Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings

RGS · 19-03-2021 05:03PM

Boggles wrote: »

Down from what?

It's like January and February never happened. :rolleyes:[/QUO

We know what happened after christmas and the blame, IMO, goes across the board, NPHET, the government and some sections of the community who didn't handle the relaxation as well as they should have.

Its close to the end of March, we are vaccinating the vulnerable, not at the an appropriate pace. We need to move on and give people hope and confidence.

Easing of some restrictions has to happen in April. I'm not calling for the re opening of all in April, but at present we are getting kiteflying that nothing will change.

MM interview with the mirror is ringing true.

Boggles · 19-03-2021 05:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Can anyone direct me to the analysis of the human and economic cost of lockdown yet?

So far alcohol consumption is down. It's the one concrete figure we have.

Which TBF has nothing to do with me, I have done my fair share.

19-03-2021 05:13PM

Multipass wrote: »

In other words the majority of people who died had such a short life span left in nursing homes that it wasn’t worth going to hospital. Still sad, but thanks for the reminder of who is being ‘saved’ and for how long, by shutting down an entire country for more than a year.

My mother was a resident in a nursing home because she was non mentis compos due to dementia. This did not mean she was in poor physical health, in fact, according to her doctors she was in very good physical health - until she caught covid19.

There is no way to measure what life span she would have had left if she had not contracted Covid19, and then not even given a chance by being brought to a hospital. Every life has worth. Its insulting to suggest someones life is not "worth" going to hospital to save.

I'm out.

Sharpyshoot · 19-03-2021 05:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Can anyone direct me to the analysis of the human and economic cost of lockdown yet?

Nphet think they are a success, the economic cost is BIG.

Pepsirebel · 19-03-2021 05:22PM

RGS wrote: »

Boggles wrote: »

MM interview with the mirror is ringing true.

What happened to data not dates approach. How can he give an interview a few weeks ago about data gathered for a decision in April when said data could not possibly have been available...is he psychic??

Coillte_Bhoy · 19-03-2021 05:28PM

Boggles wrote: »

So far alcohol consumption is down. It's the one concrete figure we have.

Which TBF has nothing to do with me, I have done my fair share.

Good man, we may disagree on many aspects of this ****show but on this we certainly are 'all in it together'

19-03-2021 05:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

So far alcohol consumption is down. It's the one concrete figure we have.

Which TBF has nothing to do with me, I have done my fair share.

You misunderstood.

I'm talking about the analysis our government took into consideration before closing businesses, putting people out of work, closing schools, restricting movement and travel, denying people the ability to get a passport. You know, that stuff.

Unsurprising that alcohol consumption is down with the pubs and restaurants being closed; a lot of people only drink when they go to them. More relevant will be the quantity of alcohol that alcoholics and alcohol dependents have been consuming compared to pre-lockdown, and how many people have fallen into alcohol dependence over the course of the restrictions. Not something that's easy to quantify when you're only looking at the overall consumption.

19-03-2021 05:33PM

RGS wrote: »

We know what happened after christmas and the blame, IMO, goes across the board, NPHET, the government and some sections of the community who didn't handle the relaxation as well as they should have.

I feel like a stuck record, but the "blame" for Jan/Feb numbers lies with variant B117 being imported from our nearest neighbours combined with the geographic distribution of our population.

A significant outbreak in Dublin increases our numbers the way that an increase in three quarters of another country's major cities would. It's not the same as (eg) and outbreak in London - it's the same as an outbreak in London, Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle, Liverpool, Leeds, Edinburgh, etc. etc. all at the same time.

Edit: Variant B117 is also the answer to all the "wHy aRe aLl tHe oThEr cOuNtRiEs sEeInG RiSiNg nUmBeRs?" questions.

19-03-2021 05:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You misunderstood.

I'm talking about the analysis our government took into consideration before closing businesses, putting people out of work, closing schools, restricting movement and travel, denying people the ability to get a passport. You know, that stuff.

Unsurprising that alcohol consumption is down with the pubs and restaurants being closed; a lot of people only drink when they go to them. More relevant will be the quantity of alcohol that alcoholics and alcohol dependents have been consuming compared to pre-lockdown, and how many people have fallen into alcohol dependence over the course of the restrictions. Not something that's easy to quantify when you're only looking at the overall consumption.

