Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

1…209210212214215…328

Comments

  • #6332
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Larger population than Ireland. Have land borders and higher population density too. And they did better than us because they acted independently and aggressively. Ireland are followers - waiting for others to act first - waiting for instruction from the EU. Terrified of being held accountable for anything.

    Also:
    Why are so many people/governments always terrified in some worldviews?


  • #6333
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    silverharp wrote: »
    whats Ireland up to that they arent on par with Denmark?

    https://twitter.com/alankellylabour/status/1374390324257116165

    We won't be that far behind them to be honest. Almost all adults who want the vaccine should have first dose by end of June or early July at least. Taking that, we'd be close to having all over 50s with first dose by end of May too.


  • #6334
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    Israel signed up to be guinea pigs and are small population wise compared to Europe

    US have a massive industrial complex and a federal system that can focus on tasks like that, public health is not an Eu competence as we never gave Eu such power (as we are afraid of becoming an USA type entity) eurosceptics want to have it both ways

    Uk got ahead by being reckless as they don’t care if hundreds of thousands die (highest death rate in Europe) and by shafting their neighbours

    Please stop with simplistic slogans and whataboutisms, this ain’t the daily mail comments section “mate”

    So you are saying there is supply but the EC messed up?

    Unlike daily mail readers I am very Pro-EU... The EUs failings here are because of the people involved in running the block not because of the blocks existence. There is no reason the EU can't be doing more like deals with manufacturers in exchange for supply such as what Israel did with Pfizer


  • #6335
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »
    We are on course to finish sooner than a lot of EU countries. This craic lately of people picking out exceptionalist examples and using it as a stick to beat the government with is very odd. Thin gruel.

    Is the plan still to have 70% vaccinated with 1st dose by the end of June? If that becomes true that is fantastic and would silence any of the governments critics, me included!

    If I can't criticise the govt I'd have to do something more productive like going to a pub or something


  • #6336
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    So you are saying there is supply but the EC messed up?

    Unlike daily mail readers I am very Pro-EU... The EUs failings here are because of the people involved in running the block not because of the blocks existence. There is no reason the EU can't be doing more like deals with manufacturers in exchange for supply such as what Israel did with Pfizer
    The EU has spread its supplies over a range of vaccines. Sanofi was one of them so when that failed they were already under pressure. There may be questions about the AZ contract but AZ have persistently failed to deliver on any of it. The Israel deal is easy for Pfizer to do, but scale completely rules out the EU for anything similar.


  • Advertisement
  • #6337
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,787 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    If Denmark have the supply, so will we.


  • #6338
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    So you are saying there is supply but the EC messed up?

    Unlike daily mail readers I am very Pro-EU... The EUs failings here are because of the people involved in running the block not because of the blocks existence. There is no reason the EU can't be doing more like deals with manufacturers in exchange for supply such as what Israel did with Pfizer

    The deal that Israel did with Pfizer was a one off. Pfizer wanted to roll it out somewhere as proof of concept and Israel took a risk literally betting everything on Pfizer. Once Pfizer got Israel on board, they were never offering that deal to anyone else and certainly not a customer the size of the EU (Pfizer are a big player but know their limitations, unlike AZ). It would have also been mad for the EU to rely on Pfizer to that extent, aren't you always telling us we should be buying Sputnik yet at the same time you seem to think we should have gone all in on Pfizer?


  • #6339
    Godot.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Godot.


    Denmark went very big on Johnson & Johnson. They ordered over 8 million doses. At least Ireland didn't overload on AZ like some of the Eastern EU countries.


  • #6340
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    aren't you always telling us we should be buying Sputnik yet at the same time you seem to think we should have gone all in on Pfizer?

    For clarity, any vaccine that the EU can do a deal on, be it the Pfizer/Israel one or any other manufacturer and any other type of deal that can get vaccines in should be followed.

    Sputnik V say they have 50m vaccines ready to supply the EU and 2 factories in the EU will also be constructed to manufacture it so they are an obvious choice


  • #6341
    crossman47
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Godot. wrote: »
    Denmark went very big on Johnson & Johnson. They ordered over 8 million doses. At least Ireland didn't overload on AZ like some of the Eastern EU countries.

    Another big advantage in Denmark is the mandatory use of a unique personal identifier. Our civil liberties gang go ape at the prospect e.g. reaction to PPSN


  • Advertisement
  • #6342
    SheepsClothing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 350 ✭✭SheepsClothing


    Our glorious unelected technocrats in the European Commission cannot fail, they can only be failed!

    The truth is that the EU is so committed to preserving it's principles of free trade and free movement, that even during a society as we know it destroying pandemic, they still inflexibly persist with them even to the detriment of their populace.


  • #6343
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    For clarity, any vaccine that the EU can do a deal on, be it the Pfizer/Israel one or any other manufacturer and any other type of deal that can get vaccines in should be followed.

