2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

awec · 02-03-2021 12:58PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Most companies don't yet know that the "hybrid" approach will work in real life and are just "hoping".

It can't work. How can employees in different teams "collaborate" if one team is out Thursday and Friday and the other team is out Monday and Tuesday.

Companies will quickly realise it's either fully WFH or fully in the office.

A mix of both is absolutely nonsense thinking IMO.

This is another one of your facts that exists only in your head PropQueries. Time and time again you display ignorance of these companies and how they operate.

Hybrid working is nothing new. Many of these companies have been doing it for years. It has worked for years, maybe even decades in some cases. They are changing from WFH being 1 or 2 days a week to going to the office being 1 or 2 days a week. It's just inverting what has already been done.

HansKroenke · 02-03-2021 01:01PM

awec wrote: »

Not really, what we've had is a government imposed forced work from home.

It is going to stay this way until restrictions are lifted and the true nature of the hybrid model reveals itself.

Hybrid work is here to stay, I won't dispute that. People will shift from WFH rarely to doing it often, maybe even the majority of their time.

But if people believe that 100% remote work is going to become the new norm they are going to be really disappointed.

Yes, fair enough. I think we are just in disagreement in respect of the extent to which WFH will look more like a hybrid model or full WFH. Outlining my own situation and experience with close friends as well as from reading the government policy document is why I feel that closer to full WFH is going to be in areas not just limited to Big Tech and will also be seen in more traditional areas like insurance, law, accounting and finance.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 01:03PM

awec wrote: »

This is another one of your facts that exists only in your head PropQueries. Time and time again you display ignorance of these companies and how they operate.

Hybrid working is nothing new. Many of these companies have been doing it for years. It has worked for years, maybe even decades in some cases. They are changing from WFH being 1 or 2 days a week to going to the office being 1 or 2 days a week. It's just inverting what has already been done.

Well, you can either WFH or you can't. There is absolutely no point in forcing workers into the office for two days per week if they can WFH perfectly well the other three days.

For "collaboration", "team building" etc., they can book a meeting room in the Hilton once a month IMO

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 01:03PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Many companies will quickly realise it's either fully WFH or fully in the office.

A mix of both is absolute nonsense thinking IMO.

i couldnt disagree with you more. Some kind of mix will be the future, but anyone i speak to its looking like 3/4 days in 1/2 days FH.

You will have outliers that are happy for everyone to WFH all the time but that experiment wont last either.

HansKroenke · 02-03-2021 01:04PM

fliball123 wrote: »

its not so do you think teachers are going to work from home in future or specialists within the HSE who have been doing zoom calls..It cant work for everyone . A one size fits all is not going to work with working from home. Out of my family members myself and a brother of mine so 2 out of 10 are allowed to work from home after lockdown the other 8 have to go back in to work. I can hazard a guess there will be a lot of people like that.

Yes, of course teachers cannot WFH but normal office jobs which have been full WFH the past year are more likely to stay that way, in my view the hybrid model is what will be used but by "hybrid" I mean minimal time in the office rather than a split of more often than not in the office. The 3/4 days per week in the office will be a maximum and will be optional.

fliball123 · 02-03-2021 01:08PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Well, you can either WFH or you can't. There is absolutely no point in forcing workers into the office for two days per week if they can WFH perfectly well the other three days.

For "collaboration", "team building" etc., they can book a meeting room in the Hilton once a month IMO

The other side of this is I know some people who hate working from home , as has been explained to me. They have no structure, hate being constantly at home and miss being where they work. I think it will be a complete mix going forward.

tigger123 · 02-03-2021 01:09PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Well, you can either WFH or you can't. There is absolutely no point in forcing workers into the office for two days per week if they can WFH perfectly well the other three days.

