. If you think it is serious, go to A&E.

embraer170 · 09-04-2021 10:03PM

fin12 wrote: »

I’ve developed a lump now at back of head. I think I’ll just ring an out of service one tomorrow , I literally don’t know is it my anxiety or the vaccine? I have in the past had a headache that lasted two weeks so I really don’t know what’s going on.

Boards.ie is not the place to give medical advice, but there are lymph nodes at the back of the neck. Nothing wrong with going to A&E and getting it checked out.

09-04-2021 10:08PM

Is it looking like we are not going to restrict Astrazeneca to certain ages here? I just feel they would have done it by now like all the other countries.

How could it take so much longer for them to decide?

Miike · 09-04-2021 10:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it looking like we are not going to restrict Astrazeneca to certain ages here? I just feel they would habe done it by now like all the other countries.

How could it take so much longer for them to decide?

I was expecting something NIAC today, to be honest but who the f knows at this stage.

murphaph · 09-04-2021 10:19PM

I would say just go to A&E and let them check that lump. It's possibly a swollen lymph node which is listed as a rare side effect but better safe than sorry.

Van.Bosch · 09-04-2021 11:31PM

Is there any reason why the clots are more likely in younger people?

Miike · 09-04-2021 11:37PM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Is there any reason why the clots are more likely in younger people?

They can't really figure out the pathogenic mechanisms for it. We just know that it's presenting very similar to a reaction (very rare one at that) thats seen in heparin induced thrombocytopenia which can result in CVST. It's a immunological reaction and there is a few papers out there now demonstrating the presence of these antibodies in patients with CVST from AZ.

Strazdas · 10-04-2021 12:21AM

Yet more delays with AZ (Financial Times)

AstraZeneca has slashed the number of Covid-19 shots it will deliver to EU nations this week by almost half, causing a hold-up that the company claimed would be temporary and was because of delayed testing of a batch of vaccines.

The company now expects to deliver 1.3m doses to the EU's 27 member states, plus Iceland and Norway, down from the 2.6m forecast for this week that it made in mid-March, according to documents seen by the Financial Times.

NeuralNetwork · 10-04-2021 12:26AM

We really need to be placing contingencies in place to just buy a lot more Pfizer and Moderna at this stage and forget AstraZeneca. It's clearly not able to produce a stable supply.

These announcements are becoming a running joke at this stage.

Wolf359f · 10-04-2021 12:28AM

Strazdas wrote: »

Yet more delays with AZ (Financial Times)

AstraZeneca has slashed the number of Covid-19 shots it will deliver to EU nations this week by almost half, causing a hold-up that the company claimed would be temporary and was because of delayed testing of a batch of vaccines.

The company now expects to deliver 1.3m doses to the EU's 27 member states, plus Iceland and Norway, down from the 2.6m forecast for this week that it made in mid-March, according to documents seen by the Financial Times.

Is that really a surprise?
It does sound like it's just a delay as they QC a batch, rather than low yield etc...
Meaning the shortfall should be made up in the weeks ahead.
What's that mean, only 14k for Ireland in a week, not their worst delivery yet, but jesus, it's making Moderna look reliable!

stephenjmcd · 10-04-2021 12:30AM

Strazdas wrote: »

Yet more delays with AZ (Financial Times)

AstraZeneca has slashed the number of Covid-19 shots it will deliver to EU nations this week by almost half, causing a hold-up that the company claimed would be temporary and was because of delayed testing of a batch of vaccines.

The company now expects to deliver 1.3m doses to the EU's 27 member states, plus Iceland and Norway, down from the 2.6m forecast for this week that it made in mid-March, according to documents seen by the Financial Times.

A batch won't have gone through QA before it was due to be shipped. While it's far from ideal & is another issue with their delivery schedule the batch should be released for the next delivery.

Good thing Ireland had already factored in a 60% cut in AZ supply from their forecasts

On the plus side looks like the couple of million doses from the Halix plant will be staying in the EU bar around 1.5 million for export.

