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Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

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    #32
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    kildare lad wrote: »
    Thanks, I'd say there's a lot of political pressure to give him a stiff sentence . If he got a sentence of about 20 years it might cool all the hot heads. I think with covid and restrictions , the last thing politicians and cops in America want , is more rioting and death along with 2 billion worth of damage like they caused last year

    its a sad day when somebody has to receive a harsher sentence just to stop riots and destruction, but sure thats America now.


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    #33
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    wicklowstevo wrote: »
    America is a toilet

    if he is convicted regardless of the scentence blm will riot
    if he gets off blm will riot
    if its a mistrial blm will riot
    if its shown that he was going to die any way blm will riot
    if he Floyd was white ………..

    There are a lot of white people who support BLM in the US. From this distance it's hard to be sure but I suspect there are a lot of generally low-income people in the US who are at the end of their tether with regard to state-sanctioned killings and are saying "enough is enough".

    BLM is a convenient slogan and the basic message resonates. Stop killing us!!

    BLM isn't just about black people.


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    #34
    wicklowstevo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 919 ✭✭✭wicklowstevo


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Oh, I think he will be done for the manslaughter charge then. And surprised he didn't try take a plea bargain for that.

    not a hope in the world would the state agree to a plea nor would one be offered

    America would burn for months


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    #35
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    wicklowstevo wrote: »
    not a hope in the world would the state agree to a plea nor would one be offered

    America would burn for months

    this is it. There is a possibility its all a show trial and the guy is getting life for murder just to stop cities burning


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    #36
    Sandor Clegane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭Sandor Clegane


    Id give a fair amount of leeway to guards being rough when tackling a guy or restraining someone who is resisting...

    But the man knelt on his neck pressing his full bodyweight down on him for 9 minutes when he was flat on his stomach and not resisting plus complaining of not being able to breath...

    Regarding what was in Floyd's system, drugs or no drugs this cop had a pivotal role in this mans death, at the very least voluntary manslaughter but I wouldn't argue murder, cop deserves everything thats coming to him.


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    #37
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,644 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Sandor Clegane wrote: »
    Id give a fair amount of leeway to guards being rough when tackling a guy or restraining someone who is resisting...

    But the man knelt on his neck pressing his full bodyweight down on him for 9 minutes when he was flat on his stomach and not resisting plus complaining of not being able to breath...

    Regarding what was in Floyd's system, drugs or no drugs this cop had a pivotal role in this mans death, at the very least voluntary manslaughter but I wouldn't argue murder, cop deserves everything thats coming to him.

    That is the most damaging piece of evidence against the defendant because there was no need to kneel like that for nine minutes and when you hear someone saying “I can’t breath...” your natural reaction is to check and try and help them. Did he try and pepper spray a paramedic who tried to check on George floyd ? That’s a bizarre thing to do if I’m remembering that right.


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    #38
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Thats what I think will happen, as I said an unfortunate accident while trying to restrain a drug crazed criminal resisting arrest.

    Give over. Did Chauvin accidentally keep his knee on Floyd's neck for nearly three minutes when he knew he had no pulse?


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    #39
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,015 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    That is the most damaging piece of evidence against the defendant because there was no need to kneel like that for nine minutes and when you hear someone saying “I can’t breath...” your natural reaction is to check and try and help them. Did he try and pepper spray a paramedic who tried to check on George floyd ? That’s a bizarre thing to do if I’m remembering that right.

    Problem was , Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe well before he was put on the ground. Likely the cops thought he was spoofing. Also heard there's evidentof him doing similar in a previous arrest to try and buy time to dispose of drugs, but haven't seen anything definitive on that.


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    #40
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    this is it. There is a possibility its all a show trial and the guy is getting life for murder just to stop cities burning

    Nope.

    He'll go to prison because he killed a man.

    It couldn't be any clearer. It was caught on video.


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    #41
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,816 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Should be guilty, all of them should be. Of course these are cops, the most corrupt people on earth, so anything is possible.

    Even the arrest video shows corruption and the fact they were dirty cops, passing drugs, pocketing drugs.


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    #42
    Curse These Metal Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Nope.

    He'll go to prison because he killed a man.

    It couldn't be any clearer. It was caught on video.

    If only it were that simple. I think it will be the lesser of charges. The whole thing hinges on which autopsy the jury buy, the one that indicates the knee as the sole cause of the one that lists substances, heart condition, covid 19 and the knee as the cause. Basically asking 12 lay people to choose which medical evidence they believe.

    Couple that with America's history of convicting cops..


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    #43
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »
    If only it were that simple. I think it will be the lesser of charges. The whole thing hinges on which autopsy the jury buy, the one that indicates the knee as the sole cause of the one that lists substances, heart condition, covid 19 and the knee as the cause. Basically asking 12 lay people to choose which medical evidence they believe.

    The autopsy ruled the death as homicide.

    We've all seen the video. Anyone trying the "well he had drugs in his system" is playing a game. There is no doubt that the police officer killed him. None!


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    #44
    Curse These Metal Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    The autopsy ruled the death as homicide.

