Advertisement
If you have a new account but can't post, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help to verify your email address. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

Should Wexford Waterford line reopen?

  • 25-02-2021 8:25pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭✭✭ windows 7 home premium


    The south wexford line should not be turned into a greenway, it needs to be reopened.

    Here is south east on track's business case, give it a read. There's alternatives to ripping up the track for a greenway.


«13456711

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    The south wexford line should not be turned into a greenway, it needs to be reopened.

    Agreed, lines making key connections such as Rosslare-rest of country should be reopened as part of transition to a low-carbon economy (business case bedamned) and should not be turned into cycling routes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,904 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Agreed, lines making key connections such as Rosslare-rest of country should be reopened as part of transition to a low-carbon economy (business case bedamned) and should not be turned into cycling routes.

    I hear the Clifden line is due for a comeback any day now


  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    DaCor wrote: »
    I hear the Clifden line is due for a comeback any day now

    I would say that reopening the Rosslare-Waterford line makes a lot more sense than reopening the Clifden-Galway line. I don't think that reopening Clifden-Galway would encourage enough people out of their cars to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but I do think that reopening Rosslare-Waterford would, if the timetable was different to the timetable it had just before it closed in 2010. For example, if a train runs from Waterford to Wexford town that reached Wexford town at around 8:30, in time for the start of the working day, and if a train runs from Wexford back to Waterford at the end of the working day, at around 17:30, then people who work in Wexford town and live in Waterford, or one of the intermediate villages, would be able to take the train to and from work. The 2010 timetable had a train from Rosslare to Waterford(fed by an Enniscorthy-Rosslare train) which arrived at Waterford at 08:23, and a train from Waterford back to Rosslare at around 17:00(not sure of the exact time), so it could have been used by people working in Waterford and living in Wexford town or the intermediate villages. However, there are more people working in Wexford town and living in Waterford and the intermediate villages than the amount who work in Waterford and live in Wexford and the intermediate villages, so I would say a Waterford-Wexford train arriving at Wexford at 08:30 and returning to Waterford, departing Wexford at 17:30, would be used by more passengers than the amount who used the service that was in operation in 2010 when the line closed.
    The Waterford-Rosslare line could also be used to connect Waterford with the other towns on the Dublin-Rosslare line, such as Bray, Greystones and Arklow, if Waterford-Rosslare trains connect with Rosslare-Dublin ones at Rosslare, or even if you run Dublin to Waterford direct trains via Rosslare.

    However, speaking of the Clifden-Galway line, a small section of it(6 kilometres) has been turned into a greenway, and I walked it and I thought it offered some beautiful scenery.
    http://connemaragreenway.ie/about-2/

    Another small section of it is being restored as a heritage railway
    http://www.connemararailway.ie/


  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ riddlinrussell


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Agreed, lines making key connections such as Rosslare-rest of country should be reopened as part of transition to a low-carbon economy (business case bedamned) and should not be turned into cycling routes.

    I'm definitely not opposed, but I also think a Greenway in this region should go ahead.

    In a world where Eamon Ryan has somehow actually gotten the promised 2:1 spending on public transport and its now baked in, say we have some really key network sections complete (Dual Limerick line + LJ rework, passing loops on Galway Line, Navan Line) and they are starting to look at expanding the network, what would be your wishlist for the Rosslare to Waterford route? (Including what you see as the vital improvements elsewhere to make it 'more viable')

    Mine would include a greenway alongside the route on IÉ lands (minimising land negotiation nightmares) that would protect a potential future second line. Obviously passing loops etc would be factored in with this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    Rosslare is a RORO port and that is booming. It has an existing rail connection but yet little interest in using it. Reinstating the South Wexford line would cost tens of millions to run trains past an existing bulk port receiving rail freight. There is also Marino Point for future potential freight on the existing network. Any trains would be diesel so no off-set of emissions. We'll likely see alternative fuels being applied here to road freight before rail freight anyway.

