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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    Norma Foley has stated that current 5th year students will receive accomodations in the Leaving Cert of 2022 due to the impact of covid 19.

    Foley said she was "very aware" of the loss of in-person teaching that current 5th years have experienced. She acknowledged the work that had gone into remote teaching/learning..

    Wonder what she/dept will come up this time.........hmmmm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    combat14 wrote: »
    hard to believe numbers seem to be stuck at 600 and we are locked down for months now

    nphet saying this week they are looking for numbers to go to 200 to open everything up

    how will the country have any kind of summer at this rate

    hopefully sending hundreds of thousands of students back to school too early wont send us into the fourth wave nphet and the government are talking about this week

    Probably because the high transmission rate this new variant they are dealing with and the fact that an awful lot of people aren't adhering to level 5.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Norma Foley has stated that current 5th year students will receive accomodations in the Leaving Cert of 2022 due to the impact of covid 19.

    Foley said she was "very aware" of the loss of in-person teaching that current 5th years have experienced. She acknowledged the work that had gone into remote teaching/learning..

    Wonder what she/dept will come up this time.........hmmmm

    Probably start thinking about it this time next year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Not a hope, come hell rain or sun kids are back

    We've had plenty of the 'by hook or by crook' stuff regarding schools which eventually rang hollow. There's good reason why alternative plans were made for state exams. Nothing is set in stone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,797 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Is S&S back up and running from Monday?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Norma Foley has stated that current 5th year students will receive accomodations in the Leaving Cert of 2022 due to the impact of covid 19.

    Foley said she was "very aware" of the loss of in-person teaching that current 5th years have experienced. She acknowledged the work that had gone into remote teaching/learning..

    Wonder what she/dept will come up this time.........hmmmm

    Whilst I don't doubt the stress that has been caused for secondary level students there has barely been any mention of third level.

    I'm final year and there's been no acknowledgement of the difficulties facing us in what is the culmination of a lot of hard work. It's incredibly tough at times and really feels like nobody gives a damn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14 highland212


    Rosita wrote: »
    We've had plenty of the 'by hook or by crook' stuff regarding schools which eventually rang hollow. There's good reason why alternative plans were made for state exams. Nothing is set in stone.

    I don't think there will be another blanket closure of schools, not primary schools anyway. I do think there will be plenty of class and whole school closures over the next few weeks and months. Class closures has already started.

    There was already a serious supply issue with substitute teachers before Christmas and it's only going to be worse now. Principals are already under pressure looking for subs to cover teachers self-isolating or out because of pregnancy leave. I wouldn't be surprised if we see class or school closures due to staff shortages either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    Whilst I don't doubt the stress that has been caused for secondary level students there has barely been any mention of third level.

    I'm final year and there's been no acknowledgement of the difficulties facing us in what is the culmination of a lot of hard work. It's incredibly tough at times and really feels like nobody gives a damn.

    For sure. I know a girl who'll be done Second Year in May and will have not set foot in the college in 14 months at that stage. It's funny, if you're 17/18 it's all stress and mental health, and you "deserve an education" but if you are 19/20 you're on your own.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Rosita wrote: »
    For sure. I know a girl who'll be done Second Year in May and will have not set foot in the college in 14 months at that stage. It's funny, if you're 17/18 it's all stress and mental health, and you "deserve an education" but if you are 19/20 you're on your own.

    It just reinforces the feeling that, for many, the rush to get schools open is more to do with having a child minding service than ensuring education continues through the pandemic.

    The leaving cert can be retaken but if you **** up your degree it has serious repercussions. Our exams are overseen by the professional governing body responsible for the discipline. We have an extra hour and they are typed rather than handwritten. We are sitting exams in a way we are completely inexperienced with. Yet there are no concessions or concerns.

    Our final marks will decide where we do our masters, our employability or for those who fail whether they can even enter the profession. It's a joke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    Whilst I don't doubt the stress that has been caused for secondary level students there has barely been any mention of third level.

    I'm final year and there's been no acknowledgement of the difficulties facing us in what is the culmination of a lot of hard work. It's incredibly tough at times and really feels like nobody gives a damn.

