IFA v Lidl/Aldi

youllbemine

What will be the outcome of the IFA vs Lidl/Aldi High Court decision?

It looks like the IFA are not happy with these supermarket brands being used to market milk as coming from an imaginary creamery. While those who supply the milk to Aldi and Lidl are furious and feel betrayed by the IFA, threatening to leave. The supermarkets are also coming after the IFA regarding the advertisements the IFA released and are saying that they're defamatory. Will be very interesting to see what comes of this.

Bass Reeves

You have to wonder what the IFA thinking was. They definately did not think of the repocussions. They have left themselves open to bring seen as favouring some milk supplier over other. This when Glanbia are trying to reimpose a peak quota

epfff

I can't figure why they went with this advertisement. There product is Irish. Did 1 of them not sign new contract with Arivo recently also.
Is there more to this than we know about?
It's going to cost the ifa more members unless they are able to explain themselves better than they have so far.

orm0nd

They will all be smiling the whole way to the banks,



The legal teams from both sides, that is, and free advertising for the supermarkets

whelan2

There are so many other avenues they could have gone but this one is ridiculous. Most of the products in aldi or lidl are rip offs of real brands and no problem with them just milk.

mahoney_j

Don’t know what the ifa are at here they are going after liquid suppliers in Arrabawn ,aurivo and Irish strathroy suppliers for the most part .a very targeted attack are they afraid to go after Glanbia who supply Tesco own brand .....can’t upset them
Coops need to be brought in line too they drive these discounted milk prices when they tender for contracts and undercut others just to get volume ,vast majority of customers don’t give a ****e about clonbawn ,clonree etc ...all about price major own goal here by the ifa who are once again splitting hairs on Irish liquid milk suppliers who may also be ifa members

Base price

When I first saw the IFA ad I couldn't figure what their agenda was other than milk cartons not showing the NDC label which I assume is on milk supplied by Strathroy but I stand corrected.
If it is the case then they are shooting themselves in the foot - when it comes to animal diseases (FMD etc) thankfully an all island approach is taken.

laoch na mona

Best case scenario from the IFA lidl and aldi just change the label, no change to prices so a waste of energy,

However now lidl are claiming defamation so the IFA have to foot a legal bill as well.

It was clearly a badly picked fight

MarkR

Not up on all the detail, did Lidl / Aldi have something incorrect on the label? Or is it that the brand name would lead people to believe it was an actual dairy somewhere?

laoch na mona

MarkR wrote: »

Not up on all the detail, did Lidl / Aldi have something incorrect on the label? Or is it that the brand name would lead people to believe it was an actual dairy somewhere?

My understand is whereas tesco dunnes etc own brand is just the shop name aldi/lidl use a made up own brand name ( a bit like st bernards for meat in Dunnes i suppose).


My question is why is that much different than own brand in general

The J Stands for Jay

laoch na mona wrote: »

My understand is whereas tesco dunnes etc own brand is just the shop name aldi/lidl use a made up own brand name ( a bit like st bernards for meat in Dunnes i suppose).


My question is why is that much different than own brand in general

Why does that cause an issue? Pretty much all products in Aldi and Lidl are own brand, so punters going there won't be looking at the brand on the packaging other than checking it's milk.

laoch na mona

McGaggs wrote: »

Why does that cause an issue? Pretty much all products in Aldi and Lidl are own brand, so punters going there won't be looking at the brand on the packaging other than checking it's milk.

your guess is as good as mine, thats what I got from asking on twitter anyway

Tombo2001

Not often I find myself in the Farming forum, but I do think the IFA have a fair point here.

The issue they are raising is where a brand fictitiously indicating a product comes from a family farm or a non-existent dairy.

Its not just milk. Ham, eggs etc.

Connell Farm.
Coolree Dairy
Clonbawn Creamery.
Healy Family Farm Eggs.

None of these places actually exist, except on the label of the product.