    This thread is for greenways, there is an entire subforum for rail fantasies.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,364 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte


    The forum could do with renaming from Infrastructure to Roads + Greenways.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    The forum could do with renaming from Infrastructure to Roads + Greenways.

    Plenty of rail threads in this forum too. This thread however is specifically for Greenways.


  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ riddlinrussell


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Plenty of rail threads in this forum too. This thread however is specifically for Greenways.

    I think there is a certain extent to which rail and greenways intersect, I don't think this is the place to just call for things like Southeast on Track, but it definitely would be the place to discuss possible routings if the Waterford Rosslaire line was to be retained.

    It may be worth there being a thread specifically to discuss the restoration of the railways in a sustainable manner, looking at what projects would be needed to make the current network more viable, and by extension make new/revitalised routes more viable, including potentially changed routings/upgrades that would better serve the area than simply restoring the Victorian trackbed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Rosslare is a RORO port and that is booming. It has an existing rail connection but yet little interest in using it. Reinstating the South Wexford line would cost tens of millions to run trains past an existing bulk port receiving rail freight. There is also Marino Point for future potential freight on the existing network. Any trains would be diesel so no off-set of emissions. We'll likely see alternative fuels being applied here to road freight before rail freight anyway.

    This thread is for greenways, there is an entire subforum for rail fantasies.

    Why is reinstating the South Wexford line fantasy? It could be used for passenger trains. I still think that enough passengers would use it to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. I am aware that petrol and diesel cars can be replaced with electric cars and cleaner fuel cars, which is important to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but diesel trains can also be replaced with lower emitting trains, which would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even further. It is necessary for society to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions as much as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,904 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Why is reinstating the South Wexford line fantasy? It could be used for passenger trains. I still think that enough passengers would use it to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. I am aware that petrol and diesel cars can be replaced with electric cars and cleaner fuel cars, which is important to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, but diesel trains can also be replaced with lower emitting trains, which would reduce greenhouse gas emissions even further. It is necessary for society to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions as much as possible.

    How much emissions are produced by cyclists and walkers?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    DaCor wrote: »
    How much emissions are produced by cyclists and walkers?

    None, but I would say reinstating the Rosslare-Waterford railway would prevent hundreds of car journeys every day, almost none of which would be prevented by a greenway on the trackbed of the railway.
    I enjoy walking and cycling on greenways, and I would say they have environmental benefits(like encouraging people to go on carless cycling holidays, or giving locals a chance to enjoy a carbon neutral walk) and my view is that an effort should be made to find a way to get a greenway in South Wexford that can co-exist with the Rosslare-Waterford railway. In other words, I think having both a greenway and a railway running through South Wexford is worth pursuing, as both offer environmental benefits, but neither of them alone offers the environmental benefits of the other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭ nilhg


    None, but I would say reinstating the Rosslare-Waterford railway would prevent hundreds of car journeys every day, almost none of which would be prevented by a greenway on the trackbed of the railway.
    I enjoy walking and cycling on greenways, and I would say they have environmental benefits(like encouraging people to go on carless cycling holidays, or giving locals a chance to enjoy a carbon neutral walk) and my view is that an effort should be made to find a way to get a greenway in South Wexford that can co-exist with the Rosslare-Waterford railway. In other words, I think having both a greenway and a railway running through South Wexford is worth pursuing, as both offer environmental benefits, but neither of them alone offers the environmental benefits of the other.

    I'm coming to this a bit late but was interested enough to look up the Google maps car journey time from Wexford railway station to Waterford railway station (43 minutes) and also to use railmaponline to check out the old railway line which seems to me to run through a very rural part of South Wexford with no significant population centres to feed passengers to a reopened line.