    It's awful and I mentioned it myself earlier in thread, I'm a parent to a final year student too and there has been no focus at all on when or if you guys will be back.

    I feel for you, its like it's not even on governments radar despite Simon Harris heading up 3rd level.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Locotastic wrote: »
    It's awful and I mentioned it myself earlier in thread, I'm a parent to a final year student too and there has been no focus at all on when or if you guys will be back.

    I feel for you, its like it's not even on governments radar despite Simon Harris heading up 3rd level.

    Here's to your son or daughter getting the marks they want!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    It just reinforces the feeling that, for many, the rush to get schools open is more to do with having a child minding service than insuring education continues through the pandemic.

    The leaving cert can be retaken but if you **** up your degree it has serious repercussions. Our exams are overseen by the professional governing body responsible for the discipline. We have an extra hour and they are typed rather than handwritten. We are sitting exams in a way we are completely inexperienced with. Yet there are no concessions or concerns.

    Our final marks will decide where we do our masters, our employability or for those who fail whether they can even enter the profession. It's a joke.

    I feel very sorry for you.....why isn't the students union/students themselves petitioning government/simon harris to immediately do something about this situation? maybe they have idk...

    Problem is you have Simon Harris who is Minister of third level education who is just as inapt as Norma Foley ......Simon Harris doesn't seem to know what Minister he is...ie health/or whatever....good luck


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    Here's to your son or daughter getting the marks they want!

    And you too!

    It very hard for students and people in their early 20s, I think they have had to sacrifice a lot and have been really impacted by everything.

    Hopefully a return soon to the life that college students should be living and all of the experiences that go along with that too :) travelling, festivals, socialising again soon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    
    
    
    Rosita wrote: »
    For sure. I know a girl who'll be done Second Year in May and will have not set foot in the college in 14 months at that stage. It's funny, if you're 17/18 it's all stress and mental health, and you "deserve an education" but if you are 19/20 you're on your own.

    There are !7/18 year olds in Uni...my daughter went to ucd @17....I feel for all students at the moment....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Locotastic wrote: »
    And you too!

    It very hard for students and people in their early 20s, I think they have had to sacrifice a lot and have been really impacted by everything.

    Hopefully a return soon to the life that college students should be living and all of the experiences that go along with that too :) travelling, festivals, socialising again soon.

    It's tough alright but hopefully we're getting close to the end. It'll be great when we can return to normality. Even simple things like going out for a meal or to the cinema will feel good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    I feel very sorry for you.....why isn't the students union/students themselves petitioning government/simon harris to immediately do something about this situation? maybe they have idk...

    Problem is you have Simon Harris who is Minister of third level education who is just as inapt as Norma Foley ......Simon Harris doesn't seem to know what Minister he is...ie health/or whatever....good luck

    Cheers.

    The SU is a vehicle for self promotion. The only thing they are concerned with is padding their cv's. I imagine most unions are like that considering the national union has been very quiet.

    As for Harris, he thought there were 18 previous covids. I wouldn't trust him to butter toast.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    
    
    There are !7/18 year olds in Uni...my daughter went to ucd @17....I feel for all students at the moment....

    Less and less of them every year. Most kids are 13 or just shy of it starting secondary and then I think the majority take the six year secondary cycle so would be 19 or thereabouts starting 3rd level.

    Having said that, two of my friends went to UCD to become vets as 16 yr olds.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Are we still going with schools are safe here?

    The UK are testing school children twice a week. There must be a reason for all that testing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Are we still going with schools are safe here?

    The UK are testing school children twice a week. There must be a reason for all that testing?

    Have they released results of their testing yet?

    Edit: sorry I went to research myself and just realised they are only starting this. They are testing everyone in the household from what I read not just the children.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Is S&S back up and running from Monday?

    For secondary no. It’s paid supervision that is on offer.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭combat14


    looks like it is not just here - this new uk variant seems to be causing havoc across the continent - interesting to note issue in germany with covid and school kids .........


    Covid-19 pandemic: Italy to shut shops and schools amid infection spike


    Elsewhere, Bulgaria, Denmark and Norway have all paused the use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine over fears it causes blood clots.

