COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Tippbhoy1 · 06-03-2021 05:40AM

UDAWINNER wrote: »

Why was there a shortage of supplies for the Over 85s as they all say it was AZ fault, but this cohort would be getting Pfizer or Moderna. Am I missing something?

Shortfall in cohort 2, HCW getting AZ, made back up from supplies originally planned for cohort 3.

average_runner · 06-03-2021 09:30AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

It will be interesting to know where Canada is getting their J&J supply from, as they approved before the EMA, if it's shipping from the EU and it's no stopped, it could mean J&J have a decent supply ready for us.
Then again, they could pull an AZ and say they will deliver and then ship it all to Canada and then say opps, I did it again!

Wouldn't you want to give it to.the people that paid for it first. EU is way too slow and will prolong lockdown well into the summer.

Thank god the outdoor season is here, numbers dropping and kids having fun playing outside.

is_that_so · 06-03-2021 09:51AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

It will be interesting to know where Canada is getting their J&J supply from, as they approved before the EMA, if it's shipping from the EU and it's no stopped, it could mean J&J have a decent supply ready for us.
Then again, they could pull an AZ and say they will deliver and then ship it all to Canada and then say opps, I did it again!

J&J manufacture vaccines anyway, they know what they are doing. AZ by the looks of things do not with all the wide boy juggling of supplies that is going on.

is_that_so · 06-03-2021 09:56AM

average_runner wrote: »

Wouldn't you want to give it to.the people that paid for it first. EU is way too slow and will prolong lockdown well into the summer.

Thank god the outdoor season is here, numbers dropping and kids having fun playing outside.

The EU aim is to have a summer, tourism accounts for 10% of GDP and some countries genuinely afford another lost summer economically, hence the enthusiasm to work on vaccine passports. As for AZ, annoying one customer over another is really not good business, especially one that can block your supply chain.

Leftwaffe · 06-03-2021 09:58AM

Genuine question here. Could we buy more vaccines outside the EU vaccine program? How difficult would this be and what vaccines are available? If it’s possible, why aren’t we doing it?

Chawosfski · 06-03-2021 10:04AM

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Genuine question here. Could we buy more vaccines outside the EU vaccine program? How difficult would this be and what vaccines are available? If it’s possible, why aren’t we doing it?

We've setup a task force

Or are setting it up

JTMan · 06-03-2021 10:20AM

FT reports here (paywall) that the EU seeks to access AstraZeneca vaccines produced in US.

- EU will urge the US to permit the export of millions of doses of AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine to Europe.
- EU also wants Washington to ensure the free flow of shipments of crucial vaccine ingredients needed in European production.
- Thierry Breton, EU internal market commissioner, has now been tasked to work with Jeffrey Zients, US co-ordinator of the Covid-19 response, on vaccine supply chain matters.
- AstraZeneca say they need to source 90 million vaccines in Q2 from outside the EU but have not said where they will come from.
- US have ordered 300m doses of the AstraZeneca jab but not clear when the FDA will approve the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Danzy · 06-03-2021 10:24AM

is_that_so wrote: »

J&J manufacture vaccines anyway, they know what they are doing. AZ by the looks of things do not with all the wide boy juggling of supplies that is going on.

Astra Zeneca is a tiny company, Johnson and Johnson is a global behemoth.

is_that_so · 06-03-2021 10:42AM

Danzy wrote: »

Astra Zeneca is a tiny company, Johnson and Johnson is a global behemoth.

Moderna too are tiny but they owned up to the challenges of supply way back, AZ have not. The UK is the only thing they have got right. Now they seem to have commitments they will not be able to meet.

eoinbn · 06-03-2021 10:43AM

Danzy wrote: »

Astra Zeneca is a tiny company, Johnson and Johnson is a global behemoth.

Nonsense. AstraZeneca has 75k employees and are worth £90bn. Yes J&J are larger but that doesn't make AZ small, let alone tiny.

eoinbn · 06-03-2021 10:50AM

JTMan wrote: »

FT reports here (paywall) that the EU seeks to access AstraZeneca vaccines produced in US.

- EU will urge the US to permit the export of millions of doses of AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine to Europe.
- EU also wants Washington to ensure the free flow of shipments of crucial vaccine ingredients needed in European production.
- Thierry Breton, EU internal market commissioner, has now been tasked to work with Jeffrey Zients, US co-ordinator of the Covid-19 response, on vaccine supply chain matters.
- AstraZeneca say they need to source 90 million vaccines in Q2 from outside the EU but have not said where they will come from.
- US have ordered 300m doses of the AstraZeneca jab but not clear when the FDA will approve the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Pretty embarrassing that we need to go to the US cap in hand begging for supplies and vaccines. They managed to ramp up production even with an idiot in charge.
The EU is a noble idea but a failed implementation. It is time we started to plot our exit.

