Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

paddyisreal wrote: »

where did i say fully vaccinated ? the uk and ireland figures apply to a vaccine administrated first or second dose . Anyway to apply the above then the uk only have 33 percent fully vaccinated at the moment then and are opening up with a plan. we will have the same percentage done in 6 weeks and we have no plan as per usual .

You suggested we’d have 69% of the population “done”. But we wouldn’t have them “done” because the aren’t all single dose vaccines.

“so on a back of a cigarrette box calculation we we will have 2.5 million done out of about 3.6 eligible recipiants ( 4.9 million population - 1.3 million under 18s) - about 69 percent by that date”

The only way we could 69% “done” with 2.5m doses is if we were giving a single dose to 2.5m people.

2.5/3.6 = 69%.

Could you explain your cigarette packet calculations? Maybe maths works differently on cigarette packets and to how it works on a calculator.

gozunda wrote: »

You do know that science is dynamic and relies on new research and investigation yes?

Like this...



https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6535/1206

Even the WHO rowed back on their earlier pronouncements about asymptomatic spread.

The Wuhan study has also been highlighted as being flawed with regard to those being categorised as asymptomatic in that study.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00059-4/fulltext

So no "NPHET and other health agencies in other countries -dont - just ignore these studies"

Rather they are following current guidence and doing what pretty much everywhere country has also done.

Not really true though is it? Ireland has had the longest and strictest lockdown in Europe and there’s still no end in sight.

Other countries examples of ‘severe restrictions’ have retail open, outdoor dining and you can travel anywhere you want within the country.

robindch wrote: »

Are you aware that you can pass on the disease to other people and that they can suffer longterm harm or death as a result?

My extended family has had five deaths in the last nine months - three directly, and two indirectly from covid. And of the people who recovered from the initial dose, a number are still suffering from serious and debilitating "long covid" symptoms.

So while I entirely sympathise with your upset at being asked to adhere to basic public health guidelines - I can assure you that we are all heartily sick and tired of them - I don't think it's too much to ask, given that you could pass on the disease to somebody else, and thereby risk giving them a life-changing illness or death.

Are you aware that prior to covid, we accepted that viruses of all kinds we part of life and didn’t spend all our time worrying about passing on the flu or chest infections to the elderly and vulnerable? Even though it could have caused deaths?
I have no issue adhering to basic public health guidelines, but colour me stunned that you would try to oversimplify this into being merely about social distancing and mask wearing.
I have no issue with any of that.
I agree that it isn’t a big ask to expect of people.

I do have an issue with having the economy shut for the best part of a year with over half a million people trying to survive on the meagre PUP payment.
I have an issue with cancer screenings and elective procedures being postponed and cancelled, which will arguably cause significantly more deaths down the line.

I have an issue with isolating people from their friends and family for a whole year, especially people who live alone who are desperately lonely. Especially people who suffer from mental health issues who rely on human contact to regulate themselves
I have an issue with curtailing our personal freedoms to a nonsensical 5k radius of our homes.
I have an issue with the fact that we are the only country on earth to close construction for the first quarter of the year, further worsening our already abysmal housing supply.
I have an issue with forcing women to go to sensitive maternity appointments alone, having to go through the majority of the labour and post natal aftermath alone without the support of their partner. Excluding fathers from such precious moments that they cannot get back.

I have an issue with the fact that so many of our elderly population have died alone without their loved ones after spending the last few months of their lives in isolation. That is desperately sad to me. That they have deteriorated before our eyes because of lack of access to their families.
I have an issue with the fact that pretty much everything that makes life worth living, seeing family and friends, celebrating milestones, socialising, sports, and hobbies and so much more have all been banned for the guts of a year. The joy has been sucked out of everything, and then some.
And you still say it isn’t a big ask to expect of people?

Can I just say, this is why the lockdown is losing support. Blasé attitudes like yours would make someone ask themselves why they’re even bothering, when you seem to have such casual regard for the suffering other people are going through for the benefit of others, and still seem to expect more.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone who genuinely cares about saving and protecting lives would still support these lockdowns so wholeheartedly.
Because a more balanced approach will save more lives in the long run than lockdowns will.

