Should Wexford Waterford line reopen?

Isambard · 11-03-2021 7:40pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Aside from the journey time, lets be realistic here - there isn't the demand in any of those places for a train service.
I completely get the romantic notion of hopping on the train in Wellington Bridge and getting off in Waterford, but lets be real here - there just isn't the population size to justify it.
In fact, I'd probably wonder if there is the demand for even a couple of buses a day. Is there?

well the one advantage the train had on this line was that the line was far more direct than the road... one side of a triangle rather than two. However now the new New Ross bridge is open, that advantage has been eroded a good bit.

bk · 11-03-2021 8:03pm

ohographite wrote: »

I accept that a few villages with a combined population of 1000-2000 people are unlikely to generate enough travel demand for a railway to make sense(by make sense, I mean reduce greenhouse gas emissions).

The environmental argument is very weak with this.

An old Diesel train is certainly not particularly green. I know the argument is that on a per passenger basis it is less polluting. And that would certainly be true on a packed commuter train heading into Dublin/Cork in the morning peak.

But when you start talking about rural lines with very low demand and these old Diesel engines running up and down the tracks mostly carrying air, they stop looking green.

A modern Euro 6 engined coach, that better fits the demand there would be a lot greener then trains like this.

If you are really serious about the environment, then you could look to Hydrogen or EV powered coaches, which would be zero emission. Say 2 million, a fraction of what you want to spend on this would buy you a nice fleet of 4 or 5 EV or Hydrogen coaches to run on the route.

riddlinrussell · 11-03-2021 9:01pm

ohographite wrote: »

If Waterford-Rosslare is reopened now, it will cost less than it would if it is done in 15 years time.
I know that since September, Irish Rail have downgraded the maintenance they are giving to the Waterford-Rosslare line. I am not sure how much it cost to maintain the line from the closure in 2010 until then, so I'm wondering, if the line maintenance was upgraded back to what it had from 2010 to 2020, and continued for the next 15 years, would it still be much more expensive to reopen, or would the maintenance make cost of reopening it stay the same as it is now, for those 15 years?

I'm sorry that I have asked you a very complicated question, and I probably haven't explained it well either.

No the question makes sense, I think you need to think like the government to see how the financials will be considered. Your point about it costing less now to reopen than in 15 years is entirely correct, but predicated on the concept that they would want to reopen it in 15 years (or ever).

Let's assume however that they did want to look at the costs of opening it in 15 years/now, the line isn't going to be profit making for a long time, if ever, so the main price consideration would be: opening cost + 15 year operating cost vs estimated opening cost in 15 years.

Not to pick at a sore spot, but assume scenario is a ballybrophy situation, 15x operating costs for that line plus 100 million to reopen in a decent state now against maybe 300 million to open in 15 years (ignoring inflation etc)

I'm sure someone could provide more accurate data than that, but when it comes down to it, the cost consideration is going to be: cost of reopening + operation for 15 years, vs cost of turning into a greenway and maintaining for 15 years. Even in 15 years I just cant see this line running unless theres been such a massive shift in travel patterns that it's not possible to anticipate.

PhilOssophy · 11-03-2021 9:47pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

@ nohographite

You're wasting your time as the anti-rail posters keep twisting the discussion to being about the local potential of the route in exactly the same way that they have trashed the reopening of the Athenry/Claremorris to being about commuting between Tuam and Galway.

That's a ridiculous post. If you don't have a decent commuter base to justify a line, it makes even less sense. Because for every commuter who makes 10+ journeys a week and pays their weekly/monthly/annual ticket (and thus bankrolls the line), there will be 1 journey made by somebody else (probably on a free travel pass).

If you can't even justify the argument based on financials of commuting, there is no point going any further. Because you could probably drive the people in a people carrier and save money, environment and 100m in tax payer money which could be spent far better.

In addition, the journey time which needs to be considered is door-to-door - so if you have to drive into Wellingtonbridge, get this train, get to Waterford, walk 15-20 minutes to your workplace (the train station in Waterford is not that well located to many businesses) then the total journey time becomes ridiculous, and if people can drive quicker there is absolutely no way it makes sense.

I would also fully believe that the spin-offs from a decent greenway might be far better for these villages - if people need to stop for food, coffee, etc in these small towns it would give these towns a lift. It'd give them more of a lift than an empty train passing through them every day. If the greenway could be extended to link up with the Waterford Greenway, then you are really on to something.

