The Jim Cornette Meltdown Thread

The White Wolf · 16-03-2021 3:52pm #1

So Jim has continued his tirade at Miro and friends and will be covered further in his podcast today:

“Aww, f*** it. This’ll be too good to pass up. Somebody tell noted video game nerd and Popeye villain wannabe @ToBeMiro that I’m not gonna waste THIS tongue-lashing in pieces on Twitter, it’ll come this Tuesday on the Drive-Thru podcast–and it will be glorious. Don’t tell Penelope.”

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2021/03/jim-cornette-calls-miro-a-great-value-brand-ryback-comments-further-about-penelope-ford/?fbclid=IwAR2IEHM5_miyF9Dg-AvLt8eu-eF7T46WBgiaw9MOKxIOkWnm-rFXyGDr2GM

The reason I quoted this specific section is because it says everything you need to know about what Cornette's up to and why ignoring the clown is the best course of action.

For any future Cornette related tirades please feel free to post here.

savemejebus · 16-03-2021 5:33pm

Shouldn't this thread be renamed 'the Jim Cornette "crazy ****e this week" thread' or else the 'Miro meltdown thread'?

At the end of the day Miro is the one that acted out of character. Jimbo is just being his usual jerky self. What he's saying about Miro and Penelope is nothing compared to the usual abuse he doles out to AEW folk.

hynesie08 · 16-03-2021 11:58pm

52 minutes on Miro........ I have opened a beer.

J. Marston · 17-03-2021 12:53am

Even if it's reasonable to think, I wouldn't give him the satisfaction that Sabian did by saying he wishes he was dead. Cornette probably rubbed his hands in delight hearing that, he's that petty.

17-03-2021 1:03am

hynesie08 wrote: »

52 minutes on Miro........ I have opened a beer.

It's eh, uneven. :pac: Brian's interjections were good.

hynesie08 · 17-03-2021 1:06am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's eh, uneven. :pac: Brian's interjections were good.

Just finished it, he definitely draws out the rant but of course the miriam thing will catch on.

The Brian last bit was fantastic, yes he's probably as guilty of hypocrisy as the rest of them, but I loved it.

Mr.Nice Guy · 17-03-2021 3:21am

Love me some Jim Cornette. The best thing left in modern wrestling, and the only guy that can get real heat these days. I also love the fact that he's the best living legendary manager, so his words carry weight despite the 'He's irrelevant' mob.

I loved him skewering the exploding ring Tony Khan's wet fart, and his rant towards Miro was quality too. Brian Last deserves a mention also as his knowledge is extraordinary, and his laughter when he cracks up is hysterical. Best podcast going for its mix of common sense, insight and entertainment.

nazmoalex · 17-03-2021 4:03am

Straight off the bat, Cornette gives the best advice, if someone p!sses you off on twitter, block them.
I enjoy his little rants from time to time, not every week mind. He's not to everyone's taste, but he is entertaining.
Cornette got a buzz out of getting all the heat, that's his deal. The more the wrestlers react to his rants, the more relevant he becomes, or stays.
However skewed or baseless his views are, he's still entertaining.

LineOfBeauty · 17-03-2021 1:44pm

Only comment I'll make on this.

But if you like old school, detailed wrestling breakdowns that isn't from someone just s***ing on modern wrestling or whose entire thing is just one big grift then Lance Storm is your guy. Tries to bring guys up rather than tearing them down.

Ohmeha · 18-03-2021 9:25pm

I thought it was one of Cornette's better rants in a while before it dragged on way too long

jface187 · 21-03-2021 9:30pm

I listen to Cornette clips on Youtube on the subjects I find Jim's to have knowledge on. Like his time working in the WWE and wrestling past.

I avoid any of the AEW talks. You don't like the show we get it and his attempts at being witty, lame. "Kenny Twinkle" toes wow, Kenny must cry himself to sleep at night after that.

I listen to a bit of the Miro stuff as I found him talking about Ryback funny and this would be something like that.

I turned it off after 15 minutes when Jim started off on his Penelope Ford jokes.
It felt so sad and outdated him calling her a Sl*t. I mean so pathetic that he thinks the way to get at a woman is to call her that and then did all these old lame sl*ts jokes which around when I was a kid twenty years ago.

Put me off the show a bit.

The White Wolf · 22-03-2021 9:36pm

jface187 wrote: »

I listen to Cornette clips on Youtube on the subjects I find Jim's to have knowledge on. Like his time working in the WWE and wrestling past.

