Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings

MOH · 01-04-2021 12:45PM

Boggles wrote: »

He didn't say that though did he?

Hospitisations, ICU numbers are similar enough now to when he made that assertion.

Limit is being lifted because there is no remaining justification for it, IMO.

Back to the cherry picking again, and you're not even very good at that.

This isn't very hard to follow TBF. Hospitalisations and ICU numbers are irrelevant, there you go again. Your opinion on whether the 5k limit is justified or why it's being lifted is irrelevant (as is mine).

No, he didn't say that verbatim. He said there was research showing that a 5k limit forced people in urban areas into more crowded situations. Which, you see, is a bad thing full stop. Regardless of the situation in hospitals.

Again, I'm not the one making that claim. He did. There's probably a non-zero chance that it was just political posturing trying to undermine Varadkar while government negotiations were in progress.

But then either we've spent 5 months under a 5k lockdown imposed by a man who has seen research showing it's actually potentially harmful to those in urban areas; or the country is currently being run by a man who has deliberately lied about the effectiveness of covid restrictions for his own political gain.

I think I actually find the first option less disturbing.

This isn't very hard follow TBF, the 5km exercise limit was the main bug on here for the past month. It's now going and of course people are now finding other things to whinge about.

Not sure what you've been reading for the past month but there's been a lot more than just the 5k. Of course you probably cherry pick which posts you read too. I should feel honoured.

gozunda · 01-04-2021 12:46PM

ypres5 wrote: »

Just wondering could you break down that 50% of under 65s by age group please? It's your go to argument but you never go into more detail about it for some reason

Why does that figure not suit? Its simply detailed because its relevant

Interesting that you've ignored that I've provided plenty of detail on that figure. The breakdown by age is easily available online for anyone who cares to look .

And I'm know I've already replied to comments regarding age breakdown of the under 65s. But hey whatever.

These are just a sample of data for "Hospitalised cases by age group" which I've already linked to. Help yourself.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/1722f-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-sunday-3-january/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/48e25-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-saturday-12-december/#hospital-statistics

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b3fd5-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-12-october/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e3180-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-13-july/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/ecbc11-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-sunday-12-a/

But sure nothing like kicking sand eh?

timmyntc · 01-04-2021 12:47PM

Boggles wrote: »

I missed this, which controversy?

If only someone invented a search function.

Keyzer · 01-04-2021 12:51PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s not really a great response TBH

Deaths are used as a justification to restrict movement and hinder certain freedoms for a year now.

Although it turns out Covid isn’t even the leading cause of death in any country, severe restrictions or not.

So surely if preventing deaths is a reason to suspend democracy for 54 weeks in Ireland, shouldn’t we make laws to prevent as many deaths as possible?

What about road related deaths then? Alcohol related deaths? Obesity related deaths?

We'll just ban everything will we?

Ridiculous...

Pdoghue · 01-04-2021 12:53PM

Pussyhands wrote: »

You gotta say there's some absolute geniuses running things. Open up community testing centres 3 months into level 5 when cases have dropped massively.

Did they not think it would have been a better idea to do it last November when things were opened up???

Also shout out to George Lee, again last night going on about "data models" and "mathematicians from all over the country, in all the universities". The way he talks you'd think they are trying to diffuse a bomb.

George Lee last night on the 9 o'clock news was breathlessly fear-mongering about the modelling showing there would be x amount of positive cases by September based on the modelling advice, the implication being that it was a terrible prospect. But not once did he mention the vaccine rollout, the effect of the vaccine in reducing serious illness and hospitalisations, and the presenter Sharon just sat there nodding at him - it didn't seem to occur to her to ask those questions.

Boggles · 01-04-2021 12:56PM

MOH wrote: »

Back to the cherry picking again, and you're not even very good at that.

This isn't very hard to follow TBF. Hospitalisations and ICU numbers are irrelevant, there you go again. Your opinion on whether the 5k limit is justified or why it's being lifted is irrelevant (as is mine).

No, he didn't say that verbatim. He said there was research showing that a 5k limit forced people in urban areas into more crowded situations. Which, you see, is a bad thing full stop. Regardless of the situation in hospitals.

Again, I'm not the one making that claim. He did. There's probably a non-zero chance that it was just political posturing trying to undermine Varadkar while government negotiations were in progress.

