Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

What are the bets that those calling for this guy to get away with this killing are the same lads who want no Covid restrictions, call Trump the greatest US President, spend a lot of time talking about immigration and use the term "woke" a lot?

Oh yeah?

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be fantastic if the woke crowd showed as much compassion to the innocent victims of career criminals as they do to the actual career criminals.

That's a bingo!

BorneTobyWilde

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Typical.. a very similar narrative to our own St George case, where people would also argue what happened before hand and his numerous attempts to stab officers on the scene are irrelevant. You just can't argue with smooth brains like this, it's a waste of energy.

Every case if different. We know that George was put in cuffs straight away and was in no way a danger to anyone, least not 5 armed cops

Nozebleed

The court filing says the child tried to talk with officers about his mother, but they yelled at him to stand up. The officers quickly grabbed him and Chauvin hit the child in the head with his flashlight.

Two seconds later, Chauvin grabbed the boy’s throat and struck him again in the head with the flashlight.

“The child cried out that they were hurting him, and to stop, and called out ‘mom,’” according to the filing.

Chauvin applied a neck restraint, causing the child to temporarily pass out and fall to the ground. The officers placed him in the prone position and handcuffed him behind his back while his mother pleaded with the officers not to kill her son and told her son to stop resisting.

“About a minute after going to the ground, the child began repeatedly telling the officers that he could not breathe, and his mother told Chauvin to take his knee off her son,” prosecutors wrote. They added that the mother asked Chauvin to take his knee off her son four times because her son couldn’t breathe, but that Chauvin maintained his position and replied that her son, who Chauvin described as 6 feet, 2 inches tall and at least 240 pounds, was “a big guy.”

Prosecutors say the body camera footage showed Chauvin was kneeling on the 14-year-old boy’s back for a total of 17 minutes despite repeated requests by the teenager to turn him on his back because he couldn’t breathe.

if this is true...then kneeling on george floyd for 9 minutes would not have caused his death directly..its clear drugs played a huge role in his death.

MrStuffins

punisher5112 wrote: »

drugs he ingested were put in autopsy results as very high, high enough to cause the health issues he died from

Wrong.

punisher5112

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Every case if different. We know that George was put in cuffs straight away and was in no way a danger to anyone, least not 5 armed cops

Of course a man is dangerous even when cuffed, many a correctional officer and police officer has died at the hands of a perp....

BorneTobyWilde

I guess it must be cops on here defending cops, as they do. Hope Chauvin rots in prison.

Timberrrrrrrr

Nozebleed wrote: »

The court filing says the child tried to talk with officers about his mother, but they yelled at him to stand up. The officers quickly grabbed him and Chauvin hit the child in the head with his flashlight.

Two seconds later, Chauvin grabbed the boy’s throat and struck him again in the head with the flashlight.

“The child cried out that they were hurting him, and to stop, and called out ‘mom,’” according to the filing.

Chauvin applied a neck restraint, causing the child to temporarily pass out and fall to the ground. The officers placed him in the prone position and handcuffed him behind his back while his mother pleaded with the officers not to kill her son and told her son to stop resisting.

“About a minute after going to the ground, the child began repeatedly telling the officers that he could not breathe, and his mother told Chauvin to take his knee off her son,” prosecutors wrote. They added that the mother asked Chauvin to take his knee off her son four times because her son couldn’t breathe, but that Chauvin maintained his position and replied that her son, who Chauvin described as 6 feet, 2 inches tall and at least 240 pounds, was “a big guy.”

Prosecutors say the body camera footage showed Chauvin was kneeling on the 14-year-old boy’s back for a total of 17 minutes despite repeated requests by the teenager to turn him on his back because he couldn’t breathe.

if this is true...then kneeling on george floyd for 9 minutes would not have caused his death directly..its clear drugs played a huge role in his death.

Why?

The kid was 14, Floyd was 46 a 32 year difference, that's like saying kneeling on a 50 year old would be the same as kneeling on an 82 year old.

punisher5112

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I guess it must be cops on here defending cops, as they do. Hope Chauvin rots in prison.

I laughed.....