I avoid any of the AEW talks. You don't like the show we get it and his attempts at being witty, lame. "Kenny Twinkle" toes wow, Kenny must cry himself to sleep at night after that.

I listen to a bit of the Miro stuff as I found him talking about Ryback funny and this would be something like that.

I turned it off after 15 minutes when Jim started off on his Penelope Ford jokes.
It felt so sad and outdated him calling her a Sl*t. I mean so pathetic that he thinks the way to get at a woman is to call her that and then did all these old lame sl*ts jokes which around when I was a kid twenty years ago.

Put me off the show a bit.

I could be wrong now but in the video I was watching where Cornette explained himself, I think his defence was "I was referring to her gimmick" as opposed to literally calling her that name.

He gave examples of how AEW played upon her break up with Janela and the wedding dress she was wearing during the segment. I'm not saying Cornette is correct but I'd be curious if someone could explain Ford's gimmick different to Cornette's interpretation.

Using Scarlett in NXT as a comparison, I could actually explain what her gimmick is. I couldn't tell you Ford's, and maybe that's why Cornette is using it as a handy "out".

jface187 · 25-03-2021 10:05pm

Yeah at first he was talking about her "gimmick" in AEW, but when Ford called him out he went into the S*ut shaming stuff, at least that's the way it came off to me.

In terms of her gimmick in AEW, I don't really know. She is Kip real-life and on-screen girlfriend and that seems to be it.

savemejebus · 25-03-2021 10:17pm

jface187 wrote: »

Yeah at first he was talking about her "gimmick" in AEW, but when Ford called him out he went into the S*ut shaming stuff, at least that's the way it came off to me.

In terms of her gimmick in AEW, I don't really know. She is Kip real-life and on-screen girlfriend and that seems to be it.

To be fair, he went full on into insulting her only after she slut shamed his wife to try to get at him.

jface187 · 25-03-2021 10:25pm

Yeah, it's a fair point. I just find Jim trying to be funny so out of touch and lame on these type of things.

The White Wolf · 25-03-2021 10:40pm

He doesn't seem to be able to take a moment to consider what he's saying. Often I've found he would say something which he knew was ****ed up, as there would be a brief pause or awkward silence before he'd carry on with the rant rather than admitting he stepped over the line and apologize.

Brian Last at least tries to hold him to account at times and pull him up.

26-03-2021 3:23am

There's no doubt he dramatises his opinions but I've honestly never really listened to him and thought "He's just made that up for the sake of being controversial."

I think his opinions on wrestlers are sincere. I don't think he picks on wrestlers for the sake of it. I mean, Darby Allin is ripe for being picked on. When Cornette first saw him he thought he was just a feckless skateboarder but he has come around to liking him.

He loved MJF a year ago but has since started to sour on him.

Not too long ago he was actually making excuses for Cody but recently admitted that he's starting to see The Great Brian Last's side of things regarding him.

He liked Britt Baker and wanted her pushed, and to be the face of the women's division, long before everyone else but soured on her when she was involved in that horsesh*t Tooth and Nail fiasco.

The White Wolf wrote: »

He doesn't seem to be able to take a moment to consider what he's saying. Often I've found he would say something which he knew was ****ed up, as there would be a brief pause or awkward silence before he'd carry on with the rant rather than admitting he stepped over the line and apologize.

Brian Last at least tries to hold him to account at times and pull him up.

This is definitely one of his major faults.

Sirsok · 26-03-2021 11:26am

His take on the Bliss and Orton match featuring swamp fire boy was quite good and I find myself agreeing with it.

sirmanga · 26-03-2021 2:23pm

Jim Cornette should not be taken seriously. He carries on like he has all these strong convictions but he's a complete hypocrite.

He disowns anyone who is a Republican/Conservative or Trump voter. Such as Jericho and Davey Boy Jr.

But then he licks the hole off Stone Cold who is a big 2A guy, along with Undertaker. And Cornette is buddy buddy with JBL. Figure that out?

And while I agree with Cornette that the Fiend stuff and AEW in general is a complete embarrassment, if you look through some of the things Cornette booked in his career, he's in no position to throw stones.

Also, Cornette is a slob. He constantly waddles around dressed in tracky bottoms and a t shirt with his own face on it, and then makes comments about how others look.

LineOfBeauty · 26-03-2021 5:55pm

sirmanga wrote: »

Jim Cornette should not be taken seriously. He carries on like he has all these strong convictions but he's a complete hypocrite.

He disowns anyone who is a Republican/Conservative or Trump voter. Such as Jericho and Davey Boy Jr.

But then he licks the hole off Stone Cold who is a big 2A guy, along with Undertaker. And Cornette is buddy buddy with JBL. Figure that out?

And while I agree with Cornette that the Fiend stuff and AEW in general is a complete embarrassment, if you look through some of the things Cornette booked in his career, he's in no position to throw stones.

Also, Cornette is a slob. He constantly waddles around dressed in tracky bottoms and a t shirt with his own face on it, and then makes comments about how others look.

Definitely interested to hear how AEW is an embarrassment..

sirmanga · 26-03-2021 8:12pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Definitely interested to hear how AEW is an embarrassment..

AEW is a ludicrous, goofball, no-sell clown show.

LineOfBeauty · 26-03-2021 10:18pm

sirmanga wrote: »

AEW is a ludicrous, goofball, no-sell clown show.

I actually don't even know where to start with this.

Ludicrous - if you can find me a more cohesively booked, fan rewarding company on this planet not named Dragon Gate then please tell me what it is so I can add it into my rotation because, right now, I don't know what it is.

Goofball - Coincidentally, if you can point me to any mainstream company or territory in the literal entire history of documented pro wrestling that isn't RINGS or Pancrase that doesn't have comedy please point it out to me. All wrestling, literally ever, has elements of comedy in it. Once the comedy doesn't inhibit the main event scene you're fine. And when it comes to telling serious stories where it matters, few do it as well today as AEW.

No Sell - one of those dumb Cornette lines his followers wheel out. People who do not watch pro wrestling. If you tell me you don't like modern pro wrestling then OK, that I can't argue with. But if you're telling me that the top guys in AEW can't or won't sell then I'm sorry, your opinion on modern wrestling is invalidated. In a company with Omega and The Young Bucks, I'd easily say among the top 10 sellers on the planet, and guys with Jungle Boy, Darby Allin who are tremendous sellers. That's a straight up no.

Clown show - A company that not only pays homage to old territory stories, and infuses them with a modern ring style, but also one where the odd time they've stepped beyond the realms of what pro wrestling should be, they've stepped back on it.

So no, anyone with any semblance of knowledge of pro wrestling history and who has watched modern pro wrestling can see that take is off.

sirmanga · 26-03-2021 11:54pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I actually don't even know where to start with this.

Ludicrous - if you can find me a more cohesively booked, fan rewarding company on this planet not named Dragon Gate then please tell me what it is so I can add it into my rotation because, right now, I don't know what it is.

Goofball - Coincidentally, if you can point me to any mainstream company or territory in the literal entire history of documented pro wrestling that isn't RINGS or Pancrase that doesn't have comedy please point it out to me. All wrestling, literally ever, has elements of comedy in it. Once the comedy doesn't inhibit the main event scene you're fine. And when it comes to telling serious stories where it matters, few do it as well today as AEW.

No Sell - one of those dumb Cornette lines his followers wheel out. People who do not watch pro wrestling. If you tell me you don't like modern pro wrestling then OK, that I can't argue with. But if you're telling me that the top guys in AEW can't or won't sell then I'm sorry, your opinion on modern wrestling is invalidated. In a company with Omega and The Young Bucks, I'd easily say among the top 10 sellers on the planet, and guys with Jungle Boy, Darby Allin who are tremendous sellers. That's a straight up no.

Clown show - A company that not only pays homage to old territory stories, and infuses them with a modern ring style, but also one where the odd time they've stepped beyond the realms of what pro wrestling should be, they've stepped back on it.

So no, anyone with any semblance of knowledge of pro wrestling history and who has watched modern pro wrestling can see that take is off.

This is the last I'll say on this because it isn't an AEW thread. I've stopped commenting on that thread because it's a waste of time.

But, I'm afraid I gave up reading when you were talking about selling and gave the Bucks as an example.

AEW deserves nothing but condemnation from serious wrestling fans. It brought in someone like Miro and made him a joke. And the best sell job I've seen in their short history was, ironically, Kingston's dead sell from the pussy fart pyro. That pretty much sums up AEW.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 12:17am

sirmanga wrote: »

This is the last I'll say on this because it isn't an AEW thread. I've stopped commenting on that thread because it's a waste of time.

But, I'm afraid I gave up reading when you were talking about selling and gave the Bucks as an example.

AEW deserves nothing but condemnation from serious wrestling fans. It brought in someone like Miro and made him a joke. And the best sell job I've seen in their short history was, ironically, Kingston's dead sell from the pussy fart pyro. That pretty much sums up AEW.

This ties into the Cornette people stuff so I'm gonna continue.

Name me like 5 acts in current pro wrestling who are better sellers than The Young Bucks (who, aside from being the most dynamic tag team of their generation are, by a distance, the babyface in peril/hot tag, team I've seen in real time in my lifetime.

While I'm here, what serious wrestling do you watch btw?

J. Marston · 27-03-2021 12:27am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

No Sell - one of those dumb Cornette lines his followers wheel out. People who do not watch pro wrestling. If you tell me you don't like modern pro wrestling then OK, that I can't argue with. But if you're telling me that the top guys in AEW can't or won't sell then I'm sorry, your opinion on modern wrestling is invalidated. In a company with Omega and The Young Bucks, I'd easily say among the top 10 sellers on the planet, and guys with Jungle Boy, Darby Allin who are tremendous sellers. That's a straight up no.

https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1367283114951790592

Screen-Shot-2021-03-11-at-12.40.12-AM-1200x628.jpg

And that's just the last few weeks from two of the top guys. Selling in AEW is clearly extremely inconsistent.

sirmanga · 27-03-2021 12:29am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

While I'm here, what serious wrestling do you watch btw?

I'm no great WWE mark, but AEW haven't even reached 1 millionth of the seriousness and drama that the Roman Reigns heel character has given us. Watching his work and anything in AEW is like night and day.

Everything with Reigns hasn't been perfect but it's been done well often enough that I can buy it. Reigns is a serious professional, to quote Bret Hart. AEW comes across like cliquey, in joke laden student film in comparison.

Anyway, that's all I'll say on that. Back to Cornette. (Who I think is a real phoney BTW)

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 12:37am

sirmanga wrote: »

I'm no great WWE mark, but AEW haven't even reached 1 millionth of the seriousness and drama that the Roman Reigns heel character has given us. Watching his work and anything in AEW is like night and day.

Everything with Reigns hasn't been perfect but it's been done well often enough that I can buy it. Reigns is a serious professional, to quote Bret Hart. AEW comes across like cliquey, in joke laden student film in comparison.

Anyway, that's all I'll say on that. Back to Cornette. (Who I think is a real phoney BTW)

Seriously, WWE? I was legit expecting to enter into a debate about the seriousness of the top of the card stuff in NOAH in comparison to AEW but you've given me WWE as your example of the serious promotion?? Nah dude, I'm out.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 12:44am

J. Marston wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1367283114951790592

And that's just the last few weeks from two of the top guys. Selling in AEW is clearly extremely inconsistent.

It's called a flash pin dude. Common finish you'll see in literally every wrestling company on earth, sometimes multiple times on the same card.

Speaking of inconsistencies with selling, by your logic Canadian Destroyer as a transitional move (which, btw, it's been that in pro wrestling for close to 10 years now) = nah AEW guys can't sell. Randy Orton puking up oil and a guy who throws fire and makes lights fall from the ceiling = I see nothing wrong here...

See Marston, this is where we differ. I'm consistent across the 10,000 wrestling companies I watch, and you are not across whatever it is you watch and see in gifs.

J. Marston · 27-03-2021 1:15am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It's called a flash pin dude. Common finish you'll see in literally every wrestling company on earth, sometimes multiple times on the same card.

Speaking of inconsistencies with selling, by your logic Canadian Destroyer as a transitional move (which, btw, it's been that in pro wrestling for close to 10 years now) = nah AEW guys can't sell. Randy Orton puking up oil and a guy who throws fire and makes lights fall from the ceiling = I see nothing wrong here...

See Marston, this is where we differ. I'm consistent across the 10,000 wrestling companies I watch, and you are not across whatever it is you watch and see in gifs.

What inconsistency? I'm pretty sure I called the Orton/Bliss/Fiend stuff "pure wrestlecrap".

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 1:17am

J. Marston wrote: »

What inconsistency? I'm pretty sure I called the Orton/Bliss/Fiend stuff "pure wrestlecrap".

So AEW do a flash pin and you're having a go at the whole company.

WWE do their wrestlecrap and yet I don't think I've seen you paint the whole company with a brush because of it.

That's called inconsistency dude.

J. Marston · 27-03-2021 1:23am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

So AEW do a flash pin and you're having a go at the whole company.

WWE do their wrestlecrap and yet I don't think I've seen you paint the whole company with a brush because of it.

That's called inconsistency dude.

Sorry, are Drew and Bobby spitting up black goo? Is Roman prancing about pigtails? Nah. How can that nonsense be compared to other solid stuff?

AEW's rocky relationship with selling is ever-present.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 1:27am

J. Marston wrote: »

Sorry, are Drew and Bobby spitting up black goo? Is Roman prancing about pigtails? Nah. How can that nonsense be compared to other solid stuff?

AEW's rocky relationship with selling is ever-present.

Doesn't matter. Either you paint in broad brush strokes or you don't.

Legit when people parrot that Cornette take I first wonder if those people know what selling is and then I wonder if the only type of wrestling they've ever been exposed to is WWE, which if anyone bothered to gif their weekly shows you'll find numerous examples of what you'd consider bad selling.

Sirsok · 27-03-2021 1:28am

Selling across the board is inconsistent in both companies I feel.

That's why when someone like Pete Dunne has a match it comes across really well.

Doesn't feel like he is just linking moves. Feels like everything that happens in the match had an impact on him.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 1:34am

Anyway before I end up in an inane selling debate and break this Jim Cornette thread, I'll say this. There's so many more ways to sell than just what you see in WWE, and in the good companies you'll see different styles on the same show. Best example I can think is Hiroshi Tanahashi and Shingo Takagi within a week of each other. Tanahashi sells beautifully against White at Korakuen, plays a face fighting from underneath in the most classic manner imaginable. Shingo Takagi, a completely different type of wrestler plays the same role basically in his match with Okada. Watch them both, it's essentially the same role they're playing in their matches, they play it in two completely different ways, both to tremendous effect. Point is, if you view wrestling through the prism of "this is the right way, everything else is wrong" you miss out on so much more of what pro wrestling is.

RollieFingers · 27-03-2021 10:31am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Anyway before I end up in an inane selling debate and break this Jim Cornette thread, I'll say this. There's so many more ways to sell than just what you see in WWE, and in the good companies you'll see different styles on the same show. Best example I can think is Hiroshi Tanahashi and Shingo Takagi within a week of each other. Tanahashi sells beautifully against White at Korakuen, plays a face fighting from underneath in the most classic manner imaginable. Shingo Takagi, a completely different type of wrestler plays the same role basically in his match with Okada. Watch them both, it's essentially the same role they're playing in their matches, they play it in two completely different ways, both to tremendous effect. Point is, if you view wrestling through the prism of "this is the right way, everything else is wrong" you miss out on so much more of what pro wrestling is.

I genuinely think some fans have only ever watched WWE and are pre-conditioned to think their sports entertainment style is the only style of wrestling, even though it's more of an entertainment show than a pro-wrestling programme.

Like when there was a few time limit draws in AEW and people were like oh they do bs finishes too. They couldn't see that a draw is a legit outcome through their WWE lens.

riffmongous · 27-03-2021 10:50am

J. Marston wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1367283114951790592

And that's just the last few weeks from two of the top guys. Selling in AEW is clearly extremely inconsistent.

God I despise Cody at this stage, if you described those two gifs to someone they'd think you were talking about the worst of the indys

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 10:58am

RollieFingers wrote: »

I genuinely think some fans have only ever watched WWE and are pre-conditioned to think their sports entertainment style is the only style of wrestling, even though it's more of an entertainment show than a pro-wrestling programme.

Like when there was a few time limit draws in AEW and people were like oh they do bs finishes too. They couldn't see that a draw is a legit outcome through their WWE lens.

Exactly and then they throw opinions at you about selling or the tone of a company that they either don't watch or have no point of reference for. It's a time sink.

27-03-2021 11:11am

RollieFingers wrote: »

I genuinely think some fans have only ever watched WWE and are pre-conditioned to think their sports entertainment style is the only style of wrestling, even though it's more of an entertainment show than a pro-wrestling programme.

Like when there was a few time limit draws in AEW and people were like oh they do bs finishes too. They couldn't see that a draw is a legit outcome through their WWE lens.

I hope you're not implying that AEW is a pro-wrestling show...

Sirsok · 27-03-2021 11:22am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Exactly and then they throw opinions at you about selling or the tone of a company that they either don't watch or have no point of reference for. It's a time sink.

I think one could look at Gallows and Anderson getting cracked with a barb wire baseball bat and sell the damage for a few seconds and not have to have seen a super J Cup to realise its probably not good selling.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 11:35am

Sirsok wrote: »

I think one could look at Gallows and Anderson getting cracked with a barb wire baseball bat and sell the damage for a few seconds and not have to have seen a super J Cup to realise its probably not good selling.

Equally one might say Randy Orton blocking fire as though he's shooing away a dropkick isn't great either. And if you were to be that picky, there's several examples just like that one in the Drew/Sheamus match from Fastlane.

And if you haven't seen a Super J Cup then you should, they're great.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 11:36am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I hope you're not implying that AEW is a pro-wrestling show...

This will devolve into an MLW debate, watch out.

Sirsok · 27-03-2021 11:48am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Equally one might say Randy Orton blocking fire as though he's shooing away a dropkick isn't great either. And if you were to be that picky, there's several examples just like that one in the Drew/Sheamus match from Fastlane.

And if you haven't seen a Super J Cup then you should, they're great.

I think The Fiend stuff is completely reprehensible by the way. As I said I believe selling across both AEW and WWE is pretty inconsistent.

Owens Apron power bomb wa initially sold as devastating , however now its a nothing move. Ortons punt kick the same.

I don't think it's helpful to devalue someone's opinion on current American wrestling shows because they don't watch Japanesse wrestling.

I could just devalue others opinion because they have never performed in a wrestling ring by saying "oh well you have never been in the ring so what do you know"

Fair play for watching as much wrestling as you do, but that doesn't delegitimised my or anybody else's view of mainstream American wrestling.

I gave away all my VHS tapes but kept my 94 Super J Cup unfortunate considering I can't watch Benoit matches anymore

27-03-2021 11:54am

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

This will devolve into an MLW debate, watch out.

I've never had a single, solitary, MLW debate.

Unlike you with AEW, I don't take it as an affront if people don't watch/enjoy MLW.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 12:04pm

Sirsok wrote: »

I think The Fiend stuff is completely reprehensible by the way. As I said I believe selling across both AEW and WWE is pretty inconsistent.

Owens Apron power bomb wa initially sold as devastating , however now its a nothing move. Ortons punt kick the same.

I don't think it's helpful to devalue someone's opinion on current American wrestling shows because they don't watch Japanesse wrestling.

I could just devalue others opinion because they have never performed in a wrestling ring by saying "oh well you have never been in the ring so what do you know"

Fair play for watching as much wrestling as you do, but that doesn't delegitimised my or anybody else's view of mainstream American wrestling.

I gave away all my VHS tapes but kept my 94 Super J Cup unfortunate considering I can't watch Benoit matches anymore

I can't remember turning anything into a debate about Japanese wrestling. I watch more American wrestling than just AEW and WWE you know.

My point was if you view aspects of ring work (in this case selling) through the prism of having only watched WWE then of course other styles and methods will look weird (or wrong). I gave 2 examples of excellent selling I've watched recently (they happen to be Japanese) but at no stage is this a "oh you don't watch Japanese wrestling you don't know what selling is" conversation.

And to be very honest I've very little problems with the selling in either company. At times I think it can be very good and there's examples of excellent sellers in both companies.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 12:05pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've never had a single, solitary, MLW debate.

Unlike you with AEW, I don't take it as an affront if people don't watch/enjoy MLW.

Must re-emphasise, I don't take it as a affront if you criticise AEW. But if you call it ****e then I'll probably ask why you think that. If you don't watch Dragon Gate, that I take as an affront.

Sirsok · 27-03-2021 1:08pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I can't remember turning anything into a debate about Japanese wrestling. I watch more American wrestling than just AEW and WWE you know.

My point was if you view aspects of ring work (in this case selling) through the prism of having only watched WWE then of course other styles and methods will look weird (or wrong). I gave 2 examples of excellent selling I've watched recently (they happen to be Japanese) but at no stage is this a "oh you don't watch Japanese wrestling you don't know what selling is" conversation.

And to be very honest I've very little problems with the selling in either company. At times I think it can be very good and there's examples of excellent sellers in both companies.

I'm sure you watch all types of wrestling LOB, I'm not questioning that. I'm also not suggesting you are turning it into a Japennese wrestling debate.

What I am saying yourself and Rollie seem to be devaluing peoples opinion because they view Wrestling thru a "WWE Lense". That statement is even skewed as if you have been a WWE fan for the last 30 years the style has changed.

Wrestling at its very core though has fundamentals. One of them to me would be selling. Regardless of what preconceived notion you have of wrestling, selling is essential. When inconsistencies in selling occur throughout throughout show or match , for me , that tends to devalue the whole experience.

Lio Rush Canadian destroyer off a ladder thru a table for example, nonsense to me.

Kenny Omega collapsing from exhaustion before Okada hits the Rainmaker,perfection.

Moxley and Omega selling the barb wire.
Good brothers get slapped with barb wire bats and are fine.....same match.

LineOfBeauty · 27-03-2021 1:23pm

Sirsok wrote: »

I'm sure you watch all types of wrestling LOB, I'm not questioning that. I'm also not suggesting you are turning it into a Japennese wrestling debate.

What I am saying yourself and Rollie seem to be devaluing peoples opinion because they view Wrestling thru a "WWE Lense". That statement is even skewed as if you have been a WWE fan for the last 30 years the style has changed.

Wrestling at its very core though has fundamentals. One of them to me would be selling. Regardless of what preconceived notion you have of wrestling, selling is essential. When inconsistencies in selling occur throughout throughout show or match , for me , that tends to devalue the whole experience.

Lio Rush Canadian destroyer off a ladder thru a table for example, nonsense to me.

Kenny Omega collapsing from exhaustion before Okada hits the Rainmaker,perfection.

Moxley and Omega selling the barb wire.
Good brothers get slapped with barb wire bats and are fine.....same match.

On the 2nd paragraph I'm not trying to devalue anyone's opinions, if you've watched 30 years of WWE then I can't devalue your opinion realistically and I wouldn't try to. And I agree the ring style has gradually shifted, though I'd argue that inherently what you'll see on a Raw from 1997 (using that as the example because I'm currently watching those) is largely the same with regards to the core structures of matches and what they look for in their wrestlers. Obviously current WWE will have a more modern twist to it.

My point is simply if you're someone whose only ever watched WWE and you see, for example a run of the mill no sell spot off a suplex and a double down, you might think "nah, that's crap" but to someone whose watched that style of wrestling will understand that it's simply a different way of selling to get the overall story across. Just simple things like that don't translate well if the only point of reference a fan may have is WWE.

I agree that Rush spot was dirt. And I agree that Omega/Okada spot is a great moment. Some people get very hung up on selling. God forbid there's a match involving limb work because the discourse after it centers solely on the selling of the limb, my view has always been if I don't notice bad selling then it's not bad selling and if the story of the match has come across well by the bell then the wrestlers have done a good job. Literally to me it's that simple. The barbed wire bat spot I swear I didn't even notice until I saw a gif of it afterwards. Fair enough, probably a bad sell in the context of what had gone on previously in the Mox/Omega match. But unfortunately I think AEW has been ripe for what I'd consider hyper sensitive criticism because, whether people want to admit it or not, there's a section of wrestling fans who want it to fail, plain and simple.

montyrebel · 28-03-2021 12:23pm

and blocked by wee Jim, all i said in response to a tweet yesterday was "just like your wife, she loves being touched by wrestlers i have heard" in response to this tweet, https://twitter.com/TheJimCornette/status/1375842681520275461

savemejebus · 28-03-2021 12:25pm

montyrebel wrote: »

and blocked by wee Jim, all i said in response to a tweet yesterday was "just like your wife, she loves being touched by wrestlers i have heard"

are you surprised? That's a pretty nasty tweet, not something to be proud of.

montyrebel · 28-03-2021 12:26pm

thats funny

28-03-2021 1:12pm

montyrebel wrote: »

and blocked by wee Jim, all i said in response to a tweet yesterday was "just like your wife, she loves being touched by wrestlers i have heard" in response to this tweet

This is everything that is wrong with the world today. Would you say that to his face, No you wouldn't because he would slap the **** out of you. A hard man behind the keyboard aren't you. There is nothing funny about it that is just a nasty post that say what kinds of person you really are.

The Jim Cornette Meltdown Thread

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