    I live in Kildare, 6km from Kildare station with quite a lot of services to Dublin every day and most people I know who work in greater Dublin drive, not all but a significant majority, I just can't see where you get your faith, that if you build it they will come?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    Reinstating a railway line isn't just about the people that live on it or at the ends, it's about people in other parts of the country being able to use it too. For example, Limerick-Wexford or Cork-Rosslare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭ nilhg


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Reinstating a railway line isn't just about the people that live on it or at the ends, it's about people in other parts of the country being able to use it too. For example, Limerick-Wexford or Cork-Rosslare.

    Fair enough, how much demand for that service do you forsee? Is it big enough to justify the investment considering there is a way to take the train from Limerick to Rosslare already, though not very convenient I'll admit


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,083 ✭✭✭ jackofalltrades


    None, but I would say reinstating the Rosslare-Waterford railway would prevent hundreds of car journeys every day..
    Given the low number of daily passengers on the line when it was in service and the improvements to the N25 in the mean time, I feel your figure of hunderds of car journeys prevented is very optimistic.
    In other words, I think having both a greenway and a railway running through South Wexford is worth pursuing, as both offer environmental benefits, but neither of them alone offers the environmental benefits of the other.
    Wexford County Council ruled out a side-by-side option as too expensive.
    We don't do expensive cycling infrastructure in this country.
    It's either run the Greenway on the disused line or nothing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    Given the low number of daily passengers on the line when it was in service and the improvements to the N25 in the mean time, I feel your figure of hunderds of car journeys prevented is very optimistic.

    Wexford County Council ruled out a side-by-side option as too expensive.
    We don't do expensive cycling infrastructure in this country.
    It's either run the Greenway on the disused line or nothing.

    I agree that the number of passengers using it was low when it was in operation, but I don't think it's optimistic to think that it would have taken hundreds of cars off the road every day if it had had a better service. South East on Track(which I am a member of) is not asking for the reopening of Rosslare-Waterford only to run 1 train a day from Rosslare to Waterford in the morning, and 1 train from Waterford to Rosslare in the evening. We are asking for the reopening of the line, but with a better service.

    I had posted the below paragraph earlier in this thread, but I am re-posting it here to explain the difference between the service that was in operation(which I admit had low passenger numbers) and the service that South East on Track want the railway to reopen with.

    If a train runs from Waterford to Wexford town that reached Wexford town at around 8:30, in time for the start of the working day, and if a train runs from Wexford back to Waterford at the end of the working day, at around 17:30, then people who work in Wexford town and live in Waterford, or one of the intermediate villages, would be able to take the train to and from work.
    The 2010 timetable had a train from Rosslare to Waterford(fed by an Enniscorthy-Rosslare train) which arrived at Waterford at 08:23, and a train from Waterford back to Rosslare at around 17:00(not sure of the exact time), so it could have been used by people working in Waterford and living in Wexford town or the intermediate villages.
    However, there are more people working in Wexford town and living in Waterford and the intermediate villages than the amount who work in Waterford and live in Wexford and the intermediate villages, so I would say a Waterford-Wexford train arriving at Wexford at 08:30 and returning to Waterford, departing Wexford at 17:30, would be used by more passengers than the amount who used the service that was in operation in 2010 when the line closed.
    The Waterford-Rosslare line could also be used to connect Waterford with the other towns on the Dublin-Rosslare line, such as Bray, Greystones and Arklow, if Waterford-Rosslare trains connect with Rosslare-Dublin ones at Rosslare, or even if you run Dublin to Waterford direct trains via Rosslare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,364 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte


    There are multiple options for new services but CIE never wanted to retain the line and it has been on their hit list for decades. No service worthy of the name, no marketing of what little service there was, a scorched earth policy towards buildings, passing loops etc. on the route - the station at Ballycullane operated for some years without even a nameboard!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭ nilhg


    I agree that the number of passengers using it was low when it was in operation, but I don't think it's optimistic to think that it would have taken hundreds of cars off the road every day if it had had a better service. South East on Track(which I am a member of) is not asking for the reopening of Rosslare-Waterford only to run 1 train a day from Rosslare to Waterford in the morning, and 1 train from Waterford to Rosslare in the evening. We are asking for the reopening of the line, but with a better service.

