General Star Trek thread

breezy1985

Evade wrote: »

Completely disagree. This is one is the worst ideas to crop up in the last few years and defeats the point of being an actor.

So you think O'Brien would have been as good if played by Tom Cruise or some other yank

helimachoptor

breezy1985 wrote: »

So you think O'Brien would have been as good if played by Tom Cruise or some other yank

at least they didnt get Colin Farrell..

imo, O'Brien for me had incredible depth as character and he was very normal (from an Irish perspective) . I think we identify with him a lot which is natural, but even from American friends they love the character.

Meaney appeared in the 2nd most amount of episodes.

pixelburp

Evade wrote: »

How exactly does someone act Somalian or east African?

If we're sticking to the times TOS was made? Same way they differentiated Scotty or Checkov. Either with a generic "African" accent - no different to irish, Scottish, French or other stereotyped voices acceptable then - or an attempt at a regional brogue, if the actor was feeling particularly empathic towards accuracy. Tricky in 1960s America I'd imagine. But this wasn't done cos "she's a black American" was Uhuru's total persona, and given the time was transformative enough.

Saying she was Somali is gilding the lilly and like, ok, she could be from the moon for all it mattered in Nicholes performance, as to be irrelevant to the point. Trek is an American show, its ships staffed with American actors. Except for the occasional time it threw in a Brit or generic Euro character. Or O'Brien, whose nationality was worn on his sleeve, local cursing n all.

Actually, scratch some of that. Half of American TV is made up of Canadians and Brits putting on US accents, so without checking Discos cast it might get even muddier :pac:

TheValeyard

I'd like to see Liam Neeson as an Admiral. But he'd probably turn out to be evil.

Evade

breezy1985 wrote: »

So you think O'Brien would have been as good if played by Tom Cruise or some other yank

I think he would have been as good if the American was as good an actor as Meaney.

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

If we're sticking to the times TOS was made? Same way they differentiated Scotty or Checkov. Either with a generic "African" accent - no different to irish, Scottish, French or other stereotyped voices acceptable then - or an attempt at a regional brogue, if the actor was feeling particularly empathic towards accuracy. Tricky in 1960s America I'd imagine. But this wasn't done cos "she's a black American" was Uhuru's total persona, and given the time was transformative enough.

Saying she was Somali is gilding the lilly and like, ok, she could be from the moon for all it mattered in Nicholes performance, as to be irrelevant to the point. Trek is an American show, its ships staffed with American actors. Except for the occasional time it threw in a Brit or generic Euro character. Or O'Brien, whose nationality was worn on his sleeve, local cursing n all.

Actually, scratch some of that. Half of American TV is made up of Canadians and Brits putting on US accents, so without checking Discos cast it might get even muddier :pac:

I'll accept both of them could have had a slight accent to reinforce it, then again people can have a second or third language without their native accent showing through, but I was more curious what "regional behaviour" is.

EDIT: LaForge did ululate at Worf's promotion which I suppose would be a regional behaviour.

pixelburp

Evade wrote: »

I'll accept both of them could have had a slight accent to reinforce it, then again people can have a second or third language without their native accent showing through, but I was more curious what "regional behaviour" is.

Just a clutch of any number of on-screen cues that Character X is from another part of the world that isn't America; which in Scotty's case was every possible Scottish behavioural stereotype imaginable. So to Uhura, and going by the example shown by Code of Honor, it's probably just as well they didn't ask the same of her to hit "generic African cultural markers" (still seen to this day with stuff like Coming to[2] America Black Panther), as we'd probably not be talking of TOS in the same praiseworthy breath.

Trek was never especially nuanced when it came to nationality or culture TBH, and given Patrick Stewart's apparent lineage; talking of second or third languages feels like a fudge to a reality: Star Trek is an American show, with an American audience, and American views of "the world". There's nothing wrong with that, I just don't see the sense in twisting into knots to add non-existent backstory to Uhura or LeForge

But none of this happened so Memory Alpha may say she was Somalian, but based purely on what we saw on the screen, she was American. And based on her cultural importance, enough to stop her walking from the part, she was American.

breezy1985

Evade wrote: »

I think he would have been as good if the American was as good an actor as Meaney.

All evidence I have ever seen would tell me that there are only 2 outcomes.
Either he does an accent and would be laughed at for the rest of time as another Oirish character
Or
He plays it straight like Burton does with his African character and the world assumes he is an Irish-American character.