    Sputnik V say they have 50m vaccines ready to supply the EU and 2 factories in the EU will also be constructed to manufacture it so they are an obvious choice

    But had the EU done an Israel/Pfizer type deal, they would have chosen to rely on Pfizer alone which contradicts what you have been saying about using any other vaccine. They actually spread there bets which is more consistent with what you are saying, although you are saying they should now spread further to Sputnik. An Israel/Pfizer type deal was never an option for the EU anyway because of the scale of supply the EU needs.


  • #6344
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    SheepsClothing wrote: »
    Our glorious unelected technocrats in the European Commission cannot fail, they can only be failed!

    The truth is that the EU is so committed to preserving it's principles of free trade and free movement, that even during a society as we know it destroying pandemic, they still inflexibly persist with them even to the detriment of their populace.

    Have they criticised the Irish hotel quarantine scheme? I don't recall hearing anything about it


  • #6345
    davetherave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,533 ✭✭✭davetherave


    I'd be curious to know what the hours of operation at the mass vaccination centre from that photo on twitter are.

    If someone put up a photo of the testing centre in the Aviva taken at 9:46 of a Tuesday morning then it would look very similarly empty and deserted because the first appointments the HSE gave were 10am.


  • #6346
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Apogee wrote: »
    Realistically, less than that. For a start, they are keeping ~50% Moderna back in reserve. They will keep reserves of the others too.

    Deliveries as of 14th March vs target for March 31st/Q1
    Pfizer 511,290/690,300 = 74% delivered
    Moderna 40,800/109,200 = 37% delivered
    AZ 206,400/377,000 = 54% delivered

    Doses administered* as of 14th March vs deliveries same week:
    Pfizer 468,366/511,290 = 92% administered
    Moderna 19,389/40,800 = 48% administered
    AZ 124,510/206,400 = 60% administered
    *Percentages are probably an underestimate, as there is often a reporting lag.

    You can see where they have dependable supply (e.g. Pfizer), they are getting it out as fast as it arrives.


    Pfizer mRNA vaccine supply keeping the show on the road...
    https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1374618725287145477


  • #6347
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    Constructed? Are you serious? So we won’t actually see Sputnik in any large amount until way after everyone is vaccinated

    It’s funny how when one presses Russian propaganda spreaders about details it all falls apart

    The factories are physically built and producing but not approved, 50m would cover 14% of the EU population for one dosage overnight


  • #6348
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,502 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    The factories are physically built and producing but not approved, 50m would cover 14% of the EU population for one dosage overnight

    Which EU factories are already producing the Sputnik V vaccine?

    Where are those 50M vaccine being stored?


  • #6349
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Notice:
    Are vaccinators especially the new ones being trained to swab...have a 90 degree injection angle and in particular to aspirate in Ireland? Aspiration a precautionary principle now decided to be reinstated in Denmark... that recently had been recently done away with regarding IM vaccinations.
    Possible something for the HSE to comment on.

    https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_p?rurl=translate.google.com&sl=da&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.ssi.dk/vaccinationer/injektionsteknik/intramuskulaer-injektion-beorn-og-voksne&depth=2&nv=1&pto=aue,boq&usg=ALkJrhgAAAAAYFsTw2dATQ916fAPs4k30JxNQs54rrWk

    https://3wtbogbn37pfwjgtzbk2vubg6m-adwhj77lcyoafdy.translate.goog/nyheder/4614-myndighed-sadler-om-aendrer-anbefaling-om-vaccineteknik-efter-meldinger-om-farlige-bivirkninger.html

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=md8pJFbMVnk


  • #6350
    mick087
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    silverharp wrote: »
    whats Ireland up to that they arent on par with Denmark?

    https://twitter.com/alankellylabour/status/1374390324257116165

    Ireland gave its powers of acquiring the vaccine for its citizens to EU Commission.

    The EU commission are reasonable for acquiring the vaccines for the EU citizens.

    Do you believe the EU commission have done a good job in acquiring vaccines?
    Do you believe our elected government was correct in giving these powers away?

    Would Ireland have done better if we had gone it alone?
    Would we have been left behind in the vaccine race?


  • #6351
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    For clarity, any vaccine that the EU can do a deal on, be it the Pfizer/Israel one or any other manufacturer and any other type of deal that can get vaccines in should be followed.

    Sputnik V say they have 50m vaccines ready to supply the EU and 2 factories in the EU will also be constructed to manufacture it so they are an obvious choice

    They say 50m from June.

    Also - 2 factories to be constructed - see you in 18 months then. Best case 2 existing vaccine plants to be qualified is 6 months


  • Advertisement
  • #6352
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,519 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    mick087 wrote: »
    Ireland gave its powers of acquiring the vaccine for its citizens to EU Commission.

    The EU commission are reasonable for acquiring the vaccines for the EU citizens.

    Do you believe the EU commission have done a good job in acquiring vaccines?
    Do you believe our elected government was correct in giving these powers away?