I fully support the green agenda and support rail in the right locations (e.g. where proper planning for residential density existed to justify it), but it can't make no economic sense.

Anyway I've probably contributed all I can to the thread so I'll bow out now.

11-03-2021 10:29pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

@ nohographite

You're wasting your time as the anti-rail posters keep twisting the discussion to being about the local potential of the route in exactly the same way that they have trashed the reopening of the Athenry/Claremorris to being about commuting between Tuam and Galway.

Athenry/Claremorris, lol, no such route has been reviewed for reopening by any govt since the line closed in 1976. If you wish to discuss further I'll see you over on the appropriate thread.

Smart investment in higher benefit projects does not equal anti-rail. That this needs to be explained over and over and over indicates that there's far too much emotion being attached to these old lines and little logic. 100 million spent on upgrading existing intercity lines will be far more beneficial by literally every measurable metric than this silliness

As for the line in question here, lets bring some numbers into this

Bridgetown, 400+ population
Campile, 400+ population
Wellington Bridge, 500+ population

Do does populations justify the spend? No

I think this has been summed up appropriately with the following response

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think what it boils down to, is that regardless of it being 'on the agenda' or not, it is going to be absolute dead last in terms of rail prioritisation for an exceedingly long time. Simply far too many things need done to the network that offer better returns or opportunity cost.

Rail use getting to the point of renewed viability of reopening this line you'd be at the level of potentially bringing rail back to Donegal, A Dublin-Derry line via Enniskillen and Omagh etc.

You can make whatever emotive arguments you wish, use whatever numbers you want to try make your case, but they will fail a standard CBA every.single.time.

Del.Monte · 12-03-2021 12:01am

The Athenry/Claremorris line did not close in 1976 and this would seem to contradict your other assertion about no government considering the section for reopening: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/1174d-review-of-western-rail-corridor-phases-2-and-3-athenry-to-claremorris/

As for returning to the populations of Bridgetown etc. this is you attempting again to obfuscate the issue. The Ennis/Athenry section was not reopened to cater for the populations of Ardrahan and Craughwell but to facilitate travel between Limerick, Ennis and Galway. In the same vein, the reopening of Rosslare Strand/Waterford would facilitate a whole range of travel options as well as carrying some shoppers/school kids etc. locally.

I don't really see where you're coming from apart from seeming to enjoying an argument. I want to see the railway reopened because I used to use it and found it convenient even with the diabolical service that pertained. I want to see it developed to its full potential. You seem to be against this line, and others, to no purpose except to save money - in the event of which the government won't be sending any of it back to you personally.

jackofalltrades · 12-03-2021 12:23am

ohographite wrote: »

I am not in support of all the stations which were between Waterford and Rosslare reopening.

So not only do you want to rob the people of South Wexford of a great local amenity that could be of tremendous use to them.
Now you want to tell some of them that the train line to be reinstated instead isn't even going to serve them anymore

end of the road · 12-03-2021 12:54am

Isambard wrote: »

well the one advantage the train had on this line was that the line was far more direct than the road... one side of a triangle rather than two. However now the new New Ross bridge is open, that advantage has been eroded a good bit.

it was eroded a bit at the start, but not now.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I would also fully believe that the spin-offs from a decent greenway might be far better for these villages - if people need to stop for food, coffee, etc in these small towns it would give these towns a lift. It'd give them more of a lift than an empty train passing through them every day. If the greenway could be extended to link up with the Waterford Greenway, then you are really on to something.

i'm sorry but there will be nobody stopping in places like wellingtonbridge, bridgetown or campile for food and coffee, it's just not going to happen, it's not going to be a waterford repeat and there will be no uplift or nothing.
there would have to be deviations at either end anyway, which while not so much of an issue, when we look at it and all the maintenence and costs that would be required, it just seems pointless for what would be in reality, an insult and subpar product.
there are other routes around the county which would be able to link up what the county actually does have to offer, which is a hell of a lot in reality, and it is that what the county deserves, and not this subpar one.

PhilOssophy · 12-03-2021 10:00am

Del.Monte wrote: »

As for returning to the populations of Bridgetown etc. this is you attempting again to obfuscate the issue. The Ennis/Athenry section was not reopened to cater for the populations of Ardrahan and Craughwell but to facilitate travel between Limerick, Ennis and Galway. In the same vein, the reopening of Rosslare Strand/Waterford would facilitate a whole range of travel options as well as carrying some shoppers/school kids etc. locally.

