Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

JTMan · 17-03-2021 12:27PM

BA and Ryanair have added vaccination / PCR details inside their apps ...

Two of Europe’s biggest airlines, British Airways and budget carrier Ryanair Holdings PLC, have started allowing fliers to provide vaccination and Covid test-result details alongside personal data, like passport numbers and visa information, during bookings. The airlines say the move will eventually help passengers show they have been inoculated when landing at destinations that have started to welcome vaccinated travelers.

Micky 32 · 17-03-2021 12:33PM

I see RTE are now reporting this now, await NEPHET banging the table in anger and outrage……

Yapamillias · 17-03-2021 02:23PM

bubblypop wrote: »

No one told me!
What's going to kill me here that they have in Turkey? Seriously, this is important information...........

Hard to read whether or not sarcasm is implied lol

I guess I am referring to bubbles mixing, shops open, barbers/hairdressers, gyms etc

edit: KILL being a very exaggerated choice of wording..

CruelSummer · 17-03-2021 03:55PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

I see RTE are now reporting this now, await NEPHET banging the table in anger and outrage……

Ireland needs to push ahead and join Europe in this urgently. We are very isolated where we are geographically and especially after Brexit. Our economy is going to crash soon and confidence in us as a place to come and do business is on the floor. Not to mention the hoards of EU and other skilled foreign workers heading for the nearest airport to get out of here.
At this stage the money used to pay NPHET will be cut such will be the state of affairs here financially..
Not to mention Irish taxpayers who've been bombarded with blame games, emotional abuse, and ISAG misleading and causing anxiety scaremongering - we as a people badly need to see we are not being disproportionately 'punished' by the powers that be - which we clearly are at the moment. For being complicit, co-operative and willing to take the authorities at their word and that Covid could be 'beaten' if we all stay at home - which was never true.

acequion · 17-03-2021 05:34PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Ireland needs to push ahead and join Europe in this urgently. We are very isolated where we are geographically and especially after Brexit. Our economy is going to crash soon and confidence in us as a place to come and do business is on the floor. Not to mention the hoards of EU and other skilled foreign workers heading for the nearest airport to get out of here.
At this stage the money used to pay NPHET will be cut such will be the state of affairs here financially..
Not to mention Irish taxpayers who've been bombarded with blame games, emotional abuse, and ISAG misleading and causing anxiety scaremongering - we as a people badly need to see we are not being disproportionately 'punished' by the powers that be - which we clearly are at the moment. For being complicit, co-operative and willing to take the authorities at their word and that Covid could be 'beaten' if we all stay at home - which was never true.

Excellent post, thank you. It really needs to hit people's pockets for them to wake up to the real implications of all this. And the potentially catastrophic impact on all our economic futures.

Donald Trump · 17-03-2021 06:14PM

acequion wrote: »

Excellent post, thank you. It really needs to hit people's pockets for them to wake up to the real implications of all this. And the potentially catastrophic impact on all our economic futures.

Well I suppose that all the so-called "experts" somehow came to the conclusion that you postponing your city break away in lieu of the hope of opening up other restrictions here a bit earlier might have less economic impact then allowing everyone to travel but keeping the lockdown for longer. They are obviously wrong.

Yes, we've endured another few months at Level 5 restrictions, but imagine if people had stupidly obeyed restrictions around Christmas and not traveled or had house parties. The country would have been bankrupted for generations. What good would it have been if we had been able to stay at level 3 with more businesses open for the last 2 months if we didn't have those 2020 Christmas house parties keeping us afloat for the next generation?

I'd love to see us all vaccinated and back to normal by July. It's unlikely but I'd be delighted if it were true. At this stage, I wouldn't risk committing to travel in June. If I were to book time off and book flights etc, I'd be looking more towards later in the year. Sept/Oct/Nov. The longer you postpone, the more likely you will be able to actually go. Don't risk your money or your annual leave with June.

Corholio · 17-03-2021 06:27PM

The European Commission have released more thorough information about the 'Digital Green Certificate' (not sure if posted here already)

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_1187.

