IFA v Lidl/Aldi

odyssey06 · 27-03-2021 11:52PM

green daries wrote: »

Ya totally the mind boggles at the lack of understanding of what a brand is what it involves and how a brand is actually protected by law but sure nobody is coming in undercutting these peoples incomes and just replacing them with a labour unit willing to do there job for half their pay .....
Be a slightly different story then

Whose brand protection in law is being infringed by LIDls actions?
And if so why havent then taken remedy in law?
Instead of an ad in a national newspaper by the IFA which is now the subject of a defamation suit?

colm_mcm · 28-03-2021 12:06AM

You mean milk for Lidl’s 150odd stores aren’t supplied by 1 farm?

Never shopping there again.

Bass Reeves · 28-03-2021 12:23AM

Own brand milk is here to stay unless the co-op's decide not to supply it. However any joint decision would be decided to be anti competitive. It was the co-op's that decided to supply it in the first place. Therefore there is no point in blaming consumers or retailers. Natural supply and demand should drive up prices anyway if there is other more profitable products or markets.

Liquid milk can never really be branded as a premium product. There has been attemp's to brand fortified or high protein milks. However expecting consumers to pay an extra 30-50%+ just because there is a co-op name as opposed to a own brand name on it is not going to happen. The same case can be made for cheese, yogurts creams, etc.

What I cannot understand us where the IFA is coming from with this. Who is driving it and why. In one way you look at it and day at least to a certain extent dairy farmers are getting a fairly equitable price for there product. The same cannot be said for beef yet IFA ran with this from the start and are inactive on beef.

But what is really glaringly obvious is the way the attack is targeted at the two discounters. They have completely ignored the other three groups, Tesco's, Dunnes and Musgrave's.

Kerry group about 10 years ago exited liquid milk. There reasoning were was the margin was too low. They seem intent on exiting mill processing if they can manage to get the Co-op the buy it. I be more afraid of this if I was a milk supplier than of own branded milk. A huge MNC deciding it is going to exit milk processing and a co-op boards made up of idiots that is thinking of helping them is something to worry about.

If Kerry group exit milk processing it can then source it's milk powder and other ingredients anywhere it wants, dare I say it by tendering out contracts

alps · 28-03-2021 01:05AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Own brand milk is here to stay unless the co-op's decide not to supply it. However any joint decision would be decided to be anti competitive. It was the co-op's that decided to supply it in the first place. Therefore there is no point in blaming consumers or retailers. Natural supply and demand should drive up prices anyway if there is other more profitable products or markets.

Liquid milk can never really be branded as a premium product. There has been attemp's to brand fortified or high protein milks. However expecting consumers to pay an extra 30-50%+ just because there is a co-op name as opposed to a own brand name on it is not going to happen. The same case can be made for cheese, yogurts creams, etc.

What I cannot understand us where the IFA is coming from with this. Who is driving it and why. In one way you look at it and day at least to a certain extent dairy farmers are getting a fairly equitable price for there product. The same cannot be said for beef yet IFA ran with this from the start and are inactive on beef.

But what is really glaringly obvious is the way the attack is targeted at the two discounters. They have completely ignored the other three groups, Tesco's, Dunnes and Musgrave's.

Kerry group about 10 years ago exited liquid milk. There reasoning were was the margin was too low. They seem intent on exiting mill processing if they can manage to get the Co-op the buy it. I be more afraid of this if I was a milk supplier than of own branded milk. A huge MNC deciding it is going to exit milk processing and a co-op boards made up of idiots that is thinking of helping them is something to worry about.

If Kerry group exit milk processing it can then source it's milk powder and other ingredients anywhere it wants, dare I say it by tendering out contracts

Sometimes, just sometimes you talk some sense...

Geuze · 28-03-2021 02:51AM

I pay 1.49 for 2L of milk, own-brand.

Can anybody tell me the breakdown of this?

How much do farmers get paid for liquid milk (not manufacturing milk)?