    I had posted the below paragraph earlier in this thread, but I am re-posting it here to explain the difference between the service that was in operation(which I admit had low passenger numbers) and the service that South East on Track want the railway to reopen with.

    If a train runs from Waterford to Wexford town that reached Wexford town at around 8:30, in time for the start of the working day, and if a train runs from Wexford back to Waterford at the end of the working day, at around 17:30, then people who work in Wexford town and live in Waterford, or one of the intermediate villages, would be able to take the train to and from work.
    The 2010 timetable had a train from Rosslare to Waterford(fed by an Enniscorthy-Rosslare train) which arrived at Waterford at 08:23, and a train from Waterford back to Rosslare at around 17:00(not sure of the exact time), so it could have been used by people working in Waterford and living in Wexford town or the intermediate villages.
    However, there are more people working in Wexford town and living in Waterford and the intermediate villages than the amount who work in Waterford and live in Wexford and the intermediate villages, so I would say a Waterford-Wexford train arriving at Wexford at 08:30 and returning to Waterford, departing Wexford at 17:30, would be used by more passengers than the amount who used the service that was in operation in 2010 when the line closed.
    The Waterford-Rosslare line could also be used to connect Waterford with the other towns on the Dublin-Rosslare line, such as Bray, Greystones and Arklow, if Waterford-Rosslare trains connect with Rosslare-Dublin ones at Rosslare, or even if you run Dublin to Waterford direct trains via Rosslare.

    What time would the train have to leave Waterford to reach Wexford for 8.30? And what time would the 17.30 train back reach Waterford?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    The Waterford to Wexford line has some potential for student traffic - Wex have ambitions for a 1000 strong campus under the TUSE, obviously Waterford will have the lead campus of about 8000 but depending on what faculties go where there's clearly the possibility for traffic in both directions. The secondary schools in Waterford used to have traffic from south Wexford by train.


  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    nilhg wrote: »
    I'm coming to this a bit late but was interested enough to look up the Google maps car journey time from Wexford railway station to Waterford railway station (43 minutes) and also to use railmaponline to check out the old railway line which seems to me to run through a very rural part of South Wexford with no significant population centres to feed passengers to a reopened line.

    I live in Kildare, 6km from Kildare station with quite a lot of services to Dublin every day and most people I know who work in greater Dublin drive, not all but a significant majority, I just can't see where you get your faith, that if you build it they will come?

    I have estimated that the Rosslare-Waterford line would be used for 560 journeys a day, if reopened with the following:
    • A train from Waterford that arrives at Wexford around 08:30(continuing to Dublin) and (coming from Dublin)departs Wexford for Waterford around 17:30
    • A train from Wexford that arrives at Waterford at 8:30 and departs Waterford for Wexford around 17:30
    • As well as those, 5 off-peak return trains from Dublin to Waterford via Wexford, with the ex Waterford ones departing Waterford just after either an arrival from Limerick Junction or an arrival from Dublin, and with the arrivals into Waterford arriving just before a departure for Limerick Junction or Dublin.

    This would produce a service that suits people living in Waterford and working in Wexford(and vice versa), and it would connect all the towns on the Dublin-Carlow-Waterford line with all the towns on the Dublin-Wicklow-Wexford line(the timetable in operation in 2010 did not allow this, since there was an Enniscorthy to Waterford train that departed Enniscorthy earlier in the day than any train from Dublin arrived, and that returned to Enniscorthy later in the day than any train to Dublin departed). It would also connect all the towns on the Waterford-Limerick line to all the towns on the Dublin-Wicklow-Wexford line.