    We've all seen the video. Anyone trying the "well he had drugs in his system" is playing a game. There is no doubt that the police officer killed him. None!

    There are two autopsies. I'm inclined to agree with you, but the job is to convince the jury and the defences case isn't entirely flimsy.


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    #45
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »
    There are two autopsies.

    Which both say he died by homicide


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    #46
    Curse These Metal Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Which both say he died by homicide
    That doesn't mean murder. Again, I think the defence can create enough doubt to get the lesser charge. But we'll see, I hope there's a prison sentence regardless.


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    #47
    DerekC16
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭DerekC16


    What's the racial make up of the jury?


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    #48
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »
    That doesn't mean murder.

    No, but it means he was killed by a human being.

    The human being in this case being the man accused of for murder.


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    #49
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    I hope for the sake of innocent people and business owners in cities across America he is sent down


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    #50
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    Police have a duty of care to themselves, colleagues and the public when aprehending criminals. Floyd had a history of violence and was drugged up to the eye balls. Obviously they have a duty of care to Floyd too but one would have to ask was there immediate danger to police and the public? I would probably say with hesitation, yes. Floyd was unpredictable and angry. Having said that, police out numbered him and to stick a knee on him for the length and with that force is a manslaughter charge. There was no need whatsoever for that kind of action, Chauvin deserves time for sure. No one deserves to die in that fashion, no matter what they did.

    Interesting trial ahead. Like a few posters said above, the cop will most likely serve big time in order to keep the peace, there will be uproar if he walks free.


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    #51
    Curse These Metal Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    No, but it means he was killed by a human being.

    The human being in this case being the man accused of for murder.

    And manslaughter. The lesser charge...


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    #52
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,644 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    DerekC16 wrote: »
    What's the racial make up of the jury?

    According to journalist who was on bbc radio 4 a bit ago, it’s a diverse one with it split 50-50 between whites and non whites.

    I know it’s a bit sterile but at the end of the day the prosecutions job is to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that the former police officer in question is guilty of the charges against him. And the defence is there to provide the doubt. I mean the OJ trail jurors said after the fact that prosecution didn’t prove beyond a doubt that he did it even if they may have felt he was guilty.


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    #53
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    I don't see how they can go with murder on it, but my god it will not be well received by the public.

    Im personally predicting manslaughter unless they can truly hammer home the toxicology report evidence. The public won't like it but its the right thing to do, 8-10 years.

    I know it varies by jurisdiction in the US. But, in the main, murder involves intent to kill. I can't see how it could be argued that this cop intended to kill George Floyd.

    I'd agree with the above.


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    #54
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,793 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    I hope for the sake of innocent people and business owners in cities across America he is sent down


    I agree. You dont want a dodgy cop going free to harass more innocent people or business owners


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    #55
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    If OJ walked theres no reason This guy couldn't too.


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    #56
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    Curse These Metal Hands wrote: »
    And manslaughter. The lesser charge...

    Yup.

    My point is, it doesn't matter if he can cough syrup in his system. He died by human hand.

    Those playing the "he was a drug-fueled criminal" are playing games. Most likely to be self-identified "Patriots" or Trump supporters or the like. It's not a coincidence.

    We all know the ones. Very likely to call someone "woke"


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    #57
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Lundstram wrote: »
    Like a few posters said above, the cop will most likely serve big time in order to keep the peace, there will be uproar if he walks free.

    The worst possible outcome is a verdict not based on the evidence. I hope this is not the case.


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    #58
    Curse These Metal Hands
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Yup.

    My point is, it doesn't matter if he can cough syrup in his system. He died by human hand.

    Those playing the "he was a drug-fueled criminal" are playing games. Most likely to be "Patriots" or Trump supporters or the like. It's not a coincidence.

    We all know the ones. Very likely to call someone "woke"

    Sorry I misread your opening post.

    Yeah. I just worry that there's a certain level of public perception that the murder conviction is in the bag, my point is that the defence has a decent case for manslaughter. Will the American public accept a manslaughter conviction should it come to pass I wonder?


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    #59
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    KaneToad wrote: »
    The worst possible outcome is a verdict not based on the evidence. I hope this is not the case.

    True. Emotions cannot come into it.

    IMO, he didn't intend to kill him but did heavily contribute to his death. 10 years sounds about right.


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    #60
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,723 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    Yup.

    My point is, it doesn't matter if he can cough syrup in his system. He died by human hand.

    Those playing the "he was a drug-fueled criminal" are playing games. Most likely to be self-identified "Patriots" or Trump supporters or the like. It's not a coincidence.

    We all know the ones. Very likely to call someone "woke"

    Yeah. Even if he was on loads of drugs it's a hell of a coincidence that he overdoses while a man has a knee on his neck.

    And if he did overdose should he not have had medical help instead of a man keeping a knee on his neck. Are you not then guilty of neglect causing death?

    I would be very surprised if he didn't kill him.


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    #61
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,644 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    KaneToad wrote: »
    The worst possible outcome is a verdict not based on the evidence. I hope this is not the case.

    It’d be a bad step alright.


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