Does anybody know how much the processors sell the milk for (I doubt it)?

whelan2 · 28-03-2021 06:28AM

Geuze wrote: »

I pay 1.49 for 2L of milk, own-brand.

Can anybody tell me the breakdown of this?

How much do farmers get paid for liquid milk (not manufacturing milk)?

Does anybody know how much the processors sell the milk for (I doubt it)?

I got 44cpl for liquid milk for February

Masifxx · 28-03-2021 04:20PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

And this relates to the IFA ad how?
How is LIDL selling under some madeup name v LIDL milk different to Tesco own brand selling?

Why don’t they just use Lidl milk instead of making up a Creamery. It works or they wouldnt do it. With the legal threats the IFA will have to back Down now as Lidl/Aldi have a bottomless pit for legal fees. Sickening.

The J Stands for Jay · 28-03-2021 04:48PM

cute geoge wrote: »

All the better the more publicity these scam brands get the more people that will pass them by .

Could you explain what the scam is here?

odyssey06 · 28-03-2021 04:51PM

Masifxx wrote: »

Why don’t they just use Lidl milk instead of making up a Creamery. It works or they wouldnt do it. With the legal threats the IFA will have to back Down now as Lidl/Aldi have a bottomless pit for legal fees. Sickening.

Why is Kerrygold sold as Kerrygold and not 'Ornua'?
Does all the butter come from Kerry? Will the IFA take an ad out objecting to that?

Somebody liked the name of it in LIDL.
But the customers in LIDL don't give two hoots about brand advertising or they wouldn't be shopping there.

The IFA have to back down cos they haven't a leg to stand on.
If LIDL were breaking the law and infringing on another brand, trademark or protected term - well the IFA wouldn't be dealing with it by publishing ads that lead themselves open to accusations of defamation would they?

The J Stands for Jay · 28-03-2021 04:52PM

cute geoge wrote: »

a scam brand is a brand that delivers nothing back to the supplier .We all know that supermarket ownbrand milk is a loss leader but aldi/lidl are trying to pull a stunt that branded milk is also a loss leader

Aldi don't sell any milk other than their own label cartons.

Brands don't deliver anything back to suppliers in any industry. They deliver value to the brand owners.

I hear that HB ice-cream comes from the multinational conglomerate Unilever, and not from Hazel Brook Farm.

The J Stands for Jay · 28-03-2021 05:00PM

green daries wrote: »

but sure nobody is coming in undercutting these peoples incomes and just replacing them with a labour unit willing to do there job for half their pay .....

Yes, those people working in Dell, Gateway, Fruit of the Loom would be up in arms if their jobs went to cheaper countries. Imagine the outrage amongst travel agents, bank tellers, postmasters,and journalists if someone suggested the internet could replace their jobs.

screamer · 28-03-2021 05:10PM

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

Jizique · 28-03-2021 05:18PM

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

Good for you - we used to buy Glenisk, but it didn’t foam properly on my wife’s coffee so we switched to the Aldi organic, which is perfect

Bass Reeves · 28-03-2021 05:38PM

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

You are deluded

Calahonda52 · 28-03-2021 05:44PM

McGaggs wrote: »

Yes, those people working in Dell, Gateway, Fruit of the Loom would be up in arms if their jobs went to cheaper countries. Imagine the outrage amongst travel agents, bank tellers, postmasters,and journalists if someone suggested the internet could replace their jobs.

If You can do your job from anywhere ( in this new digital age)
Then
Someone anywhere can do YOUR job

The J Stands for Jay · 28-03-2021 05:56PM

Calahonda52 wrote: »

If You can do your job from anywhere ( in this new digital age)
Then
Someone anywhere can do YOUR job

Yes, but this is also true of senior management, so they keep it quiet too.

youllbemine · 28-03-2021 06:00PM

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

The argument that milk is better because it lasts longer isn't a very reassuring point. If milk is lasting beyond 3/4 days then it's been so processed that theres no life left in it.