Can't think of an American who ever got playing an Irish character right.

I'm perfectly fine with Burton playing an African character or Stewart playing a French one but I won't ever remember them as anything other than the English captain and his American engineer

Evade

pixelburp wrote: »

But none of this happened so Memory Alpha may say she was Somalian, but based purely on what we saw on the screen, she was American. And based on her cultural importance, enough to stop her walking from the part, she was American.

Based on on screen information it's almost certain she wasn't American. In Changeling when she was recovering her memories after being mind wiped she defaulted to speaking Swahili so it's a reasonable inference she was from somewhere in east Africa.

Also, LaForge was the Somalian, Uhura most likely wan't, though a Swahili dialect is spoken by a very small group of Somalians.

breezy1985

Evade wrote: »

Based on on screen information it's almost certain she wasn't American. In Changeling when she was recovering her memories after being mind wiped she defaulted to speaking Swahili so it's a reasonable inference she was from somewhere in east Africa.

Also, LaForge was the Somalian, Uhura most likely wan't, though a Swahili dialect is spoken by a very small group of Somalians.

I never picked up on that scene from Changeling and haven't seen it in ages thb. Nice story about it here

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0708454/trivia

pixelburp

Evade wrote: »

Based on on screen information it's almost certain she wasn't American. In Changeling when she was recovering her memories after being mind wiped she defaulted to speaking Swahili so it's a reasonable inference she was from somewhere in east Africa.

Also, LaForge was the Somalian, Uhura most likely wan't, though a Swahili dialect is spoken by a very small group of Somalians.

I'll take your exacting answer deferring to superior Trekkiness but TBH based on the sum total of what amounted to Uhura's character, it wasn't as well defined as it could have been, and absolutely stick to the original point.

Evade

breezy1985 wrote: »

Can't think of an American who ever got playing an Irish character right.

Honestly neither can I, I can think of a few non Americans who can, but I think a sufficiently skilled and motivated American actor could.

pixelburp

What I find weird is that often, UK and Irish actors have no trouble pulling an American accent - and I'm not aware of locals snarking at them either - while the reverse almost never applies, Americans utterly incapable of mimicking convincing euro accents. Wonder why that is, if it's down to each country's respective acting schools and methodologies. Or simply our exposure to American culture is so high it's easy to glom onto the accent. Like I said, here we all are, obsessed with an American show

breezy1985

pixelburp wrote: »

What I find weird is that often, UK and Irish actors have no trouble pulling an American accent - and I'm not aware of locals snarking at them either - while the reverse almost never applies, Americans utterly incapable of mimicking convincing euro accents. Wonder why that is, if it's down to each country's respective acting schools and methodologies. Or simply our exposure to American culture is so high it's easy to glom onto the accent. Like I said, here we all are, obsessed with an American show

I'm sure an American probably could do it if they took the time and we're open-minded enough to realize we are not like Irish Americans or the backwards Paddy you see on Wild Mountain Thyme.
Problem is the likes of Tom Cruise really thought they had nailed it

Markitron

The only examples I have seen of non-Irish people doing convincing Irish accents are Meryl Streep, Cate Blanchett and Brad Pitt (In Snatch not that awful IRA movie).

silverharp

accents dont bother me in Sifi, a US show will be US accents, a British show they will oddly do British accents shocker. If anything the Expanse approach is a bit too try hard

GreeBo

silverharp wrote: »

accents dont bother me in Sifi, a US show will be US accents, a British show they will oddly do British accents shocker. If anything the Expanse approach is a bit too try hard

I do find the Belter accents hard work, often takes me out of it as I trying to work out what they said but the scene has moved on!

silverharp

GreeBo wrote: »

I do find the Belter accents hard work, often takes me out of it as I trying to work out what they said but the scene has moved on!

i watched a lot of pirate shows before :pac:

pixelburp

The belter accents and language are simply ripped from the books, a new patois that formed from the natural patchwork quilt that formed the various stations and asteroids. Was a nice acknowledgement that language changes through circumstance; cos of course it has and always will ("panglish" is a good example of that happening right now in, I think, China) If you read the books, belter comes across more blatantly, seeing bits of French, German, Cantonese etc etc. mixed into things.

breezy1985

silverharp wrote: »

accents dont bother me in Sifi, a US show will be US accents, a British show they will oddly do British accents shocker. If anything the Expanse approach is a bit too try hard

