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Discussion on sexism

13567…14

Comments

  • #62
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »
    No interest in the thread in question but generally the mods are pretty fair when given the time to assess the situation. Tokyo listed comprehensive stats that the sexism was dealt with.

    Agreed.

    The issue is with the posters who dont see any sexism.


  • #63
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    anewme wrote: »
    Agreed.

    The issue is with the posters who dont see any sexism.

    Who 'doesn't see any sexism'? Again, you are suggesting things that aren't true. There is racism, sexism etc. on boards. However, it is a tiny tiny minority of what gets posted, and is usually quickly dealt with.

    As I have said already, it is a small band of posters who constantly complain on these threads that this sort of stuff is all over the place in After hours and CA. It isn't.


  • #64
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Who 'doesn't see any sexism'? Again, you are suggesting things that aren't true. There is racism, sexism etc. on boards. However, it is a tiny tiny minority of what gets posted, and is usually quickly dealt with.

    As I have said already, it is a small band of posters who constantly complain on these threads that this sort of stuff is all over the place in After hours and CA. It isn't.

    Do you think this post was sexist?

    Do you believe the Mods made the right decision to delete it and ban that poster?

    F***ing gravel donkeys need new faces and bodies never mind tits.the state of them.fannies like a punched lasagne prob


  • #65
    Deub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Deub


    anewme wrote: »
    Do you think this post was sexist?

    Do you believe the Mods made the right decision to delete it and ban that poster?

    F***ing gravel donkeys need new faces and bodies never mind tits.the state of them.fannies like a punched lasagne prob

    It is the 3rd time you post this post which was deleted. What is the point?


  • #66
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Deub wrote: »
    It is the 3rd time you post this post which was deleted. What is the point?

    Because, as I've stated previously, one or two potentially sexist, racist, xenophobic etc. Posts are taken and are ran with to give an impression that something is prevalent when it isn't. This is a case in point.


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  • #67
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Deub wrote: »
    It is the 3rd time you post this post which was deleted. What is the point?

    For the 4th time.

    The issue is about sexism on boards.

    The post referred to was deemed sexist and removed by mods. With the poster deleted.

    Yet, there are people her on this thread denying it was sexist. So that means these people are unable/unwilling to identify obvious sexism.

    That is very concerning and demonstrates there is a qualititative issue with the content.


  • #68
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Tokyo wrote: »
    No problem. it can be done here.

    With respect to an update on the actions to promote inclusivity - if you are asking if there is a mission statement that I can simply cut and paste from and say "this is what we're doing now" - there isn't.

    That being said, Boards should never be a place where people have free rein to torment others. We wish to foster an environment where everyone is welcome to engage, discuss, argue and share. It's obvious that we can - and should - do more. Conversations such as the one you describe in TLL do get carried across to the mods forum, and the admins forum. We (posters/mods/admin) may not get agree all of the time on every aspect of how the site is run, however the most important aspect of Boards is that we are a community. The conversations that take place on sexism, misogyny, racism, transphobia and so on may not result in an instant list of bulletpoint rules, but it does mean that we can no longer say we didn’t know how many of our community, directly or indirectly, have been affected by these issue. So the moderators decide to take a stricter line as to what is unacceptable.

    I have seen evidence to support this as of late, particularly in CA given the nature of the threads it attracts. We're nowhere near 'there' yet, and the conversation is an ongoing one, as it should be. That may not be the exact answer you came to this thread looking for, and I am happy to post on it further tomorrow (it's just gone 11pm here and I've spent the last few hours addressing this thread alone). I'm certainly open to further discussion though.

    Thanks for this, and I hope that because I post late at night it’s understood that it suits me to do so at that time, and certainly is not that I expect a response there and then or even anytime over a holiday weekend.

    I also appreciate the actions that were taken, a very good idea to remove that one entirely.

    I continue to note in this thread itself, there is a post stating something like “but the thread was about tits” , which again reinforces that some people think that any thread whatsoever that mentions women (in this case about women breaking the current quarantine law) means it’s a free for all on women’s bodies. The “boys club”, locker room mentality is unfortunately pervasive.

    Back when I modded (not here, this was back in the late 90’s in early bulletin boards) we found it useful to have guidelines on racism, sexism, lgbt bullying etc. Definitions on what each of these were, with real world examples. And the appropriate actions that should be taken. They were pretty basic. first instance of it on the thread was a mod note to stop. Second was a card or warning, and third was a lock on the thread for an hour. 61 reports on a thread is certainly a flag something is amiss.

