When will it all end?

El_Duderino 09 · 13-03-2021 02:19PM

mightyreds wrote: »

You think "I don't know" will cut it, they are on massive salary's they have a full years data, "I don't know" doesn't cut it.

Sure. So even if they don’t know, you want them to make up some numbers or dates and then move them when they don’t work out.

Nobody knows. Some people are asserting things and acting certain while they do it, others are being honest and telling you they don’t know. It’s always disappointing to see people prefer the certain lie than the honest uncertainty. It teaches politicians that people prefer lies they want to hear over the truth they don’t want to hear.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-03-2021 02:23PM

Here’s a discussion on the impact of obesity on covid deaths.

The salient points are that obesity is certainly a factor in covid deaths but age and number of cases are the biggest determinants of death. If nobody in the world were obese there would have been about 7% fewer deaths.

It’s certainly significant even if not the biggest factor.

Edit: link
https://overcast.fm/+IPMbumHMQ

drunkmonkey · 13-03-2021 02:28PM

aido79 wrote: »

I have always thought that rapid testing and effective treatment is the best solution to this rather than a vaccine but rapid testing isn't reliable and the treatment isn't available at present whereas the vaccine has been proven to be effective.

The treatments are available they've been granted under emergency use just not in Europe, America has it's orders in.
The vaccines are still in trial as well even the ones we are using. No long term study on the effects can even be started yet.
I'd like the media to mention something besides vaccines, we had Leo mention the Merck pill in January and not a peep since, our media didn't even pick up on it and completely ignored the Asthma inhaler from AstraZeneca, it's infuriating at this stage to see such blissful ignorance. What health advice have NPHET provided besides stay at home and don't drink as we all know the virus loves it.
I don't know any county that has had an 80% vaccine uptake and to hear that normal isn't anywhere in sight until we hit that figure is crazy talk, it can't be achieved.
What we think now will all be wrong in 6mts time..

mightyreds · 13-03-2021 02:30PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. So even if they don’t know, you want them to make up some numbers or dates and then move them when they don’t work out.

Nobody knows. Some people are asserting things and acting certain while they do it, others are being honest and telling you they don’t know. It’s always disappointing to see people prefer the certain pie than the honest uncertainty. It teaches politicians that people prefer lies they want to hear over the truth they don’t want to hear.

No I want them to analyse the data they have, provide some risk management scenarios.
They have a years worth of infection data and buckets of data coming from israel, the uk and the US on the vaccine and the best they have is a worry meter.
If I was asked in work to provide some timelines on an upcoming project do you think hiding and saying I don't know would suffice.

Rodin · 13-03-2021 02:31PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Here’s a discussion on the impact of obesity on covid deaths.

The salient points are that obesity is certainly a factor in covid deaths but age and number of cases are the biggest determinants of death. If nobody in the world were obese there would have been about 7% fewer deaths.

It’s certainly significant even if not the biggest factor.

Obesity isn't honestly talked about half enough.
It needs tackled.

drunkmonkey · 13-03-2021 02:32PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Here’s a discussion on the impact of obesity on covid deaths.

The salient points are that obesity is certainly a factor in covid deaths but age and number of cases are the biggest determinants of death. If nobody in the world were obese there would have been about 7% fewer deaths.

It’s certainly significant even if not the biggest factor.

Wasn't it 70% of hospital admissions were obese according to the CDC.
We're going to lose more people to heart disease and diabetes as a result of these lockdowns than we could have ever saved from Covid.
Staying at home is not a plan, get outside, exercise, scrap the county and 5km limit immediately it's stupid where outdoor activities are concerned.

Micky 32 · 13-03-2021 02:32PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. So even if they don’t know, you want them to make up some numbers or dates and then move them when they don’t work out.

Nobody knows. Some people are asserting things and acting certain while they do it, others are being honest and telling you they don’t know. It’s always disappointing to see people prefer the certain pie than the honest uncertainty. It teaches politicians that people prefer lies they want to hear over the truth they don’t want to hear.

A good Saturday afternoon waffle. You seem to really have a bee in your bonnet regarding people who think and hope restrictions end. Does it upset you because that view threathens your future world of restrictions or incase you’re proved wrong? Why do you keep repeating the same posts over and over and over and over? :rolleyes:

Just incase your post reffers to me i’ll explain something to you. I’m well aware and so are a lot of people of the uncertainties. Sure you might get your restrictions next winter, of course that’s possible who knows you might be right and then you can carry on with your smugness if you’re right.