I don't really see where you're coming from apart from seeming to enjoying an argument. I want to see the railway reopened because I used to use it and found it convenient even with the diabolical service that pertained. I want to see it developed to its full potential. You seem to be against this line, and others, to no purpose except to save money - in the event of which the government won't be sending any of it back to you personally.

Would the people of Rosslare who want to use the train not get the current service into Wexford for the purpose of shopping?

Its not about saving money - its about saving money waste, while the government might not send any money back to any of us personally they might use the money instead to invest in services and facilities which are needed, not some ghost train to carry a car load of people at enormous cost.

end of the road wrote: »

i'm sorry but there will be nobody stopping in places like wellingtonbridge, bridgetown or campile for food and coffee, it's just not going to happen, it's not going to be a waterford repeat and there will be no uplift or nothing.
there would have to be deviations at either end anyway, which while not so much of an issue, when we look at it and all the maintenence and costs that would be required, it just seems pointless for what would be in reality, an insult and subpar product.

Do people who do cycling holidays not stop in local towns/villages for coffee or lunch? I have done greenway holidays before and can absolutely guarantee you that you are wrong. Even with deviations at the end, with some proper planning it could be liked up to tourist traps like Hook Head, Duncannon, etc. It'd be 100m better spent on greenways, facilities and cycle tracks than on an empty train to cost a fortune every day, that is for sure.

Sam Russell · 12-03-2021 10:03am

Mod: Can we stop referring to posters as anti-this or anti-that.

If posters are against some aspect, then that is OK and accept it. They are entitled to hold such views, and generalising their views to be anti- just because you are pro- is unfair.

Do not attack the poster.

end of the road · 12-03-2021 4:10pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Would the people of Rosslare who want to use the train not get the current service into Wexford for the purpose of shopping?

Its not about saving money - its about saving money waste, while the government might not send any money back to any of us personally they might use the money instead to invest in services and facilities which are needed, not some ghost train to carry a car load of people at enormous cost.

they wouldn't be investing it in a ghost train that would carry a car load in this case, as the well put together business case by south east on track shows.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Do people who do cycling holidays not stop in local towns/villages for coffee or lunch? I have done greenway holidays before and can absolutely guarantee you that you are wrong. Even with deviations at the end, with some proper planning it could be liked up to tourist traps like Hook Head, Duncannon, etc. It'd be 100m better spent on greenways, facilities and cycle tracks than on an empty train to cost a fortune every day, that is for sure.

there would b no empty train to cost a fortune, so you may as well dispence with that idea as the very well put together business case by southeast on track shows that there would be no ghost train.
i'm telling you as someone who actually knows the areas being discussed that this particular greenway has nothing going for it, that's it, linking it up to any other greenways will not change that.
anyone stopping for food will be looking for somewhere worth while stopping, and that is on the greenways linking the actual sites of interest.
if you want actual greenways in the county then get behind those instead of supporting an expensive but subpar one, because the county deserves much better then this nothing to offer greenway.

Working class heroes · 12-03-2021 4:38pm

end of the road wrote: »

they wouldn't be investing it in a ghost train that would carry a car load in this case, as the well put together business case by south east on track shows.

there would b no empty train to cost a fortune, so you may as well dispence with that idea as the very well put together business case by southeast on track shows that there would be no ghost train.
i'm telling you as someone who actually knows the areas being discussed that this particular greenway has nothing going for it, that's it, linking it up to any other greenways will not change that.
anyone stopping for food will be looking for somewhere worth while stopping, and that is on the greenways linking the actual sites of interest.
if you want actual greenways in the county then get behind those instead of supporting an expensive but subpar one, because the county deserves much better then this nothing to offer greenway.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Also that “well thought out business case” you mention is nothing but a train enthusiasts wet dream.
It’s not happening, get over it and move on.

riddlinrussell · 12-03-2021 5:06pm

end of the road wrote: »

they wouldn't be investing it in a ghost train that would carry a car load in this case, as the well put together business case by south east on track shows.

there would b no empty train to cost a fortune, so you may as well dispence with that idea as the very well put together business case by southeast on track shows that there would be no ghost train.
i'm telling you as someone who actually knows the areas being discussed that this particular greenway has nothing going for it, that's it, linking it up to any other greenways will not change that.
anyone stopping for food will be looking for somewhere worth while stopping, and that is on the greenways linking the actual sites of interest.
if you want actual greenways in the county then get behind those instead of supporting an expensive but subpar one, because the county deserves much better then this nothing to offer greenway.