    Ideally forums become self-moderating to some extent, once the user community is educated on what’s tolerated, and what is not. That education is generally done through the charters and the on-thread notes from mods. I asked the mod who was taking action at the time was there a guideline on misogyny or sexism, and the answer was no, it’s entirely at the mods discretion. This is an opportunity for improvement.


    We are a community and all of us on here, deserve to be written about with respect.

    So, as there is no mission statement, no guidance, can I ask is there there intention to create this? Is it just not here YET, but it’s in the works, or is the intention to leave things as they are indefinitely?


  • #69
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,769 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    anewme wrote: »
    Do you think this post was sexist?

    Do you believe the Mods made the right decision to delete it and ban that poster?

    F***ing gravel donkeys need new faces and bodies never mind tits.the state of them.fannies like a punched lasagne prob

    I honestly don't know what you are trying to achieve. The post was deleted in a rather timely manner.

    It's a rotten post but you keep giving it attention , the same with the pig with lipstick comment.

    These posters absolutely feed on attention and you are definitely providing it.

    Report the post, don't engage with the poster and move on.

    I don't know what you expect from voluntary moderators, they can't pre-approve every single post.

    The posts that fall below standards are deleted it may not be immediate but they are deleted. Continually bringing them back up kinda defeats the purpose of them getting deleted.


  • #70
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    anewme wrote: »
    For the 4th time.

    The issue is about sexism on boards.

    The post referred to was deemed sexist and removed by mods. With the poster deleted.

    Yet, there are people her on this thread denying it was sexist. So that means these people are unable/unwilling to identify obvious sexism.

    That is very concerning and demonstrates there is a qualititative issue with the content.

    Part in bold is what should ultimately matter. You can police content, you can't police people's thoughts.


  • #71
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Part in bold is what should ultimately matter. You can police content, you can't police people's thoughts.

    We can improve community standards. Then it does not get posted in the first place. Lower admin, win win.


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  • #72
    Deub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Deub


    anewme wrote: »
    For the 4th time.

    The issue is about sexism on boards.

    The post referred to was deemed sexist and removed by mods. With the poster deleted.

    Yet, there are people her on this thread denying it was sexist. So that means these people are unable/unwilling to identify obvious sexism.

    That is very concerning and demonstrates there is a qualititative issue with the content.

    Are you saying that some mods don’t see/identify these posts not respecting the charter?


  • #73
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    anewme wrote: »
    Do you think this post was sexist?

    Do you believe the Mods made the right decision to delete it and ban that poster?

    F***ing gravel donkeys need new faces and bodies never mind tits.the state of them.fannies like a punched lasagne prob

    Not really no. Sexism to me is discrimination or being prejudiced against a person solely due to their sex. I don't see that in that comment. It's no more sexist than all the stuff that is said about Boris J's appearence or another who I'd rather not name, or any other skanger for that matter. It's nasty, not sexist. There have been cases before on fb were police will release heads shots of male criminals or wanted men that are on the run and their appearance will get slated in the comments section. It is not a gender thing.

    Do I think it should be deleted? No. Should it be carded? Yes. Poster banned? Maybe.

    Maybe you tell me why it is sexist in your opinion and we'll compare notes so to speak.


  • #74
    Curse These Metal Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    pwurple wrote: »
    We can improve community standards. Then it does not get posted in the first place. Lower admin, win win.

    It's impossible to preemptively stop someone posting something horrible. The only thing that is realistic, and matters, is the post being dealt with after the fact.


  • #75
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Princess Calla wrote: »
    I honestly don't know what you are trying to achieve. The post was deleted in a rather timely manner.

    It's a rotten post but you keep giving it attention , the same with the pig with lipstick comment.

    These posters absolutely feed on attention and you are definitely providing it.

    Report the post, don't engage with the poster and move on.

    I don't know what you expect from voluntary moderators, they can't pre-approve every single post.

    The posts that fall below standards are deleted it may not be immediate but they are deleted. Continually bringing them back up kinda defeats the purpose of them getting deleted.

    No, it does the opposite. It highlights there is an issue with sexism together with a lack if acknowledgement.

    Why do you think people here are saying the post was not sexist ?

    A number of posters here did not believe it to be so. Is that ignorance or deliberate?

    If posters cannot see obvious sexist posts, that indicates there is a wider issue. This post and the pig posts demonstrate the very worst of boards.

    Yet there are defenders.

    How should they be educated?


  • #76
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    pwurple wrote: »
    I


    We are a community and all of us on here, deserve to be written about with respect.