Timberrrrrrrr

punisher5112 wrote: »

Of course a man is dangerous even when cuffed, many a correctional officer and police officer has died at the hands of a perp....

Not when the perp is fave down and cuffed, absolutely no need for a knee to the neck with that much pressure when a firm hand between the shoulder blades would have had the same effect.

punisher5112

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Not when the perp is fave down and cuffed, absolutely no need for a knee to the neck with that much pressure when a firm hand between the shoulder blades would have had the same effect.

But you said a cuffed suspect isn't a danger.

He wasn't on the ground all the time and if you watched all the video available you would understand.

BorneTobyWilde

punisher5112 wrote: »

I laughed.....

You sound like a cop, or you have close connection to cops. On here trying to defend the indefensibly , big man on a power trip trying to make up for your shortcomings. You're a robot, can't think for yourself, a lost cause, no one could every get through to you. If you say water is dry I'd be wasting my time trying to convince you it's wet.

punisher5112

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vroOHIAwZSk

These evil bastardos were unarmed and cuffed, yet killed prison guards....

Royal Irish

punisher5112 wrote: »

Of course a man is dangerous even when cuffed, many a correctional officer and police officer has died at the hands of a perp....

I'd kind of like to hear of an example of a prison guard or cop being killed by someone with their hands cuffed behind their back.

Care to share?

punisher5112

Royal Irish wrote: »

I'd kind of like to hear of an example of a prison guard or cop being killed by someone with their hands cuffed behind their back.

Care to share?

Look above

Timberrrrrrrr

punisher5112 wrote: »

But you said a cuffed suspect isn't a danger.

He wasn't on the ground all the time and if you watched all the video available you would understand.

No, I said cuffed and face down on the ground, that's totally different.

Necro

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be fantastic if the woke crowd showed as much compassion to the innocent victims of career criminals as they do to the actual career criminals.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes, we would be a lot safer for it....

To be honest social media is an absolute cess pool and creates more of these numpties.

They're extremely dangerous with their mad ideology.

Mod:

This has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, drop it now and discuss the topic or don't post here

Royal Irish

punisher5112 wrote: »

Look above

Doesn't say in the video you posted that they had their hands cuffed behind their backs.

punisher5112

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

You sound like a cop, or you have close connection to cops. On here trying to defend the indefensibly , big man on a power trip trying to make up for your shortcomings. You're a robot, can't think for yourself, a lost cause, no one could every get through to you. If you say water is dry I'd be wasting my time trying to convince you it's wet.

This has to be one of the funniest comments against me I've ever had, absolutely hilarious....

Thanks for brightening up my evening.

punisher5112

Royal Irish wrote: »

Doesn't say in the video you posted that they had their hands cuffed behind their backs.

Many many more, guns taken and shot, you asked how it could happen I've given you a answer.

You do know many of these guys and girls can put there arms down and under and bring them back to the front, guns have been taken and used against officers too while still cuffed to the rear.


One place I would hate to be a cop is America.

lawrencesummers

Hard to see from the bits I’ve watched what either sides of the prosecution / defense are actually trying to accomplish other than extending their amount of national TV FaceTime.

This entire thing is being drawn out to ridiculous levels.

BorneTobyWilde

punisher5112 wrote: »

This has to be one of the funniest comments against me I've ever had, absolutely hilarious....

Thanks for brightening up my evening.

Thanks for confirming my point


''
If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.''

punisher5112

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Thanks for confirming my point


''
If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.''

Is this not a personal attack and against boards charter....?

I have not made any personal attacks or called anyone on here a fool.

Very unprofessional.

Ted_YNWA

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

You sound like a cop, or you have close connection to cops. On here trying to defend the indefensibly , big man on a power trip trying to make up for your shortcomings. You're a robot, can't think for yourself, a lost cause, no one could every get through to you. If you say water is dry I'd be wasting my time trying to convince you it's wet.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Thanks for confirming my point


''
If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet.''

Mod

If you want to continue posting here, drop whatever vendetta you have with this poster. There is no call for repeated attacks.