For "collaboration", "team building" etc., they can book a meeting room in the Hilton once a month IMO

It's not about forcing them in. It's about employees wanting themselves to have a mix. Less commuting and hassle, but still some of the social aspect of working as part of a team. It's quite straightforward.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 01:10PM

HansKroenke wrote: »

Yes, of course teachers cannot WFH but normal office jobs which have been full WFH the past year are more likely to stay that way, in my view the hybrid model is what will be used but by "hybrid" I mean minimal time in the office rather than a split of more often than not in the office. The 3/4 days per week in the office will be a maximum and will be optional.

Actually I think the Hybrid model will be brought in for teachers in the very near future.

Given that all the online homework etc. can be analysed in real time and they can then see what students need extra help etc., the teachers will be primarily available in class two days a week to cater for the e.g. 30% of students who are having difficulties IMO

Everyone benefits.

The extra empty classrooms can then be used as cheap childcare space for other types of workers who can't WFH etc.

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 01:14PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Actually I think the Hybrid model will be brought in for teachers in the very near future.

Given that all the online homework etc. can be analysed in real time and they can then see what students need extra help etc., the teachers will be primarily available in class two days a week to cater for the e.g. 30% of students who are having difficulties IMO

Everyone benefits.

The extra empty classrooms can then be used as cheap childcare space for other types of workers who can't WFH etc.

so kids don't goto school any more either

sorry im out, i know this is just a wind up now.

tigger123 · 02-03-2021 01:14PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Actually I think the Hybrid model will be brought in for teachers in the very near future.

Given that all the online homework etc. can be analysed in real time and they can then see what students need extra help etc., the teachers will be primarily available in class two days a week to cater for the e.g. 30% of students who are having difficulties IMO

Everyone benefits.

The extra empty classrooms can then be used as cheap childcare space for other types of workers who can't WFH etc.

You can't see the hybrid model working for adults.

But it's definitely going to be used to educate children and young people?

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 01:17PM

tigger123 wrote: »

You can't see the hybrid model working for adults.

But it's definitely going to be used to educate children and young people?

Correct.

There's a real benefit from hybrid working in the teaching system. There's absolutely no benefit from hybrid working in a regular office environment IMO.

tigger123 · 02-03-2021 01:25PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Correct.

There's a real benefit from hybrid working in the teaching system. There's absolutely no benefit from hybrid working in a regular office environment IMO.

Have you ever worked yourself as part of a team in a hybrid working set up?

Or tried supervising children who are being educated remotely?

HansKroenke · 02-03-2021 01:27PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/weekly-earnings-rise-by-unprecedented-7-5-but-figures-mask-covid-impact-1.4499012

Trouble brewing and there looks to be a huge job for the government to get the recovery going as soon as possible. On paper, weekly earnings rose by 7.5% for workers last year, but this excluded a quarter of the workforce (600,000) who were not employed or on some sort of income protection payment. With an impending US stimulus due to flood the market, inflation is going to increase, almost certainly. Those 75% of workers will need every penny of their earnings and not have it hoovered up in some form of covid tax.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 01:29PM

tigger123 wrote: »

Have you ever worked yourself as part of a team in a hybrid working set up?

Or tried supervising children who are being educated remotely?

I'm sure families will adjust. Just like when the changeover happened from when women used to stay at home to raise the children and the man went out to work.

Full time WFH and hybrid teaching will be fantastic for raising families and for society in general IMO

tigger123 · 02-03-2021 01:32PM

PropQueries wrote: »

I'm sure families will adjust. Just like when the changeover happened from when women used to stay at home to raise the children and the man went out to work.

Full time WFH and hybrid teaching will be fantastic for raising families and for society in general IMO

Maybe they would. But I am just curious what your own experience of it is? Or what your basing your opinion on.

I can't see anyone anywhere that has said that educating children remotely forever more would be a good idea. If it was, there would be no pressure to get schools back.

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 01:32PM

PropQueries wrote: »

I'm sure families will adjust. Just like when the changeover happened from when women used to stay at home to raise the children and the man went out to work.