    Did someone write about you disrespectfully?


  • #77
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    pwurple wrote: »
    We can improve community standards. Then it does not get posted in the first place. Lower admin, win win.

    So basically have a forum with people who only post what you approve of?


  • #78
    99nsr125
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    anewme wrote: »
    Should not be used against anyone.

    What happens if it's true ?

    Anyway I was refuting that it was a sexist comment directed at women specifically which it isn't.


  • #79
    99nsr125
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    Princess Calla wrote: »
    I was called a weirdo and my actions were compared to a rapist in another thread. That was a personal attack on me .

    I didn't report the posts (they have been deleted though) and it didn't silence me....I'm not super self confident by any stretch but if you feel strongly on a topic you need to stand firm, when you're causing someone to try to win a point by name calling you know your hitting a nerve or they've a vested interest in the topic.

    So I don't buy in to the "too afraid" to post lark either. If you have an opinion you feel strongly about fight it out* but be prepared for someone to feel equally strongly against you. I'm not saying they are right by any stretch but a challenge on anything will result in a kick back and an anonymous forum gives a platform to people to express views they may not be bold enough to say in company.

    Like everything there will be good and bad.

    *Though if you find certain posts offensive I do think ignore and report is the best strategy.


    Very good post, thank you


  • #80
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Did someone write about you disrespectfully?

    Yes, the usual personal insults came out.

    For those asking for reference material on sexist language, here is one on sexist slurs.
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-019-01095-z

    Gravel donkey, all the comments about porn being their income stream, being pissed on in Dubai for payment etc would pretty clearly fall into that.

    “These terms include those insulting someone’s appearance (e.g., “ugly”), intellect (e.g., “stupid”), sexual experience (e.g., “promiscuous”), mental stability (e.g., “crazy”), and age (“old”). Messages enforcing beauty norms tend to be particularly negative. In sum, hostile, sexist tweets are strategic in nature. They aim to promote traditional, cultural beliefs about femininity, such as beauty ideals, and they shame victims by accusing them of falling short of these standards.”


  • #81
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Part in bold is what should ultimately matter. You can police content, you can't police people's thoughts.

    Agreed in relation to that thread.

    But given the wider discussion about sexism being tolerated in general and the number of posters excusing it does indicate a tolerance to it, together with a reluctance and push back against calling it out.


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  • #82
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    anewme wrote: »
    No, it does the opposite. It highlights there is an issue with sexism together with a lack if acknowledgement.

    Why do you think people here are saying the post was not sexist ?

    Maybe because it wasn't.
    anewme wrote: »
    A number of posters here did not believe it to be so. Is that ignorance or deliberate?

    If posters cannot see obvious sexist posts, that indicates there is a wider issue. This post and the pig posts demonstrate the very worst of boards.

    Yet there are defenders.

    How should they be educated?

    'how should they be made to agree with me?'


  • #83
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    anewme wrote: »
    No, it does the opposite. It highlights there is an issue with sexism together with a lack if acknowledgement.

    Why do you think people here are saying the post was not sexist ?

    A number of posters here did not believe it to be so. Is that ignorance or deliberate?

    If posters cannot see obvious sexist posts, that indicates there is a wider issue. This post and the pig posts demonstrate the very worst of boards.

    Yet there are defenders.

    How should they be educated?

    They cannot be educated. People have different opinions. It's not up to anyone on a message board to educate anyone on a board.

    The comments are reported and the mods have dealt with it.

    Unless you ban men from the internet there are going to be sexist comments.


  • #84
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,734 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    Look, that post was a disgusting post.

    I’d be more inclined to think it was from a user looking to get his (or her) kicks from winding people up.

    I’ve been on message boards for a good long time now, the guts of 20 years and I’ve seen people like this.

    Hell, on one site this place was ridiculed and posters there routinely plotted and planned wind ups on posters here.

    I’m sure there are people cross posting on here and Reddit where the same thing is happening. And the person who posted the lasagne post is chortling away at the reaction.

    Best reaction to someone like that is report, ignore, post your own thoughts. Don’t give them the time of day. And don’t quite those post 4 times after it’s been deleted and they’ve been sanctioned.


  • #85
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    99nsr125 wrote: »
    What happens if it's true ?

    Anyway I was refuting that it was a sexist comment directed at women specifically which it isn't.

    How could this possibly be true?

    You are proving my point here about condoning hate.

    F***ing gravel donkeys need new faces and bodies never mind tits.the state of them.fannies like a punched lasagne prob


  • #86
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    pwurple wrote: »
    We can improve community standards. Then it does not get posted in the first place. Lower admin, win win.