Hopefully Ireland don't have to be dragged kicking and screaming into this.

KanyeSouthEast · 17-03-2021 06:32PM

Corholio wrote: »

The European Commission have released more thorough information about the 'Digital Green Certificate' (not sure if posted here already)

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_1187.

Hopefully Ireland don't have to be dragged kicking and screaming into this.

This is the fear isn’t it.

Golfman64 · 17-03-2021 06:34PM

Corholio wrote: »

The European Commission have released more thorough information about the 'Digital Green Certificate' (not sure if posted here already)

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_1187.

Hopefully Ireland don't have to be dragged kicking and screaming into this.

Some great cohesive progress alright. Hopefully up and running in May/June to get the industry back functioning.

Looking forward to getting away again this summer.

Donald Trump · 17-03-2021 06:47PM

KanyeSouthEast wrote: »

This is the fear isn’t it.

I honestly don't understand this "they are doing this deliberately because they are out to specifically get me" paranoia.

If there is a coherent system that people can abide by, then of course restrictions could be relaxed. It is very difficult (as evidenced on this thread) to have some people actually do their bit though. It is those people who necessitate the prolonging of restrictions.

I don't know whether they don't understand cause and effect, or whether they love lockdowns. If there is a green passport system and people follow the rules then it might work and travel could open up earlier. If people abuse it and take the piss, then it won't.

fm · 17-03-2021 07:04PM

Corholio wrote: »

The European Commission have released more thorough information about the 'Digital Green Certificate' (not sure if posted here already)

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_1187.

Hopefully Ireland don't have to be dragged kicking and screaming into this.

"If a Member State continues to require holders of a digital green certificate to quarantine or test, it must notify the Commission and all other Member States and provide reasons for such measures."

This could be a get out clause for the government possibly keeping quarantine but depends how many countries might want this.

Also pcr and rapid antigen tests are to be accepted.

Donald Trump · 17-03-2021 07:18PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Either the majority have Donald on ignore or are just choosing not to engage. Probably the best way of dealing with him.

They might not be back from the oul' protest earlier.

https://www.independent.ie/videos/youre-scum-youre-working-for-the-new-world-order-anti-lockdown-protestors-demonstrate-outside-rte-40208362.html

Micky 32 · 17-03-2021 07:27PM

Corholio wrote: »

The European Commission have released more thorough information about the 'Digital Green Certificate' (not sure if posted here already)

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_1187.

Hopefully Ireland don't have to be dragged kicking and screaming into this.

NEphet have already expressed their view on it when mentioned a couple of weeks back “ Now is not the time to be thinking of that”

CruelSummer · 17-03-2021 07:34PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I honestly don't understand this "they are doing this deliberately because they are out to specifically get me" paranoia.

If there is a coherent system that people can abide by, then of course restrictions could be relaxed. It is very difficult (as evidenced on this thread) to have some people actually do their bit though. It is those people who necessitate the prolonging of restrictions.

I don't know whether they don't understand cause and effect, or whether they love lockdowns. If there is a green passport system and people follow the rules then it might work and travel could open up earlier. If people abuse it and take the piss, then it won't.

Ireland have been a disgrace towards travel, basically blaming our mismanagement of Covid & HSE / NPHET / Government response on the trickle of people passing through airports.
Coupled with this, they’ve actually stopped giving Irish citizens passports. Something they and every EU citizen should be entitled to.
They’ve any skilled workers working here that can leave running for the hills with their approach. Anyone expecting all airports to reopen, airlines to be ok & our connectivity to resume as before after the vilification campaign that’s gone on are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Not to mention I’d be quaking in my boots if I was an Irish hotelier dependent on ‘foreign’ tourists. They were basically treated like disease spreading pariahs last year & won’t be returning in a hurry so they can be vilified from pillar to post across the disgrace that is Irish media, all for a supporting our tourist industry.