However going by all the recent data, these vaccines are amazing ( and will only get better)and in my opinion i don’t think we’ll have restrictions come next winter, i think it’s unlikely ( or at least to the point it affecting normality too much). The end is coming. It’s just an opinion of course it and doesn’t mean i’m right

drunkmonkey · 13-03-2021 02:33PM

Rodin wrote: »

Obesity isn't honestly talked about half enough.
It needs tackled.

We can't because that's fat shaming, you could end up like Mr Potato Head for even mentioning it.

Rodin · 13-03-2021 02:34PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We can't because that's fat shaming, you could end up like Mr Potato Head for even mentioning it.

He's just Potato head now...sorry..

They are just potato head now.

RGS · 13-03-2021 02:35PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. So even if they don’t know, you want them to make up some numbers or dates and then move them when they don’t work out.

Nobody knows. Some people are asserting things and acting certain while they do it, others are being honest and telling you they don’t know. It’s always disappointing to see people prefer the certain pie than the honest uncertainty. It teaches politicians that people prefer lies they want to hear over the truth they don’t want to hear.

So we pay 15 cabinet ministers, at least 15 advisors, we appointed 40 members to NPHET at a cost of roughly 9 million euro and a year later they cant analyze data and create a plan out of this. This is not acceptable to me or a number of other posters. If you think is an acceptable situation then I think we as a country are in real trouble.

JDxtra · 13-03-2021 03:15PM

Listening to the radio there in the background, and it's incredible just how many adverts are state funded - either directly for Covid awareness or for some Government agency.

The state must be keeping commercial broadcasters and RTE afloat. You'd wonder if this fact is influencing their ability to be impartial and restricting them from asking some hard questions.

Anyways, time to flick on Spotify...

Scotty # · 13-03-2021 03:23PM

Lundstram wrote: »

Not at all. They got a good deal at the end of last year. They'll be fine.

They have a government who listen to their people. Here in Ireland, if a referendum doesn't go as planned, we do it again.

The UK has put the EU to shame.

Exports to EU down 40% in January alone!!! You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Brexit has been good for the UK.

aido79 · 13-03-2021 03:29PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The treatments are available they've been granted under emergency use just not in Europe, America has it's orders in.
The vaccines are still in trial as well even the ones we are using. No long term study on the effects can even be started yet.
I'd like the media to mention something besides vaccines, we had Leo mention the Merck pill in January and not a peep since, our media didn't even pick up on it and completely ignored the Asthma inhaler from AstraZeneca, it's infuriating at this stage to see such blissful ignorance. What health advice have NPHET provided besides stay at home and don't drink as we all know the virus loves it.
I don't know any county that has had an 80% vaccine uptake and to hear that normal isn't anywhere in sight until we hit that figure is crazy talk, it can't be achieved.
What we think now will all be wrong in 6mts time..

The vaccines have been approved. They're not at trial stages. The treatments you are talking about are either at trial stages or hasn't been approved in Europe yet so they aren't options and can't have an influence on the opening of the country.
If you're not going to come up with anything credible I don't see any point in continuing this.

ypres5 · 13-03-2021 03:57PM

Scotty # wrote: »

Exports to EU down 40% in January alone!!! You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think Brexit has been good for the UK.

two quotes from the article you linked:

Experts said the scale of the decline in January trade was unlikely to be permanent because there was evidence companies stockpiled goods before the Brexit deadline, meaning they would not need to send as many shipments as usual in January.

And

Frost, who was elevated last month to become the cabinet minister responsible for Britain’s relationship with the EU, said these effects were now “starting to unwind” and that overall freight volumes had been “back to their normal levels for over a month now”.

it normally helps if you read more than just the headlines

Scotty # · 13-03-2021 04:12PM

ypres5 wrote: »

two quotes from the article you linked:
Frost, who was elevated last month to become the cabinet minister responsible for Britain’s relationship with the EU, said ...

Pro brexit minister puts positive spin on 40% drop in exports... SHOCKER!!

Vaccines aside (the only thing since covid broke that the UK got right, after their disastrous initial response), Brexit has been and continues to be a disaster for all involved.

ypres5 · 13-03-2021 04:15PM

Scotty # wrote: »

Pro brexit minister puts positive spin on 40% drop in exports... SHOCKER!!

Vaccines aside (the only thing since covid broke that the UK got right, after their disastrous initial response), Brexit has been and continues to be a disaster for all involved.

what about the experts mentioned in the first paragraph? just admit you couldn't be arsed to read the article

Scotty # · 13-03-2021 04:23PM

ypres5 wrote: »

what about the experts mentioned in the first paragraph?