    Mods/admins are entrusted with policing standards. Things you disagree with will be posted from time to time. That's the nature of a discussion forum. If things posted are upsetting to you, bigoted, discriminatory there's ways and means to deal with;

    a) You can call them out on thread and challenge them.
    b) You can report the post using the tool in place.
    c) You can use the ignore function.


  • #87
    Curse These Metal Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    pwurple wrote: »
    Yes, the usual personal insults came out.

    For those asking for reference material on sexist language, here is one on sexist slurs.
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-019-01095-z

    Gravel donkey, all the comments about porn being their income stream, being pissed on in Dubai for payment etc would pretty clearly fall into that.

    “These terms include those insulting someone’s appearance (e.g., “ugly”), intellect (e.g., “stupid”), sexual experience (e.g., “promiscuous”), mental stability (e.g., “crazy”), and age (“old”). Messages enforcing beauty norms tend to be particularly negative. In sum, hostile, sexist tweets are strategic in nature. They aim to promote traditional, cultural beliefs about femininity, such as beauty ideals, and they shame victims by accusing them of falling short of these standards.”

    Agree with most but don't see how calling someone stupid is sexist. Especially in the context of the thread in the OP.


  • #88
    Deub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Deub


    anewme wrote: »
    How could this possibly be true?

    You are proving my point here about condoning hate.

    F***ing gravel donkeys need new faces and bodies never mind tits.the state of them.fannies like a punched lasagne prob

    What is your solution?


  • #89
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,853 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    knucklehead6 wrote: »
    Look, that post was a disgusting post.

    I’d be more inclined to think it was from a user looking to get his (or her) kicks from winding people up.

    I’ve been on message boards for a good long time now, the guts of 20 years and I’ve seen people like this.

    Hell, on one site this place was ridiculed and posters there routinely plotted and planned wind ups on posters here.

    I’m sure there are people cross posting on here and Reddit where the same thing is happening. And the person who posted the lasagne post is chortling away at the reaction.

    Best reaction to someone like that is report, ignore, post your own thoughts. Don’t give them the time of day. And don’t quite those post 4 times after it’s been deleted and they’ve been sanctioned.

    I'm posting with regard to the bigger picture though and in the interest of feedback to improve.

    Why do you think posters here in this thread are denying it was sexist?

    Poster above asks what if it's true for example.

    Its not the lasagne person thats the real issue here.

    It's the people who believe lasagne persons post was not sexist.

    They are not chortling away.

    They are deadly serious.

    That's the core issue.

    Personally , I believe highlighting this plus the fat pig type comments clearly demonstrate there is a tolerance towards sexism here., not from Mods, but a small cohort of posters.


  • #90
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Mods/admins are entrusted with policing standards. Things you disagree with will be posted from time to time. That's the nature of a discussion forum. If things posted are upsetting to you, bigoted, discriminatory there's ways and means to deal with;

    a) You can call them out on thread and challenge them.
    b) You can report the post using the tool in place.
    c) You can use the ignore function.

    I appreciate your contribution, but as you can see from my registration date I am fairly well aware of the options available, being pretty long in the tooth an’ all.

    This is a feedback thread, I am requesting continued improvement in this aspect of moderation.


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  • #91
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    pwurple wrote: »
    Yes, the usual personal insults came out.

    For those asking for reference material on sexist language, here is one on sexist slurs.
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11199-019-01095-z

    Gravel donkey, all the comments about porn being their income stream, being pissed on in Dubai for payment etc would pretty clearly fall into that.

    “These terms include those insulting someone’s appearance (e.g., “ugly”), intellect (e.g., “stupid”), sexual experience (e.g., “promiscuous”), mental stability (e.g., “crazy”), and age (“old”). Messages enforcing beauty norms tend to be particularly negative. In sum, hostile, sexist tweets are strategic in nature. They aim to promote traditional, cultural beliefs about femininity, such as beauty ideals, and they shame victims by accusing them of falling short of these standards.”

    Are you honestly linking to an article published in a journal that takes a 'feminist perspective' and expecting me or indeed anyone to take it seriously?

    Secondly, slagging someones intellect is not in and itself sexist (unless it's suggested that person is less intelligent solely because of their sex), slagging someones appearance is again not in and itself sexist, nor there sexual experiences (though slut I'd accept is a sexist term as refers mainly to women in a derogatory sense).

    If I was you, I'd lay off the academic feminism as it's poisonous rubbish.


This discussion has been closed.
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