You can apply for a passport online. I got one through that during lockdown.

titan18 · 19-03-2021 05:42PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can apply for a passport online. I got one through that during lockdown.

Unless it's for an emergency or essential reason (so medical reasons, bereavements etc) then passport service is paused. Can't get a new one or renew one.

19-03-2021 05:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You can apply for a passport online. I got one through that during lockdown.

Good for you.

Site says they've paused operations as of December 24th and they're not currently accepting supporting documents except for emergency applications.

hynesie08 · 19-03-2021 05:47PM

titan18 wrote: »

Unless it's for an emergency or essential reason (so medical reasons, bereavements etc) then passport service is paused. Can't get a new one or renew one.

I've heard anecdotally of people who got one through the passport online service, but they're very much the minority.

funnydoggy · 19-03-2021 05:55PM

No passport service is utter shíte. A passport is essential.

Multipass · 19-03-2021 05:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

My mother was a resident in a nursing home because she was non mentis compos due to dementia. This did not mean she was in poor physical health, in fact, according to her doctors she was in very good physical health - until she caught covid19.

There is no way to measure what life span she would have had left if she had not contracted Covid19, and then not even given a chance by being brought to a hospital. Every life has worth. Its insulting to suggest someones life is not "worth" going to hospital to save.

I'm out.

That’s the government’s and HSE opinion, not my own. And I’m sorry for your loss.

I may never see a loved one again because of lockdown and the travel ban, I hope you’ll be sorry for mine.

AdrianBalboa · 19-03-2021 06:05PM

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

Nphet think they are a success, the economic cost is BIG.

Jesus posts like this are pathetic. Who actually thinks NPHET are enjoying all of this.

Coillte_Bhoy · 19-03-2021 06:09PM

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Jesus posts like this are pathetic. Who actually thinks NPHET are enjoying all of this.

Lots on here it seems

Monster249 · 19-03-2021 06:10PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Lots on here it seems

What's pathetic is the acceptance of the ineptitude of our Government.

Boggles · 19-03-2021 06:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You misunderstood.

I'm talking about the analysis our government took into consideration before closing businesses, putting people out of work, closing schools, restricting movement and travel, denying people the ability to get a passport. You know, that stuff.

Are you suggesting analysis was not put to the cabinet, or bemoaning the fact you are not privy to it not being member of the cabinet?

Deleted User wrote: »

Unsurprising that alcohol consumption is down with the pubs and restaurants being closed; a lot of people only drink when they go to them. More relevant will be the quantity of alcohol that alcoholics and alcohol dependents have been consuming compared to pre-lockdown, and how many people have fallen into alcohol dependence over the course of the restrictions. Not something that's easy to quantify when you're only looking at the overall consumption.

So consumption is down but less people are drinking more?

Can I see your analysis on that?

AdrianBalboa · 19-03-2021 06:16PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Lots on here it seems

I’ve seen people comparing the current measures to North Korea, the Stasi, or the Holocaust.

Not only is that an insult to the victims of actual totalitarian regimes throughout history it’s also wildly inaccurate: read any account of The Holocaust and you will discover that the camps were riddled with disease. Comparing that to the pandemic restrictions in modern day Ireland is genuinely obscene.

CruelSummer · 19-03-2021 06:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Some of us actually work in pharmaceuticals and know what we are talking about.;)

You did question me on my knowledge of the vaccine roll out earlier, at what point do you think they should start lifting the 5k, starting up outdoor sports, and other outdoor activities? Nphet seem to think we’ve to wait until 80% of the adult population are vaccinated despite many of this group not being vulnerable or high risk.
Have you been vaccinated?

the kelt · 19-03-2021 06:19PM

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Jesus posts like this are pathetic. Who actually thinks NPHET are enjoying all of this.

But he doesn’t say they are enjoying it.

He says they think they are a success.

CruelSummer · 19-03-2021 06:25PM

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Jesus posts like this are pathetic. Who actually thinks NPHET are enjoying all of this.

I actually think nphet are not the whole problem, but they are certainly part of it. Chris Whitty clearly stated in the UK, they were going to move to a strategy of living with covid, it would still circulate and exist even after vaccinations. That’s taking a pragmatic approach for the good of the country.
The government and nphet and their lack of leadership is a major problem here. They’re all trying to cover their asses and not take any responsibility for anything. It’s like a captainless ship trying to ride through a storm with no direction, leadership or end goal. We might make it through to the other side through sheer luck, or there could be serious irreversible collateral damage enroute.