MrStuffins

punisher5112 wrote: »

Is this not a personal attack and against boards charter....?

I have not made any personal attacks or called anyone on here a fool.

Very unprofessional.

Two questions:

1) Do you believe that Mr Chauvin is liable for the death of Mr. Floyd?

2) Do you think the above poster is a professional Boards message board contributor?

Royal Irish

punisher5112 wrote: »

Many many more, guns taken and shot, you asked how it could happen I've given you a answer.

You do know many of these guys and girls can put there arms down and under and bring them back to the front, guns have been taken and used against officers too while still cuffed to the rear.


One place I would hate to be a cop is America.

Yeah you still haven't given me an example of it happening and now you're just telling me how someone could do it.

punisher5112

Royal Irish wrote: »

Yeah you still haven't given me an example of it happening and now you're just telling me how someone could do it.

Seen on cop shows over the years and to try and dig out would be very difficult....

Obviously it's rare but I'm telling you the truth it has and does happen, these thugs will do anything to escape and an officer's life is absolutely meaningless to them and they would do it as quick as you would change a channel....

Jerrykay6

Royal Irish wrote: »

Yeah you still haven't given me an example of it happening and now you're just telling me how someone could do it.

A 6'8 well-built African could do serious damage with a kick if he was let.

Timberrrrrrrr

punisher5112 wrote: »

Seen on cop shows over the years and to try and dig out would be very difficult....

Obviously it's rare but I'm telling you the truth it has and does happen, these thugs will do anything to escape and an officer's life is absolutely meaningless to them and they would do it as quick as you would change a channel....

Chauvin knelt on Floyd's neck after he was cuffed and lying on his stomach.

Here's an experiment for you.

1. Lie on the floor on your stomach

2. Ask someone to restrain/tie your wrists behind you

3. Ask the person to kneel next to you and place their hand between your shoulder blades.

4. Attempt to get up, please try this and see how impossible it is to get up, Then please explain to us how Floyd was such a danger to the police officer that he needed to kneel on his neck.

Royal Irish

punisher5112 wrote: »

Seen on cop shows over the years and to try and dig out would be very difficult....

Obviously it's rare but I'm telling you the truth it has and does happen, these thugs will do anything to escape and an officer's life is absolutely meaningless to them and they would do it as quick as you would change a channel....

Seeing as you can't show me any examples of it actually happening I googled it myself. I typed "Cuffed suspect kills cop" and the first page was just stories of cops shooting cuffed suspects. Murica.

Timberrrrrrrr

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

A 6'8 well-built African could do serious damage with a kick if he was let.

What does "African" have to do with anything? A 5'5 skinny kid could also "do serious damage with a kick if he was let".

MrStuffins

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

A 6'8 well-built African could do serious damage with a kick if he was let.

Strange choice of words.

Are your saying Africans are different in some way in this regard?

Mellor

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

A choke works by blocking the air traveling from the mouth up into the brain (via the trachea)..

That’s not how a choke works. Any choke or strangle.
The trachea isn’t connected to the brain. To cut off oxygen to the brain you compress the carotid artery. Which is on the side of the neck, where Chavin was kneeling.
So his throat being open to speak in no way means he couldn’t be choked.

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

i have been involved in martial arts for the better part of my life, while blood chokes are possible we are trained to use air chokes as they result in death (only under extreme self defense circumstances of course).

Not sure what martial art you train. But that’s also backwards.

KeepItLight

Mellor wrote: »

That’s not how a choke works. Any choke or strangle.
The trachea isn’t connected to the brain. To cut off oxygen to the brain you compress the carotid artery. Which is on the side of the neck, where Chavin was kneeling.
So his throat being open to speak in no way means he couldn’t be choked.

Wouldn't this kind of blood choke cause him to pass out within seconds?

Tony EH

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What does "African" have to do with anything? A 5'5 skinny kid could also "do serious damage with a kick if he was let".

What indeed.

Mellor

KeepItLight wrote: »

Not that I'm an expert or martial artist, but don't blood chokes take only few seconds to cause the victim to pass out? Once you cut off the bloodflow to the brain, its goodnight pretty much right away.