MF290 · 28-03-2021 06:13PM

I can see very little chance of Irish milk ever being more than a bargain basement commodity with ever tighter margins based on the pervasive attitudes here.
It becomes a perpetual race to the bottom if the like of Lidl/Aldi can invent an imaginary creamery to compete with co-op owned brands. It also damages smaller authentic brands and the premium they enjoy if the consumer struggles to differentiate between Lidl own brand and a premium product. Let's not overestimate the consumer's knowledge of dairy supply chains either, I'm a beef farmer and I only have a rudimentary understanding of it.
Consumers are largely price orientated but not completely why else would Tesco/Supervalue stock more expensive brands and own brands? Why would there be an Audi, Volkswagen and a Skoda?
Strathroy are currently paying a higher milk price to the farmer than many coops but with ever lower margins, pushing farmer owned coops profits lower. It's farmers who will be paying the cost of decreased margins long term, not the consumer, the middlemain or the supermarket.
Food branding and labelling are massive issues. In a similar vein vegan and vegetarian products are currently borrowing traditional meat terminology to market products which are anything but similar nutritionally.
Liquid milk is small in terms of dairy output but take for example the branding of infant formula. Irish farmers supply the green image and the high quality safe product at commodity prices while large corporation like Danone and Wyeth harvest most of the profits solely based on brand. Eoin Lowry and Lorcan Allen did a very interesting series on this. https://www.farmersjournal.ie/should-ireland-develop-an-infant-formula-brand-304497
Irish farmers are asleep at the wheel relinquishing control of their coops, allowing existing brands be undermined and producing more for less.

RandomViewer · 28-03-2021 06:16PM

screamer wrote: »

I find all own brand milk to be pure muck compared to the main brands, and I only buy that. Price is more I know that, but I prefer to pay an extra 50 cents for 2 litres, I can taste the difference between them, and being honest, the main brand milk lasts far longer too.

I used to work in a creamery, they come from the same tank, Summer quality would be better than Winter as thered be a mix of one and two day milk in Winter

odyssey06 · 28-03-2021 06:23PM

MF290 wrote: »

I can see very little chance of Irish milk ever being more than a bargain basement commodity with ever tighter margins based on the pervasive attitudes here.
It becomes a perpetual race to the bottom if the like of Lidl/Aldi can invent an imaginary creamery to compete with co-op owned brands. It also damages smaller authentic brands and the premium they enjoy if the consumer struggles to differentiate between Lidl own brand and a premium product.

I think you have it the wrong way around.
What's "premium" about the "premium" product from the consumer's perspective?

If the consumer struggles to differentiate between own brand under an invented 'creamery' label, between Tesco own brand, and some co-op label which is just an invented label, should you not ask yourself if there is a differentiation?
If the only difference is that LIDL have creamery on the label?
They don't detect any real difference in the product.

Certainly nothing worth paying a premium for or - in the LIDL case - buying their milk elsewhere.
LIDL aren't competing with co-op brands.
They are competing with Tesco, Supervalu, Dunnes and ALDI.

Consumers are largely price orientated but not completely why else would Tesco/Supervalue stock more expensive brands and own brands? Why would there be an Audi, Volkswagen and a Skoda?

It would be interesting to see the demographic breakdown of milk purchases in Tesco\Supervalu for own brand sales v branded sales.
I expect a lot of the brand based purchases are simply brand loyalty purchases by older consumers who always bought brand X.

odyssey06 · 28-03-2021 06:24PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

I used to work in a creamery, they come from the same tank, Summer quality would be better than Winter as thered be a mix of one and two day milk in Winter

I wonder if the shelf life relates to some other factor, such as how quickly the product makes it into store, packaging etc

Avonmore milk says:
Keep refrigerated between 0ºC and 5ºC. Once opened consume within 7 days and use by date

Supervalu own brand milk says:
Keep refrigerated at 0º-5ºC. Once opened use within 3 days and before use by date shown on top of carton.

wrangler · 28-03-2021 06:30PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I wonder if the shelf life relates to some other factor, such as how quickly the product makes it into store, packaging etc

Avonmore milk says:
Keep refrigerated between 0ºC and 5ºC. Once opened consume within 7 days and use by date

Supervalu own brand milk says:
Keep refrigerated at 0º-5ºC. Once opened use within 3 days and before use by date shown on top of carton.