The Expanse is trying to show that a UN or Starfleet organization is more than just future NASA which makes sense. Plus the idea.of US TV or movies isn't really a thing anymore as a lot of shows are funded by multiple groups from around the world and shot in different countries

silverharp

pixelburp wrote: »

The belter accents and language are simply ripped from the books, a new patois that formed from the natural patchwork quilt that formed the various stations and asteroids. Was a nice acknowledgement that language changes through circumstance; cos of course it has and always will ("panglish" is a good example of that happening right now in, I think, China) If you read the books, belter comes across more blatantly, seeing bits of French, German, Cantonese etc etc. mixed into things.

thats fine but as far as the show goes its kinds dumb, there is no way people will talk like they originated in the Caribbean. Whether English or Chinese is the working language in Space in the future is an ecumenical matter :pac: . that kind of accent sorta is plausible in something like The 100 where society/education has broken down.

Evade

There might be a more practical origin for the Belter language, radiospeak. Not broadcast radio, radio communication. With a formalised procedure there's a certain, sometimes off, way you're supposed to pronounce things and some really odd phrasing because if a transmission isn't clear the cadence and pronunciation of the clear fragments can still convey the meaning. It's the logic behind the NATO alphabet where each word that substitutes a letter has a distinct pronunciation from the rest. It's probably why Belter has sign language integrated into it but that rarely comes up after the first season.

GreeBo

Evade wrote: »

There might be a more practical origin for the Belter language, radiospeak. Not broadcast radio, radio communication. With a formalised procedure there's a certain, sometimes off, way you're supposed to pronounce things and some really odd phrasing because if a transmission isn't clear the cadence and pronunciation of the clear fragments can still convey the meaning. It's the logic behind the NATO alphabet where each word that substitutes a letter has a distinct pronunciation from the rest. It's probably why Belter has sign language integrated into it but that rarely comes up after the first season.

Yeah they certainly cover that the hand gestures are because its too hard to see facial expressions when everyone is masked up so frequently.

pixelburp

Yes, one of the few flaws of the show is the prominence of sign language isn't as high in the adaptation than the books. which is a shame because a huge part of the nuance of Belter culture and communication.

ixoy

Reading on article on space.com about how Discovery's fourth season is filming along with Strange New Worlds. Seems they'll be using some of 'The Mandalorian's' filming techniques for alien landscapes. I did enjoy this bit of snark:

Speaking of bad story writing, the fourth season of "Discovery" has also started principal photography in Toronto and after more than half-a-year's delay, the cast of "Picard" has returned to production for the second season.

pixelburp

Eh. If there's one thing I have got a little tired of it, is online outlets supplementing articles with bags of sass and sarcasm. I wouldn't be a "just the facts" kinda guy, but feels like the editorial direction for blogs these days is to ramp up the bitchiness to sometimes unreadable levels.

I mean, yeah, I'm first to say Disco's writing is shít but I'm just a random knuckle dragger, I want more from supposed professionals.

Sorry, segue over.

AMKC

Star Trek Enterprise Season2 Episode23 Regeneration.
To you really think Picard and co would leave all the Borg technolagy lying around. I for one do not. I think they would have scanned for any Borg debree then beamed it up.
So really that episode should not and probably would not happen.
What do ye think?

TheValeyard

AMKC wrote: »

Star Trek Enterprise Season2 Episode23 Regeneration.
To you really think Picard and co would leave all the Borg technolagy lying around. I for one do not. I think they would have scanned for any Borg debree then beamed it up.
So really that episode should not and probably would not happen.
What do ye think?

Might not have known. Sensors were down when they were dealing with the Sphere. Ship was partly assimilated by the time they regained control. Might not have been able to detect Borg debris scattered around.

Evade

AMKC wrote: »

Star Trek Enterprise Season2 Episode23 Regeneration.
To you really think Picard and co would leave all the Borg technolagy lying around. I for one do not. I think they would have scanned for any Borg debree then beamed it up.
So really that episode should not and probably would not happen.
What do ye think?

With the state the Enterprise was in they might not have been able to do any kind of comprehensive scan and they had to make themselves scarce before the Vulcans showed up.

Stark

First contact might have been the best of the TNG movies but a lot breaks down when you try to think about it too much. Even getting back to the future in the first place was at the end of the movie was a case of "LaForge, magic us back to the 24th century. Yes, sir".