I am somewhat confused by the disconnect that there's a case for the railway but no case for the greenway.

The 'selling point' of many greenways may be tourism, but its been borne out numerous times that those that benefit are primarily locals gaining improved links for walking and cycling.

If the railway will be well used (As per SEoT) then why would the greenway not be well used? If the 'most viable' restoration of the route would be direct Wexford to Waterford with a single stop mid line (As per ohographite) The a greenway would be more beneficial to those towns whose stations are not restored surely?

Basing things on my own cycle commute, Campile, Ballycullane and Wellingtonbridge are all within the same radius from Waterford, so it would make Waterford a 'feasible' commute from those towns, and the same the other way to Rosslare. I'm not saying there would be many takers for that, but the possibility exists.

PhilOssophy · 13-03-2021 10:42am

end of the road wrote: »

they wouldn't be investing it in a ghost train that would carry a car load in this case, as the well put together business case by south east on track shows.

there would b no empty train to cost a fortune, so you may as well dispence with that idea as the very well put together business case by southeast on track shows that there would be no ghost train.
i'm telling you as someone who actually knows the areas being discussed that this particular greenway has nothing going for it, that's it, linking it up to any other greenways will not change that.
anyone stopping for food will be looking for somewhere worth while stopping, and that is on the greenways linking the actual sites of interest.
if you want actual greenways in the county then get behind those instead of supporting an expensive but subpar one, because the county deserves much better then this nothing to offer greenway.

You do know you can put anything in a business case, right? There might be a world of difference between actual usage and estimated usage. If there was a business case for the line, where were these users 10 years ago when the line was open? Getting (paying) bums on seats on a train is a totally different proposition to quoting population figures.

I would have expected people to be enthusiastic about a greenway which might encourage people to our lovely beaches from another greenway? Also I have a relation in England who has a coffee shop in a remote part where cycling holidays are common - he employs 5-6 people in a coffee shop all year round. The town is probably the size of Campile and in a remote location. So if you really think there's no market for such an enterprise, I think you might be underestimating the potential here.

Working class heroes wrote: »

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Also that “well thought out business case” you mention is nothing but a train enthusiasts wet dream.
It’s not happening, get over it and move on.

Agree.

end of the road · 13-03-2021 1:36pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

You do know you can put anything in a business case, right? There might be a world of difference between actual usage and estimated usage. If there was a business case for the line, where were these users 10 years ago when the line was open? Getting (paying) bums on seats on a train is a totally different proposition to quoting population figures.

I would have expected people to be enthusiastic about a greenway which might encourage people to our lovely beaches from another greenway? Also I have a relation in England who has a coffee shop in a remote part where cycling holidays are common - he employs 5-6 people in a coffee shop all year round. The town is probably the size of Campile and in a remote location. So if you really think there's no market for such an enterprise, I think you might be underestimating the potential here.

Agree.

where were the extra users 11 years ago?
well, they were in their cars because the service was well, CIE's best, as in barely existant.
anyway, many had thought the line stopped operating years ago, which says it all, that the operator made no actual effort.
there is a market for a high quality, actual greenway, which is what i and others are looking for.
that involves interlinking greenways to the actual sites of interested and all else, which can then link up to the new ross one so people can go on further.
the south wexford greenway just doesn't cut it and that is why it should and will be opposed regardless of any decision over the railway, because we deserve a better greenway then that.

ohographite · 13-03-2021 3:46pm

jackofalltrades wrote: »

So not only do you want to rob the people of South Wexford of a great local amenity that could be of tremendous use to them.
Now you want to tell some of them that the train line to be reinstated instead isn't even going to serve them anymore

A railway doesn't need to have a station in every village it passes through. All over the country there are villages with an operational railway running through them, but no station in them. I suggested the reopening of Bridgetown station and Ballycullane station, since the latter is about 10km from both Campile and Wellingtonbridge, meaning that people from Campile or Wellingtonbridge could drive to Ballycullane if they want to take the train. I know it is less good than having a train station in your village, but a station in Ballycullane still serves Wellingtonbridge and Campile to a certain extent.