Wolf359f · 10-04-2021 12:32AM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

We really need to be placing contingencies in place to just buy a lot more Pfizer and Moderna at this stage and forget AstraZeneca. It's clearly not able to produce a stable supply.

These announcements are becoming a running joke at this stage.

The initial government estimates for vaccine deliveries were conservative.
Then Denmark would announce they will offer a shot to everyone by X date.
Irish public get enraged.
Irish government re-do estimate using more optimistic estimate for vaccine deliveries and it looks good, public like it (of course the public say the HSE can't jab that fast)
AZ reduce deliveries, Government revise timetable, public react with anger at government.....

Can't ****ing win.

Glenbhoy · 10-04-2021 12:33AM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Is there any reason why the clots are more likely in younger people?

My understanding is that clots are not more likely in younger people, but that the risks of covid causing serious illness are so low that the risk reward of taking the vaccine for that cohort is substantially altered by the (very, very low) potential for these serious side effects. For older people the potential of serious illness from covid changes the calculation entirely.

Wolf359f · 10-04-2021 12:35AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

A batch won't have gone through QA before it was due to be shipped. While it's far from ideal & is another issue with their delivery schedule the batch should be released for the next delivery.

Good thing Ireland had already factored in a 60% cut in AZ supply from their forecasts

I'm starting to think 60% cut is a little to generous.
Even this big delivery promised by the end of March, wasn't really special.
It was literally the lowest weekly delivery and the highest weekly delivery added together in 1 week. It's far from a bumper delivery.
And a week later we're back to 10% delivered from the previous week.

Tyrone212 · 10-04-2021 12:37AM

Another potentially dangerous blood condition has been spotted in a handful of patients given the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, the EU's drug watchdog has announced

The European Medicines Authority (EMA) said five cases of capillary leak syndrome had been reported in vaccinated patients on the continent

It is another blow for the British-made jab, which has been restricted for certain age groups in various countries around the world, including under-30s in Britain, after reports of rare blood clots in the brain and abdomen.

Sadly from the DM. Don't read the comments if you value your braincells

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9454211/Fresh-blow-AstraZeneca-vaccine-linked-dangerous-blood-condition-Europe.html#article-9454211

Wolf359f · 10-04-2021 12:40AM

Glenbhoy wrote: »

My understanding is that clots are not more likely in younger people, but that the risks of covid causing serious illness are so low that the risk reward of taking the vaccine for that cohort is substantially altered by the (very, very low) potential for these serious side effects. For older people the potential of serious illness from covid changes the calculation entirely.

That seems to be the conscious among countries restricting AZ to certain age cohorts. With age being a major factor (excluding underlying conditions).
It is weird the UK have the lowest age restrictions (on restricted use or use an alternative under 30) compared to others in Europe, especially with one of the lowest incidence rates in Europe.

stephenjmcd · 10-04-2021 12:42AM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Another potentially dangerous blood condition has been spotted in a handful of patients given the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, the EU's drug watchdog has announced

The European Medicines Authority (EMA) said five cases of capillary leak syndrome had been reported in vaccinated patients on the continent

It is another blow for the British-made jab, which has been restricted for certain age groups in various countries around the world, including under-30s in Britain, after reports of rare blood clots in the brain and abdomen.

Sadly from the DM. Don't read the comments if you value your braincells

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9454211/Fresh-blow-AstraZeneca-vaccine-linked-dangerous-blood-condition-Europe.html#article-9454211

You warned about the comments and tbh I only clicked on it to see the comments(read the EMA statement earlier)....should have taken your warning seriously. Bloody hell

NeuralNetwork · 10-04-2021 12:43AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

The initial government estimates for vaccine deliveries were conservative.
Then Denmark would announce they will offer a shot to everyone by X date.
Irish public get enraged.
Irish government re-do estimate using more optimistic estimate for vaccine deliveries and it looks good, public like it (of course the public say the HSE can't jab that fast)
AZ reduce deliveries, Government revise timetable, public react with anger at government.....