I’m sorry to hear about the death of your relatives, there have been deaths in my family too.
One from covid, he was a very elderly man who was already terminally ill with cancer. Our only regret is he spent the last few months of his life alone in a nursing home.
It still doesn’t change my mind that the current response is completely disproportionate, and that the very many are being sacrificed to save the few.
And it doesn’t change my mind that after a year of all of the above, those who met a few friends or family in the park during the nice weather over the weekend should feel responsible for ‘causing deaths’ and ‘killing others’.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You suggested we’d have 69% of the population “done”. But we wouldn’t have them “done” because the aren’t all single dose vaccines.



The only way we could 69% “done” with 2.5m doses is if we were giving a single dose to 2.5m people.

2.5/3.6 = 69%.

Could you explain your cigarette packet calculations? Maybe maths works differently on cigarette packets and to how it works on a calculator.

so you just clarified my maths are perfect
2.5/36 = 69%

thank you - cigarrette box works fine.

your problem resides with the word "done" -

in this instance the fact that a single dose instigates a strong immune response warrants the use of the word "done" as quiet appropiate.

The uk only have 5 million with both doses

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-03/covid-uk-records-lowest-number-daily-death-figure-since-september


hasnt stopped them opening up has it ?

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Absolutely

https://www.statista.com/statistics/710767/irish-population-by-age/

Population wise there is 3 million citizen's under 45.

We don’t need those vaccinated to open

We can open up and continue vaccinating

This thing is over, we just have to explain the data to NPHET, it seems they are still using March 2020 data

You sure about that?

But we certainly do - where those under 65 are deemed "at risk" and at "high risk" from infection.

Currently Group 4 are being been given their first dose of vaccine. This group includes all qualifying 16-69 year olds.

paddyisreal wrote: »

so you just clarified my maths are perfect
2.5/36 = 69%

thank you - cigarrette box works fine.

your problem resides with the word "done" -

in this instance the fact that a single dose instigates a strong immune response warrants the use of the word "done" as quiet appropiate.

The uk only have 5 million with both doses

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-03/covid-uk-records-lowest-number-daily-death-figure-since-september


hasnt stopped them opening up has it ?

So you think that once we have 2.5m vaccines administered, we’ll have given 2.5m people one shot each. Is that what’s going to happen, do you think? I’m not sure if you know this but people need two vaccines. So they’re not just giving everyone one shot. I don’t suppose this chance in your premises will have any impact on your conclusion.

The maths seems to be working fine, the assumptions you used are not sound.

timmyntc wrote: »

They say "it will be difficult"they dont say why its any more difficult or anything else, its a vague statement with no evidence to substantiate their claims -ergo its not worth the paper its printed on

Ah sure it is timmy. According to yourself. Dont worry about the linked supporting scientific papers in the article - where that has been taken and from where they explain the "why" I suppose. Like this one?

... This reliance on symptom-based testing, especially early in the pandemic, was also complicated by limited understanding of the full range of COVID-19 symptoms. The lack of surveillance testing makes analysis of secondary attack rates (the percentage of cases that result from one infected person within a defined group) for asymptomatic cases exceedingly difficult.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6535/1206

You don't agree with it so its "not worth the paper its printed on"

Yup that fits ...


:pac:

SusieBlue wrote: »

Are you aware that prior to covid, we accepted that viruses of all kinds we part of life and didn’t spend all our time worrying about passing on the flu or chest infections to the elderly and vulnerable? Even though it could have caused deaths?
I have no issue adhering to basic public health guidelines, but colour me stunned that you would try to oversimplify this into being merely about social distancing and mask wearing.
I have no issue with any of that.
I agree that it isn’t a big ask to expect of people.

I do have an issue with having the economy shut for the best part of a year with over half a million people trying to survive on the meagre PUP payment.
I have an issue with cancer screenings and elective procedures being postponed and cancelled, which will arguably cause significantly more deaths down the line.

I have an issue with isolating people from their friends and family for a whole year, especially people who live alone who are desperately lonely. Especially people who suffer from mental health issues who rely on human contact to regulate themselves
I have an issue with curtailing our personal freedoms to a nonsensical 5k radius of our homes.
I have an issue with the fact that we are the only country on earth to close construction for the first quarter of the year, further worsening our already abysmal housing supply.
I have an issue with forcing women to go to sensitive maternity appointments alone, having to go through the majority of the labour and post natal aftermath alone without the support of their partner. Excluding fathers from such precious moments that they cannot get back.