Del.Monte · 13-03-2021 7:09pm

ohographite wrote: »

A railway doesn't need to have a station in every village it passes through. All over the country there are villages with an operational railway running through them, but no station in them. I suggested the reopening of Bridgetown station and Ballycullane station, since the latter is about 10km from both Campile and Wellingtonbridge, meaning that people from Campile or Wellingtonbridge could drive to Ballycullane if they want to take the train. I know it is less good than having a train station in your village, but a station in Ballycullane still serves Wellingtonbridge and Campile to a certain extent.

Starting to tinker with which stations you reopen only makes your case look weaker and is the sort of nonsense that CIE have been at for years. When the sundries freight service on the South Wexford line was withdrawn the goods were then delivered by road from Wexford - when the sundries service was withdrawn from the Connolly/Wexford/Line the traffic was handled from Bagenalstown or Carlow (can't remember which) and by the time they had finished there was no traffic left - what a surprise.

PhilOssophy · 14-03-2021 2:52pm

end of the road wrote: »

where were the extra users 11 years ago?
well, they were in their cars because the service was well, CIE's best, as in barely existant.
anyway, many had thought the line stopped operating years ago, which says it all, that the operator made no actual effort.
there is a market for a high quality, actual greenway, which is what i and others are looking for.
that involves interlinking greenways to the actual sites of interested and all else, which can then link up to the new ross one so people can go on further.
the south wexford greenway just doesn't cut it and that is why it should and will be opposed regardless of any decision over the railway, because we deserve a better greenway then that.

Well I'll put it to you that the service was non-existant because the demand for the service was non-existant.

ohographite wrote: »

A railway doesn't need to have a station in every village it passes through. All over the country there are villages with an operational railway running through them, but no station in them. I suggested the reopening of Bridgetown station and Ballycullane station, since the latter is about 10km from both Campile and Wellingtonbridge, meaning that people from Campile or Wellingtonbridge could drive to Ballycullane if they want to take the train. I know it is less good than having a train station in your village, but a station in Ballycullane still serves Wellingtonbridge and Campile to a certain extent.

By the time they have driven to there and got the train, they could be in either Wexford or Waterford, especially is in Waterford they need to go somewhere other than the train station because it isn't near anything. Nobody is going to get into their car, drive 10km to get a train when their destination is another 15-20 minutes drive away.

Do you lads seriously think that this is how 100m + the annual operational bill (which will be significant because it won't be anything other than a money pit) is the best way to spend this money in Wexford? Imagine what that money could do if we divided it 25m between Wexford/New Ross/Enniscorthy/Gorey or if we put it in to the many other services for both physical and mental health or special needs assistants in our schools and the like?

I'm going to unfollow now but I think youse lads are deluded if you think there is either the demand or the business case for this. If I saw our hard earned money being spent on this, when it would be better spent upgrading the Rosslare-Dublin line (particularly north of Gorey where there might be demand for the service) I would be very disappointed in our Dept of Transport.

ohographite · 14-03-2021 3:22pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Well I'll put it to you that the service was non-existant because the demand for the service was non-existant.

By the time they have driven to there and got the train, they could be in either Wexford or Waterford, especially is in Waterford they need to go somewhere other than the train station because it isn't near anything. Nobody is going to get into their car, drive 10km to get a train when their destination is another 15-20 minutes drive away.

Do you lads seriously think that this is how 100m + the annual operational bill (which will be significant because it won't be anything other than a money pit) is the best way to spend this money in Wexford? Imagine what that money could do if we divided it 25m between Wexford/New Ross/Enniscorthy/Gorey or if we put it in to the many other services for both physical and mental health or special needs assistants in our schools and the like?

I'm going to unfollow now but I think youse lads are deluded if you think there is either the demand or the business case for this. If I saw our hard earned money being spent on this, when it would be better spent upgrading the Rosslare-Dublin line (particularly north of Gorey where there might be demand for the service) I would be very disappointed in our Dept of Transport.

I bet that the railway could have attracted much higher demand if it had had a better service when it was open.
I know some people who drive from their villages to train stations, and take the train from there.
I do not like being referred to as deluded.

end of the road · 14-03-2021 3:42pm

ohographite wrote: »

I bet that the railway could have attracted much higher demand if it had had a better service when it was open.
I know some people who drive from their villages to train stations, and take the train from there.
I do not like being referred to as deluded.

