How much is this all going to cost and who will pay for it ?

Plumbthedepths · 05-03-2021 12:23PM

JPup wrote: »

Irish GDP growth for 2020 published by the CSO at plus 3.4%. Absolutely no need for austerity or any increase in tax rates at the next budget except for carbon taxes which is for environmental reasons. The government’s financial health is multitudes better now than in 2009.

GDP is not a true measure of our economy. Do you remember the 'Leprechaun economics' label from a few years ago? Growth of almost 21% I believe was the figure.

JPup · 05-03-2021 01:04PM

The point stands: the Irish government's finances are in a healthy position and it won't need to raise tax rates at the next budget, or any of the next two or three, unless the situation gets significantly worse than it is now. i.e. a new Covid variant comes out that the vaccines have no effect on and we are back to square one. Barring that, we're ok.

completedit · 05-03-2021 01:04PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

GDP is not a true measure of our economy. Do you remember the 'Leprechaun economics' label from a few years ago? Growth of almost 21% I believe was the figure.

Higher I think.

I think the central bank released a paper a few weeks ago, Irish economy is more closely like the 8th richest in Europe. That is still incredible given our history and the wealth in the EU but it is a bit more humbling than the oft worn 'we're the second richest country in the world' that is repeated again and again.

I don't know, the international global system is delicate and Ireland is at the mercy of any headwinds that blow it off course. There's going to be bigger issues down the road after the pandemic, I don't think we can say with any certainty that Ireland will be okay.

It does raise moral questions about the nature of debt and how effectively first world countries can just print and print while poor countries are saddled with the burden of debt. When it happens in the first world, it's like 'Oh it's a once in a lifetime pandemic, printing press goes brrrr' but when it's a colonised country debt becomes 'real' and must be paid back, all the while compounding making it an impossible task.

kippy · 05-03-2021 01:37PM

JPup wrote: »

The point stands: the Irish government's finances are in a healthy position and it won't need to raise tax rates at the next budget, or any of the next two or three, unless the situation gets significantly worse than it is now. i.e. a new Covid variant comes out that the vaccines have no effect on and we are back to square one. Barring that, we're ok.

Yeah, you see, I don't believe that too be true.
Most of what might save us from some serious pain this time round is the fact that most of the world is in a similiar boat.

Mid term though we have some serious issues facing us and no real plan to deal with them (that doesn't involve keeping kicking things down the road)

Plumbthedepths · 05-03-2021 01:58PM

JPup wrote: »

The point stands: the Irish government's finances are in a healthy position and it won't need to raise tax rates at the next budget, or any of the next two or three, unless the situation gets significantly worse than it is now. i.e. a new Covid variant comes out that the vaccines have no effect on and we are back to square one. Barring that, we're ok.

Your point doesn't stand. GNP is not a true measure of our economy. We are overly reliant on the MNC sector for taxes yet an industry that employs more people is closed and will take years to recover.

completedit · 05-03-2021 02:06PM

Yeah, I saw FG and Varadkar put up a tweet about Ireland's robost economy and how we were the only economy not to go into recession in 2020 and that's when the actual nonsense of leprechaun economics came home to me. You know when something is just a soundbite and you don't know what to do with the information, I could grasp it theoretically but it all seemed vague enough, reality was we are a prosperous economy but when you see a senior political figure masking the very reality on the ground with such a bogus misrepresentation of reality you know its a sham

I understand the need for signalling confidence but I thought this was too much. It was very blatant.

Hotblack Desiato · 05-03-2021 02:11PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

I wouldn't believe him. Wasn't he supposed to cut USC and help those who get up early in the mornings?

Cutting USC would be a huge mistake, it gets unearned income e.g. landlords

Increase the PAYE tax credit if you want to give relief to workers.

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Have you a source for that 5bn because I googled it, and the only result with that figure was a Gript piece by McGuirk...and I'd trust my dog to come up with accurate data over him?

Gript is absolute arse fodder

Whether it's 5bn or not (it is billions though), most of it goes to religious organisations providing health and social services, normally in a developed country these services would be run by the state directly.

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Has anyone asked the finance minister if the government are still appealing the apple tax situation or are they willing to accept the money and who knows maybe reduce the debt owed due to the pandemic ?

It was ruled last July that there is no Apple tax money. That case was always a complete crock especially as, if upheld, we would be in effect collecting taxes on behalf of other countries. That is not how corporation tax works and never has been.

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

if you are to direct your ire, I would suggest you do so at the civil servants politicians that are making the decisions

...its the civil servants politicians making the decisions to spend millions on items which may not be the best use of public funds.

fyp :rolleyes:

JPup · 05-03-2021 04:33PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Your point doesn't stand. GNP is not a true measure of our economy. We are overly reliant on the MNC sector for taxes yet an industry that employs more people is closed and will take years to recover.

GNP was also up last year if that makes you feel better!