But then either we've spent 5 months under a 5k lockdown imposed by a man who has seen research showing it's actually potentially harmful to those in urban areas; or the country is currently being run by a man who has deliberately lied about the effectiveness of covid restrictions for his own political gain.

I think I actually find the first option less disturbing.

Not sure what you've been reading for the past month but there's been a lot more than just the 5k. Of course you probably cherry pick which posts you read too. I should feel honoured.

You are way over thinking it.

The current "advice" is to stay home, unless for exercise or essential purposes. It's a pretty simple set of instructions.

It is a tactic among-st other measures that have worked at least 3 times now in this actual country.

Now if you have information that it spreads the virus more, than by all means tap it out.

Hanging onto to some vagueness that MM said in opposition last May is not really going to advance the debate is it?

MOH · 01-04-2021 12:57PM

gozunda wrote: »

Interesting that you've ignored that I've provided plenty of detail on that figure. The breakdown by age is easily available online for anyone who cares to look

These are just a sample of data for "Hospitalised cases by age group" which I've already linked to. Help yourself.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/1722f-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-sunday-3-january/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/48e25-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-saturday-12-december/#hospital-statistics

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b3fd5-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-12-october/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e3180-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-13-july/

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/ecbc11-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-sunday-12-a/

But sure nothing like kicking sand eh?

Are there any breakdowns showing how many of those had Covid before they arrived in hospital?

Boggles · 01-04-2021 12:58PM

timmyntc wrote: »

If only someone invented a search function.

I did search, it yielded nothing.

The word "controversy" is malleable.

FintanMcluskey · 01-04-2021 01:03PM

Keyzer wrote: »

What about road related deaths then? Alcohol related deaths? Obesity related deaths?

We'll just ban everything will we?

Ridiculous...

Well we have banned a significant amount of freedom and future economic prospects for everyone to protect a very vulnerable minority.

I think your trying to use logic while inadvertently supporting the argument you are trying to refute

We should ban those things if it saves lives because that’s the logic we have used since March 2020, complete risk aversion.

Ridiculous almost

Pussyhands · 01-04-2021 01:12PM

They still treat the virus like the one they thought it might be last March, where stats made it look like it had a 25% needing hospital care and 10% death rate.

Then we discovered the virus was far more prevalent than thought and far more people had it with no effects.

01-04-2021 01:12PM

gozunda wrote: »

Nothing igored my friend. Simply replied to the comment. Sorry that does not suit.

Lol though you bizarrely claiming a comment based on actual data is "word vomit" when your reply is little more than what could be described as yet another load of verbose scutter is quite funny

But what you're trying to now claim is that people can just make up ****e, add some made up 'facts' and that then justifies those talking manure?

One thing in all that at least in some deep recess you're acknowledging that having successfully got the rate of infection down - that restrictions are working.

Good. We're making some progress at least.

I don't have the time or patience to sit on here all day debating with You and Boggles, I'll leave you to it.

I'm glad that even on this forum containing only a small subset of people, your opinions are overwhelmingly discounted by people and that's positive to see.

I never disagreed with the need for lockdowns or restrictions in the past and I'm not advocating a full reopening yet, I'm just looking at the situation through a holistic lens rather than solely focusing on one facet of the country.

Personally, I'm leaving the country as soon as possible because I wont remain here to pick up the pieces when the Government have finished destroying our economy. It's just sad to see them flush the economy down the toilet 'just to be safe to be safe'. It's like bringing an umbrella out with you every day in the Sahara because it might rain some day.

Keyzer · 01-04-2021 01:21PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Well we have banned a significant amount of freedom and future economic prospects for everyone to protect a very vulnerable minority.

Temporarily restricted is not the same as banned. That vulnerable minority are the older generation and those with underlying medical conditions. Shouldn't we protect the most vulnerable in our society? Or should we just leave them to die? Sure they'll die anyway won't they so no great loss, right?

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I think your trying to use logic while inadvertently supporting the argument you are trying to refute

Nope - I'm highlighting the ridiculousness of previous posters comments on smoking and somehow linking this to the restrictions that have been imposed due to the covid pandemic.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We should ban those things if it saves lives because that’s the logic we have used since March 2020, complete risk aversion. Ridiculous almost

I agree, the complete risk aversion approach is ridiculous. For me, it makes no sense to me why certain things have not been opened up in a controlled manner (click & collect, non-essential retail etc.).

growleaves · 01-04-2021 01:28PM

Boggles wrote: »

The word "controversy" is malleable.

Yes it can be transformed into the anagram "corny voters".

Boggles · 01-04-2021 01:28PM

11521323 wrote: »

I don't have the time or patience to sit on here all day debating with You and Boggles, I'll leave you to it.

I didn't ask you for a "debate" TBF.

You decided to label a post that was exclusively facts as a fabrication.

I merely asked you to point out the falsehoods.

MOH · 01-04-2021 01:33PM

Boggles wrote: »

You are way over thinking it.

The current "advice" is to stay home, unless for exercise or essential purposes. It's a pretty simple set of instructions.

It is a tactic among-st other measures that have worked at least 3 times now in this actual country.

Now if you have information that it spreads the virus more, than by all means tap it out.

Hanging onto to some vagueness that MM said in opposition last May is not really going to advance the debate is it?

I think I see what's going on here, so I'm glad I can finally clear it up. I am not the Taoiseach. You obviously think I am, since it's the only logical explanation for why you keep attributing his statements to me. I don't have any information on whether a 5k restriction spreads the virus more. I don't even know if such information exists. I only know that he (again, he, Micheal Martin, the current Taoiseach - not me, random boards poster) claimed almost a year ago that such is the case.

There wasn't any vagueness about it, it seems to be a fairly clear direct quote.
And I'm fairly sure nothing's going to advance any debate with you since you seem to be hellbent on having a completely different one. I am somewhat relieved though that at least you've returned to this actual country, as opposed to other actual countries, and possibly some imaginary countries?

But the post to which you responded, starting this whole back and forth which must be as tiresome for everyone else as it is for me, wasn't debating the efficacy of lockdown-related restrictions.
Lockdowns which the WHO has stated should be used as a last resort and as you point out have been used three times already in this country.

Lockdowns which the chair of the NPHET Coronavirus Expert Advisory Group said last July should hopefully not be needed on a nationwide basis in future because we now had the necessary infrastructure in place to be able to quickly identify clusters and trace and isolate close contacts.
Which has been recommended since day one by the WHO as a key means of controlling the spread, but which we've never been in a position to do since our chief epidemiological expert claims that tracing back more than two days is "academic". For a virus which typically takes 4-5 days to show symptoms.

You're the one with a bee in your bonnet about the 5k rule.
The debate you're responding to is regarding the utter failure of the government and health authorities to implement actual proactive, recommended, measures to help curb the virus, and instead leave the entire burden of combatting it on the general public with reactive lockdowns, while trying to cover themselves with a series of contradictions, misrepresentations, and lies.

But sure tell me again that the 5k rule is going so everything is rosy :rolleyes:

Boggles · 01-04-2021 01:42PM

MOH wrote: »

I think I see what's going on here, so I'm glad I can finally clear it up. I am not the Taoiseach. You obviously think I am, since it's the only logical explanation for why you keep attributing his statements to me. I don't have any information on whether a 5k restriction spreads the virus more. I don't even know if such information exists. I only know that he (again, he, Micheal Martin, the current Taoiseach - not me, random boards poster) claimed almost a year ago that such is the case.

There wasn't any vagueness about it, it seems to be a fairly clear direct quote.
And I'm fairly sure nothing's going to advance any debate with you since you seem to be hellbent on having a completely different one. I am somewhat relieved though that at least you've returned to this actual country, as opposed to other actual countries, and possibly some imaginary countries?

But the post to which you responded, starting this whole back and forth which must be as tiresome for everyone else as it is for me, wasn't debating the efficacy of lockdown-related restrictions.
Lockdowns which the WHO has stated should be used as a last resort and as you point out have been used three times already in this country.

Lockdowns which the chair of the NPHET Coronavirus Expert Advisory Group said last July should hopefully not be needed on a nationwide basis in future because we now had the necessary infrastructure in place to be able to quickly identify clusters and trace and isolate close contacts.
Which has been recommended since day one by the WHO as a key means of controlling the spread, but which we've never been in a position to do since our chief epidemiological expert claims that tracing back more than two days is "academic". For a virus which typically takes 4-5 days to show symptoms.

You're the one with a bee in your bonnet about the 5k rule.
The debate you're responding to is regarding the utter failure of the government and health authorities to implement actual proactive, recommended, measures to help curb the virus, and instead leave the entire burden of combatting it on the general public with reactive lockdowns, while trying to cover themselves with a series of contradictions, misrepresentations, and lies.

But sure tell me again that the 5k rule is going so everything is rosy :rolleyes:

Did MM claim the 5km limit spreads the virus more?

normanoffside · 01-04-2021 01:46PM

Pdoghue wrote: »

George Lee last night on the 9 o'clock news was breathlessly fear-mongering about the modelling showing there would be x amount of positive cases by September based on the modelling advice, the implication being that it was a terrible prospect. But not once did he mention the vaccine rollout, the effect of the vaccine in reducing serious illness and hospitalisations, and the presenter Sharon just sat there nodding at him - it didn't seem to occur to her to ask those questions.

For those that didn't see it, it's comical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzCB-DA8wd0

Silentcorner · 01-04-2021 01:54PM

normanoffside wrote: »

For those that didn't see it, it's comical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzCB-DA8wd0

Jesus Christ.....

How more transmissable is this disease?

We can all remember the numbers from last year, he is predicting what was it 400,000 cases in the coming months...

There must be people starting to feel a little silly going along with this nonsense...it's not science or data that is driving this it is mathematicians....honestly you couldn't make this up!!!

eggy81 · 01-04-2021 01:56PM

normanoffside wrote: »

For those that didn't see it, it's comical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzCB-DA8wd0

Jesus Christ. That is comical. It’s like senior infants religion class

FintanMcluskey · 01-04-2021 01:56PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Jesus Christ.....

How more transmissable is this disease?

It’s very concerning, particularly the South African variant

So much so the South Africans didn’t actually shut the pubs

RobitTV · 01-04-2021 01:56PM

George Lee - "They've got mathematicians from so many universities"

Jesus he is never ending.

SnuggyBear · 01-04-2021 01:57PM

Soneone needs to have a word with George Lee

Ashbourne hoop · 01-04-2021 02:00PM

RobitTV wrote: »

This is for the next time the Gardai blab on about following the guidelines over Easter...

Irish Examiner: Eight gardaí have hair cut at Pearse Street Garda Station

Up to eight members of An Garda Síochána had their hair cut by a colleague last week in a Dublin station in a breach of Covid-19 guidelines.

Although personal service outlets such as barbers and hairdressers have been closed since December 31, it is believed one officer, “who may have been a barber previously” cut the hair of his colleagues at Pearse Street station.

Irish Examiner

Ridiculous non story.

normanoffside · 01-04-2021 02:00PM

RobitTV wrote: »

George Lee - "They've got mathematicians from so many universities"

Jesus he is never ending.

He actually sounds like Trump:

We've got the best Mathematicians from all the best Universities.
So many Mathematicians, so many Universities.

_Kaiser_ · 01-04-2021 02:02PM

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Soneone needs to have a word with George Lee

That would be when Lee quit FG/politics because he thought he knew more about economics and got into a huff because they wouldn't listen to him.

I would give the same amount of credibility to his views on "science" TBH.

_Kaiser_ · 01-04-2021 02:03PM

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Ridiculous non story.

Nope, you even quoted the reason yourself...

in a breach of Covid-19 guidelines.

We're "all in this together" are we not?

Pussyhands · 01-04-2021 02:03PM

RobitTV wrote: »

George Lee - "They've got mathematicians from so many universities"

Jesus he is never ending.

Lee wants us to think all the finest nerds in the country are in a bunker somewhere running these highly complex models run on supercomputers predicting the future, like the lad from James Bond!

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Boggles · 01-04-2021 02:04PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s very concerning, particularly the South African variant

So much so the South Africans didn’t actually shut the pubs

Maybe one of the reasons we now have a South African variant, what do you think Fintan?

TonyMaloney · 01-04-2021 02:04PM

Yiz make it hard for a person to ignore George Lee.

Without you lot banging on about him endlessly he wouldn't feature in my life.

Ashbourne hoop · 01-04-2021 02:05PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Nope, you even quoted the reason yourself...

We're "all in this together" are we not?

Guy with a razor gives his colleagues a 4 all over. Stop the presess....

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X Read OP For Mod Warnings