I have an issue with the fact that so many of our elderly population have died alone without their loved ones after spending the last few months of their lives in isolation. That is desperately sad to me. That they have deteriorated before our eyes because of lack of access to their families.
I have an issue with the fact that pretty much everything that makes life worth living, seeing family and friends, celebrating milestones, socialising, sports, and hobbies and so much more have all been banned for the guts of a year. The joy has been sucked out of everything, and then some.
And you still say it isn’t a big ask to expect of people?

Can I just say, this is why the lockdown is losing support. Blasé attitudes like yours would make someone ask themselves why they’re even bothering, when you seem to have such casual regard for the suffering other people are going through for the benefit of others, and still seem to expect more.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone who genuinely cares about saving and protecting lives would still support these lockdowns so wholeheartedly.
Because a more balanced approach will save more lives in the long run than lockdowns will.

I’m sorry to hear about the death of your relatives, there have been deaths in my family too.
One from covid, he was a very elderly man who was already terminally ill with cancer. Our only regret is he spent the last few months of his life alone in a nursing home.
It still doesn’t change my mind that the current response is completely disproportionate, and that the very many are being sacrificed to save the few.
And it doesn’t change my mind that after a year of all of the above, those who met a few friends or family in the park during the nice weather over the weekend should feel responsible for ‘causing deaths’ and ‘killing others’.

Good post and it sums up my feeling on the whole situation.

gozunda wrote: »

Ah sure it is Fintain. According to yourself. Dont worry about the linked supporting scientific papers - where that has been taken and from where they explain the "why" I suppose. Like this one?



https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6535/1206

You don't agree with it so its "not worth the paper its printed on"

Yup that fits ...


:pac:

We dont rely on symptom based testing - contact tracing is "contact" based testing. Which is exactly what you want to do to determine transmission.
Now I have said before that Irelands limited scope of contact tracing (up to -48hrs) has hindered our own approach - but it will still pick up quite a lot of asymptomatic cases & transmissions when there are any.

Boggles wrote: »

So you cant back up your claim?

We will leave it there so.

Domestic construction isn't shut, but anyway, even when large swatches of construction were actually shut in the Q2 of 2020 there was 3,290 completions.

But using those figures of 10k we were target of building 35,000 domestic dwellings in 2021? Really?


Just from last week, don't speak so soon old chap

timmyntc wrote: »

We dont rely on symptom based testing - contact tracing is "contact" based testing. Which is exactly what you want to do to determine transmission.
Now I have said before that Irelands limited scope of contact tracing (up to -48hrs) has hindered our own approach - but it will still pick up quite a lot of asymptomatic cases & transmissions when there are any.

What has any of that to do with the issues with asymptomatic cases and the now acknowledged risk of spread from such cases?

From the beginning of the Pandemic- people here were asked to get tested based on a set criteria of symptoms ie people who either were feeling unwell or had symptoms as being eligible for testing.

Those who were shown to have tested positive and had contacts or at least who chose to disclose their contacts then provided a second tier of potential cases to be tested.

However that contact system was suspended a number of times due to the system itself being overwhelmed with primary cases at certain points.

At present we have a number of hotspots where new case numbers are very high despite ongoing contract tracing.

In these areas- walk in testing centres catering for asymptomatic cases are being used to help identify and manage this rise.

ypres5 wrote: »

Domestic construction isn't shut, but anyway, even when large swatches of construction were actually shut in the Q2 of 2020 there was 3,290 completions.

But using those figures of 10k we were target of building 35,000 domestic dwellings in 2021? Really?


Just from last week, don't speak so soon old chap

That factual post in reply to another post does not back up your claim.

Put down the shovel and stop labeling people liars without foundation.

Now you are clearly on a wind up so please leave it there.

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”

― Abraham Lincoln

Oh Abraham, you were so wrong.....

paddyisreal wrote: »

answered that already and you chose to ignore it so end of conversation

So you genuine think that with 2.5m vaccines administered well have 69% of the adult population “done”?

Lol. You must think everyone of those 2.5m vaccines is going to a different person. How can someone hold a strong opinion when they’re this badly informed?

niallo27 wrote: »

How did they indirectly die from it if you mind me asking, how did so many people you know get it.

still only know of two people i know personally getting it ,and im in Dublin, the hotspot apparently