PommieBast · 05-03-2021 05:24PM

completedit wrote: »

Yeah, I saw FG and Varadkar put up a tweet about Ireland's robost economy and how we were the only economy not to go into recession in 2020 and that's when the actual nonsense of leprechaun economics came home to me.

I would like to know what proportion of the Irish working population is actually in Ireland. Interesting how much income tax is actually being paid from overseas..

punisher5112 · 05-03-2021 06:17PM

What I'd love to see is those that are rolling in billions have to pay tax, much more of it.

Artists tax exempt etc.... Ridiculous

Hotblack Desiato · 05-03-2021 06:35PM

PommieBast wrote: »

I would like to know what proportion of the Irish working population is actually in Ireland. Interesting how much income tax is actually being paid from overseas..

Companies with staff from overseas who went home to work from there have asked them to come back in a lot of cases, they don't want the complication of having staff on their payroll who are not Irish tax resident. Anyway the employer deducts it so it's paid from here...

bosco12345 · 05-03-2021 07:08PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

And water is wet

Expect mass emigration numbers from Ireland once Covid passes

As a guy who has just turned 25 I have already started a plan to get out of this $hithole next year. How the government has handled this pandemic has taken the grá I had for this country away from me. Dark dark days ahead here for the next decade and its time to go

PommieBast · 05-03-2021 08:26PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Companies with staff from overseas who went home to work from there have asked them to come back in a lot of cases, they don't want the complication of having staff on their payroll who are not Irish tax resident. Anyway the employer deducts it so it's paid from here...

How many won't come back though? As-is there is already the loss of trickledown (the actual one, not the Reaganite one), and remote working now has de-facto wider acceptance.

Pinoy adventure · 05-03-2021 08:29PM

bosco12345 wrote: »

As a guy who has just turned 25 I have already started a plan to get out of this $hithole next year. How the government has handled this pandemic has taken the grá I had for this country away from me. Dark dark days ahead here for the next decade and its time to go

Go where though ? Another dark hole

05-03-2021 08:30PM

bosco12345 wrote: »

As a guy who has just turned 25 I have already started a plan to get out of this $hithole next year. How the government has handled this pandemic has taken the grá I had for this country away from me. Dark dark days ahead here for the next decade and its time to go

Where are you thinking of going? I'm keeping my eye on a few countries.

completedit · 05-03-2021 10:14PM

What country except for New Zealame and few east Asian countries has handled the pandemic well?

ThunbergsAreGo · 06-03-2021 07:12AM

bosco12345 wrote: »

As a guy who has just turned 25 I have already started a plan to get out of this $hithole next year. How the government has handled this pandemic has taken the grá I had for this country away from me. Dark dark days ahead here for the next decade and its time to go

Good luck mate, if it wasn't for family I would be gone myself

sebdavis · 06-03-2021 07:15AM

bosco12345 wrote: »

As a guy who has just turned 25 I have already started a plan to get out of this $hithole next year. How the government has handled this pandemic has taken the grá I had for this country away from me. Dark dark days ahead here for the next decade and its time to go

The whole World has ben hit with the pandemic. Every other country is going to have huge issues. Would be interested to hear where you are off to?

completedit wrote: »

What country except for New Zealame and few east Asian countries has handled the pandemic well?

NZ shut the whole country down. They have lost billions. They will also have to pay for it somehow.

ThunbergsAreGo · 06-03-2021 07:21AM

sebdavis wrote: »

The whole World has ben hit with the pandemic. Every other country is going to have huge issues. Would be interested to hear where you are off to?

NZ shut the whole country down. They have lost billions. They will also have to pay for it somehow.

Maybe it more than the pandemic itself. I found the last year has brought out an intolerant nasty side to the Irish people.

The "Man fined for going 5.2km" stories don't help

sebdavis · 06-03-2021 07:31AM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Maybe it more than the pandemic itself. I found the last year has brought out an intolerant nasty side to the Irish people.

The "Man fined for going 5.2km" stories don't help

That was always around. It was just amplified by the virus.
It is all built on begrudgery. Which to be honest Irish people are famous for. God help anyone getting ahead in life, the "we will take him down a peg or two" is the automatic response.

Im in no way saying Ireland is a lovely place, as people we have taken the worst part of american culture and made it our own. Just look at the people who logged a complaint to the Garda after the couple rescued the dog and it was on RTE.

I am saying just don't expect other countries to have similar issues. I have friends all over the World, people have been awful to other people everywhere.

ThunbergsAreGo · 06-03-2021 07:39AM

sebdavis wrote: »

That was always around. It was just amplified by the virus.
It is all built on begrudgery. Which to be honest Irish people are famous for. God help anyone getting ahead in life, the "we will take him down a peg or two" is the automatic response.

Im in no way saying Ireland is a lovely place, as people we have taken the worst part of american culture and made it our own. Just look at the people who logged a complaint to the Garda after the couple rescued the dog and it was on RTE.

I am saying just don't expect other countries to have similar issues. I have friends all over the World, people have been awful to other people everywhere.