First pararaph?

UK exports of goods to the EU plunged by 40.7% in January as the first month since Brexit and the imposition of a new Covid lockdown resulted in the biggest monthly decline in British trade for more than 20 years.

No experts mentioned.

None in second either...

In the first month since leaving the EU on terms agreed by Boris Johnson’s government, the Office for National Statistics said goods exports to the bloc fell by £5.6bn, while imports fell by 28.8%, or £6.6bn.

...but you keep waving your little Union Jack there like a good lad.

ypres5 · 13-03-2021 04:33PM

Scotty # wrote: »

First pararaph?

No experts mentioned.

None in second either...

...but you keep waving your little Union Jack there like a good lad.

this paragraph from the article, I never realized reading comprehension was waving a union jack

Experts said the scale of the decline in January trade was unlikely to be permanent because there was evidence companies stockpiled goods before the Brexit deadline, meaning they would not need to send as many shipments as usual in January

El_Duderino 09 · 13-03-2021 04:33PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Wasn't it 70% of hospital admissions were obese according to the CDC.
We're going to lose more people to heart disease and diabetes as a result of these lockdowns than we could have ever saved from Covid.
Staying at home is not a plan, get outside, exercise, scrap the county and 5km limit immediately it's stupid where outdoor activities are concerned.

I don’t know about the 70% obesity hospital admissions stat. Where did you read about that?

The issue of exercise in lockdown is interesting. People can exercise within 5km of their house. They can exercise inside their house with all the free exercise videos available.

In a passive way, people would obviously exercise more without restrictions. But if people want to exercise within 5km of their house, they’ll have no problem doing it.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-03-2021 04:40PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

A good Saturday afternoon waffle. You seem to really have a bee in your bonnet regarding people who think and hope restrictions end. Does it upset you because that view threathens your future world of restrictions or incase you’re proved wrong? Why do you keep repeating the same posts over and over and over and over? :rolleyes:

Just incase your post reffers to me i’ll explain something to you. I’m well aware and so are a lot of people of the uncertainties. Sure you might get your restrictions next winter, of course that’s possible who knows you might be right and then you can carry on with your smugness if you’re right.

However going by all the recent data, these vaccines are amazing ( and will only get better)and in my opinion i don’t think we’ll have restrictions come next winter, i think it’s unlikely ( or at least to the point it affecting normality too much). The end is coming. It’s just an opinion of course it and doesn’t mean i’m right

Did you mean to quote me for that post? You didn’t represent any of my opinions in those assumptions.

Scotty # · 13-03-2021 04:43PM

ypres5 wrote: »

this paragraph from the article, I never realized reading comprehension was waving a union jack

Experts said the scale of the decline in January trade was unlikely to be permanent because there was evidence companies stockpiled goods before the Brexit deadline, meaning they would not need to send as many shipments as usual in January

No, I don't believe it will be that low going forward either. But they're certainly not better off post Brexit than they were pre Brexit. Neither are we. It's very bad for us too. It's just not so apparent yet as Covid is screwing up the numbers.

As regards the vaccines, Brexit has been hugely beneficial to the UK but for everything else it hasn't.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-03-2021 04:47PM

RGS wrote: »

So we pay 15 cabinet ministers, at least 15 advisors, we appointed 40 members to NPHET at a cost of roughly 9 million euro and a year later they cant analyze data and create a plan out of this. This is not acceptable to me or a number of other posters. If you think is an acceptable situation then I think we as a country are in real trouble.

They could throw out a few numbers or dates if that’s what you want. But at the moment they don’t have the data to make a reliable and valid plan.

I’m not sure if people would care if the plan is valid or not. Some people just want to hear a plan and some numbers. Maybe any old numbers would do.

Lundstram · 13-03-2021 04:53PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They could throw out a few numbers or dates if that’s what you want. But at the moment they don’t have the data to make a reliable and valid plan.

I’m not sure if people would care if the plan is valid or not. Some people just want to hear a plan and some numbers. Maybe any old numbers would do.

How about we get a daily updates on the vaccine situation instead of the daily sh1tfest of case numbers which are largely irrelevant considering we were told all that matters is hospital numbers.

Some clarity on vaccine numbers, delivery dates and data would be nice.

By all means release case and death numbers daily but we don't need to be lectured like little kids every day by people earning 6 figure salaries - Glynn, Hoolahan, Reid etc.