I'd say that the reason that supermarkets use own brand is so that the creameries always have to compete to supply own brand, they can take milk from anywhere for it....... race to the bottom really

whelan2 · 28-03-2021 06:35PM

Would many people take 7 days to use up a carton of milk?

odyssey06 · 28-03-2021 06:43PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Would many people take 7 days to use up a carton of milk?

Probably not! But I am curious as to why they would be different and what the LIDL carton says

odyssey06 · 28-03-2021 06:50PM

wrangler wrote: »

I'd say that the reason that supermarkets use own brand is so that the creameries always have to compete to supply own brand, they can take milk from anywhere for it....... race to the bottom really

For sure, but all supermarkets are doing it, not just LIDL and ALDI.
All the main supermarkets have own brand milk.

An ad attacking LIDL and ALDI for 'fake' brand or a campaign which compelled LIDL and ALDI to use own brand would do nothing about the above situation.

RandomViewer · 28-03-2021 07:02PM

wrangler wrote: »

I'd say that the reason that supermarkets use own brand is so that the creameries always have to compete to supply own brand, they can take milk from anywhere for it....... race to the bottom really

The idea of own brand is that it will be cheaper than branded, whether milk, bread or pasta, branded product has an an advantage as they are stocked in more stores than own brands, what they lose in supermarket sales they take up in convenience store sales,
The farmers are getting the same money whether its branded or unbranded so where is the race to the bottom?

wrangler · 28-03-2021 07:16PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

The idea of own brand is that it will be cheaper than branded, whether milk, bread or pasta, branded product has an an advantage as they are stocked in more stores than own brands, what they lose in supermarket sales they take up in convenience store sales,
The farmers are getting the same money whether its branded or unbranded so where is the race to the bottom?

The creameries have to under cut each other to supply the own brand. lower prices drags down all products.
I doubt if supermarkets lose money on own brand

RandomViewer · 28-03-2021 09:54PM

wrangler wrote: »

The creameries have to under cut each other to supply the own brand. lower prices drags down all products.
I doubt if supermarkets lose money on own brand

Most own brand is plastic bottle 2l, whereas branded product is Tetra carton, production cost of printed Tetra is higher than plastic 2l so is priced accordingly, most creameries also sell a sub brand of their own in the price range of supermarket own brand,

Jizique · 28-03-2021 10:24PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Most own brand is plastic bottle 2l, whereas branded product is Tetra carton, production cost of printed Tetra is higher than plastic 2l so is priced accordingly, most creameries also sell a sub brand of their own in the price range of supermarket own brand,

When I was a kid, cream crackers were a thing; club milks, both easily advertised and owned by Jacobs with their big factory in Tallaght, cream crackers with a slice of cheddar; these products have largely disappeared, they are never advertised any more - did the brands not get the support from the owner or did consumer taste change? At least with milk, demand should be largely stable and the threat is from alt milk rather than from own label

Jizique · 28-03-2021 10:26PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I wonder if the shelf life relates to some other factor, such as how quickly the product makes it into store, packaging etc

Avonmore milk says:
Keep refrigerated between 0ºC and 5ºC. Once opened consume within 7 days and use by date

Supervalu own brand milk says:
Keep refrigerated at 0º-5ºC. Once opened use within 3 days and before use by date shown on top of carton.

Good luck putting avonmore on your tea seven days after opening

IFA v Lidl/Aldi

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