Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

I'm liking the tone on this article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/electric-picnic-to-go-ahead-unless-the-government-tells-us-otherwise-1.4503686%3fmode=amp

Responder XY wrote: »

When will we hear what happens on 5th April (I think the next date we'll have a review)?

I'm hoping that we can go to level 4 + hairdressers and barbers opening! given the way numbers are going that's the minimum I think they should do. Can't see how they can justify keeping lv. 5 for any longer given the progress being made on vaccinations for the vulnerable.

I think the barbers and hairdressers are level 3?

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84092-1

Interesting study.

"In conclusion, using current data, ~ 98% of the comparisons using 87 different regions of the world we found no evidence that the number of deaths/million is reduced by staying at home."

"Pubs, restaurants, and barbershops were open in Ireland on June 29th and masks were not mandatory; after more than 2 months, no spike was observed; indeed, death rates kept falling"

acequion wrote: »

And what do you think, "we as a public" will do?

I'm not having a go at you but anyone expecting "we as a Public" to claim back our rights, which is exactly what "we as a public" should be doing, will be waiting forever. If we were to be locked up for another year the Irish would roll over and take it. Just look at where we're at:

Indefinite lockdowns have become normalised.
Govt diktats, along with punitive action if disobeyed, applauded by "we the public", have become normalised.
NPHET, a bunch of heretofore virtually unknown doctors calling the shots, have become normalised, all now household names. But who voted for them?
A propaganda style media with almost zero tolerance for contrarian views and zero open debate has become normalised.
Fear and negativity, disguised as "caution and concern" have become normalised.
Scapegoating certain groups and inciting resentment and hostility has become normalised.
A dysfunctional political landscape characterised by inept, ineffective leaders and an opposition who are extreme nationalist and populist at best, former terrorist at worst, have become normalised.
A whole way of life characterised by control and repression of liberties, unthinkable just over a year ago, has now become completely normalised.

We as a public have become apathetic and defeated so no, we as a public will continue to do no more than grumble and growl. It really is very worrying.

This is one of the best commentary I have seen of this sorry mess well done to the author. Sums up the Irish attitude absolutely. Shocking stuff altogether what has become acceptable here over the last year but of course we have form for this.

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dazult_pdempsey/status/1368718498072059906

Nothing opening till Sep at the earliest.

Realistically probably have to wait till 2023 and a vaccine for kids is available.

If we open at level 4 we would be at 5,000 cases a day within 3 weeks.

Too right - personally I dont think we should ever open again. Won't be long till a new virus comes along so it's better to just play it safe and lockdown for good.

Pubs, restaurants, brick & mortar retail - who needs it?
The future is all online, hopefully someone invents a matrix like simulation for us all to live in permanently. Only then will we be safe from the dangers of life. :rolleyes:

acequion wrote: »

Public opinion has largely supported the measures because bizarrely lockdown has suited a lot of people and the Govt have bought off a lot of people too. I would love to see more sensible public opinion gaining momentum but I'll believe it when I see it. After what I've seen from the public this past year I'm not optimistic.

The tone of your post is upbeat which is welcoming but May and June are too far away imo. We should be looking to reopen on a gradual and controlled basis a lot sooner, we really should be starting this side of Easter.

I agree what I outlined is too slow of an reopening and most of my posts in this forum are critical of how harsh our restrictions are compared to the rest of Europe. But if offered now what I outlined (shops May, restaurants June) I'd take it as from the mumblings from government so far this sounds optimistic but my point is that what government say now about future restrictions is irrelevant as we'll just follow the UK approach but slightly more cautious.I don't agree that there should be be very limited reopening until early May but we all know this is going to be the case don't we whether we agree with it or not?

Over the last few weeks I've been getting angry and annoyed at our likely lifting of restriction and how much it'll be behind the rest of Europe (like Leo talking about outdoor dining for the summer) but I'm trying to be more positive and not let this stuff consume me so much. Part of helping me with this is trying to ignore these comments from government and public health as much as possible because I think we'll see what happens with the UK and follow their approach.

You're right that our public have been surprisingly willing to accept our harsh restrictions and some even want harsher restrictions. But I think this will change if we see the UK with little restrictions and showing no ill effects of this. There is probably a very small section of society happy enough to go along with these restrictions long term but I think it's such a small section. Who isn't missing at least one of the following; seeing family more, seeing friends more, going to restaurant, going to pub to meet friends for a drink, weddings, funerals, foriegn holidays, working, playing sports, going to a match or concert, going to gym or cinema. I really don't think many are enjoying this at all but obviously some are effected more than others. So if at that stage the government are still very cautious public opinion will force the to change tact. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I'm hoping. Maybe I'm just very naive :pac:

acequion wrote: »

Public opinion has largely supported the measures because bizarrely lockdown has suited a lot of people and the Govt have bought off a lot of people too. I would love to see more sensible public opinion gaining momentum but I'll believe it when I see it. After what I've seen from the public this past year I'm not optimistic.

