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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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Comments

  • #5762
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Deeper Blue wrote: »
    Ah here

    It's TRUE.
    If you want to know what real lockdown is take a look at Belgium and many other countries .
    We have a " please stay home " as opposed to " not allowed out " with armed police in the street .


  • #5763
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-lockdowns-werent-worth-it-11615485413?mod=e2tw


  • #5764
    Psychedelic Hedgehog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Psychedelic Hedgehog


    Kinda disgusting he's complaining about nobody applying cost benefit analysis to people's lives.


  • #5765
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Eng/status/1370871975552372738

    It's interesting, the new wave is very consistently and clearly spreading west across the continent. Odd some of the patterns the virus takes, there does seem to be climactic and geographic influences as there are often times such similar trajectories across large areas that operate under different covid restrictions, but you'd wonder why it would be in this pattern from west to east and only beginning in Spring time.

    This article discusses shows how many of the countries who relaxed lockdown earlier than us are now experiencing rising case numbers , illustrates somewhat my previous reply ..

    https://www.statista.com/chart/23330/coronavirus-restrictions-europe-map/


  • #5766
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,592 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    AdamD wrote: »
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-lockdowns-werent-worth-it-11615485413?mod=e2tw
    Psychedelic Hedgehog wrote: »
    Kinda disgusting he's complaining about nobody applying cost benefit analysis to people's lives.

    Ha I was about to say the same. Was watching the video and of course saving lives cost money. Cost benefit would be econimy over lives. Mass produce the virus and taint the water or air or something to cause 100% infections in the shortest time possible. Let those who will die, those seeing medical attention die. After a few weeks you have weeded out the weak and vulnerable and the economy would for the most part come out unscathed. Society would be deeply scarred, but economy comes first.

    Or you lockdown, cripple the economy and protect lives. Then you rebuild the economy.


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  • #5767
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    It's TRUE.
    If you want to know what real lockdown is take a look at Belgium and many other countries .
    We have a " please stay home " as opposed to " not allowed out " with armed police in the street .

    Belgian police are armed as are many police forces around the world. They're not going to shoot people breaking restriction ffs.


  • #5768
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    humberklog wrote: »
    Belgian police are armed as are many police forces around the world. They're not going to shoot people breaking restriction ffs.

    Never said that they would / should ffs.

    Sorry to be rude , just replying in kind .


  • #5769
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Never said that they would / should ffs


    So why mention they're armed? Ok, I got you wrong- so what were you saying by pointing out that Belgian police are armed and what relevance is that to enforcing lockdown measures?


  • #5770
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    Ha I was about to say the same. Was watching the video and of course saving lives cost money. Cost benefit would be econimy over lives. Mass produce the virus and taint the water or air or something to cause 100% infections in the shortest time possible. Let those who will die, those seeing medical attention die. After a few weeks you have weeded out the weak and vulnerable and the economy would for the most part come out unscathed. Society would be deeply scarred, but economy comes first.

    Or you lockdown, cripple the economy and protect lives. Then you rebuild the economy.

    See this is just dim. Lockdown has a cost in lives too, that needs to be considered.


  • #5771
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,592 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    humberklog wrote: »
    Belgian police are armed as are many police forces around the world. They're not going to shoot people breaking restriction ffs.

    I think she's trying to say in Ireland we're mainly asked to stay at home if possible. Follow the guidelines etc... Other European countries have been very heavy handed in enforcing a lockdown.

    Their lockdown may vary from here, but for a whole, we have had a less strictly enforced one. Mainly down to compliance and also being policed by consent.

    I think mentally, I know I can drive across the country and visit family and friends, but choose not to. If I was actually stopped/prevented from doing that, physically stopped, then I would feel trapped and more inclined to protest about it. The harder and heavier you enforce a restriction is when you start loosing public compliance and trust. We bitch and moan about our lockdown and rightly so, but as a whole, we comply.


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  • #5772
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,449 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    humberklog wrote: »
    So why mention they're armed? Ok, I got you wrong- so what were you saying by pointing out that Belgian police are armed and what relevance is that to enforcing lockdown measures?

    As opposed to our " please stay at home " measures .
    Yes, big psychological difference being told to go home by a weapon yielding police officer than one of our local AGS ..


  • #5773
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,592 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    AdamD wrote: »
    See this is just dim. Lockdown has a cost in lives too, that needs to be considered.

    You should make that comment when you dumped the link.
    I didn't know if you agreed or disagreed with the link.
    Hell someone linked a porn video before, although me thinks that was a mistake in the copy and paste! was fun calling them out over it.