Why does this matter? Because there are real family farms trying to sell a product that is being drastically undercut.

laoch na mona

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Not often I find myself in the Farming forum, but I do think the IFA have a fair point here.

The issue they are raising is where a brand fictitiously indicating a product comes from a family farm or a non-existent dairy.

Its not just milk. Ham, eggs etc.

Connell Farm.
Coolree Dairy
Clonbawn Creamery.
Healy Family Farm Eggs.

None of these places actually exist, except on the label of the product.

Why does this matter? Because there are real family farms trying to sell a product that is being drastically undercut.

Aye but the outcome is stick a lidl/aldi label on the product and sell it for the same price, which doesn't do anything for farmers

youllbemine

The MIL was up in arms over Aldi and Lidl selling milk under a made up brand. But I think that's mainly because her husband was county chair and the IFA can do no wrong In her eyes. She'd go along with anything they say. I'd say she wont mention it now lol.

Am I right in thinking that the branding of milk in this way does not result in a reduced price for the farmer?? Grand if the IFA get the brand name changed but this won't mean increased milk prices at the farm gate will it? Which is what should be no. 1 priority from the IFA's point of view.

One question I would like an answer to before being able to comfortably take the MIL on is, are farmers supplying milk that ends up in Avonmore etc branded cartons (milk that costs more to the consumer) being paid anymore than the lads supplying milk that ends up in Coolree Creamery etc milk (Lidl/aldi)?

Something makes me think they're not...stand to be corrected though as I have no evidence to confirm this.

All the branding, advertising and big salaries have to be paid somehow!!

The J Stands for Jay

youllbemine wrote: »

Grand if the IFA get the brand name changed but this won't mean increased milk prices at the farm gate will it?

If Aldi and Lidl's supplier changed their name to match the brand on the cartons, would the problem go away? I don't think so, which is why I'm wondering what the IFA are really up to here.

I have no links to farming, so I've no idea about what things the IFA are working on and the issues being caused to farmers in this matter.

wrangler

youllbemine wrote: »

The MIL was up in arms over Aldi and Lidl selling milk under a made up brand. But I think that's mainly because her husband was county chair and the IFA can do no wrong In her eyes. She'd go along with anything they say. I'd say she wont mention it now lol.

Am I right in thinking that the branding of milk in this way does not result in a reduced price for the farmer?? Grand if the IFA get the brand name changed but this won't mean increased milk prices at the farm gate will it? Which is what should be no. 1 priority from the IFA's point of view.

One question I would like an answer to before being able to comfortably take the MIL on is, are farmers supplying milk that ends up in Avonmore etc branded cartons (milk that costs more to the consumer) being paid anymore than the lads supplying milk that ends up in Coolree Creamery etc milk (Lidl/aldi)?

Something makes me think they're not...stand to be corrected though as I have no evidence to confirm this.

All the branding, advertising and big salaries have to be paid somehow!!

It's hard to believe that a committee of farmers would take an action such as this....... and two other dairy committees would let them

VillageIdiot71

laoch na mona wrote: »

My understand is whereas tesco dunnes etc own brand is just the shop name aldi/lidl use a made up own brand name ( a bit like st bernards for meat in Dunnes i suppose).


My question is why is that much different than own brand in general

Indeed, and also pertinent is the fact made by another poster - which is that most of the stock in Lidl and Aldi are made-up brands; no customer of Lidl expects there's actually a Coolmore Creamery, any more than they expect there's a "Rowan Hill" bakery. It's just how Lidl and Aldi package their own brand stock.

The fake brands are actually a talking point. Like Aldi's "Okey Dokey" crisps looking suspiciously like Hunky Dorys.

IFA are either out of touch or they're suffering badly from lockdown fever.

whelan2

VillageIdiot71 wrote: »

Indeed, and also pertinent is the fact made by another poster - which is that most of the stock in Lidl and Aldi are made-up brands; no customer of Lidl expects there's actually a Coolmore Creamery, any more than they expect there's a "Rowan Hill" bakery. It's just how Lidl and Aldi package their own brand stock.