Can't ****ing win.

I wasn't talking about the Government and didn't mention them. AstraZeneca are the ones making these constant announcements of underperformance. If other options are available, they should be used. They can't be relied upon by the looks of it.

They just keep over promising and under delivering, which is causing huge issues for public policy around vaccine rollout.

Whatever's going on with their ability to supply the UK and nobody else, at this stage I'm gone beyond caring. They just need to start putting whatever it takes into supporting the companies that can deliver.

I had some patience for their problems earlier on, but at this stage it's just a joke. They need to be realistic about what they can supply and stop over inflating their abilities. They're obviously out of their depth.

Wolf359f · 10-04-2021 12:49AM

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Another potentially dangerous blood condition has been spotted in a handful of patients given the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, the EU's drug watchdog has announced

The European Medicines Authority (EMA) said five cases of capillary leak syndrome had been reported in vaccinated patients on the continent

It is another blow for the British-made jab, which has been restricted for certain age groups in various countries around the world, including under-30s in Britain, after reports of rare blood clots in the brain and abdomen.

Sadly from the DM. Don't read the comments if you value your braincells

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9454211/Fresh-blow-AstraZeneca-vaccine-linked-dangerous-blood-condition-Europe.html#article-9454211

Jesus, I read the article.... it was factual and accurate and not spinning the narrative to the evil EU etc... and it's the Daily Mail.... wtf?

It's nice the see the British press acknowledge the rare blood clotting issues EU countries were worried about weeks ago and not spin it as just generic blood clotting that everyone can get etc....

Genuine concerns were raised by many countries, not just EU countries. British news response was seeing it as an attack on their British made vaccine, revenge for Brexit, jealousy for a slower rollout in the EU....
Amazing how that's totally changed now.

Wolf359f · 10-04-2021 12:57AM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I wasn't talking about the Government and didn't mention them. AstraZeneca are the ones making these constant announcements of underperformance. If other options are available, they should be used. They can't be relied upon by the looks of it.

They just keep over promising and under delivering, which is causing huge issues for public policy around vaccine rollout.

Whatever's going on with their ability to supply the UK and nobody else, at this stage I'm gone beyond caring. They just need to start putting whatever it takes into supporting the companies that can deliver.

I had some patience for their problems earlier on, but at this stage it's just a joke. They need to be realistic about what they can supply and stop over inflating their abilities. They're obviously out of their depth.

Sorry, just when i hear someone angry about vaccines, I immediately assume they blame the government.

I wouldn't consider AZ a lost cause, it's an effective vaccine (J&J may have a similar fate in the EU, clotting issues, reduced deliveries). But any resources by the EU cannot be going just to fix AZ problems. Germany and I think the EU (it may have been just Germany) have really invested and pumped money into Biontech and Pfizer to boost production and it's looking like they will be a leader in the vaccine rollout, surpassing the US in production.

stephenjmcd · 10-04-2021 01:02AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Sorry, just when i hear someone angry about vaccines, I immediately assume they blame the government.

I wouldn't consider AZ a lost cause, it's an effective vaccine (J&J may have a similar fate in the EU, clotting issues, reduced deliveries). But any resources by the EU cannot be going just to fix AZ problems. Germany and I think the EU (it may have been just Germany) have really invested and pumped money into Biontech and Pfizer to boost production and it's looking like they will be a leader in the vaccine rollout, surpassing the US in production.

Agree with this post 100%

It's far from a lost cause, its an effective vaccine that is / will have a massive impact on illness, death & transmission.

As for Pfizer-BioNTech I think and I'm open to correction here that both the EU and Germany separately pumped a large amount of money into BioNTech for everything from R&D, upgrade of production lines to creation of new factories and production lines.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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