General Star Trek thread

breezy1985 · 15-03-2021 09:56AM

silverharp wrote: »

accents dont bother me in Sifi, a US show will be US accents, a British show they will oddly do British accents shocker. If anything the Expanse approach is a bit too try hard

The Expanse is trying to show that a UN or Starfleet organization is more than just future NASA which makes sense. Plus the idea.of US TV or movies isn't really a thing anymore as a lot of shows are funded by multiple groups from around the world and shot in different countries

silverharp · 15-03-2021 10:16AM

pixelburp wrote: »

The belter accents and language are simply ripped from the books, a new patois that formed from the natural patchwork quilt that formed the various stations and asteroids. Was a nice acknowledgement that language changes through circumstance; cos of course it has and always will ("panglish" is a good example of that happening right now in, I think, China) If you read the books, belter comes across more blatantly, seeing bits of French, German, Cantonese etc etc. mixed into things.

thats fine but as far as the show goes its kinds dumb, there is no way people will talk like they originated in the Caribbean. Whether English or Chinese is the working language in Space in the future is an ecumenical matter :pac: . that kind of accent sorta is plausible in something like The 100 where society/education has broken down.

Evade · 15-03-2021 11:07AM

There might be a more practical origin for the Belter language, radiospeak. Not broadcast radio, radio communication. With a formalised procedure there's a certain, sometimes off, way you're supposed to pronounce things and some really odd phrasing because if a transmission isn't clear the cadence and pronunciation of the clear fragments can still convey the meaning. It's the logic behind the NATO alphabet where each word that substitutes a letter has a distinct pronunciation from the rest. It's probably why Belter has sign language integrated into it but that rarely comes up after the first season.

GreeBo · 15-03-2021 11:12AM

Evade wrote: »

There might be a more practical origin for the Belter language, radiospeak. Not broadcast radio, radio communication. With a formalised procedure there's a certain, sometimes off, way you're supposed to pronounce things and some really odd phrasing because if a transmission isn't clear the cadence and pronunciation of the clear fragments can still convey the meaning. It's the logic behind the NATO alphabet where each word that substitutes a letter has a distinct pronunciation from the rest. It's probably why Belter has sign language integrated into it but that rarely comes up after the first season.

Yeah they certainly cover that the hand gestures are because its too hard to see facial expressions when everyone is masked up so frequently.

pixelburp · 15-03-2021 12:11PM

Yes, one of the few flaws of the show is the prominence of sign language isn't as high in the adaptation than the books. which is a shame because a huge part of the nuance of Belter culture and communication.

ixoy · 16-03-2021 02:07PM

Reading on article on space.com about how Discovery's fourth season is filming along with Strange New Worlds. Seems they'll be using some of 'The Mandalorian's' filming techniques for alien landscapes. I did enjoy this bit of snark:

Speaking of bad story writing, the fourth season of "Discovery" has also started principal photography in Toronto and after more than half-a-year's delay, the cast of "Picard" has returned to production for the second season.

pixelburp · 16-03-2021 02:20PM

Eh. If there's one thing I have got a little tired of it, is online outlets supplementing articles with bags of sass and sarcasm. I wouldn't be a "just the facts" kinda guy, but feels like the editorial direction for blogs these days is to ramp up the bitchiness to sometimes unreadable levels.

I mean, yeah, I'm first to say Disco's writing is shít but I'm just a random knuckle dragger, I want more from supposed professionals.

Sorry, segue over.

AMKC · 18-03-2021 09:05PM

Star Trek Enterprise Season2 Episode23 Regeneration.
To you really think Picard and co would leave all the Borg technolagy lying around. I for one do not. I think they would have scanned for any Borg debree then beamed it up.
So really that episode should not and probably would not happen.
What do ye think?