    Poland registered nearly 21,049 new daily cases on Saturday - the highest number since November

    Germany reported a rapid rise in infections among schoolchildren, with new Covid variants blamed


    In France, the number of patients in intensive care units exceeded 4,000 - the highest figure for more than three months. Some patients are being flown across the country to find available beds. The government has not ruled out more regional lockdowns

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56382608


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    combat14 wrote: »
    looks like it is not just here - this new uk variant seems to be causing havoc across the continent - interesting to note issue in germany with covid and school kids .........


    Covid-19 pandemic: Italy to shut shops and schools amid infection spike


    Elsewhere, Bulgaria, Denmark and Norway have all paused the use of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine over fears it causes blood clots.

    Poland registered nearly 21,049 new daily cases on Saturday - the highest number since November

    Germany reported a rapid rise in infections among schoolchildren, with new Covid variants blamed


    In France, the number of patients in intensive care units exceeded 4,000 - the highest figure for more than three months. Some patients are being flown across the country to find available beds. The government has not ruled out more regional lockdowns

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56382608

    Why Michael Martin is thinking about opening up other activities re April 5th is beyond words...in view of the fact 90% of the new variant here is the UK ..
    Delay on vaccines....All this Government seems to be good for is making promises it clearly can't keep...
    Re: German schools and the UK variant ...it's been reported that the UK variant was accountable for the large amount of children infected under 15 and as there is no vaccine available /tested yet for this age group it seems NPHET will really have to monitor the situation here in view of the fact they are sending so young children back to school .....16 deaths rip today ...and 543 new cases...still more than last november..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    Why Michael Martin is thinking about opening up other activities re April 5th is beyond words...in view of the fact 90% of the new variant here is the UK ..
    Delay on vaccines....All this Government seems to be good for is making promises it clearly can't keep...
    Re: German schools and the UK variant ...it's been reported that the UK variant was accountable for the large amount of children infected under 15 and as there is no vaccine available /tested yet for this age group it seems NPHET will really have to monitor the situation here in view of the fact they are sending so young children back to school .....16 deaths rip today ...and 543 new cases...still more than last november..

    Short firebreaker lockdowns should not turn into months long lockdowns and what you are seeing is people growing weary and losing fear of the virus.

    We're 10 weeks into this lockdown, I've read that we've the longest lockdowns worldwide. 13000 fines for breach of guidelines handed out and that's only the people who are being caught.

    St Patrick's Day protests already planned, people have had enough. We don't see enough progress being made with vaccines.

    The government has lost cooperation of the public, they know that. They won't open much else come April, nor have they said that they will, more doom and gloom talking about maybe May or June. People don't want to hear that any more.

    As is a regular occurance, 3 of today's deaths were from March. The others from Jan and Feb, we can't even trust the figures to indicate where we are or how we're progressing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭penny piper


    Locotastic wrote: »
    Short firebreaker lockdowns should not turn into months long lockdowns and what you are seeing is people growing weary and losing fear of the virus.

    We're 10 weeks into this lockdown, I've read that we've the longest lockdowns worldwide. 13000 fines for breach of guidelines handed out and that's only the people who are being caught.

    St Patrick's Day protests already planned, people have had enough. We don't see enough progress being made with vaccines.

    The government has lost cooperation of the public, they know that. They won't open much else come April, nor have they said that they will, more doom and gloom talking about maybe May or June. People don't want to hear that any more.

    As is a regular occurance, 3 of today's deaths were from March. The others from Jan and Feb, we can't even trust the figures to indicate where we are or how we're progressing.

    I think people are loosing fear of the virus because of how the Government has dealt with it....The very fact that they do not stress enough how dangerous this new uk variant can be ...how highly transmissible...how dangerous it is to children /adults.....Michael Martin...Leo Varadkar...Eamonn Ryan..such a shambles of a government....Not one good Leader of a government amongst the three of them..
    The very idea of people planning protests is abhorrent to me when so many people are actually doing what is asked of them...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 754 ✭✭✭Locotastic


    The very idea of people planning protests is abhorrent to me when so many people are actually doing what is asked of them...

    You can see why people lose motivation, between protests, large funerals/weddings and people travelling into the country as they please.