    Below is an explanation of how I estimated 560 journeys a day:

    -Waterford-Wexford journeys: estimated 170 journeys a day(similar to the 2019 daily Waterford-Kilkenny journeys in the NTA Heavy Rail Census Report 2019)

    -Journeys from the villages on the Waterford-Rosslare line(Campile, Ballycullane, Wellingtonbridge, and Bridgetown) to Wexford and Dublin combined: 200 journeys a day(this comes from the 210 journeys a day to or from Ballymote in the NTA Heavy Rail Census Report 2019) I am comparing Ballymote to 4 villages in South Wexford, because Ballymote has a similar population to those 4 villages combined, so I think Ballymote-Sligo demand is similar to the demand from the 4 villages to Wexford town, and I think Ballymote-Dublin demand would equal the demand from the 4 villages to Dublin.

    -Journeys from/to Waterford to/from the towns on the Dublin-Wicklow-Wexford line(including Bray, Enniscorthy and all intermediate towns with stations): 120 journeys a day. This estimate admittedly has less of a basis than the previous ones. There was some report I read(I can't remember what year it was, 2015 I think) that showed that the amount of journeys on the Dublin-Carlow-Waterford line that were made from Dublin to Waterford(not including journeys that used an intermediate station) was, on average, 38 per train. That same year, the amount of boardings and alightings on trains to/from Dublin in Waterford was, on average, 60 per train. So if you subtract 38 from 60 you have 22. If you subtract 12(the per train average amount of Waterford-Kilkenny journeys) from 22, you get 10 per train. So the amount of journeys made to/from Waterford that involved neither Kilkenny nor Dublin was, on average, 10 per train.
    I am guessing that the amount of journeys made to/from Waterford from/to all the towns on the Dublin-Wicklow-Wexford line(including Bray, Enniscorthy and all the intermediate towns with stations) would also be, on average, 10 per train. The service I am suggesting in this post includes 6 trains from Waterford to all these towns, and 6 trains from them back to Waterford, so 12 in total, and 12 multiplied by 10 is 120, so that's how I arrived at my estimate of 120 journeys a day.

    -Journeys from towns on the Dublin-Wicklow-Wexford line(including Bray, Wexford and all intermediate towns with stations) to towns on the Waterford-Limerick line and towns on the Dublin-Carlow-Waterford line: 60 journeys a day.
    I'll admit this has no basis whatsoever, but with the service I'm suggesting in this post including 5 return trains a day(10 in total) connecting the Dublin-Wicklow-Wexford line to the other 2 lines, I'd say 60 such journeys a day could be achieved(6 per train on average)

    So, to recap:
    Wexford TO/FROM Waterford:170 journeys a day
    South Wexford villages TO/FROM Dublin & Wexford: 210 journeys a day
    Waterford TO/FROM towns between Bray & Enniscorthy inclusive: 120 journeys a day
    Towns on Limerick-Waterford & Dublin-Waterford lines TO/FROM towns between Bray and Wexford inclusive: 60 journeys a day

    170 + 210 + 120 + 60 = 560.

    So that is where my estimate of 560 journeys a day comes from.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭ nilhg


    nilhg wrote: »
    What time would the train have to leave Waterford to reach Wexford for 8.30? And what time would the 17.30 train back reach Waterford?
    I have estimated that the Rosslare-Waterford line would be used for 560 journeys a day, if reopened with the following:
    • A train from Waterford that arrives at Wexford around 08:30(continuing to Dublin) and (coming from Dublin)departs Wexford for Waterford around 17:30
    • A train from Wexford that arrives at Waterford at 8:30 and departs Waterford for Wexford around 17:30
    • As well as those, 5 off-peak return trains from Dublin to Waterford via Wexford, with the ex Waterford ones departing Waterford just after either an arrival from Limerick Junction or an arrival from Dublin, and with the arrivals into Waterford arriving just before a departure for Limerick Junction or Dublin.

    Bit snipped in here for brevity

    So that is where my estimate of 560 journeys a day comes from.

    Thank you for a very detailed answer, I'm not even going to try and quibble with your figures except to say I'm not sure you're comparing like with like.