100% correct.

end of the road · 14-03-2021 3:51pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Well By the time they have driven to there and got the train, they could be in either Wexford or Waterford, especially is in Waterford they need to go somewhere other than the train station because it isn't near anything. Nobody is going to get into their car, drive 10km to get a train when their destination is another 15-20 minutes drive away.

you obviously haven't driven to waterford from wexford.
you would need to be hugely breaking the speed limit to get there in 20 minutes.

Do you lads seriously think that this is how 100m + the annual operational bill (which will be significant because it won't be anything other than a money pit) is the best way to spend this money in Wexford? Imagine what that money could do if we divided it 25m between Wexford/New Ross/Enniscorthy/Gorey or if we put it in to the many other services for both physical and mental health or special needs assistants in our schools and the like?

I'm going to unfollow now but I think youse lads are deluded if you think there is either the demand or the business case for this. If I saw our hard earned money being spent on this, when it would be better spent upgrading the Rosslare-Dublin line (particularly north of Gorey where there might be demand for the service) I would be very disappointed in our Dept of Transport.

there is plenty of money for services such as mental health etc, money which comes from another budget and has nothing to do with the transport budget, so whether this line would reopen or not would make not a jot of difference to anything outside it.

Working class heroes · 14-03-2021 10:51pm

ohographite wrote: »

I bet that the railway could have attracted much higher demand if it had had a better service when it was open.
I know some people who drive from their villages to train stations, and take the train from there.
I do not like being referred to as deluded.

You might not be deluded, but this post is.

Working class heroes · 14-03-2021 10:54pm

end of the road wrote: »

there is plenty of money for services such as mental health etc, money which comes from another budget and has nothing to do with the transport budget, so whether this line would reopen or not would make not a jot of difference to anything outside it.

Nonsense, again.

end of the road · 14-03-2021 11:18pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

You might not be deluded, but this post is.

it's not.
it's a good and correct post.

Working class heroes wrote: »

Nonsense, again.

it's not.
money for health services comes from the health budget, money for transport comes from the transport budget.
so a particular transport project not happening does nothing for mental health or other services, ergo the poster is incorrect when he states the money could be put into mental health services.

Working class heroes · 15-03-2021 7:53am

end of the road wrote: »

it's not.
it's a good and correct post.

it's not.
money for health services comes from the health budget, money for transport comes from the transport budget.
so a particular transport project not happening does nothing for mental health or other services, ergo the poster is incorrect when he states the money could be put into mental health services.

No, it’s delusional pie in the sky, romantic nonsense.

Your post is also delusional. Your theory/knowledge on budgets is childish and laughable at best.

ncounties · 15-03-2021 8:46am

Working class heroes wrote: »

No, it’s delusional pie in the sky, romantic nonsense.

Your post is also delusional. Your theory/knowledge on budgets is childish and laughable at best.

Moderators - Is this a thread to discuss rail, or for Working Class Heroes to throw slurs?

Del.Monte · 15-03-2021 9:21am

ncounties wrote: »

Moderators - Is this a thread to discuss rail, or for Working Class Heroes to throw slurs?

It's his traditional posting style regardless of the topic.

Sam Russell · 15-03-2021 10:41am

ncounties wrote: »

Moderators - Is this a thread to discuss rail, or for Working Class Heroes to throw slurs?

Mod: This thread is about opening the Wexford Rosslare Waterford line. General discussion of rail vs other modes of transport is not on topic. Conversion of the line to greenway is on topic as this will keep the alignment in public ownership.

Any funds used for either option will come from the Transport budget, so diverting funds to other budgets is also off topic.

Thank you.

Working class heroes · 15-03-2021 10:48am

ncounties wrote: »

Moderators - Is this a thread to discuss rail, or for Working Class Heroes to throw slurs?

If you have a problem with my post please feel free to report to the mods.
Thanks.

Zebra3 · 15-03-2021 10:52am

ohographite wrote: »

I bet that the railway could have attracted much higher demand if it had had a better service when it was open.

And you’d probably win that bet.

But at the end of the day, the higher demand would be marginal and nowhere near enough to justify reopening the line.

An improved bus service would be money better spent.

Should Wexford Waterford line reopen?

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