    Just shows how little control the government have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 160 ✭✭Zaney


    Locotastic wrote: »
    You can see why people lose motivation, between protests, large funerals/weddings and people travelling into the country as they please.

    Just shows how little control the government have.

    Definitely. The solidarity is lost. I went for a walk today and came across numerous groups socialising, young, old and everything in between. Queues for takeaways with no 2m discipline, flower shops doing a strong business ahead of Mother’s Day. And this is in the open, God knows what is going on behind closed doors. Traffic is definitely higher than the first lockdown at all hours of the day and night.

    It’s a lockdown in name only.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I think people are loosing fear of the virus because of how the Government has dealt with it....The very fact that they do not stress enough how dangerous this new uk variant can be ...how highly transmissible...how dangerous it is to children /adults.....Michael Martin...Leo Varadkar...Eamonn Ryan..such a shambles of a government....Not one good Leader of a government amongst the three of them..
    The very idea of people planning protests is abhorrent to me when so many people are actually doing what is asked of them...

    I'm no fan of FG and loath the criminal scum in FF but they have done an alright job and are making the best of the vaccine program.

    It's a better stab at it than nearly all others in the Western world have taken.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    I found the article about the German government covering up a huge incident with blatant school transmission.

    Last year, the same article read as follows:
    Corona study suppressed by education authorities
    A single person caused a mass infection at the Hamburg school

    Almost 40 people infected with corona at the Heinrich Hertz School in Hamburg: When this became known in September, it was one of the first major outbreaks at a school in Germany. At the time, the authorities said: Many pupils had been infected outside of school. But now it turns out: That was not true. On the contrary, the outbreak is predominantly due to a person through whom the coronavirus then spread at school.

    This emerges from information from the Hamburg labor, social and health authorities, which was published shortly before Christmas on the “Ask the State” platform (the request can be found here). Accordingly, the Heinrich Pette Institute (HPI) and the Eppendorf University Hospital, in cooperation with the Hamburg-Nord Health Department, investigated the outbreak at the Heinrich Hertz School, a district school from the 5th grade.

    "Most likely due to a source of infection"

    As a result, the researchers gained the following findings, it continues: “Infections / transmissions took place in school.” A large number of identical genome sequences were identified in the examined and usable samples. “Therefore, the vast majority of transmissions are most likely due to a single source of infection. The possibility that the outbreak results from independent entries can be ruled out with a probability bordering on certainty. "

    When asked on Monday, Adam Grundhoff, the virologist responsible at HPI, added that the result was also so clear because the genome signature in question had not yet appeared in Hamburg at the time: "So this is due to a source."

    In total, “under 30” cases could be reconstructed, which practically all had this genome signature. However, he does not assume that all outbreaks in schools run like this: "That is certainly more heterogeneous." It is planned to incorporate the analysis into a larger study. The analysis was finished at the beginning of October, but he could not say when the results were communicated by the health department.

    Politically explosive result
    The result of the analysis is politically explosive not only because it contradicts the culture ministers' mantra that schools are not the drivers of infection in the pandemic.

    At the beginning of January, the Conference of Ministers of Education and Cultural Affairs wants to discuss how schools should continue after the lockdown. So far it looks as if the KMK is not planning to change its strategy and continues to rely on the fastest possible resumption of normal operation without major protective measures, apart from ventilation. The study should make that more difficult.

    The study could also be tricky for Hamburg's school senator Ties Rabe (SPD). Because the impression arises that Rabe's school board wanted to suppress the publication of the study.

    Their results were only made public now because a user asked about them on “Ask the State”, citing the Hamburg Transparency Act. It was not the school authority that was asked to answer, but the health authority.

    [If you want to have all the latest developments on the coronavirus pandemic live on your mobile phone, we recommend our app, which you can download here for Apple and Android devices ]

    Previously, the school authorities had dismissed the results of the study as not relevant - namely in an article in "Die Zeit", in which genome sequencing was reported for the first time.

    The school board saw "no relevant results" in October
    “Zeit” had asked the school authorities for the results of the study in vain. "Unfortunately, we did not find any relevant findings from which meaningful school protective measures could be derived," is quoted in the article Peter Albrecht, spokesman for Ties Rabe. Precise results would have to be requested from the health department, which was also silent.