Donald Trump · 17-03-2021 07:51PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Ireland have been a disgrace towards travel, basically blaming our mismanagement of Covid & HSE / NPHET / Government response on the trickle of people passing through airports.
Coupled with this, they’ve actually stopped giving Irish citizens passports. Something they and every EU citizen should be entitled to.
They’ve any skilled workers working here that can leave running for the hills with their approach. Anyone expecting all airports to reopen, airlines to be ok & our connectivity to resume as before after the vilification campaign that’s gone on are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Not to mention I’d be quaking in my boots if I was an Irish hotelier dependent on ‘foreign’ tourists. They were basically treated like disease spreading pariahs last year & won’t be returning in a hurry so they can be vilified from pillar to post across the disgrace that is Irish media, all for a supporting our tourist industry.

There is a deadly virus going around. Have you not heard? It is contagious and people carry it and spread it from place to place. That is why those who try to manage public health on a macro level place controls on non-essential mass movement of people. It is people who are carrying the virus - it's not some fella in the HSE waking up in a huff and deciding to push a button to create 200 cases of corona in Mullingar next week.

All this faux-outrage at the the fate of foreign workers or airport viability or the plight of people in the Irish hospitality sector is just an attempt to place a thin veneer on a rant. Particularly for the latter. Because on this thread, there is a huge correlation and overlap between the people who feel the need to go abroad and those who moan about the weather and people here and proudly profess that they would never consider a stay-cation.

If you actually want to help Irish hoteliers then book a holiday here for early in the summer and save your foreign trips for later in the year. There are lots of great things to do and see here.

17-03-2021 08:52PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you actually want to help Irish hoteliers then book a holiday here for early in the summer and save your foreign trips for later in the year. There are lots of great things to do and see here.

Hmmmmm.....I’d help Irish hoteliers, B&B owners etc if they had a good product and didn’t rip you off.

Donald Trump · 17-03-2021 09:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmmmmm.....I’d help Irish hoteliers, B&B owners etc if they had a good product and didn’t rip you off.

That's fine to have that opinion. I just think it would be strange if a person holds that opinion and also has sympathy for their downtown in business due to corona restrictions. I'm not saying that you do.

If I think that they are ripping people off, then I would think that they should address that and make themselves more competitive before any special dispensation or treatment should be considered for them. That seems logical to me.

17-03-2021 09:13PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

That's fine to have that opinion. I just think it would be strange if a person holds that opinion and also has sympathy for their downtown in business due to corona restrictions. I'm not saying that you do.

If I think that they are ripping people off, then I would think that they should address that and make themselves more competitive before any special dispensation or treatment should be considered for them. That seems logical to me.

They don’t need to address it. They don’t need to be competitive. Because people are being forced to staycation. Hoteliers and B&Bs just have to sit back and watch the money roll in. Have you looked to book somewhere lately? It’s astonishing....both the prices and the dreary accommodation on offer

It won’t be my money, but there’ll be enough people that’ll be paying up

ypres5 · 17-03-2021 09:18PM

Golfman64 wrote: »

Some great cohesive progress alright. Hopefully up and running in May/June to get the industry back functioning.

Looking forward to getting away again this summer.

judging by the way the vaccine rollouts going here and across the wider eu ill be able to look forward to a trip late 2032 if I'm lucky

Donald Trump · 17-03-2021 09:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

They don’t need to address it. They don’t need to be competitive. Because people are being forced to staycation. Hoteliers and B&Bs just have to sit back and watch the money roll in. Have you looked to book somewhere lately? It’s astonishing....both the prices and the dreary accommodation on offer

It won’t be my money, but there’ll be enough people that’ll be paying up

Do you have sympathy for them? That is my point. I don't think that you do. Your position appears to be consistent. My point was not directed to you or to people with consistent stances.

It was directed to those who complain about not holidaying here due to what they perceive to be rip-off merchants while simultaneously appearing to be espousing sympathy for the plight of those same rip-off merchants.