Tippbhoy1 · 06-03-2021 10:50AM

average_runner wrote: »

Wouldn't you want to give it to.the people that paid for it first. EU is way too slow and will prolong lockdown well into the summer.

Thank god the outdoor season is here, numbers dropping and kids having fun playing outside.

Not necessarily. Who paid for it first? Who signed a contract first, what way are the contracts structured, who have placed the biggest orders, who are paying the most.

Canada has just approved, Eu will approve next week. Approval is dependent on when the company submits, for example the US got their submission from j&j two weeks before the EU.

Are you saying we should be more like Canada, who are struggling and behind the EU? What about the UK and J&J, how’s that going? We will have more vaccines approved than the US and the UK by next week. We will not be ahead of everyone every time.

is_that_so · 06-03-2021 10:56AM

eoinbn wrote: »

Pretty embarrassing that we need to go to the US cap in hand begging for supplies and vaccines. They managed to ramp up production even with an idiot in charge.
The EU is a noble idea but a failed implementation. It is time we started to plot our exit.

Because the current supplies of vaccines are actually lower than the already expected low level for these 3 months? Sure let's leave the EU!

Tippbhoy1 · 06-03-2021 10:56AM

eoinbn wrote: »

Pretty embarrassing that we need to go to the US cap in hand begging for supplies and vaccines. They managed to ramp up production even with an idiot in charge.
The EU is a noble idea but a failed implementation. It is time we started to plot our exit.

The World is global. The US are getting supplies or
part supplies also from EU based industry. Pfizer and Moderna are US companies. If anything, this is a justification for further EU integration.

Pablo Escobar · 06-03-2021 10:57AM

eoinbn wrote: »

Pretty embarrassing that we need to go to the US cap in hand begging for supplies and vaccines. They managed to ramp up production even with an idiot in charge.
The EU is a noble idea but a failed implementation. It is time we started to plot our exit.

Imagine labelling somebody an "idiot" and then writing that last sentence. I'm sure the irony will be completely lost though.

Kiith · 06-03-2021 10:58AM

eoinbn wrote: »

Pretty embarrassing that we need to go to the US cap in hand begging for supplies and vaccines. They managed to ramp up production even with an idiot in charge.
The EU is a noble idea but a failed implementation. It is time we started to plot our exit.

Ah jesus christ...plot our exit? You really have no idea what you are talking about if you think leaving the EU is the right move.

Tippbhoy1 · 06-03-2021 11:06AM

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Genuine question here. Could we buy more vaccines outside the EU vaccine program? How difficult would this be and what vaccines are available? If it’s possible, why aren’t we doing it?

It’s possible to buy our own, but anything the EU have ordered will be fulfilled before us though. This means Ireland approving and buying Russian or Chinese. Don’t know what the lead times are there, would Xi prioritise Ireland over his own people, he might.

In 3 months time we will have plenty of vaccine. Ireland aren’t far off the top 10 counties in the world in vaccinations. We just need to keep calm until then.

average_runner · 06-03-2021 11:14AM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

It’s possible to buy our own, but anything the EU have ordered will be fulfilled before us though. This means Ireland approving and buying Russian or Chinese. Don’t know what the lead times are there, would Xi prioritise Ireland over his own people, he might.

In 3 months time we will have plenty of vaccine. Ireland aren’t far off the top 10 counties in the world in vaccinations. We just need to keep calm until then.

We keep hearing 3 months this and that. We heard it last January for march.

The fact is we dont know anything on the numbers

mick087 · 06-03-2021 11:24AM

eoinbn wrote: »

Pretty embarrassing that we need to go to the US cap in hand begging for supplies and vaccines. They managed to ramp up production even with an idiot in charge.
The EU is a noble idea but a failed implementation. It is time we started to plot our exit.

The time is not right to exit but it is always a good idea to have a plan for when and if Ireland wish to leave the EU.

Marhay70 · 06-03-2021 11:28AM

Last I heard, Russia had managed to vaccinate less than 2% of its own population yet people seem to think they are buried under mounds of Sputnik vaccine. Supply problems are going to remain until the big boys like J&J get up to speed, AZ seem less able to walk the walk than talk the talk.

mick087 · 06-03-2021 11:29AM

average_runner wrote: »

We keep hearing 3 months this and that. We heard it last January for march.

The fact is we dont know anything on the numbers

Yes its frustrating.

Its a miracle we even have a vaccine let alone a few. In a few months im sure there is going to be more vaccines than we need.

Sanjuro · 06-03-2021 11:31AM

mick087 wrote: »

The time is not right to exit but it is always a good idea to have a plan for when and if Ireland wish to leave the EU.