Maybe so but I totally understand why a young person would want to get out ASAP.

Its not just the virus, the last year has likely just taken what they like about Ireland away while leaving all the awful things (house prices, cost of living, incompetence)

Can totally see the merit in a fresh start. As above if I was younger with no family I would be looking into the same.

Jim2007 · 06-03-2021 08:04AM

bosco12345 wrote: »

As a guy who has just turned 25 I have already started a plan to get out of this $hithole next year. How the government has handled this pandemic has taken the grá I had for this country away from me. Dark dark days ahead here for the next decade and its time to go

As a 25 year old you have an awful lot to learn about the world and a spell abroad will bring that home to you.

From an economic point of view, Ireland, Germany, Austria and Switzerland will come out of this just fine. The one thing that these countries have in common is that they all regularly produce positive balances of trade. And as any Swiss banker will tell you, so long as you continually sell more than you buy, you will eventually work your way out of financial difficulties. And Ireland has already done this, at the height of the last recession the debt reached 124% and at the beginning of this crisis it was down to 58%. This compares very favorably with Germany at 59%, the UK a 83%, France at 104% and so on.

As for handling the current crisis, nobody was prepared for this and Ireland did no better or no worse than most. But at least I can’t recall at any stage that the hospitals had to stop admitting patients, transfer parents abroad or dope patients up and leave them to die in peace, all of which happened else where in Europe.

Now you and a few more like you can continue to spout the usual nonsense, the problem is it does not match the facts. But like I say, a spell abroad will soon bring that home to you.

punisher5112 · 06-03-2021 08:08AM

Huge tax increases on their way.... USC will never leave us and more levies upon levies and anything else they can think up.....

It will get to the point nobody will be able to afford to retire.....

MouseMan01 · 06-03-2021 08:10AM

Blueshoe wrote: »

The Eu can pay for it. Fire up the printing machine. Just don't tell countries outside the EU and pretend we are all getting hammered by austerity. Lodge the money into Paschal's account in the quiet

The EU or rather the Germanic-Franco axis that seems to pull the strings. Is generally hypersensitive to rampant money printing and the inflationary issues as a result.

I believe German hyperinflation during the Weimar republic era less than 100 years ago was one of the main reasons the German people turned to the Nazis.

sebdavis · 06-03-2021 08:12AM

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Maybe so but I totally understand why a young person would want to get out ASAP.

Its not just the virus, the last year has likely just taken what they like about Ireland away while leaving all the awful things (house prices, cost of living, incompetence)

Can totally see the merit in a fresh start. As above if I was younger with no family I would be looking into the same.

Travel is a good thing, I done my years away when young. Just saying ther majority of the World if not all of it has been hit with Covid. Don't expect to walk into another country and not see tax hits

Wanderer78 · 06-03-2021 08:13AM

MouseMan01 wrote:

The EU or rather the Germanic-Franco axis that seems to pull the strings. Is generally hypersensitive to rampant money printing and the inflationary issues as a result.

What inflation? And some actually be good, as it would inflate wages also

MouseMan01 wrote:

I believe German hyperinflation during the Weimar republic era less than 100 years ago was one of the main reasons the German people turned to the Nazis.

We 're in a deflationary period!

kippy · 06-03-2021 08:17AM

I'd not leave myself. Am relatively well set up however and I'll admit that is a factor.
At 25 the only reason I would have left would have been weather related.
Both my parents left school before 14 and weren't that well off but made sure we had opportunities in education all primarily supported by state funding. Lived in a house built with a council mortgage built back in the 80s. Father left his job as mother got sick in 90, was able to do this because of social welfare.

Granted things are difficult now with housing and health in this country but did everyone who every wanted a house always have a house?

I am also aware that I will need to pay considerably more to have my kids educated than my parents did for us but isn't great to have those opportunities.
Anyway, the grass is rarely greener on the other side especially if that original side is Ireland.

So as far as I am concerned this is a good country to live in relative to the other 90 percent of the world.

That said I do respect someone who will act upon their convictions rather than moan about the way things are. So if you do move aboard poster, the best of luck to you.

MouseMan01 · 06-03-2021 08:19AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What inflation? And some actually be good, as it would inflate wages also

We 're in a deflationary period!

Right. But printing money leads naturally to inflationary pressures.

In other words. The more money people have. The more they can afford to spend on houses, rent, cars, food.

So prices naturally go up.

Wanderer78 · 06-03-2021 08:24AM

MouseMan01 wrote:

Right. But printing money leads naturally to inflationary pressures.

Once again! Where's the inflation?

ThunbergsAreGo · 06-03-2021 08:24AM

sebdavis wrote: »

Travel is a good thing, I done my years away when young. Just saying ther majority of the World if not all of it has been hit with Covid. Don't expect to walk into another country and not see tax hits

No, but they will likely be starting from a lower base.

As you say travel is a good thing, at a minimum you learn something about the world.

How much is this all going to cost and who will pay for it ?

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