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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #7592
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's easier to trot out vague excuses and keep the general public in the dark than be held in any way accountable. One may chirrup about unknowns, I deem it cowardly when half a million people are still denied gainful employment after several months.

    But the unknowns I talked about do exist and are a problem that makes any coherent planning or promises very difficult.

    Maybe if they were upfront about that instead of saying nothing it would be an improvement on the current situation.


  • #7593
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,635 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Arghus wrote: »
    But the unknowns I talked about do exist and are a problem that makes any coherent planning or promises very difficult.

    Maybe if they were upfront about that instead of saying nothing it would be an improvement on the current situation.

    I know it's nearly impossible for them to give any guarantee or definite path forward basing it on all the variables you mentioned.
    But if they just said that and were honest and open and explained the situation it would mean a lot. They are choosing not to, they are away in hiding and you only hear from them when there's either good or bad news. Which means months of silence.


  • #7594
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,804 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Why is it difficult now to produce a regional plan that can be tracked and accessed now Argus?

    Moving goalposts there with the Regional bit , I think .

    I think a plan could be outlined , but as Arghus said ,there are too many unknowns to track or assess it comprehensively/ effectively .
    An outline map is what we could have with ifs and buts .
    Better than this nothing.

    Regions could be allowed open up depending on case numbers , but can we wait until June for that at least so all us Dubs can go to our mobiles in Wexford or holiday homes in Clare or Galway first?;)

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  • #7595
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    They have already indicated last week that cases need to get under 200 a day, R number needs to be at 0.5 and those who are at most high-risk, over 70s and frontline workers need to be vaccinated before a meaningful easing of restrictions.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40241999.html


  • #7596
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,801 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Moving goalposts there with the Regional bit , I think .

    I think a plan could be outlined , but as Arghus said ,there are too many unknowns to track or assess it comprehensively/ effectively .
    An outline map is what we could have with ifs and buts .
    Better than this nothing.

    Regions could be allowed open up depending on case numbers , but can we wait until June for that at least so all us Dubs can go to our mobiles in Wexford or holiday homes in Clare or Galway first?;)

    Mmmh, how long are those plans in place, maybe dubs should stay in Dublin regardless

    Only let out after a referendum

    Free the Dubs maybe?

    The relaxation is where the real argument starts


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  • #7597
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    They have already indicated last week that cases need to get under 200 a day, R number needs to be at 0.5


    Absolutely impossible with the Schools open and they know damn well too

    Philip Nolan and his modelling team would have told them they need all remaining "safe" R0 in reserve for the Schools

    They need to be more honest with people about these things. They're taking us for gobshítes who - 12 months into this - can't figure out basic Maths

    If they said "when the Schools close in the Summer, we'll then use the newly spare R0 for other things. We'll look into outdoor restaurants etc"

    But nah

    We're treated like imbeciles instead


  • #7598
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,804 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Mmmh, how long are those plans in place, maybe dubs should stay in Dublin regardless

    Only let out after a referendum

    Free the Dubs maybe?

    The relaxation is where the real argument starts

    Haha , a lot of Dubs coulda / woulda say the same about keeping culchies out !

    Yeah very boring over there tonight, all one sided , not the level civilised debate going on here ..

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  • #7599
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,635 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    They have already indicated last week that cases need to get under 200 a day, R number needs to be at 0.5 and those who are at most high-risk, over 70s and frontline workers need to be vaccinated before a meaningful easing of restrictions.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40241999.html

    It's all fluid metrics.... 201 a day and R 0.2 (down from 0.4 a week earlier) and everyone vaccined by your logic we can't open.

    Likewise,
    199 cases, all those vaccinated that need to be done and the R being 0.2 then 0.3 then 0.5 over 3 weeks would be fine to open?

    The later would be disastrous. It's far too many variables to work out.


  • #7600
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,053 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    WoollyRedHat wrote: »
    They have already indicated last week that cases need to get under 200 a day, R number needs to be at 0.5 and those who are at most high-risk, over 70s and frontline workers need to be vaccinated before a meaningful easing of restrictions.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40241999.html
    Well, I'm sure some posters will be very happy to see some sort of plan and data-oriented goals are in place.