    So lock downs cost lives, I'm sure they do. Through this pandemic we we lost over 4.5k people to covid. How many dies because of lockdown? I assume it's more than 4.5k? If we didn't lockdown, we would have saved those lives you're talking about, but I've a strong feeling we would have lost ALOT more than 4.5k people to covid.

    There's really no way to know, worst deaths per population is Gibraltar with 0.27% of the population dead from covid. That's based on 12% infected.
    So worst case for Ireland would be like 140k dead. I don't think we're close to knowing the actual CFR for covid yet. It's been proven if a country like Brazil let it rip though and keep the country open, people take extra care and stay home as much as possible, it still hurts the economy.


  • #5774
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,592 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    As opposed to our " please stay at home " measures .
    Yes, big psychological difference being told to go home by a weapon yielding police officer than one of our local AGS ..

    Ah in fairness, they wouldn't be pointing the gun at you. And the public would be well use to seeing a policeman armed. I remember my first time up north and seeing a police officer armed, was very intimating. I'm sure people living in countries with armed police are not as intimated by it as we would be.

    But needless to say, our enforcement by the police has been light touch for the most part. You need to keep the public onside!


  • #5775
    humberklog
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,896 Mod ✭✭✭✭humberklog


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    As opposed to our " please stay at home " measures .
    Yes, big psychological difference being told to go home by a weapon yielding police officer than one of our local AGS ..

    There's not. Belgium and most other EU countries are used to their police carrying guns. There's been far bigger protests in countries where police are armed and no one has been shot.

    You're saying guns are a deterrent against breaking restriction, because? Because people are afraid of being shot by police if they break the rules?

    Police carrying guns makes zero difference in the implementation of restriction because everyone knows they're not going to be shot for breaking them. And rightly so because that would be insane.


  • #5776
    Tokyo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Mod: Samsonsmasher - quit it with the soapboxing.


  • #5777
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    Yep we missed last year too as it all kicked off mid-March and Easter was quiet too so just stayed local.

    Making up for it this year, booked a week in Fingal Bay.

    Lots of celebs moving down here now to escape the misery.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/12/hollywood-down-under-stars-flock-from-us-to-film-in-covid-free-australia

    They took our Matt Damon :(


  • #5778
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Brazil is in a very difficult situation. They don't have data to conclusively say if the variant is making things worse there.

    https://twitter.com/HIVTox/status/1370914150415790080?s=20


  • #5779
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Arghus wrote: »
    We exited lockdown at the start of December with cases in the 200's per day - we went back into lockdown a month later with cases approaching 10,000. And while in lockdown, cases have gone from that figure down to 600.

    I don't understand how you can claim lockdowns don't work to reduce cases. It's completely clear that they do.

    The illness peaking has more to do with cases rising and falling than any lockdown does. Look at the graphs from all over Europe. We know the peaks were last March/April and December.

    It just so happens that countries go into lockdown as a response to the peak. But the peak passes and cases drop regardless of what actions you take. As it did in Sweden who didn’t lockdown.

    A country like Ireland that stays in a constant state of lockdown... eventually we will prove my theory in my opinion. Especially if a 4th wave kicks off.

    That’s not to say that lockdown doesn’t help at all.


  • #5780
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,098 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Just pondering this morning

    Cork and Kerry is a vast area with low incidence. Perhaps there is an argument to ease restrictions there first and monitor the effects before taking nationwide approach. But there’s have to be a strong Garda enforcement at borders. The B117 variant is obviously behaving differently to whatever was here last spring so it would be good to try out easing of restrictions there first.

    I’m also thinking the difference between Carlow ( mid table ) and kilkenny ( lowest incidence in country) is the IT in Carlow given the median age of new cases is 29!

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  • #5781
    Cork2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    Brazil is in a very difficult situation. They don't have data to conclusively say if the variant is making things worse there.

    https://twitter.com/HIVTox/status/1370914150415790080?s=20

    No mention if they had an underlying condition or not?
    Brazil have tried to be like Sweden but with worse healthcare and slums! Of course covid will be more devastating and with bolsanaro in charge nothing else could be expected!


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  • #5782
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,098 ✭✭✭✭fits


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It just so happens that countries go into lockdown as a response to the peak. But the peak passes and cases drop regardless of what actions you take. As it did in Sweden who didn’t lockdown.

    A country like Ireland that stays in a constant state of lockdown... eventually we will prove my theory in my opinion. Especially if a 4th wave kicks off.

    That’s not to say that lockdown doesn’t help at all.

    You are not factoring in the human behaviour. People obviously change their behaviour when cases are high and are more relaxed when they fall with or without restrictions. That does not mean restrictions don’t work however or that they are not needed.

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  • #5783
    john why
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭john why


    Did Italy go back into lockdown?