TheValeyard · 18-03-2021 09:08PM

AMKC wrote: »

Star Trek Enterprise Season2 Episode23 Regeneration.
To you really think Picard and co would leave all the Borg technolagy lying around. I for one do not. I think they would have scanned for any Borg debree then beamed it up.
So really that episode should not and probably would not happen.
What do ye think?

Might not have known. Sensors were down when they were dealing with the Sphere. Ship was partly assimilated by the time they regained control. Might not have been able to detect Borg debris scattered around.

Evade · 18-03-2021 09:15PM

AMKC wrote: »

Star Trek Enterprise Season2 Episode23 Regeneration.
To you really think Picard and co would leave all the Borg technolagy lying around. I for one do not. I think they would have scanned for any Borg debree then beamed it up.
So really that episode should not and probably would not happen.
What do ye think?

With the state the Enterprise was in they might not have been able to do any kind of comprehensive scan and they had to make themselves scarce before the Vulcans showed up.

Stark · 18-03-2021 09:34PM

First contact might have been the best of the TNG movies but a lot breaks down when you try to think about it too much. Even getting back to the future in the first place was at the end of the movie was a case of "LaForge, magic us back to the 24th century. Yes, sir".

breezy1985 · 18-03-2021 09:59PM

AMKC wrote: »

Star Trek Enterprise Season2 Episode23 Regeneration.
To you really think Picard and co would leave all the Borg technolagy lying around. I for one do not. I think they would have scanned for any Borg debree then beamed it up.
So really that episode should not and probably would not happen.
What do ye think?

I hated any Enterprise episode that played with other Trek series. The Ferengi episode and the one about the Klingon foreheads were disasters

breezy1985 · 18-03-2021 10:00PM

Stark wrote: »

First contact might have been the best of the TNG movies but a lot breaks down when you try to think about it too much. Even getting back to the future in the first place was at the end of the movie was a case of "LaForge, magic us back to the 24th century. Yes, sir".

They flew round the sun clockwise very fast I assume

Stark · 18-03-2021 10:07PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

They flew round the sun clockwise very fast I assume

I was thinking as I wrote it, you could go off on a very long tangent when it come to time travel in Trek. Kirk time travelled quite a lot considering Starfleet wasn't officially capable of time travel till the 26th century. Memory alpha actually includes Kirk's Enterprise in its list of "timeships". But then I consider quite a lot of TOS canon to be ret-conned from TNG onwards.

breezy1985 · 18-03-2021 10:10PM

Stark wrote: »

I was thinking as I wrote it, you could go off on a very long tangent when it come to time travel in Trek. Kirk time travelled quite a lot considering Starfleet wasn't officially capable of time travel till the 26th century. Memory alpha actually includes Kirk's Enterprise in its list of "timeships". But then I consider quite a lot of TOS canon to be ret-conned from TNG onwards.

They really were not thinking too deep about the plots in that sense back in TOS. There is an awful lot of gangster planets and cowboy planets in there

AMKC · 18-03-2021 11:07PM

breezy1985 wrote: »

I hated any Enterprise episode that played with other Trek series. The Ferengi episode and the one about the Klingon foreheads were disasters

The Feringi episode really was terrible but at least there is a few laughs in it
The episodes about the Klingons and how they lost there forehead do I thought were very good.

TheValeyard · 18-03-2021 11:30PM

AMKC wrote: »

The Feringi episode really was terrible but at least there is a few laughs in it
The episodes about the Klingons and how they lost there forehead do I thought were very good.

I thought the augment virus episode was really well done.

breezy1985 · 18-03-2021 11:58PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

I thought the augment virus episode was really well done.

It just never needed to exist. You dont need to explain crap 60s special effects.

Also Ill cry if we see another Soong especially played by Spiner

Rawr · 19-03-2021 06:47AM

breezy1985 wrote: »

They really were not thinking too deep about the plots in that sense back in TOS. There is an awful lot of gangster planets and cowboy planets in there

I suspect there was a lot of "Which set on the Paramount lot can we *borrow* this week?" thinking during that production.