  • #7601
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Regions could be allowed open up depending on case numbers , but can we wait until June for that at least so all us Dubs can go to our mobiles in Wexford or holiday homes in Clare or Galway first?;)

    Yesterday someone suggested restrictions should be lifted in Cork, Leitrim and Kilkenny. I don't want to start yet another discussion on the population or area of co. Cork, but it's fairly difficult to have regional restrictions in many parts of the country.

    Just look at two of those counties - parts of co. Kilkenny are more less in Waterford City. Carrick-on-Shannon (Leitrim) is across a bridge from co. Roscommon. No-one would follow restrictions where one side of a river is closed, and the other is open.

    I guess it comes down to.. we need a plan. I don't think making plans has been a particular strength of the Irish government over the past year or so.


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  • #7602
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,298 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Meanwhile, the Dutch government are being proactive and looking at solution driven ideas to give their citizens hope and a sign that things will be better soon.

    https://www.facebook.com/163787543667251/posts/3936451723067462/


    Whether the July 1st for large gatherings happens remains to be seen but at least they are thinking outside the box unlike our lot who barely acknowledge that staycations might even be possible this summer.


  • #7603
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,836 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    Metrics never work, but we need a path.
    Like getting rid of the 5km limit, maybe meet outdoors socially is the next goal.
    These seem the biggest issues for people and I think the biggest moral boost we can get.

    We're told by NPHET to hold firm.... but they cannot really say hold firm and in a few weeks we can meet up outside, that's the Governments decision.
    That's the issue here, lack of Government direction. We get the same messaging from NPHET, that's their job. Government need to be more in touch with the public. They are absent and silent.

    People are already meeting outdoors


  • #7604
    Derek Zoolander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 434 ✭✭Derek Zoolander


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    It's all fluid metrics.... 201 a day and R 0.2 (down from 0.4 a week earlier) and everyone vaccined by your logic we can't open.

    Likewise,
    199 cases, all those vaccinated that need to be done and the R being 0.2 then 0.3 then 0.5 over 3 weeks would be fine to open?

    The later would be disastrous. It's far too many variables to work out.

    Why would the second option be disastrous- R number less than 1 means number of cases will decline - we’re in never ending lockdown if the perception in we can’t open with less than 200 cases and r=0.5


  • #7605
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Absolutely impossible with the Schools open and they know damn well too

    Philip Nolan and his modelling team would have told them they need all remaining "safe" R0 in reserve for the Schools

    They need to be more honest with people about these things. They're taking us for gobshítes who - 12 months into this - can't figure out basic Maths

    If they said "when the Schools close in the Summer, we'll then use the newly spare R0 for other things. We'll look into outdoor restaurants etc"

    But nah

    We're treated like imbeciles instead

    Ronan Glynn saying if we can just do a little more . Go back to what we were doing 2 weeks ago .

    That was the end for me . They are absolutely taking us for imbeciles . Stupid gullible mugs who don't have the brain capacity to figure out what actually changed 2 weeks ago .


  • #7606
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Schools open are required. That's a given.


  • #7607
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Leaks again this morning;

    5k ‘might’ be lifted to 10/20k.
    If they think people are going to adhere to 10/20km after being stuck in 5k for months on end...just shows how completely useless and out of touch they are.
    Another quote from the independent ‘growing sense that people aren’t coping with the current restrictions’ - you don’t say?
    People should keep emailing and contacting their TD’s and be proactive. The treatment of the Irish people, one of the most complaint through sheer incompetence has to end.


  • #7608
    newuser99999
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭newuser99999


    6 wrote: »
    Schools open are required. That's a given.

    Maybe if you’re a parent


  • #7609
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    There's zip evidence that outdoor gatherings are spreading the virus.

    Thousands of people on Brighton Beach, Superspreader- Nope, nothing happened.
    BLM Protests in Ireland/UK Superspreader - Nope, Nothing happened
    Anti-Lockdown Protests Ireland/Uk Superspreader - Nope, nothing happened.
    Superbowl in Florida, Superspreader - Nope Nothing happened
    Golf Tournament in Florida, Superspreader - Nope nothing happened.