The tone of your post is upbeat which is welcoming but May and June are too far away imo. We should be looking to reopen on a gradual and controlled basis a lot sooner, we really should be starting this side of Easter.

Thats just nonsense talk. Lockdown has suited bugger all. No one wants restrictions. What the majority of people do have the sense to realise is that without restrictions - we would be deep dodo with healtcare facilities stretched to the limit much like January.

Any opening is dependent on firstly - our vaccination schedule working towards vaccinating a critical mass of people and that we get case numbers down and keep them down. Exactly what our nearest neighbour is doing. We're behind them as they have greater access to vaccines that we know. That doesn't make here slow and as someone said - its to our benefit that they are our canary in the coal mines.

We already know that restrictions will be rolled back gradually. Schools opening is already in hand and the begining of April the target date for the review of existing restrictions. Yes there's no guarantees - but I guess the Pandemic but paid to much of that.

average_runner wrote: »

No one wants bars and restaurants shut forever, such a silly statement

Sorry until they only provide non alcoholic beverages and every patron sits in a plastic box to ensure no pathogens can be exchanged.

average_runner wrote: »

No one wants bars and restaurants shut forever, such a silly statement

Bars and restaurants are the antithesis of public health.
Alcohol and overeating are incredibly damaging to public health. We need NPHET to save us from ourselves.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84092-1

Interesting study.

"In conclusion, using current data, ~ 98% of the comparisons using 87 different regions of the world we found no evidence that the number of deaths/million is reduced by staying at home."

I wouldn't be clapping tbf. Its a Brazilian research paper apparently attempting to make sense of the disaster that is the out of control covid situation in Brazil.

The study compares states in Brazil with regions around the world with regard to the association between just two variables: deaths/million and the percentage of people who remained in their residence

Bizarrely the study seems to ignore the reduction in actual case numbers and the percentage of people who remained in their residence ie the principal reason that these type of restrictions are employed.

And that despite acknowledging that "The major route of transmission for COVID-19 is from person-to-person via respiratory droplets and direct personal and physical contact within a community setting"...

And after reading that I'm afraid I remain unconvinced by Brazils pandemic control or lack thereof tbf.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-03-05/coronavirus-crisis-in-brazil-deepens-as-covid-variant-spreads-and-deaths-spike

BringBackMick wrote: »

Sorry until they only provide non alcoholic beverages and every patron sits in a plastic box to ensure no pathogens can be exchanged.

Again silly statement

average_runner wrote: »

No one wants bars and restaurants shut forever, such a silly statement

There are plenty of people who would welcome bars never opening again, the anti alcohol sentiment from sectors of government, the public service and NGO's is pervasive. Minimum alcohol pricing is only just around the corner, other measures like vouchers and loyalty schemes were just excluded from including alcohol. You might have noticed your local shops have had to section off the alcohol aisle. Legislation and debate about alcohol never ends and it's the thin end of a wedge driving us into a nanny state.

Just watch what happens with the proposals from Helen McEntee over the next year.

OwenM wrote: »

There are plenty of people who would welcome bars never opening again, the anti alcohol sentiment from sectors of government, the public service and NGO's is pervasive. Minimum alcohol pricing is only just around the corner, other measures like vouchers and loyalty schemes were just excluded from including alcohol. You might have noticed your local shops have had to section off the alcohol aisle. Legislation and debate about alcohol never ends and it's the thin end of a wedge driving us into a nanny state.

Just watch what happens with the proposals from Helen McEntee over the next year.

Bars are in a natural decline for a long time. Minimum pricing will actually help save the bars.


Bars do have a social side of it which is great, but we do need to sort out the problems it has on A&E, same way the UK has it.

Boggles wrote: »

We will be looking at the UK as 4 separate countries as their policies are different on reopening. England sent all pupils back today, the data from that will be interesting in 3 weeks time.

Of course everyone is looking at Israel.

But important data will also come from countries beginning their 3rd wave who have only a small percentage vaccinated.

But I guarantee you what won't happen as you hinted is we will blindly follow England or the rest of the UK.

But we need the UK to have a win, particularly England and lads up top who do seem now to be more on the same page as us.

They'll all have similar measures in the UK I think with Scotland and Northern Ireland with slightly more cautious reopenings.

Anyway I wasn't saying blindly follow the UK approach. My point is if we take England as the example, and they have 80% adults with first doses by end of May and at that stage have pubs and restaurants opened, with their only restrictions really just against large gatherings (nightclubs, concerts etc) and all their metrics are looking really good, then what justification could our government have for not doing the same when we get to the same percentage vaccinated by say end of June? I don't think they could have any. Obviously if we find out that England went too early and had another wave then we'd be more cautious to avoid the same here.