One would assume the accusation here is referring to the air choke considering victim shouting 'I can't breathe' repeatedly.

A full closed off blood supply will puts you out it seconds. But a partially closed of blood supply can still have effect as oxygen saturation in the brain slowly reduces. And even though it’s cutting off blood not air, it very much creates a “can’t breath” sensation.
Plus they don’t always exist in isolation. The position was likely partial closing air and blood supply. So while some was getting through, it wasn’t enough and he slowly choked over 9 minutes.

Call me Al

The firefighter Genevieve Hansen is taking no prisoners with Chauvin's defence attorney.
She us not letting him off with anything.

She has just said in response to a question about the demeanour of bystanders being upset and angry at the scene "Well I don't know if you've seen anybody be killed but it's upsetting."

Chauvin is not doing well right now.

Jerrykay6

Mellor wrote: »

A full closed off blood supply will puts you out it seconds. But a partially closed of blood supply can still have effect as oxygen saturation in the brain slowly reduces. And even though it’s cutting off blood not air, it very much creates a “can’t breath” sensation.
Plus they don’t always exist in isolation. The position was likely partial closing air and blood supply. So while some was getting through, it wasn’t enough and he slowly choked over 9 minutes.

Nonsense, you do realise the brain is fed by more than just the carotid arteries?

Dyr

Mellor wrote: »

That’s not how a choke works. Any choke or strangle.
The trachea isn’t connected to the brain. To cut off oxygen to the brain you compress the carotid artery. Which is on the side of the neck, where Chavin was kneeling.
So his throat being open to speak in no way means he couldn’t be choked.

I like how everyone is using the term blood choke like yanks, there's an english word for cutting the blood supply to the brain: strangle.




Not sure what martial art you train. But that’s also backwards.[/QUOTE]

Not really, a lot of BJJ guys don't seem to get this because I assume they don't use actual chokes (air) much. Cutting off oxygen to the brain by compression of the carotoids results in unconsciousness in a clean, quick way, once you release the compression the blood and oxygen flows again. usually. Cutting off oxygen to the lungs by compressing the windpipe will also cut off oxygen to brain but its slower and more difficult, more importantly its more dangerous as the force required to compress the windpipe enough to block it can also cause it to collapse or swell, resulting in no air getting into the lungs after the pressure is released

US cops stopped using restraints with their batons across the throat years ago for this reason, the risk is too great with compression of the windpipe

Mellor

KeepItLight wrote: »

Wouldn't this kind of blood choke cause him to pass out within seconds?

See above.
It can take seconds, but that requires both side carotids to be compressed. Probably unlikely when Chavin was kneeling on one side of his neck.
More likely there was partial compression of multiple parts of the neck, his heart was working harder, but lungs couldn't keep up and he was using up circulating oxygen faster than he was receiving any - while not being 100% cut off. Eventually he went syncope and his heart stopped.

Jerrykay6

MrStuffins wrote: »

Strange choice of words.

Are your saying Africans are different in some way in this regard?

There are obviously outliers but you'd have to be foolish not to accept that many of West African descent have exceptional genetics when it comes to athletics.

Jerrykay6

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What does "African" have to do with anything? A 5'5 skinny kid could also "do serious damage with a kick if he was let".

You'd rather take a kick from a 5'5 person as opposed to 6'8 George would you?

Jerrykay6

Mellor wrote: »

See above.
It can take seconds, but that requires both side carotids to be compressed. Probably unlikely when Chavin was kneeling on one side of his neck.
More likely there was partial compression of multiple parts of the neck, his heart was working harder, but lungs couldn't keep up and he was using up circulating oxygen faster than he was receiving any - while not being 100% cut off. Eventually he went syncope and his heart stopped.

Fentanyl is known to decrease BP which would contribute to his brain being inadequately perfused.

KB1980

BattleCorp wrote: »

It might not be murder. Kneeling on someone's kneck is an acceptable way of restraining someone in Minneapolis. At least it was until the Floyd incident. If the cop was restraining him as per police training, that might lessen the likelihood of it being murder. If the drugs in Floyd's system restricted his breathing further, then this also would lessen the likelihood of it being murder.