    Even stuff like Non-essential retail and takeaway pints were blamed - Nothing happened.


    They are saying follow the science. It's like graphs and statistics are not scientific enough. They are following old science. We've had "Test Events" and they decided not to learn from it. Science isn't rigid and to a book. It evolves, you test it, you learn. They don't seem to want to learn.


  • #7610
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Great to hear 5k might be lifted. Positive news.


  • #7611
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    6 wrote: »
    Schools open are required. That's a given.

    That's irrelevant to what I said


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  • #7612
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    newuser99999 wrote: »
    Maybe if you’re a parent

    Or an employer...Or a tax payer

    Kids at home means parents at home means people getting benefits from the government. We all pay for it.


  • #7613
    Vicxas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,637 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    6 wrote: »
    Great to hear 5k might be lifted. Positive news.

    It needs to be County. 10/20km is pointless.


  • #7614
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Vicxas wrote: »
    It needs to be County. 10/20km is pointless.

    Yes, good point.


  • #7615
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,298 ✭✭✭prunudo


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Leaks again thus morning;

    5k ‘might’ be lifted to 10/20k.
    If they think people are going to adhere to 10/20km after being stuck in 5k for months on end...just shows how completely useless and out of touch they are.
    Another quote from the independent ‘growing sense that people aren’t coping with the current restrictions’ - you don’t say?
    People should keep emailing and contacting their TD’s and be proactive. The treatment of the Irish people, one of the most complaint through sheer incompetence has to end.

    I'd actually take 20km over county, allows me go to parts of Dublin legally. Just shows how stupid the restrictions are though, I would be allowed go to a highly populated county but not to isolated parts of my own county.


  • #7616
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    It's all fluid metrics.... 201 a day and R 0.2 (down from 0.4 a week earlier) and everyone vaccined by your logic we can't open.

    Likewise,
    199 cases, all those vaccinated that need to be done and the R being 0.2 then 0.3 then 0.5 over 3 weeks would be fine to open?

    The later would be disastrous. It's far too many variables to work out.

    199 cases, with r0 going from 0.2 to 0.3 to 0.5 in 3 weeks gets us to 15 cases in 3 weeks. I think that would be fine to open , don’t you?


  • #7617
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,836 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    6 wrote: »
    Or an employer...Or a tax payer

    Kids at home means parents at home means people getting benefits from the government. We all pay for it.

    Or a child


  • #7618
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Interesting but not especially cheery Nature reflections on how herd immunity may not work. It highlights again what is still unknown about SARS-COV-2, vaccine distribution, what vaccines are doing and how scientists and their data sometimes need to be counterbalanced with concepts of how humans work.


    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00728-2


  • #7619
    jackboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,127 ✭✭✭jackboy


    prunudo wrote: »
    I'd actually take 20km over county, allows me go to parts of Dublin legally. Just shows how stupid the restrictions are though, I would be allowed go to a highly populated county but not to isolated parts of my own county.

    Yes they need to strongly encourage outdoor activities for the next six months. Golf, hiking, beaches, team sports encouraged while indoor activities strictly policed. The virus cannot thrive in that environment.


  • #7620
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,417 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Vicxas wrote: »
    It needs to be County. 10/20km is pointless.

    County is pointless when there's no standard size of a county. Cork has huge options with County compared to Louth.

    20km would let me take part in my outdoor pursuits, County won't.


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  • #7621
    gifted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭gifted


    jackboy wrote: »
    Yes they need to strongly encourage outdoor activities for the next six months. Golf, hiking, beaches, team sports encouraged while indoor activities strictly policed. The virus cannot thrive in that environment.

    I can't understand how they can get children into a INDOOR classroom with up to 30 other kids for 5 hours a day and they all mix at lunchtime in the yard yet they won't allow the same kids to go back sports training OUTDOORS ......and I'm all for lockdown but when it starts to not make sense then I'm even beginning to question the logic of it.


This discussion has been closed.
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