The fake brands are actually a talking point. Like Aldi's "Okey Dokey" crisps looking suspiciously like Hunky Dorys.

IFA are either out of touch or they're suffering badly from lockdown fever.

The lidl hunky dory equivalent are called howdy doodys

Bleating Lamb

What is the content of IFA ad?

Haven't heard anything about it.....is it on the radio or TV?

alps

wrangler wrote: »

It's hard to believe that a committee of farmers would take an action such as this....... and two other dairy committees would let them

What are the 3 dairy committees?

Base price

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

What is the content of IFA ad?

Haven't heard anything about it.....is it on the radio or TV?

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/lidl-refers-ifa-advertisement-to-its-legal-team-608800

lanod2407

For what it's worth, I would support the idea that shops should not be allowed to brand food with dairies, farms, etc that simply don't exist. There's gotta be a line drawn somewhere and selling with a make-up dairy name is surely crossing a consumer misinformation line.

lanod2407

VillageIdiot71 wrote: »

; no customer of Lidl expects there's actually a Coolmore Creamery, any more than they expect there's a "Rowan Hill" bakery. .

Where are you getting that statement from?
You're making a big assumption about the consumer and what they're entitled to in terms of provenance and accurate information.

80sDiesel

lanod2407 wrote: »

For what it's worth, I would support the idea that shops should not be allowed to brand food with dairies, farms, etc that simply don't exist. There's gotta be a line drawn somewhere and selling with a make-up dairy name is surely crossing a consumer misinformation line.

I would agree. Next it will be Mc Murphys’ beef burgers or o'shaughnessy shaughnessys’ chicken nuggets.

It’s a slippery slope so if you don’t nip it in the bud it can’t be stopped.

thenightman

Is there really a Pat the Baker churning out thousands of loaves of bread each night? Is Henry Denny still slaving away slicing bacon and filling sausages? no, and those brands are actually heavily advertised, unlike Aldi or Lidls own brand stuff which I honestly couldn't even name, and I've shopped solely in aldi for years at this stage.

The majority of people don't give product names in the discounters any thought whatsoever. Deciding factor is price and if the product tastes like what it's supposed to.

tanko

Exactly, "the consumer" couldn't give a damn what it says on the milk carton as long as its dirt cheap.

youllbemine

Can anyone give me a reliable source that says where milk that is sold in various supermarkets is sourced? So who the coop is and the location of the farmers who supply that milk (ireland or UK or europe etc) for own brand Tesco, aldi, lidl, dunnes, avonmore, town of monaghan etc.

I was told tonight that "everyone knows strathroy mix irish milk with milk from the uk and then sell it back to the ROI in the form of Aldi/Lidl Coolree creamery" etc. I find it hard to believe this is the case but again stand to be corrected.

If its Irish milk being supplied to aldi and lidl and the liquid milk producers are all getting paid similar amounts per litre of milk no matter who they supply to then the branding aint the issue. Although I do believe they should just brand it as their own brand as opposed to made up brands.

Or are the IFA using this so that a dirty secret is being revealed and hence why the discount retailers are coming down so hard on this one and getting heavy handed with the law??

The IFA could stand to lose a lot of members over this.

80sDiesel

thenightman wrote: »

The majority of people don't give product names in the discounters any thought whatsoever. Deciding factor is price and if the product tastes like what it's supposed to.

For sure. But if ‘Komeragh mountain lamb’ is a big seller, it’s not only commeragh mountain lamb farmers that lose out but the Irish brand.

whelan2

We get a food package from our secondary school while the kids are off. The milk brand is wholesome farms. Never heard of it before. No ndc logo. Distributed by sysco corporation in limerick. There is a uk / ni stamp on it.

wrangler

alps wrote: »

What are the 3 dairy committees?