(I'm not saying they are or are not rip-off merchants - I am just talking about the consistency of peoples' arguments. Yours appears to be consistent so I have no problem with it from that perspective)

Ray Donovan · 17-03-2021 10:25PM

ypres5 wrote: »

judging by the way the vaccine rollouts going here and across the wider eu ill be able to look forward to a trip late 2032 if I'm lucky

Unless you are immune compromised and require a vaccine for your own personal health issues prior to travelling, you can travel this Summer. Digital Green Travel Certification is on the way for
1) If you have been vaccinated or

2) You have a previous covid posivite test within 180 days and are recovered or

3) You provide a negative PCR or rapid antigen test prior to travel.

It seems pretty straightforward to me anyways.

Corholio · 17-03-2021 10:41PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

NEphet have already expressed their view on it when mentioned a couple of weeks back “ Now is not the time to be thinking of that”

That was when it was only an idea floated, there's a framework for it now. Not saying they'll be happy but they have to work a lot harder to outright dismiss it now.

Although I did see Micheal Martin saying earlier today it could be a problem for civil liberties, which is nonsense, it's not a vaccination passport.

sy_flembeck · 17-03-2021 11:08PM

Corholio wrote: »

That was when it was only an idea floated, there's a framework for it now. Not saying they'll be happy but they have to work a lot harder to outright dismiss it now.

Although I did see Micheal Martin saying earlier today it could be a problem for civil liberties, which is nonsense, it's not a vaccination passport.

'Michael Martin' and 'nonsense' in the same sentence, well i never....

ypres5 · 17-03-2021 11:50PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Unless you are immune compromised and require a vaccine for your own personal health issues prior to travelling, you can travel this Summer. Digital Green Travel Certification is on the way for
1) If you have been vaccinated or

2) You have a previous covid posivite test within 180 days and are recovered or

3) You provide a negative PCR or rapid antigen test prior to travel.

It seems pretty straightforward to me anyways.

thanks i didn't know that I've put my trips off until the end of the year anyway to give things a little breathing room in regards to the vaccine rollout and easing of restrictions but i definitely plan on going abroad this year

mmclo · 18-03-2021 12:14AM

Corholio wrote: »

That was when it was only an idea floated, there's a framework for it now. Not saying they'll be happy but they have to work a lot harder to outright dismiss it now.

Although I did see Micheal Martin saying earlier today it could be a problem for civil liberties, which is nonsense, it's not a vaccination passport.

***

"When travelling, every Digital Green Certificate holder will have the same rights as citizens of the visited Member State who have been vaccinated, tested or recovered.

If a Member State continues to require holders of a digital green certificate to quarantine or test, it must notify the Commission and all other Member States and provide reasons for such measures."

Seems to be just a form of mutual recognition but as before each state can take it's own measures but can't have more onerous ones for citizens of other member states

So Ireland can have tough conditions for re-entry and for it's own citizens. The only differential in Ireland at the moment is the 14 days for named countries. So Austria would be the only issue, by the time this is introduced they may well be off that list and even if not it would probably need some action by the Commission or the ECJ

It is not a JHA measure though so no opt out, and as a regulation will automatically be law in member states

Donald Trump · 18-03-2021 12:21AM

Corholio wrote: »

Although I did see Micheal Martin saying earlier today it could be a problem for civil liberties, which is nonsense, it's not a vaccination passport.

Why is it nonsense? I mean it is nonsense that it should cause an issue, but the reality that there could be an issue is not nonsense.

You will always get one or two unreasonable crackpots challenging things on some tangent or edge case. I expect that any such measure would be challenged, or at least run the risk of being potentially challenged, through the courts.

Corholio · 18-03-2021 03:21AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Why is it nonsense? I mean it is nonsense that it should cause an issue, but the reality that there could be an issue is not nonsense.

You will always get one or two unreasonable crackpots challenging things on some tangent or edge case. I expect that any such measure would be challenged, or at least run the risk of being potentially challenged, through the courts.