  • #5784
    blade1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,860 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    fits wrote: »
    Just pondering this morning

    Cork and Kerry is a vast area with low incidence. Perhaps there is an argument to ease restrictions there first and monitor the effects before taking nationwide approach. But there’s have to be a strong Garda enforcement at borders. The B117 variant is obviously behaving differently to whatever was here last spring so it would be good to try out easing of restrictions there first.

    I’m also thinking the difference between Carlow ( mid table ) and kilkenny ( lowest incidence in country) is the IT in Carlow given the median age of new cases is 29!

    Imagine the uproar when Micheal Martin announces opening up if his home county while keeping most of the rest in lockdown.


  • #5785
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,098 ✭✭✭✭fits


    blade1 wrote: »
    Imagine the uproar when Micheal Martin announces opening up if his home county while keeping most of the rest in lockdown.

    There’s always noise but majority of population is receptive to a good argument. Places like kk and Leitrim might feel hard done by but they don’t have same geographical advantages.

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  • #5786
    Leftwaffe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    fits wrote: »
    Just pondering this morning

    Cork and Kerry is a vast area with low incidence. Perhaps there is an argument to ease restrictions there first and monitor the effects before taking nationwide approach. But there’s have to be a strong Garda enforcement at borders. The B117 variant is obviously behaving differently to whatever was here last spring so it would be good to try out easing of restrictions there first.

    I’m also thinking the difference between Carlow ( mid table ) and kilkenny ( lowest incidence in country) is the IT in Carlow given the median age of new cases is 29!

    In Germany the restrictions are different based on the incidence rate in different regions I believe. This was mentioned last year in Ireland so I’m expecting us to try and implement it in about six months and even at that they’ll make a balls of it. Like ‘mandatory quarantine’. They were quick enough to shut off Laois, Offaly and Kildare that time so they should be equally willing to open up counties with low incidence rates.... Won’t hold my breathe.


  • #5787
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,098 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Leftwaffe wrote: »
    In Germany the restrictions are different based on the incidence rate in different regions I believe. This was mentioned last year in Ireland so I’m expecting us to try and implement it in about six months and even at that they’ll make a balls of it. Like ‘mandatory quarantine’. They were quick enough to shut off Laois, Offaly and Kildare that time so they should be equally willing to open up counties with low incidence rates.... Won’t hold my breathe.


    Yes but their regions would have larger populations than ours in total so it’s apples and oranges.

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  • #5788
    Vicxas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,629 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Well doom and gloom has certainly taken hold here this week. After such a promising start


  • #5789
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,423 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    fits wrote: »
    You are not factoring in the human behaviour. People obviously change their behaviour when cases are high and are more relaxed when they fall with or without restrictions. That does not mean restrictions don’t work however or that they are not needed.

    His mantra the last 12 months has been lockdowns dont work. He aint stopping now.


  • #5790
    JTMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,581 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Sunday Times reports here (paywall) that Oxford University study results show that Ireland has the second toughest lockdown in the EU and top 10 in the world and on the mental health effects of the lockdown ...

    - The scores are based on 19 metrics that include requirements for face coverings, school and business closures, travel restrictions, and economic supports. This weekend Ireland has a score of 84.26.

    Meanwhile the lockdown is causing the mental health crisis to get even worse ...

    - Psychological Society of Ireland, said his profession was struggling to cope with the numbers seeking help. “Referrals are seeing significant increases, well beyond the capacity to respond”.
    - “There’s a tunnel vision ... I think [Nphet] needs a much broader understanding of what affects people’s health." Psychological Society of Ireland said.
    - Other experts agree that not enough attention is being paid to the economic and mental health damage being caused by restrictions.


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  • #5791
    KanyeSouthEast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭KanyeSouthEast


    JTMan wrote: »
    Sunday Times reports here (paywall) that Oxford University study results show that Ireland has the second toughest lockdown in the EU and top 10 in the world and on the mental health effects of the lockdown ...

    - The scores are based on 19 metrics that include requirements for face coverings, school and business closures, travel restrictions, and economic supports. This weekend Ireland has a score of 84.26.

    Meanwhile the lockdown is causing the mental health crisis to get even worse ...

    - Psychological Society of Ireland, said his profession was struggling to cope with the numbers seeking help. “Referrals are seeing significant increases, well beyond the capacity to respond”.
    - “There’s a tunnel vision ... I think [Nphet] needs a much broader understanding of what affects people’s health." Psychological Society of Ireland said.
    - Other experts agree that not enough attention is being paid to the economic and mental health damage being caused by restrictions.

    Nothing to see here something something pints something something Lanzarote something something something quit whinging.


This discussion has been closed.
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