Full time WFH and hybrid teaching will be fantastic for raising families and for society in general IMO

maybe everyone should just build massive walls around their houses and never leave, because thats what you are advocating in essence.

Hubertj · 02-03-2021 01:32PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dublin-most-popular-city-for-brexit-relocations-by-financial-firms-1.4498397

Last year some of the experts/spoofers on this thread said all these companies and jobs went elsewhere. Clearly these companies weren’t consulting boards before making such decisions.

JimmyVik · 02-03-2021 01:36PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Correct.

There's a real benefit from hybrid working in the teaching system. There's absolutely no benefit from hybrid working in a regular office environment IMO.

As someone who is teaching and attending course for work since the pandemic started. And also as a parent of a school child.

I can 100% say that remote learning and teaching is the biggest pito since time began.
I hate it. Dont mind working from home, but courses (teaching/learning) and supervising children for school is horrible.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 01:43PM

Cyrus wrote: »

maybe everyone should just build massive walls around their houses and never leave, because thats what you are advocating in essence.

As opposed to pre-covid where people got up at 7 a.m. in the morning, commuted an hour to work, sat down for 8 hours, got up and spent another hour commuting home. Back home at 6.30 p.m., prepared dinner, ate dinner around 7.30 p.m. Then sat down and watched TV for an hour. Went to bed and repeated the whole process again the next day.

What worker lifestyle paradise did you live through for the past 20 years?

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 01:45PM

JimmyVik wrote: »

As someone who is teaching and attending course for work since the pandemic started. And also as a parent of a school child.

I can 100% say that remote learning and teaching is the biggest pito since time began.
I hate it. Dont mind working from home, but courses (teaching/learning) and supervising children for school is horrible.

Then call teachers what you really believe they are. Free childcare.

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 01:47PM

PropQueries wrote: »

As opposed to pre-covid where people got up at 7 a.m. in the morning, commuted an hour to work, sat down for 8 hours, got up and spent another hour commuting home. Back home at 6.30 p.m., prepared dinner, ate dinner around 7.30 p.m. Then sat down and watched TV for an hour. Went to bed and repeated the whole process again the next day.

What worker lifestyle paradise did you live through for the past 20 years?

not sure about you but id be up at 7am regardless, if i am working from home or the office, young kids will see to that.

im not sure what your revised timetable look like, 2 hours of tv instead of 1 is it?

Hubertj · 02-03-2021 01:56PM

I’ll say it again but with the Netherlands making changes that prohibit tourists going to coffee shops and Amsterdam moving the red light district, Ireland should step in. Benefits would be increased tourism to suppport economic recovery - great for hotels and the devil that is Airbnb. On top of that it will generate tax revenue. It would also be good from a property perspective - increased uptake of commercial and industrial premises, retail as well as residential..

Other ideas could be to sell a county. Longford maybe?

DataDude · 02-03-2021 01:59PM

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-neptune-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/4486805

Based on the video it hasn't been touched for a long long time. €1m+ capital value, 6% expected return on risk assets. €60k of value every year being ignored. Have to agree with McWilliams - leaving a house (like this one anyway) derelict is a sign of too much wealth, not too little!

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 02:02PM

Cyrus wrote: »

not sure about you but id be up at 7am regardless, if i am working from home or the office, young kids will see to that.

im not sure what your revised timetable look like, 2 hours of tv instead of 1 is it?

Not at all

Up to 20 years ago, office work was much better. You could at least go for a few pints after work with work colleagues most days and then head home.

Then it all changed. There is little to no after work social life for most of the younger workers in an office in the city anymore. Most have to commute long distances and there are many other activities they would much rather engage in after work (e.g. internet stuff, local sports club etc.) than socialising in the pub with work colleagues after work who may bring up a drunken comment to HR the next day.

The vast majority of younger workers would be better off staying in and developing relationships in their local area than spending ten hours a day between working and commuting to a city centre office when there is no real requirement for them to be there anymore.

awec · 02-03-2021 02:04PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Not at all

Up to 20 years ago, office work was much better. You could at least go for a few pints after work with work colleagues most days and then head home.

Then it all changed. There is little to no after work social life for most of the younger workers in an office in the city anymore. Most have to commute long distances and there are many other activities they would much rather engage in after work (e.g. internet stuff, local sports club etc.) than socialising in the pub with work colleagues after work who may bring up a drunken comment to HR the next day.

The vast majority of younger workers would be better off staying in and developing relationships in their local area than spending ten hours a day between working and commuting to a city centre office when there is no real requirement for them to be there anymore.

I'm sorry PropQueries but some of this stuff is genuinely verging into outright falsehoods.

On the one hand, you are telling us that young people are working in the city paying extortionate rents and they'll be itching to leave. Then on the other hand, young people have long commutes, so I guess they've already left in this version of the story?

Which one is it?

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 02:05PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Not at all

Up to 20 years ago, office work was much better. You could at least go for a few pints after work with work colleagues most days and then head home.

Then it all changed. There is little to no after work social life for most of the younger workers in an office in the city anymore. Most have to commute long distances and there are many other activities they would much rather engage in after work (e.g. internet stuff, local sports club etc.) than socialising in the pub with work colleagues after work who may bring up a drunken comment to HR the next day.

The vast majority of younger workers would be better off staying in and developing relationships in their local area than spending ten hours a day between working and commuting to a city centre office when there is no real requirement for them to be there anymore.

im not sure drinking every day is good for anyone, and not sure how much time you have actually spent in the city centre, but guess what most nights of the week there are people out of after work. How are you so in touch with the socialising habits of younger workers? or not as the case may be.

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 02:06PM

DataDude wrote: »

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-neptune-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/4486805

Based on the video it hasn't been touched for a long long time. €1m+ capital value, 6% expected return on risk assets. €60k of value every year being ignored. Have to agree with McWilliams - leaving a house (like this one anyway) derelict is a sign of too much wealth, not too little!

absolutely,

thats some renovation job required :eek:

Hubertj · 02-03-2021 02:07PM

DataDude wrote: »

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-neptune-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/4486805

Based on the video it hasn't been touched for a long long time. €1m+ capital value, 6% expected return on risk assets. €60k of value every year being ignored. Have to agree with McWilliams - leaving a house (like this one anyway) derelict is a sign of too much wealth, not too little!

I agree. There are a few houses around ballsbridge which are the same. In 2015 someone bought a derelict house on St Mary’s Road for €550k. All they have done since then is board it up. The challenge with Georgian and Victorian houses is the cost of renovation if they are listed. You are supposed to use period materials such as lime plaster etc. If you can’t afford to restore it then don’t buy it. If you don’t do anything with it then the vacant property tax should be used to incentivise to sell etc.

awec · 02-03-2021 02:08PM

DataDude wrote: »

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-neptune-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/4486805

Based on the video it hasn't been touched for a long long time. €1m+ capital value, 6% expected return on risk assets. €60k of value every year being ignored. Have to agree with McWilliams - leaving a house (like this one anyway) derelict is a sign of too much wealth, not too little!

What a shame the state of that place.

02-03-2021 02:08PM

PropQueries wrote: »

Not at all

Up to 20 years ago, office work was much better. You could at least go for a few pints after work with work colleagues most days and then head home.

Then it all changed. There is little to no after work social life for most of the younger workers in an office in the city anymore. Most have to commute long distances and there are many other activities they would much rather engage in after work (e.g. internet stuff, local sports club etc.) than socialising in the pub with work colleagues after work who may bring up a drunken comment to HR the next day.

The vast majority of younger workers would be better off staying in and developing relationships in their local area than spending ten hours a day between working and commuting to a city centre office when there is no real requirement for them to be there anymore.

I think its abundantly clear you do not speak to people in this demographic

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

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2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1