COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Tippbhoy1 · 08-03-2021 11:33AM

ixoy wrote: »

Pretty sure they were taking the piss.

Someone on here was just advocating commandeering some planes to just go and “get the vaccine”, so I wouldn’t rule anything out...

josip · 08-03-2021 11:47AM

is_that_so wrote: »

BBC article on the challenges to Asian countries of vaccinating with a disappointing graphic of when it all might be done.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56150755

I wonder why they have Serbia down for late 2022?

CrabRevolution · 08-03-2021 11:49AM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

If everyone had copied Israel, the entire population of the world would be vaccinated by now!

For the avoidance of doubt, I was joking.

Though as has been pointed out, my blatantly ridiculous suggestion doesn't really stand out from the many absurd suggestions which are being thrown out here.

ceegee · 08-03-2021 11:51AM

jackryan34 wrote: »

Why didn't they mass produce it back in summer 2020 then? Have it ready pre approval.

They had 6 months

Dont tell me Pfizer can't mass produce products

Because the vaccine has a 6 month shelf life.

Tippbhoy1 · 08-03-2021 11:57AM

jackryan34 wrote: »

Why didn't they mass produce it back in summer 2020 then? Have it ready pre approval.

They had 6 months

Dont tell me Pfizer can't mass produce products

It’s a worthwhile point to discuss and is all about risk management.
As an entity of finite resources, Pfizer as an example would have to take a risk that the vaccine would be approved. This would the mean reducing capacity of and focus on something else, while at the same time spending money on something that they might have to throw in the bin. And we are not talking about small beer here. At what point would or should a private entity start doing this.

Regardless, this has been done to a fair degree anyway, It takes months to get a factory up and running. Once they got final approval they had stocks ready to go. Same for AZ, and j&j who have stocks ready to go too.

The mRNA vaccines are high tech, I would agree with an earlier posters point-that Pfizer didn’t expect the demand to be so high for their product either. If you look at global orders in the western world, AZ was then cheaper option and had the biggest quantities ordered. Pfizer would make their money on the high end and critical spaces at the start, then the cheaper alternatives would take over eventually.

JDD · 08-03-2021 11:58AM

How come China are so far behind in vaccinating their population? Haven't they had a home produced vaccine for months now?

I know it's logistically difficult in such a vast country but by god they have a million strong army and a logistical network that western countries could only dream of. Is it because they haven't had the same amount of time in full lockdown that it just isn't a priority for them?

08-03-2021 12:02PM

Just got a call from my dad’s GP. They have to get their list of housebound people wanting the vaccine into the HSE by 5pm today. The plan is for ambulance service to do the vaccines. Just have to wait for call from HSE with his date once they’ve worked out the logistics.

Mum gets her 2nd dose of her vaccine on Friday week. The carers had their first AZ vaccine a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully, they all tie in nicely with each other for fully done. The more I’ve thought about it the more I’ve realised that it doesn’t matter if I’m last on any list once they’re protected.

jackryan34 · 08-03-2021 12:19PM

ceegee wrote: »

Because the vaccine has a 6 month shelf life.

Aren't they all 6 months? Makes those mass produce before approval promises months back even more ludicrous

jackryan34 · 08-03-2021 12:23PM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

It’s a worthwhile point to discuss and is all about risk management.
As an entity of finite resources, Pfizer as an example would have to take a risk that the vaccine would be approved. This would the mean reducing capacity of and focus on something else, while at the same time spending money on something that they might have to throw in the bin. And we are not talking about small beer here. At what point would or should a private entity start doing this.

Regardless, this has been done to a fair degree anyway, It takes months to get a factory up and running. Once they got final approval they had stocks ready to go. Same for AZ, and j&j who have stocks ready to go too.

The mRNA vaccines are high tech, I would agree with an earlier posters point-that Pfizer didn’t expect the demand to be so high for their product either. If you look at global orders in the western world, AZ was then cheaper option and had the biggest quantities ordered. Pfizer would make their money on the high end and critical spaces at the start, then the cheaper alternatives would take over eventually.

Pfizer and many didn't produce anything till contracts were signed with governments in late 2020

Felt out the market, agreed a price country by country, looked at competitors pricing and supply, partnered up etc etc, you'd think it was a car they were launching.I'd love to see an investigation done down the line of how this mess happened.

Danno · 08-03-2021 12:28PM

What is happening with Novavax, the EU/EMA was supposed to approve this mid-February. Nothing but crickets since.

snotboogie · 08-03-2021 12:38PM

JDD wrote: »

How come China are so far behind in vaccinating their population? Haven't they had a home produced vaccine for months now?