Monster249 · 19-03-2021 06:26PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I actually think nphet are not the whole problem, but they are certainly part of it. Chris Whitty clearly stated in the UK, they were going to move to a strategy of living with covid, it would still circulate and exist even after vaccinations. That’s taking a pragmatic approach for the good of the country.
The government and nphet and their lack of leadership is a major problem here. They’re all trying to cover their asses and not take any responsibility for anything. It’s like a captainless ship trying to ride through a storm with no direction, leadership or end goal. We might make it through to the other side through sheer luck, or there could be serious irreversible collateral damage enroute.

Completely agree with this and this explains the crux of the issue very well.

the kelt · 19-03-2021 06:30PM

Boggles wrote: »

So far alcohol consumption is down. It's the one concrete figure we have.

Which TBF has nothing to do with me, I have done my fair share.

Tony H, The Irving Fisher of the Irish Medical world will be thrilled to hear that!

Boggles · 19-03-2021 06:33PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I actually think nphet are not the whole problem, but they are certainly part of it. Chris Whitty clearly stated in the UK, they were going to move to a strategy of living with covid, it would still circulate and exist even after vaccinations. That’s taking a pragmatic approach for the good of the country.
The government and nphet and their lack of leadership is a major problem here. They’re all trying to cover their asses and not take any responsibility for anything. It’s like a captainless ship trying to ride through a storm with no direction, leadership or end goal. We might make it through to the other side through sheer luck, or there could be serious irreversible collateral damage enroute.

Sorry, but who declared we will not be moving to a strategy of living with Covid after a high number of the populous are vaccinated?

Boggles · 19-03-2021 06:34PM

the kelt wrote: »

Tony H, The Irving Fisher of the Irish Medical world will be thrilled to hear that!

Sure Plandemic.

Tony is only after the pints.

retro:electro · 19-03-2021 06:40PM

MM “I don’t believe in speculating beyond April” translates to “we will lose the people entirely if we tell them we aren’t getting out of this until at least June”

19-03-2021 06:41PM

Boggles wrote: »

Are you suggesting analysis was not put to the cabinet, or bemoaning the fact you are not privy to it not being member of the cabinet?

If the analysis was done then it should be made public, given the severity of the lockdowns and the unprecedented restrictions on liberty. The government serves the people.

Boggles wrote: »

So consumption is down but less people are drinking more?

Can I see your analysis on that?

Alcohol consumption is down because all of the on-trade sales have effectively halted. Off-trade alcohol consumption has increased a lot. There is no analysis, Boggles (I refer you to my "not easy to quantify" statement) but yes, I think it's likely that when all is said and done we will realise that a lot of the increased off-trade alcohol consumption went to those who are struggling, and either caused or exacerbated dependence. I personally knew of one young woman who drank herself to death last year. Another who was nearly hospitalised with mental health issues.

Not going to post anything else here today after this. I've read some godawful stories today about children attempting suicide and suffering mental health issues, teenagers deprived of their social development for over a year, deaths of despair, lives destroyed for relapsing addicts, etc, and I honestly can't stomach the glib gotchas and smug "Ah-ha!" bull**** from people who think this is all about "pints". It sickens me, and I can only hope that those people will feel as ashamed of themselves and as dreadful as they should when the cost of their obeisance and their feckless compliance becomes apparent.

Peace.

19-03-2021 06:50PM

retro:electro wrote: »

MM “I don’t believe in speculating beyond April” translates to “we will lose the people entirely if we tell them we aren’t getting out of this until at least June”

More non-committal meanderings from MM, "I don't believe in offering leadership as I might be held accountable for it" being the speech bubble over his head. Meanwhile the public are held in a state of suspension, as if we are perfectly content to be kept guessing. Is it any wonder why people are casting aside arbitrary boundaries in droves.

gozunda · 19-03-2021 06:52PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can anyone direct me to the analysis of the human and economic cost of lockdown yet?

Folder right beside the analysis of the human and economic cost of the pandemic.

Fourth filing cabinet on the right - third drawer down.

But seriously- practically every country on the planet has experienced huge costs and impacts as a result of managing and containing the virus and of providing supports to business and sourcing millions of vaccinations for their populations.

Much of it will not be reckonable until the pandemic itself is over when we will be able to better able to account for the both monetary and human costs.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX Read OP For Mod Warnings