    Would Ireland have done better if we had gone it alone?
    Would we have been left behind in the vaccine race?

    I don't think Ireland would have done better if we had gone it alone but I think the Commission could have done a better job. They aren't mutually exclusive propositions.
    Within the structure of the EU deal we should have picked up some of the doses that EU countries declined from their mRNA allocations as Denmark and Germany did. So we didn't even use our autonomy correctly within that scope. Though at least from the initial allocation we did take up our mRNA allocations fully rather than rely on cheaper AZ like some.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #6353
    mick087
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »
    We are on course to finish sooner than a lot of EU countries. This craic lately of people picking out exceptionalist examples and using it as a stick to beat the government with is very odd. Thin gruel.

    You do have a point.
    Once the supply issues of vaccines have been sorted Ireland will fly through vaccinating the public. We will also have a big intake of people wanting the vaccine.


  • #6354
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Within the structure of the EU deal we should have picked up some of the doses that EU countries declined from their mRNA allocations as Denmark and Germany did. So we didn't even use our autonomy correctly within that scope. Though at least from the initial allocation we did take up our mRNA allocations fully rather than rely on cheaper AZ like some.


    Ireland did pick up some of those declined doses, but the final numbers were small:
    Irish Times wrote:
    Efforts to secure extra vaccines through so-called “vaccine bazaars”, where European countries offer up spare doses, have had limited success. The Department of Health confirmed Ireland requested two million doses through this channel, but received only 138,000. Such channels are now little used as most countries are taking their full allocations.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-government-likely-to-miss-target-of-issuing-1-25m-vaccines-by-end-of-march-1.4502674


  • #6355
    mick087
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I don't think Ireland would have done better if we had gone it alone but I think the Commission could have done a better job. They aren't mutually exclusive propositions.
    Within the structure of the EU deal we should have picked up some of the doses that EU countries declined from their mRNA allocations as Denmark and Germany did. So we didn't even use our autonomy correctly within that scope. Though at least from the initial allocation we did take up our mRNA allocations fully rather than rely on cheaper AZ like some.

    I agree i don't think we should of gone alone.
    Questions will need to be asked about the EU commission after the crisis is over.

    Yes we did take up our allocation and i believe we might of got some of the doses not wanted by other state members.

    Ireland will fly through the vaccines once we have them.


  • #6356
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,523 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    mick087 wrote: »
    I agree i don't think we should of gone alone.
    Questions will need to be asked about the EU commission after the crisis is over.

    Yes we did take up our allocation and i believe we might of got some of the doses not wanted by other state members.

    Ireland will fly through the vaccines once we have them.

    Ireland had an option of going it alone or being part of the EU bulk buying program... On paper, at the time, we would have been silly to not go with the EU as it was probably the best deal going

    Another thing to bear in mind is that if we went it alone the HSE would be in charge of procurement and delivery. Given the history of the HSE I'm not sure they'd have done a better job than what the EC has done on that front

    I hope you're right about flying through vaccines once we have them


  • #6357
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    One more to the growing pile of these papers:

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.22.436441v1.full.pdf+html

    Would certainly be an option to do some dose sparing in the younger cohorts. Had a positive PCR test? Single dose and done.


  • #6358
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,476 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    A thought just popped into my head, anyone know how much it costs governments to buy these vaccines? Never heard it mentioned.

    Just curious as to how much it's working out per jab.


  • #6359
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,519 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    NIMAN wrote: »
    A thought just popped into my head, anyone know how much it costs governments to buy these vaccines? Never heard it mentioned.

    Just curious as to how much it's working out per jab.

    Some details on the prices here

    The EU financially supported the development of the BioNTech and Pfizer vaccine and has obtained a lower price per dose ($14.70 than the US ($19.50). The Moderna vaccine’s development was subsidised by the US government, and it will cost the US about $15 a dose, while the EU is paying $18.
    The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is much cheaper, although neither the UK nor the US can match the EU’s $2.15 deal: they are expecting to pay about $3 and $4, respectively, per dose.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n281

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #6360
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Some details on the prices here

    The EU financially supported the development of the BioNTech and Pfizer vaccine and has obtained a lower price per dose ($14.70 than the US ($19.50). The Moderna vaccine’s development was subsidised by the US government, and it will cost the US about $15 a dose, while the EU is paying $18.
    The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is much cheaper, although neither the UK nor the US can match the EU’s $2.15 deal: they are expecting to pay about $3 and $4, respectively, per dose.

    https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n281

    Even if we were 100% Pfizer - $144million (4.9m x 2 x $14.7) to get a vaccine for every man, woman and child is cheap for what it gives us.


  • Advertisement
  • #6361
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,519 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Even if we were 100% Pfizer - $144million (4.9m x 2 x $14.7) to get a vaccine for every man, woman and child is cheap for what it gives us.

    Yes, even if you take into account the sunken costs in terms of development support and there might have been funds advanced to Sanofi etc for vaccine research which came to naught.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement