Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

josip · 08-04-2021 04:29PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

You might be right and to be fair there is likely to be very low rates of disease in the UK by the time I'm looking to go over (you too most likely)

My only worry would be that we will probably need a negative PCR test 3 days pre-departure... What happens if it's a positive?

Eh, then you have Covid and shouldn't be leaving your house.
On a positive note, you'll qualify for an EU green cert thanks to your up and coming antibodies.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 08-04-2021 04:31PM

josip wrote: »

On a positive note, you'll qualify for an EU green cert thanks to your up and coming antibodies.

Which will allow you to get a haircut in October 2022.

josip · 08-04-2021 04:34PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Which will allow you to get a haircut in October 2022.

In Belfast.

dalyboy · 08-04-2021 04:36PM

josip wrote: »

In Belfast.

In light of the carnage in Belfast over the last week I’d rather get my haircut in Newry to be on the safe (or safer) side

fm · 08-04-2021 05:59PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Very good point. Italy went from complete carnage to green list last year in a similar timeline to where we are now. It'll take a lot of vaccination though as this current variants are much more transmittable.

Which brings us to the next problem. NPHET will still be chasing variants. I think that's the most stressful part of all this, not know what they'll invent next.

The 7 day average in a good few eu countries are already turning down so hopefully peaks have been reached in the last few days.

Wallander · 08-04-2021 06:01PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Did you read that article? The people you want to assist you recommend quarantine.

"Commission Vice President Maroš Šefčovič told the press conference.

He said EU countries should avoid “blanket travel bans” for citizens — such as the one currently enforced by Belgium — and said that countries should instead opt for targeted measures: “Mandatory quarantine is an effective tool to discourage touristic travel, if properly enforced.”

Add in that he also admits there's no set rule again border restrictions and that each country can restrict entry, I'm baffled how you think this will work

Also see in your original link the party that states individual cases must start in local courts and they don't fight them.

But hey, it's your time and in level 5, there's plenty of it.

The quarantine he was referring to was undoubtedly home quarantine, as no country in the EU had introduced hotel quarantine at this point (Ireland being the first). Local courts must be applied to only for compensation claims. I'm not seeking that, just for the European Commission to acknowledge the Irish government is acting illegally and notify them of this would be a good start.

The link again for anyone seeking to lodge a complaint: https://ec.europa.eu/assets/sg/report-a-breach/complaints_en/

naughtysmurf · 08-04-2021 06:05PM

Ireland number is 147.3 / 100,000, ECDC - Spains numbers aren’t dire at 174.34 /100,000, Portugal at 55.52 / 100,000 doing well, Germany worse at 272.53 /100,000, France is poor at 801.94 /100,000, Greece is 357.22 /100,000

With the possible exception of France who seemingly are a bit more vaccine adverse than the rest of us, I’d expect over the next 8 weeks those numbers will improve significantly, that brings us into June so will be interesting to see what happens as regards leisure travel to Spain, Portugal & Greece out of Ireland if our numbers are good from July onwards especially if the EU implements the green travel pass in June & will be interesting to see what our governments attitude to it is at that stage seeing as they supported it in the initial stage

Ray Donovan · 08-04-2021 06:10PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Ireland number is 147.3 / 100,000, ECDC - Spains numbers aren’t dire at 174.34 /100,000, Portugal at 55.52 / 100,000 doing well, Germany worse at 272.53 /100,000, France is poor at 801.94 /100,000, Greece is 357.22 /100,000

With the possible exception of France who seemingly are a bit more vaccine adverse than the rest of us, I’d expect over the next 8 weeks those numbers will improve significantly, that brings us into June so will be interesting to see what happens as regards leisure travel to Spain, Portugal & Greece out of Ireland if our numbers are good from July onwards especially if the EU implements the green travel pass in June & will be interesting to see what our governments attitude to it is at that stage seeing as they supported it in the initial stage

It won’t really matter what our government’s attitude towards it is.

You see there’s this group called NPHET.....

08-04-2021 06:23PM

Wallander wrote: »

The quarantine he was referring to was undoubtedly home quarantine, as no country in the EU had introduced hotel quarantine at this point (Ireland being the first). Local courts must be applied to only for compensation claims. I'm not seeking that, just for the European Commission to acknowledge the Irish government is acting illegally and notify them of this would be a good start.

He didnt say that did he? You have assumed now and you know what assume does. Your article also said and I quote once again as you have ignored it "Zacarias, whose country holds the rotating presidency of the Council of the EU, acknowledged the agreement against internal travel restrictions was not mandatory"

And no, local courts are not only for compensation, in order for a decision to be made, national courts must be first tried. Why do you think Ryanair lodged a complaint in the Irish courts and not just head straight to europe? I again quote from your own link "if solving your problem requires a national decision to be annulled, only national courts can do this." MHQ and travel restrictions are based in Irish law. Once again I point out that you are entirely allowed move to another country.

a_squirrelman · 08-04-2021 06:37PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

He didnt say that did he? You have presumed now and you know what presume does.

And no, local courts are not only for compensation, in order for a decision to be made, national courts must be first tried. Why do you think Ryanair lodged a complaint in the Irish courts and not just head straight to europe?

Again, you can make all the complaints you want but its just wasting 5 minutes of your time and the poor sod who has to answer them all

Well Šefčovic's own country doesn't have MHQ but quarantine in yer own gaff.

08-04-2021 06:38PM

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Well Šefčovic's own country doesn't have MHQ but quarantine in yer own gaff.

so what, now hes only speaking about his own country and not europe?

Mr. Karate · 08-04-2021 06:42PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

A fully vaccinated lady from Israel with negative PCR test who arrived in Dublin via Germany today to work whisked off to the Holiday Inn express to do her quarantine by the army, while others traveling on the same flight go about their business, you really couldn’t make this stuff up, great little country all the same, she was on Liveline

At some point we have to blame the airports and airlines for blindly going along with this. If they're coming from Countries that are not on the MHQ list or can prove they've been vaccinated this should not be happening.

They should not be forcibly taken away like this. What is this Nazi, Germany? Or the KGB at the Height of the Soviet Union? People travelling should not be make to feel or look like Criminals or Enemies of the State.

These Airports and airlines will want us to travel at some point. Why should we if we're made to feel like that can happen to us too if we return?

Wallander · 08-04-2021 06:43PM

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

so what, now hes only speaking about his own country and not europe?

I think it's a reasonable assumption he was talking about the only form of quarantine present in the EU at the time he spoke (home quarantine) but I feel we are splitting hairs now.

zebastein · 08-04-2021 06:44PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Ireland number is 147.3 / 100,000, ECDC - Spains numbers aren’t dire at 174.34 /100,000, Portugal at 55.52 / 100,000 doing well, Germany worse at 272.53 /100,000, France is poor at 801.94 /100,000, Greece is 357.22 /100,000

With the possible exception of France who seemingly are a bit more vaccine adverse than the rest of us, I’d expect over the next 8 weeks those numbers will improve significantly, that brings us into June so will be interesting to see what happens as regards leisure travel to Spain, Portugal & Greece out of Ireland if our numbers are good from July onwards especially if the EU implements the green travel pass in June & will be interesting to see what our governments attitude to it is at that stage seeing as they supported it in the initial stage

Incidence rate in France is around 400.
Part of population with a first jab is 15.3% against around 14% in Ireland.
The fact that people are adverse to vaccines in France may show up when they reach 50% vaccinated but for now all supply goes in the arms as in any other country.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 08-04-2021 06:53PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Ireland number is 147.3 / 100,000, ECDC - Spains numbers aren’t dire at 174.34 /100,000, Portugal at 55.52 / 100,000 doing well, Germany worse at 272.53 /100,000, France is poor at 801.94 /100,000, Greece is 357.22 /100,000

With the possible exception of France who seemingly are a bit more vaccine adverse than the rest of us, I’d expect over the next 8 weeks those numbers will improve significantly, that brings us into June so will be interesting to see what happens as regards leisure travel to Spain, Portugal & Greece out of Ireland if our numbers are good from July onwards especially if the EU implements the green travel pass in June & will be interesting to see what our governments attitude to it is at that stage seeing as they supported it in the initial stage

I was speaking to someone this evening that works in the medical dept of a university, has a lot of contacts, and I guess looks at the subject of travel in a less emotional way. Her gut feeling is that the authorities are in a panic right now trying to avoid another way, and literally trying to buy some time to get the vaccines out. They may even take the UK approach of focusing on giving as many people as possible one shot and doing the second later. The turning point in Europe should begin soon, as temperatures rise, people will be outdoors for more hours in the day and cases will drop. So there is hope there that everywhere in Europe will be low by Summer. By then, with most having received one shot, they'll allow travel to recommence, or face political meltdown.

naughtysmurf · 08-04-2021 07:03PM

zebastein wrote: »

Incidence rate in France is around 400.
Part of population with a first jab is 15.3% against around 14% in Ireland.
The fact that people are adverse to vaccines in France may show up when they reach 50% vaccinated but for now all supply goes in the arms as in any other country.

The current 14 day notification rate per 100,000 inhabitants provided by ECDC for France is 801.94 ?

caveat emptor · 08-04-2021 07:38PM

Home quarantine isn't a viable option as we don't have enough gardai to enforce. Other EU countries have far more police and paramilitary police forces to help with this.

Italy has twice as many police per capita as Ireland.

As we know by now if it's not enforceable it's not worth a sh!te.

Darwin · 08-04-2021 07:50PM

naughtysmurf wrote: »

The current 14 day notification rate per 100,000 inhabitants provided by ECDC for France is 801.94 ?

France reports rates over the previous 7 days, presumably this is the figure zebastein is referring to.

https://www.santepubliquefrance.fr/dossiers/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-chiffres-cles-et-evolution-de-la-covid-19-en-france-et-dans-le-monde

Red Silurian · 08-04-2021 08:01PM

Dr. Em wrote: »

You would have to stay home and self-isolate. Most airlines have waived change fees, but some of them dictate that the changes have to be made 2-3 days before flying. I don't know if they would charge a fee in that case.

But I wouldn't be at home, I'd be in england...

a_squirrelman · 08-04-2021 08:12PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Home quarantine isn't a viable option as we don't have enough gardai to enforce. Other EU countries have far more police and paramilitary police forces to help with this.

Italy has twice as many police per capita as Ireland.

As we know by now if it's not enforceable it's not worth a sh!te.

Does it have to be gardai? Other people can be given the job. Random house call, person wasn't home, you get fined.

wcooba · 08-04-2021 08:20PM

I don't think that argument that home quarantine cannot be properly enforced is the valid one. It's 21st century ffs - there is wide array of technologies which can solve that problem. MHQ is a lazy approach and should have no place in the modern society.
This is the interesting read: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11400293_Principles_for_the_Justification_of_Public_Health_Intervention

Donnelly's masterpiece (or in general overall handling of covid crisis here) fails 3 tests from that article:
- the principle of least restrictive measures
- minimisation of burden on individuals
- transparency

KanyeSouthEast · 08-04-2021 08:20PM

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Does it have to be gardai? Other people can be given the job. Random house call, person wasn't home, you get fined.

We could maybe reform the UDA or the B Specials or maybe see if the Black and Tans are up to anything. Other people ffs!

a_squirrelman · 08-04-2021 08:24PM

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

We could maybe reform the UDA or the B Specials or maybe see if the Black and Tans are up to anything. Other people ffs!

What? How is that worthy of a ffs from you? Where I am based the equivalent of the social welfare are doing the checks. If you aren't home then they report to the police and some fine comes your way.
They are the same crew who make sure you are really home when out on sick leave and not off on holiday.

BobbyBolivia · 08-04-2021 08:31PM

Looks like the USA is now being added.

We really are led by a pack of absolute clowns.

I'm sure Jacinta on Twitter will be delighted though.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40261655.html

bluelamp · 08-04-2021 08:38PM

Mr. Karate wrote: »

At some point we have to blame the airports and airlines for blindly going along with this. If they're coming from Countries that are not on the MHQ list or can prove they've been vaccinated this should not be happening.

They should not be forcibly taken away like this. What is this Nazi, Germany? Or the KGB at the Height of the Soviet Union? People travelling should not be make to feel or look like Criminals or Enemies of the State.

These Airports and airlines will want us to travel at some point. Why should we if we're made to feel like that can happen to us too if we return?

Ryanair & Aerlingus challenged it in the high court last year and lost.

They are not on the governments side on this. The Dublin airport authority is very vocal about it also on Twitter.

There's nothing they can do if the government makes it so unappealing to travel that nobody books.

I'm sure moving planes & staff to Belfast in Ryanairs case, and Manchester in Aerlingus case, wasn't their first choice.

Aerlingus have made over 500 staff in Ireland redundant so far.

josip · 08-04-2021 08:40PM

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Does it have to be gardai? Other people can be given the job. Random house call, person wasn't home, you get fined.

I have some neighbours who'd do it on a voluntary basis.

bluelamp · 08-04-2021 08:43PM

josip wrote: »

I have some neighbours who'd do it on a voluntary basis.

Plenty act like they are already doing it.

a_squirrelman · 08-04-2021 08:51PM

josip wrote: »

I have some neighbours who'd do it on a voluntary basis.

If it means I don't have to go to MHQ then so be it.

BobbyBolivia · 08-04-2021 08:51PM

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind now that the aviation sector in Ireland will be utterly destroyed for the forseeable future.

Cork airport has already lost Ryanair. Aer Lingus have taken on the Transatlantic slots at Manchester which spells disaster for Shannon. Those two airports alone provide hundreds of millions to the Irish economy directly and indirectly, the landscape for tourism outside of Dublin is incredibly bleak.

I just find it amazing that we are looking at the prospect of the EU rolling out a travel scheme, and the UK and US resuming travel while we are adding countries to a mandatory quarantine list.

Mandatory Quarantine without pursuing a Zero Covid strategy is just bizarre. It keeps 'variants of concern out' but nobody ever says which variant the issue is with - because our available vaccines work on all of them!

There is no justification for what gets added and what gets removed. See also: Isreal.

Travel, as utterly inconsequential as it is, has become this boogeyman due to the insane severity of our restrictions to date - the government started the ball rolling on public opinion on travel but now seem happy to go along with the mob - the baying mob have decided that all travel must be stopped now. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Reminds me when you would see all sorts (and Sinn Fein) demanding that we start spending Apple's tax money. Just absolute brainless, clueless nonsense and here is more of it.

josip · 08-04-2021 08:58PM

It was either deflect that travel is the cause of our Covid lockdowns or admit that the HSE is not fit for purpose.
And the HSE are the ones running the country at the moment, not the travel industry.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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