    According to "Zeit", Rabe's spokesman announced this at the end of October (the article itself was only published in mid-December). The school authorities must have known about the study and its results by the end of October.

    Did the Senator Deceive the Public?
    If so, the questions not only arise why the school authorities classified the findings as "not relevant" and why they have not published the results of their own accord since then.

    Senator Rabe would also have deceived the public when he presented his own data on the infection situation in schools in mid-November . At that time, Rabe put forward the thesis that “the risk of infection outside of school is much higher”.

    The genome sequencing - the transmissions within the school in question in numerous cases - were not mentioned at the press conference. Rabe rather spoke of the fact that there were 80 of the 372 documented cases in which “perhaps” the school was the site of infection. With everyone else, you can rule that out anyway. The ministers of education then repeatedly referred to these figures when it came to classifying the school as safe.

    Representation of the school authority is difficult to understand
    An inquiry from the Tagesspiegel to the school authorities about the timing and assessment of Senator Ties Rabe's security situation at the schools initially remained unanswered on Monday morning.

    Instead, a spokeswoman referred to a press release on Sunday that described the results that have now become known as “good news”.

    This assessment, which seems strange at first glance, was justified as follows: The genome sequencing indicated that 25 of the 39 infections could have happened in the Heinrich Hertz School during the outbreak. However, the school authorities assumed 34 in their calculation in November, so the proportion of total infections in schools has even decreased.

    This representation is difficult to check - because the data basis for the calculation by the school authorities cannot be found in writing anywhere. At the press conference at the time, as I said, the outbreak at the Heinrich Hertz School was not mentioned, so it is not clear how Senator Rabe came up with the sum of the infections that “maybe” took place within a school.

    School authorities do not want final results until the end of November
    On Monday afternoon, the school authorities announced that the "final results" of the HPI analysis had only been submitted by the health authority to the school authority on November 24th. The school authorities have never questioned the fact of the school-internal infections "in principle and specifically at the Heinrich-Hertz-Schule", but presented in September that “there were external and internal infections at the Heinrich-Hertz-Schule”.

    In the meantime, the authority also considers the results of the analysis to be "relevant", it continues. However, the study "does not allow any conclusions to be drawn as to why there were a large number of internal school infections at this one school, while there were no internal transmissions at 151 other schools despite individual children with corona disease," said a spokeswoman: "In relation to We need further studies on this important question. " That is also the opinion of the senator. He also emphasized that "schools are safe places in relation to other areas of life". He sees himself there "in agreement with RKI and Leopoldina.

    You can get a Google translation of the current article linked above which contains updates, or I'll post the current text here with the updates of the situation since. Needless to say, the findings of the report are shocking. The situation basically spells out the attitude of governments towards the public and especially the risk they're willing to take around children so that workers can have childminding and can go slave away for the day again.

    Reopening primary schools in full with no reduced class sizes or further mitigation measures is absolutely disastrous and has been disastrous in all countries that have attempted it. I hope everyone who is complicit in this massive gamble we're taking tomorrow is not disappointed by the inevitable outcome because the odds are not in our favour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,791 ✭✭✭plodder


    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0314/1203878-coronavirus-ireland/
    That marked the fifth day in a row that the five-day moving average, which charts the progress of the disease while smoothing out daily and weekend fluctuations, had increased.

    The figures also showed that the 73% of the new cases were in people aged under 45 and the median age of those newly diagnosed was 29.
    Has to be related to schools.

    If they are serious about keeping them open I think they are going to have to vaccinate teachers asap.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    plodder wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0314/1203878-coronavirus-ireland/


    Has to be related to schools.

    If they are serious about keeping them open I think they are going to have to vaccinate teachers asap.

    Not sure why you say that. The epidemiology shows the data. Available here.

    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/

    0 clusters associated with schools. All clusters are identified in the reports there.

    Of the 340 cases currently in hospital, approximately 100 are members of the travelling community. This seems to be a very large proportion of our national infection rate at the moment.


    Primary school reopening has had zero effect so far. Good protocols in place, well managed.


This discussion has been closed.
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