It's nonsense because he used 'civil liberties' in such a broad term to dodge the question, while the term itself has been used painfully too much in recent times by a lot (not all) who had never even used the term before and parroted it after reading it somewhere. It's nonsense because it's not infringing on status once proven, the PCR test, vaccine etc. There could technically be 'issues' with any measure a government or union take, just saying 'civil liberties' neither explains or furthers the point.

Donald Trump · 18-03-2021 10:06AM

Corholio wrote: »

It's nonsense because he used 'civil liberties' in such a broad term to dodge the question, while the term itself has been used painfully too much in recent times by a lot (not all) who had never even used the term before and parroted it after reading it somewhere. It's nonsense because it's not infringing on status once proven, the PCR test, vaccine etc. There could technically be 'issues' with any measure a government or union take, just saying 'civil liberties' neither explains or furthers the point.

It's only nonsense if you don't understand or anticipate the potential obstacles. They would need to be very careful with how they try to implement it, and even then, it could be challenged and defeated.

Ireland is different to continental countries in terms of obligations to carry identification at all times. They will not be able to make it mandatory for everyone to carry that document when going about their day-to-day. Regardless of how reasonable it may seem to the majority of people to carry it. They might try to restrict movement etc. on public health ground but for enforcing it, it will likely be more having to tell a Guard that you have it, and tell the Guard your name rather than actually having to have the document in your possession for inspection.

There were enough loons on this thread (and similar threads) complaining about violations of their constitutional and/or UN human rights because there was a backlog at the passport office. It can hardly be that much of a leap to anticipate that there could also be a backlash and threatened legal challenges if holding this document is the discriminator between being allowed to leave the country and not.

Last year, at the very start of this, we had Gemma O'Doherty and John Waters issued proceedings challenging the concept of the constitutionality of any public health measures in response to Covid19. The challenge itself was nonsense but a prediction that there would be challenges would not have been nonsense

To give another example, are you aware that you do not need a Public Service Card to obtain a driving licence? Despite the (understandable, and most would say reasonable) intention to make it mandatory in order to streamline processing, it was fought against and pushed back.

I would anticipate similar challenges against any form of vaccination cert. There are also plenty of anti-vaxxers who would likely want their name in the papers and their big day in court over it too.

josip · 18-03-2021 10:07AM

Does anyone know if the proposed vaccine certificate will be issued:

When the first dose is administered or
When the final dose is administered
Or when maximum immunity has been achieved X days after the final dose as per the vaccine manufacturer's guidelines ?

18-03-2021 10:13AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's only nonsense if you don't understand or anticipate the potential obstacles. They would need to be very careful with how they try to implement it, and even then, it could be challenged and defeated.

Ireland is different to continental countries in terms of obligations to carry identification at all times. They will not be able to make it mandatory for everyone to carry that document when going about their day-to-day. Regardless of how reasonable it may seem to the majority of people to carry it. They might try to restrict movement etc. on public health ground but for enforcing it, it will likely be more having to tell a Guard that you have it, and tell the Guard your name rather than actually having to have the document in your possession for inspection.

There were enough loons on this thread (and similar threads) complaining about violations of their constitutional and/or UN human rights because there was a backlog at the passport office. It can hardly be that much of a leap to anticipate that there could also be a backlash and threatened legal challenges if holding this document is the discriminator between being allowed to leave the country and not.

Last year, at the very start of this, we had Gemma O'Doherty and John Waters issued proceedings challenging the concept of the constitutionality of any public health measures in response to Covid19. The challenge itself was nonsense but a prediction that there would be challenges would not have been nonsense

To give another example, are you aware that you do not need a Public Service Card to obtain a driving licence? Despite the (understandable, and most would say reasonable) intention to make it mandatory in order to streamline processing, it was fought against and pushed back.

I would anticipate similar challenges against any form of vaccination cert. There are also plenty of anti-vaxxers who would likely want their name in the papers and their big day in court over it too.

And there was me thinking that this was just a digital travel certificate to allow me to travel to Greece

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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