    I'll refer you back to my other question quoted above on how long the journey Wexford-Waterford or vice versa would take via rail, google maps reckons it's 43 minutes by car, so maybe we could estimate an hour by bus?

    I beileve Wexford -Rosslare takes 23 minutes, I've no idea about the rest?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,667 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    There will not be Dublin to Waterford services along the east coast line given there is just two tracks for the DART and that there is quad tracking on the line out of Heuston.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,364 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    There will not be Dublin to Waterford services along the east coast line given there is just two tracks for the DART and that there is quad tracking on the line out of Heuston.


    There will not be Dublin to Waterford services along the east coast line given the Government, the NTA and CIE - nothing whatsoever to do with track capacity just a can't do mindset.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭ Ben D Bus


    I wonder what impact the development of Waterford's North Quay, and the moving of the train station into the heart of the new development, along with a footbridge from there to the old centre, might have on passenger numbers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    There will not be Dublin to Waterford services along the east coast line given there is just two tracks for the DART and that there is quad tracking on the line out of Heuston.

    The reason I suggested Dublin-Waterford trains via Rosslare was not for people travelling from Dublin all the way to Waterford. What this would do is provide direct trains from Waterford to all the towns on the Dublin-Rosslare line(It would be faster to get from Bray to Waterford via Rosslare, even with the relatively low speed on Waterford-Rosslare when it was open). It would provide direct trains from the 4 villages on the Waterford-Rosslare line to Dublin. It would also increase the frequency of trains from Rosslare to Dublin, and while this can of course be done just as easily without reopening Waterford-Rosslare, it would make sense to run a train all the way from Waterford to Dublin via this route, so that passengers do not have to change trains to travel from anywhere on the Dublin-Rosslare line to anywhere on the Waterford-Rosslare line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    I wonder what impact the development of Waterford's North Quay, and the moving of the train station into the heart of the new development, along with a footbridge from there to the old centre, might have on passenger numbers.

    I am guessing that if this happens, it would increase the amount of people travelling to and from Waterford by train, but I have no idea how much it would increase by if it does increase.
    The reasons I think it would increase passenger numbers are:
    • Thousands of homes, and places for thousands of jobs, are planned to be built on the North Quays, so the train will be convenient for those who would get one of those jobs and live near a train station, and for those who would live in the thousands of homes.
    • The new station is planned to be closer to the city centre of Waterford than the current one is. This means people who think the current station is too far from where they are travelling to, or from, might consider the new one to be close enough to where they are travelling to, or from, for them to travel by train.
    • The local bus routes in Waterford city are planned to serve the new station if it is built, and as far as I know, no buses typically serve the current station. This will help connect the new train station to other parts of the city that it isn't close to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 261 ✭✭ ohographite


    nilhg wrote: »
    Thank you for a very detailed answer, I'm not even going to try and quibble with your figures except to say I'm not sure you're comparing like with like.

    I'll refer you back to my other question quoted above on how long the journey Wexford-Waterford or vice versa would take via rail, google maps reckons it's 43 minutes by car, so maybe we could estimate an hour by bus?

    I beileve Wexford -Rosslare takes 23 minutes, I've no idea about the rest?