I know it's logistically difficult in such a vast country but by god they have a million strong army and a logistical network that western countries could only dream of. Is it because they haven't had the same amount of time in full lockdown that it just isn't a priority for them?

They aren't very proactive in releasing figures. Their last update was in February, Id say they aren't a million miles off the US in terms of absolute numbers but ya they are way behind in terms of % of population. Zero Covid within their borders lowers their urgency, they also are aggressively pushing vaccine diplomacy.

Apogee · 08-03-2021 12:45PM

Paul Reid interview on yesterday's This Week:
https://www.rte.ie/radio1/this-week/

Paul Reid/RT&#201 wrote:

-Long Term Care Facilities - first dose by end of this week
-FHCW - completed first dose by middle of March
-95% of 72,000 over 85s completed - rest completed this week (30 GPs/500 patients)
-Over 85 housebound - this week via ambulance service
-80-84 on-going

-Expect 377,000 AZ for Q1 (Planned was 449,028 according to Gov doc?)
-Possibly over 150,000 in Cohort 4 - starting this week with 10K neurological disabilities etc.
-Still expects 1.2M doses by end of Q1. 200,000 on last day.

08-03-2021 12:46PM

jackryan34 wrote: »

Why didn't they mass produce it back in summer 2020 then? Have it ready pre approval.

They had 6 months

Dont tell me Pfizer can't mass produce products

Its not as simple as flicking a switch on the production line and suddenly you have the new product.

You have to assess capacity within the system and if you dont have capacity procure and qualify that capacity. That takes time. Even with an approved and released product, qualifying new equipment or an alternate site requires months. In the case of the vaccine the manufacturing will be scaling up from development equipment used to supply the trials rather than scaled up manufacturing which also adds complexity. The manufacturers also have to assess how capacity within in their system affects their broader product portfolio. It may be easy in some cases to bring capacity on stream, but potentially at the cost of another vital medicinal product. The best decision in that case may be a short term ramp of the alternate product, before bringing capacity for the vaccine on board.

charlie14 · 08-03-2021 12:50PM

Danno wrote: »

What is happening with Novavax, the EU/EMA was supposed to approve this mid-February. Nothing but crickets since.

As far as I know the EU/EMA are doing a rolling review of the Novavak vaccine. Novavak did nor complete their enrollment for Phase 3 trials until 22 Feb so there would be nothing fro those trials to review yet.
They have applied to the FDA for emergency use authorisation,but do not expect that until May. Even if they get that it would be June/July before they start shipping vaccines there and with them being involved in the U.S. warp speed program probably much later before they would ship outside the U.S. anyway

Danno · 08-03-2021 12:52PM

charlie14 wrote: »

As far as I know the EU/EMA are doing a rolling review of the Novavak vaccine. Novavak did nor complete their enrollment for Phase 3 trials until 22 Feb so there would be nothing fro those trials to review yet.
They have applied to the FDA for emergency use authorisation,but do not expect that until May. Even if they get that it would be June/July before they start shipping vaccines there and with them being involved in the U.S. warp speed program probably much later before they would ship outside the U.S. anyway

Feck :eek: , it was the one I'd be most willing to have, AZ probably my second choice.

Tippbhoy1 · 08-03-2021 12:53PM

jackryan34 wrote: »

Pfizer and many didn't produce anything till contracts were signed with governments in late 2020

Felt out the market, agreed a price country by country, looked at competitors pricing and supply, partnered up etc etc, you'd think it was a car they were launching.I'd love to see an investigation done down the line of how this mess happened.

Late 2020? It depends on what you consider producing. Is investing in facilities and getting ready considered not part of producing? Contracts with az for example was agreed end August. Vaccines were being distributed in December to some countries. What exactly are you expecting? Every one of the companies took risks. Talk me through your view?

08-03-2021 12:54PM

Looks like my parents and myself are all high-risk so I'm hoping we'll be done in April.

hynesie08 · 08-03-2021 12:55PM

-Still expects 1.2M doses by end of Q1. 200,000 on last day.

If that happens, and we get those 200k into arms at our going efficiency, it only puts us a week behind...... Not the worst outcome.

08-03-2021 12:57PM

Danno wrote: »

What is happening with Novavax, the EU/EMA was supposed to approve this mid-February. Nothing but crickets since.

In rolling review in the EU, UK and Canada with possibility for approval next month however they have as yet not formally applied anywhere.

timsey tiger · 08-03-2021 12:58PM

snotboogie wrote: »

They aren't very proactive in releasing figures. Their last update was in February, Id say they aren't a million miles off the US in terms of absolute numbers but ya they are way behind in terms of % of population. Zero Covid within their borders lowers their urgency, they also are aggressively pushing vaccine diplomacy.

One could even argue that they are following the morally correct approach. Directing their vaccines where most needed and not selfishly using it for their own population who currently are at much lower risk.

08-03-2021 12:59PM

charlie14 wrote: »

As far as I know the EU/EMA are doing a rolling review of the Novavak vaccine. Novavak did nor complete their enrollment for Phase 3 trials until 22 Feb so there would be nothing fro those trials to review yet.
They have applied to the FDA for emergency use authorisation,but do not expect that until May. Even if they get that it would be June/July before they start shipping vaccines there and with them being involved in the U.S. warp speed program probably much later before they would ship outside the U.S. anyway

That was the Phase 3 trial in US and Mexico that will form the FDA submission as they require US data. Phase 3 trials have been reported on for UK and SA which will likely be the basis of the EU submission

seamus · 08-03-2021 01:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Even with an approved and released product, qualifying new equipment or an alternate site requires months.

A new housemate of mine back in the 2000s had moved up to Dublin cos he had gotten a job in the new Wyeth plant in Clondalkin. I think it was 2003.
They started building in 2002, some of the machinery was in place by the end of 2003 and they had started hiring technicians to work there. Not producing anything, but nevertheless the stuff was up and running, doing its thing. It was 2005 before the plant was finally finished and IIRC another 12-18 months before it actually rolled out any drugs for sale.

That's 3-5 years of having the production machines up and running, staff attending to them. Because that's how long it takes to prove that not only is the machinery sufficiently calibrated to produce the drugs to the right standard, but that the staff are properly drilled on the plant and the processes too.

Obviously you don't have to restart this whole cycle to produce a new drug, but it's equally not a case of just being given a new formula tomorrow and rolling drugs off the line ready for sale next week.

Like you say, there are months of preparation that go into it. Massive batches of the new drug that are produced and destroyed continuously in the process of ensuring that the plant can reliably produce it to the same quality over and over again.

Cork2021 · 08-03-2021 01:23PM

Spot on!!

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/1368897568504221701?s=21

bodhrandude · 08-03-2021 01:24PM

My doctor was saying to me that I should get my first vaccination in the next few weeks, apparently I have to get it I think at the hospital. I was at the surgery today as I had to get a blood test to check to see if I have the Alpha-1 condition.

eoinbn · 08-03-2021 01:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In rolling review in the EU, UK and Canada with possibility for approval next month however they have as yet not formally applied anywhere.

The idiots in Brussels haven't ordered a single vaccine from Novavax so approval doesn't mean anything. The UK has ordered 60m and Canada ordered 76m last August. The EU is still haggling over 100m doses.

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 01:43PM

eoinbn wrote: »

The idiots in Brussels haven't ordered a single vaccine from Novavax so approval doesn't mean anything. The UK has ordered 60m and Canada has ordered 76m last August. The EU is still haggling over 100m doses.

Novavax is down the list of priorities, they're an American company.

Curevac (a European company) is the next big one.

Quantum Baloney · 08-03-2021 01:43PM

Does anyone know where I can find a full list of the adjuncts in the vaccines available in Ireland?

eoinbn · 08-03-2021 01:48PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Novavax is down the list of priorities, they're an American company.

Curevac (a European company) is the next big one.

Curevac will be the end of Q2 start of Q3. They have got Novartis on board to help with manufacturing but don't expect much until Q3.

Novavax is a better vaccine and easier to produce. Nationality shouldn't matter.

ACitizenErased · 08-03-2021 01:52PM

eoinbn wrote: »

Curevac will be the end of Q2 start of Q3. They have got Novartis on board to help with manufacturing but don't expect much until Q3.

Novavax is a better vaccine and easier to produce. Nationality shouldn't matter.

Curevac is an mRNA vaccine, the same as Pfizer and Moderna, produced by a European company and with phase 3 results expected this month. To say Novavax is 'better' is likely very wrong.

Very naive to say nationality doesn't matter - AstraZeneca and Moderna have proved that it very much does.

plodder · 08-03-2021 02:08PM

Quantum Baloney wrote: »

Does anyone know where I can find a full list of the adjuncts in the vaccines available in Ireland?

You mean adjuvants I presume. Afaik, none of the three currently licensed contain adjuvants, which are substances intended to enhance the effect of the vaccine. They do contain "excipients" which are inactive substances used to stabilise or assist in the delivery of the vaccine. You can see lists of these at the following links. Search for the word excipient.

(Pfizer) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-for-covid-19/information-for-healthcare-professionals-on-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine

(Moderna) https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/product-information/covid-19-vaccine-moderna-epar-product-information_en.pdf

(AZ) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca/information-for-uk-recipients-on-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

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