We seem to thrive on misery in this country.

sabat · 13-03-2021 04:58PM

aido79 wrote: »

The vaccines have been approved. They're not at trial stages. The treatments you are talking about are either at trial stages or hasn't been approved in Europe yet so they aren't options and can't have an influence on the opening of the country.
If you're not going to come up with anything credible I don't see any point in continuing this.

The vaccines have not been "approved" by the FDA or EMA; they've been been "authorised" for emergency use which is quite different. And yes, the current rollout and the data obtained from it is considered part of the trial process. This information is so ubiquitous I'm not going to bother linking...

El_Duderino 09 · 13-03-2021 04:59PM

Lundstram wrote: »

How about we get a daily updates on the vaccine situation instead of the daily sh1tfest of case numbers which are largely irrelevant considering we were told all that matters is hospital numbers.

Some clarity on vaccine numbers, delivery dates and data would be nice.

By all means release case and death numbers daily but we don't need to be lectured like little kids every day by people earning 6 figure salaries - Glynn, Hoolahan, Reid etc.

We seem to thrive on misery in this country.

If they gave a daily update on vaccines administered, first or second dose, vaccine brand used. Is that the kind of thing you mean?

Scotty # · 13-03-2021 05:04PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It is abuse and we are being held hostage.

Hardly. I'm sure I heard on the Tonight Show during the week that several thousand (11k ?) left Ireland last week for holidays. Sure wasn't Ginger/ypres or someone in Spain?

I was out and about in Drogheda this morning. If you did't know better you'd never guess there was a lockdown in place. All the retail parks opened and busy. Coffee shops and cafe's in the town open and buzzin'. Traffic very busy.

I live next to Brú na Bóinne and the place is chockers from sunrise to sunset every day. Lots of mates meeting up for a walk or run.

Yes, absolutely for some people it is a struggle but the vast majority I think are taking it in their stride.

Scotty # · 13-03-2021 05:07PM

Lundstram wrote: »

How about we get a daily updates on the vaccine situation instead of the daily sh1tfest of case numbers which are largely irrelevant considering we were told all that matters is hospital numbers.

Some clarity on vaccine numbers, delivery dates and data would be nice.

By all means release case and death numbers daily but we don't need to be lectured like little kids every day by people earning 6 figure salaries - Glynn, Hoolahan, Reid etc.

We seem to thrive on misery in this country.

But these numbers are given every day. It's your news source that's only relaying case numbers if that's all you hearing. Change your news source.

Vaccine info here > https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

drunkmonkey · 13-03-2021 05:15PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don’t know about the 70% obesity hospital admissions stat. Where did you read about that?

The issue of exercise in lockdown is interesting. People can exercise within 5km of their house. They can exercise inside their house with all the free exercise videos available.

In a passive way, people would obviously exercise more without restrictions. But if people want to exercise within 5km of their house, they’ll have no problem doing it.

Sorry it was 78% I posted it the other day. NPHET must have similar data at their fingertips, why don't they just come out and say exactly who is at risk.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughly-78percent-of-people-hospitalized-were-overweight-or-obese.html

The 5km is stupid and not based on any science as admitted by NPHET themselves. Stop excusing the madness. The Government know the majority aren't putting any notice of the 5km limit they're just keeping it in place as some listening to it is better than nobody in their eyes.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-03-2021 05:23PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Sorry it was 78% I posted it the other day. NPHET must have similar data at their fingertips, why don't they just come out and say exactly who is at risk.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughly-78percent-of-people-hospitalized-were-overweight-or-obese.html

The 5km is stupid and not based on any science as admitted by NPHET themselves. Stop excusing the madness. The Government know the majority aren't putting any notice of the 5km limit they're just keeping it in place as some listening to it is better than nobody in their eyes.

I don’t know why they don’t talk more about obesity being a risk factor. They should.

I didn’t defend the 5km restriction. I said that if people want to exercise within 5km of their house (or inside their house) they can do so, no bother. And for free. And that’s just true

RGS · 13-03-2021 05:29PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They could throw out a few numbers or dates if that’s what you want. But at the moment they don’t have the data to make a reliable and valid plan.

I’m not sure if people would care if the plan is valid or not. Some people just want to hear a plan and some numbers. Maybe any old numbers would do.

It's getting tedious discussing this with you. Everyone of us posters who think a better plan can be produced are wrong.

The experts in government and NPHET are right because they cant analyze and create a plan other than lockdown and vaccinate. If that fails continue the lockdown.
And we pay 9 million euro for that crap.

When will it all end?

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