Dairy Committee.
Fresh Milk Producers.
Liquid Milk Committee.

laoch na mona

80sDiesel wrote: »

I would agree. Next it will be Mc Murphys’ beef burgers or o'shaughnessy shaughnessys’ chicken nuggets.

It’s a slippery slope so if you don’t nip it in the bud it can’t be stopped.

We already have St. Bernards meat in dunnes sure

tabby aspreme

laoch na mona wrote: »

We already have St. Bernards meat in dunnes sure

Don't be saying things like that

The J Stands for Jay

lanod2407 wrote: »

Where are you getting that statement from?
You're making a big assumption about the consumer and what they're entitled to in terms of provenance and accurate information.

A brand name provides no information at all to consumers. People aren't going to go nuts when the hear the wheat in Weetabix doesn't come from Weetabix farm.

The J Stands for Jay

"President Tim Cullinan said it’s time to call retailers out.

“They are using their own brands to drive down the prices they pay to their suppliers,” he added."

What's the plan here? Have Aldi and Lidl stop selling milk? Does he not realise that 99% of products in these shops are their own brands?

whelan2

You'd have to wonder do these lads ever do a weekly shopping

Geuze

lanod2407 wrote: »

For what it's worth, I would support the idea that shops should not be allowed to brand food with dairies, farms, etc that simply don't exist. There's gotta be a line drawn somewhere and selling with a make-up dairy name is surely crossing a consumer misinformation line.

Loads of products are private-label, own-brand.

Weetabix might be the maker of DS / Tesco / ALDI own-brand wheat biscuits.

Surely any seller is allowed use an own-brand label?

An example is Homestead.

I don't see ALDI or Lidl claiming anywhere that Clonbawn is an actual factory.

Surely there can be a distinction between a plant/factory and a brand?


Donegal Catch is a brand. As far as I know, it may well not come from Donegal, the fish could be caught anywhere, and processed anywhere.

Geuze

Surely if IFA milk suppliers have a problem with liquid milk prices, they should direct their ire at the processor?

They sell their milk to the processor, not to retailers.

Geuze

youllbemine wrote: »

I was told tonight that "everyone knows strathroy mix irish milk with milk from the uk and then sell it back to the ROI in the form of Aldi/Lidl Coolree creamery" etc. I find it hard to believe this is the case but again stand to be corrected.

Surely the contract between the supermarket and the supplier would prevent this?

If a supplier to a major supermarket is doing this, without the supermarket knowing, and against contract, that is a big risk.

Geuze

youllbemine wrote: »

Can anyone give me a reliable source that says where milk that is sold in various supermarkets is sourced? So who the coop is and the location of the farmers who supply that milk (ireland or UK or europe etc) for own brand Tesco, aldi, lidl, dunnes, avonmore, town of monaghan etc.

I buy 1L cartons in Lidl.

The brand is Clonbawn, I think.

Aurivo is the supplier, with the name and address of the plant listed on the carton: Killygordon, Co. Donegal.

K.G.

McGaggs wrote: »

"President Tim Cullinan said it’s time to call retailers out.

“They are using their own brands to drive down the prices they pay to their suppliers,” he added."

What's the plan here? Have Aldi and Lidl stop selling milk? Does he not realise that 99% of products in these shops are their own brands?

But the central point remains ,avonmore or any ndc label milk dont pay the farmers more than lidl!aldi processor s more have they ever nor will they ever.so why target them.open to correction on this but did lidl or aldi side with beef plan during the blockades

mahoney_j

tanko wrote: »

Exactly, "the consumer" couldn't give a damn what it says on the milk carton as long as its dirt cheap.

That’s 💯 correct vast majority of customers couldn’t care less about the name on a carton ,ifa made a balls up here and could end up costing them ,it’s a direct attack on Arrabawn ,aurivo ,strathroy Irish milk suppliers .Lidl Aldi etc put these contracts to tender and Irish coops will tear strips off one another to get volume ,and the fall guy is the liquid supplier as he/she will ultimately carry the cost of that .an extremely poorly thought out set of adds

mahoney_j

McGaggs wrote: »

"President Tim Cullinan said it’s time to call retailers out.

“They are using their own brands to drive down the prices they pay to their suppliers,” he added."

What's the plan here? Have Aldi and Lidl stop selling milk? Does he not realise that 99% of products in these shops are their own brands?

I’ve good time for cullinane but this is bull**** ,coops tender for these contracts ,they undercut one another to get volume go after the coops in the liquid market I’d bet outside of strathroy the margin if any on liquid is pittance and yet they still quote lower to get more volume

The J Stands for Jay

mahoney_j wrote: »

That’s 💯 correct vast majority of customers couldn’t care less about the name on a carton ,

Anyone who cares about the name on the carton isn't shopping in Aldi or Lidl. Everyone knows they just sell their own brands.

Tombo2001

80sDiesel wrote: »

I would agree. Next it will be Mc Murphys’ beef burgers or o'shaughnessy shaughnessys’ chicken nuggets.

It’s a slippery slope so if you don’t nip it in the bud it can’t be stopped.

McDonalds Happy Meals even....

Incidentally - I think this matters a lot more with products like Eggs.

Milk is milk, its a very generic product.

Eggs would be a bit different - there would be a big perceived difference between battery hens and hens on a 'family farm'.

twin_beacon

From what I can see here, this will not actually end up in court. If ALDI/LIDL bring a case against the IFA (which they have every right to in my eyes), it will be settled out of court, as the IFA don't have a leg to stand on.

The picture inserted into the news papers by the FIA claim that the ALDI/LIDL are misleading their customers, however, the same can be said about the IFA's picture. At the bottom it says, "TO BE SURE YOUR MILK IS FROM THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND LOOK FOR THE NDC LOGO". They are implying that they are not selling Irish milk, which they are. I can only speak for ALDI, but they have the NDC logo on their milk cartons.

Of course this is all over money, and wanting a bigger share of the pie. Dairy is booming at the moment, and is profitable. Beef is on its knees, why aren't the IFA fighting for better prices for beef?

laoch na mona

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Eggs would be a bit different - there would be a big perceived difference between battery hens and hens on a 'family farm'.

The only difference in eggs is caged hens, free range, or organic


A 'family farm thats eggs don't state cage free, free range, etc is selling battery eggs

timple23

twin_beacon wrote: »

"TO BE SURE YOUR MILK IS FROM THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND LOOK FOR THE NDC LOGO". They are implying that they are not selling Irish milk, which they are.

IMO the only libellous part of the advertisement was the "Fact, their branding strategy is designed to drive down the price paid to dairy farmers"
The IFA have to prove how the branding is designed to reduce prices paid to dairy farmers. Lidl and Aldi don't pay dairy farmers, processors do.

The IFA are well entitled to say to people to make sure your milk is from Rep of Ireland, and carries the NDC logo.

They are not saying that the milk is from Ireland but they are not not saying its from Ireland.

About the branding, they are entitled to say it is misleading, as being misleading is open to interpretation.

I have no legal background and am not involved with the IFA.

alps

K.G. wrote: »

But the central point remains ,avonmore or any ndc label milk dont pay the farmers more than lidl!aldi processor s more have they ever nor will they ever

Oh but maybe they do...average out the price paid by Strathroy to both Northern and Southern suppliers, and while you're doing that, consider the purchase of milk from Wexford as the licence to sell into the Republic..

And while you're at that, consider that a massive amount of Strathroy milk is carried from Wexford into North Cork Coop for processing...

alps

Prices for last 12 months..

K.G.

alps wrote: »

Prices for last 12 months..

Where's that info from.is that for 365 day supply.why are these lads supplying stratroy if glanbia pays better.