Ireland will absolutely never leave the EU nor should it.

Godot. · 06-03-2021 11:32AM

Jaysus, at least the EU could sing about the virtues of global solidarity before. Going cap in hand to the Yanks after blocking exports to Australia is turning the bloc into a laughing stock.

If the Aussie episode never happened nobody could bat an second eyelid but now they look all over the place.

Danzy · 06-03-2021 11:35AM

is_that_so wrote: »

The EU aim is to have a summer, tourism accounts for 10% of GDP and some countries genuinely afford another lost summer economically, hence the enthusiasm to work on vaccine passports. As for AZ, annoying one customer over another is really not good business, especially one that can block your supply chain.

Is there a degree of vaccine skepticism in Europe.

There certainly is more than in the rest of the Western world.

While incompetency and bad planning are part of it, there is also a lethargy behind, what German Finance Minister Olaf Scholz has described as "a total shi7 show".

Bloomberg talking here about the EU vaccine passport issues.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-03/eu-vaccine-passports-for-travel-still-months-away-memo-shows

It's frankly amazing that an issue which concerns 10% of EU GDP, and is mostly hitting the countries still barely ahead of the debt curve from the great crash is not a done deal or at least already a project well in motion.

Countries need to have their own plans in place, if they depend on tourism, the Danish and Greeks are moving quickly here, 3 months will turn in to more with dispute, continual changes and arguing and corrections. Just in case this becomes nother shi7 show.

Concerning to see the UK variant at 40% of all cases in Germany now, hopefully they will not see a 3rd wave.

Klonker · 06-03-2021 11:45AM

How would people expect an EU vaccine certificate to work this summer? Would you have to have gotten both doses before getting or would you get after one dose as effectiveness is very high even after one dose? I'd probably expect after both doses as some might be less likely to get their follow up dose if they've already received their certificate.

If you have the cert does that mean you don't need a PCR test or to quarentine? Would people without a vaccine be able to travel if they get a PCR test beforehand and would they have it quarentine?

It seems like a lot of questions to be still answered on this.

Danzy · 06-03-2021 11:46AM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

It’s possible to buy our own, but anything the EU have ordered will be fulfilled before us though. This means Ireland approving and buying Russian or Chinese. Don’t know what the lead times are there, would Xi prioritise Ireland over his own people, he might.

In 3 months time we will have plenty of vaccine. Ireland aren’t far off the top 10 counties in the world in vaccinations. We just need to keep calm until then.

Russia and China have both been prioritizing exports above their own. Soft power politics.

About 60% of Russians don't trust the Sputnik vaccine, pity given we now know it is safe. Mass Centres with vaccines in stock and empty all day.

Tippbhoy1 · 06-03-2021 11:47AM

average_runner wrote: »

We keep hearing 3 months this and that. We heard it last January for march.

The fact is we dont know anything on the numbers

Really? What did you hear in January for March, and when in January, for when in March

I would have confidence we will have significantly more vaccines in 3 months than we have now. No one can say anything for certain as there are no guarantees in life, you could be hit by a bus tomorrow. Yes there will be hiccups, which is the very nature of national programs of work and dependencies on third party supply. 6 months ago we didn’t even know when we would have the vaccines, if indeed at all. Most countries have no vaccine. We are near the top of the pile globally, should we be beating the US?

06-03-2021 11:47AM

So has anyone from Cohort 4 got an appointment yet?

Danzy · 06-03-2021 11:48AM

Klonker wrote: »

How would people expect an EU vaccine certificate to work this summer? Would you have to have gotten both doses before getting or would you get after one dose as effectiveness is very high even after one dose? I'd probably expect after both doses as some might be less likely to get their follow up dose if they've already received their certificate.

If you have the cert does that mean you don't need a PCR test or to quarentine? Would people without a vaccine be able to travel if they get a PCR test beforehand and would they have it quarentine?

It seems like a lot of questions to be still answered on this.

Following the recommended course of shots by vaccine, so if 1 is approved, then just one etc

The big issues coming up are about freedom of movement within the block, clashes with GDPR and privacy.

Danzy · 06-03-2021 11:50AM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

Really? What did you hear in January for March, and when in January, for when in March

I would have confidence we will have significantly more vaccines in 3 months than we have now. No one can say anything for certain as there are no guarantees in life, you could be hit by a bus tomorrow. Yes there will be hiccups, which is the very nature of national programs of work and dependencies on third party supply. 6 months ago we didn’t even know when we would have the vaccines, if indeed at all. Most countries have no vaccine. We are near the top of the pile globally, should we be beating the US?

Have to agree, I'd more expect production targets to be over shot than under in 3 months.

COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

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