Stark · 19-03-2021 09:45AM

They didn't have holodecks back then so needed whole planets as the settings for their period costume episodes

Watched the Augments episodes again during my recent Enterprise rewatch. Liked them better than I remembered. The whole premise was pointless but Brent Spiner did an excellent job with the Soong character. Like Lore but with a conscience.

Rawr · 19-03-2021 10:56AM

Roughly related to the sets conversation, I did stumble on this interesting video a few days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4QN4xgKXYU

It's interesting, and sort of makes sense, that Star Trek productions would have a couple of "favourite spots" to go out and shoot. Especially that rocky valley they used in both TOS and Voyager etc...

Evade · 19-03-2021 11:44AM

I'll always remember the Borg in Descent took over the original Oower Rangers HQ.

Stark · 19-03-2021 09:32PM

Wow, I was a massive power rangers fan as a kid but I never noticed that before.

Cookie_Monster · 20-03-2021 09:41AM

AMKC wrote: »

Star Trek Enterprise Season2 Episode23 Regeneration.
To you really think Picard and co would leave all the Borg technolagy lying around. I for one do not. I think they would have scanned for any Borg debree then beamed it up.
So really that episode should not and probably would not happen.
What do ye think?

Clearly they hung around long enough to patch up the Ent to take it back through the magic portal so would have had plenty of time to scan the place and tidy up the mess.

corkie · 20-03-2021 05:36PM

Why Do People Actually Hate New Star Trek?

~Rebel~ · 20-03-2021 07:22PM

corkie wrote: »

Why Do People Actually Hate New Star Trek?

Jeez he's a bit sanctimonious isn't he?

That 30 minutes basically amounts to - "People who really like things, don't like when different versions of those things come out because they don't like change."

Super reductionist, as he ignores all the actual specific criticisms, and keeps to "you don't like it cause you're stuck in your ways and are acting like a child". He claims this is where the majority of complaints come from, which judging from here and elsewhere is clearly not true, and a pretty hefty oversimplification.

breezy1985 · 20-03-2021 07:42PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Jeez he's a bit sanctimonious isn't he?

That 30 minutes basically amounts to - "People who really like things, don't like when different versions of those things come out because they don't like change."

Super reductionist, as he ignores all the actual specific criticisms, and keeps to "you don't like it cause you're stuck in your ways and are acting like a child". He claims this is where the majority of complaints come from, which judging from here and elsewhere is clearly not true, and a pretty hefty oversimplification.

These arguments also ignore critics of new Trek like myself who like some of the series and not others

corkie · 20-03-2021 07:49PM

He had slides for these quotes as well to try reinforce his argument/logic.

“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”
― Douglas Adams, The Salmon of Doubt

pixelburp · 20-03-2021 08:00PM

Red Letter Media at least recently decided to just pass on covering new Trek. They hate it, and obviously decided it was a waste of their time. I respect that rather than publishing Hate Watch videos. Which, if is to believed, often out strips "positive" videos for popularity. Honestly I stick to film essayists these days, cos I find the pop culture stuff is too prone to reductions or clickbait headlines (if they're not outright raging offence driven types).

Trek can accommodate action and superficial thrills, it's not antithetical to the brand; it's just the fundamental problem behind it all is the writing staff isn't good enough, and likes to Tell rather than Show, or give any character through action. Season 3 was phenomenally badly written, literally throwing out Big Emotional Moments without ever earning a damn one. Such as Adira suddenly becoming Stamets' "child" out of nowhere.

Evade · 20-03-2021 08:24PM

One thing I'm looking forward to seeing in a few years is interviews with people who worked on STD/Pic/whatever else they bring out once they're out of contract, I'm genuinely curious as to whether they think they've made something good.

There's plenty of interview or AOL chat snippets in Memory Alpha articles about older Star Trek episodes that have crew saying things like that episode just didn't work or that aspect of that episode really could have been better etc.

General Star Trek thread

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