There's plenty of evidence still to be heard before we can say 100% that it was murder.



A police officer doesn't have the right to kill anyone. What they do have is the right to protect themselves and others and sometimes this means they have to use force. They can also use force when making an arrest if the person resists.

Did Chauvin use too much force? I can't say for sure. I'll wait to see what the court decides.



This is dumb. If the authorities are likely to use excessive force on minorities, you'd expect that the minorities would suffer less if the didn't resist arrest.



You grew up hating the police. Your views are especially biased so.

If the court found Chauvin not guilty, would you support that decision?

I am sure if you were the victim of something similar your remarks would be different. Not everyone is lucky enough to go through life without being the victim of some remarks/bias.

There has been far too many similar cases of police killing unarmed men and now is the time for them to answer.

Yes, we will wait for the verdict but I think it's fair to say that the defence has made their cases and whether found guilty or not I know what my verdict is.

MrStuffins

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Fentanyl is known to decrease BP which would contribute to his brain being inadequately perfused.

Not as much as the knee to his throat for 9+ minutes that caused his homicide

Jerrykay6

MrStuffins wrote: »

Not as much as the knee to his throat for 9+ minutes that caused his homicide

Knee on the neck would likely raise BP not lower it.

MrStuffins

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Knee on the neck would likely raise BP not lower it.

If lowered it to a full stop in this case according to two autopsies

Jerrykay6

MrStuffins wrote: »

If lowered it to a full stop in this case according to two autopsies

To be perfectly honest I really couldn't give a bollox about the treatment of violent criminals in America. In lieu of the inevitable "well then why are you posting" my response would be that that is an excellent point and I'm off to bed.

Mellor

Bambi wrote: »

I like how everyone is using the term blood choke like yanks, there's an english word for cutting the blood supply to the brain: strangle.

Strangle is the more technically accurate word.
Choke is more common in everyday parlance. As is chokehold as a general name.

Nothing to do with yanks tbh. The above applies in the US also. A rear naked choke can be either a choke or a strangle mechanically. But the name is generalised as choke.

Not really, a lot of BJJ guys don't seem to get this because I assume they don't use actual chokes (air) much.

You are assuming incorrectly.
Air choke are pretty common in BJJ and other martial arts.

Cutting off oxygen to the brain by compression of the carotoids results in unconsciousness in a clean, quick way, once you release the compression the blood and oxygen flows again. usually. Cutting off oxygen to the lungs by compressing the windpipe will also cut off oxygen to brain but its slower and more difficulty, more importantly its more dangerous as the force required to compress the windpipe enough to block it can also cause it to collapse or swell, resulting in no air getting into the lungs after the pressure is released

Not really likely tbh. You might crack a cartilage, or suffer tracea abrasions.
I mean, it's definitely possiblethat the windpipe could remain collapsed. But it's extremely rare. I've heard of it happening once, non fatally.
It's never occurred in professional MMA/BJJ afaik where thousands and thousands of people are training and competing.

And the same applies to Blood chokes/strangles btw. In extreme cases, they can cause carotid tears, or blood clots leading to strokes. But as with the above, very rare.

US cops stopped using restraints with their batons across the throat years ago for this reason, the risk is too great with compression of the windpipe

There's obviously a pretty big difference between using arms/clothing, and a hard metal bar - which is basically a big lever to increase the force and focus it over a smaller area. That will definitely severely damage cartilage. Which is obviously excessive force and a massive liability for cops.

Mellor

Jerrykay6 wrote: »

Nonsense, you do realise the brain is fed by more than just the carotid arteries?

I don't see how that is relevant to anything in the post you quoted, let alone contradicts any of it. The other arteries are the vertebral arteries, inside the spine - nothing I said excludes their existence.

Hilariously that your pulling this card after you claimed air travels from mouth to brain via the trachea. :pac::pac::pac:

It's a little bit telling that the posters leaping to the defense of Chauvin are ignoring his history of undue force. Doing it to a fourteen year old for seventeen minutes...