    According to the 2009 timetable, it took 1 hour 35 minutes to get from Waterford to Wexford by train.
    And you are correct, Wexford Bus' route 340 takes 1 hour(sometimes it takes 55 minutes) to get from Waterford to Wexford. However, a Waterford to Wexford train service could return with a few changes that lower the journey times to about 50 minutes, slightly slower than travelling by car.
    • It takes a train heading south from Wexford about 10 minutes to get out of Wexford because of the 5 miles(8km) an hour speed limit along the quays of the town, so building a basic station on the south end of the quays would allow people to board/alight the train there, and spend about 10 less minutes on the train. The station could be used by Dublin-Rosslare trains, too.
    • There was a small section of track which left the Waterford-Rosslare line at Killinick, just west of Rosslare, and bypassed Rosslare, joining the Dublin-Rosslare line north of Rosslare. This would shorten the route from Waterford to Wexford, and it would mean that a train running from Waterford to Wexford wouldn't have to stop at Rosslare and change directions, both of which combined would save another 10 minutes.
    • The Waterford-Rosslare line could be reopened with track that allows speeds of 100km/h, which I think was a higher speed than what the track allowed when it was open. The journey time from Waterford to Rosslare Strand(a distance of about 60km) took 1 hour 12 minutes on the 2009 timetable, which is an average speed of about 50km/h. I know that having to stop at stations slows down the journey significantly, but I'd say the maximum speed the train reached was below 100km/h.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭ nilhg


    According to the 2009 timetable, it took 1 hour 35 minutes to get from Waterford to Wexford by train.
    And you are correct, Wexford Bus' route 340 takes 1 hour(sometimes it takes 55 minutes) to get from Waterford to Wexford. However, a Waterford to Wexford train service could return with a few changes that lower the journey times to about 50 minutes, slightly slower than travelling by car.
    • It takes a train heading south from Wexford about 10 minutes to get out of Wexford because of the 5 miles(8km) an hour speed limit along the quays of the town, so building a basic station on the south end of the quays would allow people to board/alight the train there, and spend about 10 less minutes on the train. The station could be used by Dublin-Rosslare trains, too.
    • There was a small section of track which left the Waterford-Rosslare line at Killinick, just west of Rosslare, and bypassed Rosslare, joining the Dublin-Rosslare line north of Rosslare. This would shorten the route from Waterford to Wexford, and it would mean that a train running from Waterford to Wexford wouldn't have to stop at Rosslare and change directions, both of which combined would save another 10 minutes.
    • The Waterford-Rosslare line could be reopened with track that allows speeds of 100km/h, which I think was a higher speed than what the track allowed when it was open. The journey time from Waterford to Rosslare Strand(a distance of about 60km) took 1 hour 12 minutes on the 2009 timetable, which is an average speed of about 50km/h. I know that having to stop at stations slows down the journey significantly, but I'd say the maximum speed the train reached was below 100km/h.


    Again thanks for your answer, even though to be honest on the face of it, it doesn't seem to support your cause.

    To be honest as someone looking at this from up the country and looking at the case for increasing public transport in the South East which I'm sure there's a need for it will be hard to make the case for huge capital investment in rail when it will be much simpler and cheaper (relatively speaking) to leverage the past investment in roads and just roll out increased investment in bus services.

    Even with the Green party getting an increased split of transport investment being spent on public transport there isn't an unlimited pot and there are many demands on that budget.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,364 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte


    The Greens appear more interested in spending money on greenways rather than railways.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ riddlinrussell


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    The Greens appear more interested in spending money on greenways rather than railways.

    "The Greens" aren't a Monolithic entity, but the current Transport Minister almost certainly is more interested in Cycling than Rail. In built up areas I see that as a no brainer, Dublin sees 9% of journeys by Bike even with the current hodgepodge, while apparently only 2% of Journeys are by (the very well used) Luas? Given the gains seen with the creation of the Coastal mobility route (Up from 4k cycling to 20k cycling by some accounts) replicating that across our urban areas would get you close to 40% modal share in the big cities, for a fraction of the cost of a big ticket item like a railway improvement.

    I hope we really see the 2:1 spend on PT borne out over the next few years, but even from an optics perspective youre going to see a lot more cycling stuff happening than rail/bus improvements for a few reasons:

    • The increase in funding for cycling/walking, as a percentage, is far greater than bus or rail funding change
    • The cost to build good cycling infra is much lower than a big ticket rail/bus improvement
    • As evidenced by the CMR, with the right people and the right will, these improvements can be done in a fraction of a fraction of the time taken to progress major works through planning


Advertisement