2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

maybe everyone should just build massive walls around their houses and never leave, because thats what you are advocating in essence.

As opposed to pre-covid where people got up at 7 a.m. in the morning, commuted an hour to work, sat down for 8 hours, got up and spent another hour commuting home. Back home at 6.30 p.m., prepared dinner, ate dinner around 7.30 p.m. Then sat down and watched TV for an hour. Went to bed and repeated the whole process again the next day.

What worker lifestyle paradise did you live through for the past 20 years?

PropQueries

JimmyVik wrote: »

As someone who is teaching and attending course for work since the pandemic started. And also as a parent of a school child.


I can 100% say that remote learning and teaching is the biggest pito since time began.
I hate it. Dont mind working from home, but courses (teaching/learning) and supervising children for school is horrible.

Then call teachers what you really believe they are. Free childcare.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

As opposed to pre-covid where people got up at 7 a.m. in the morning, commuted an hour to work, sat down for 8 hours, got up and spent another hour commuting home. Back home at 6.30 p.m., prepared dinner, ate dinner around 7.30 p.m. Then sat down and watched TV for an hour. Went to bed and repeated the whole process again the next day.

What worker lifestyle paradise did you live through for the past 20 years?

not sure about you but id be up at 7am regardless, if i am working from home or the office, young kids will see to that.

im not sure what your revised timetable look like, 2 hours of tv instead of 1 is it?

Hubertj

I’ll say it again but with the Netherlands making changes that prohibit tourists going to coffee shops and Amsterdam moving the red light district, Ireland should step in. Benefits would be increased tourism to suppport economic recovery - great for hotels and the devil that is Airbnb. On top of that it will generate tax revenue. It would also be good from a property perspective - increased uptake of commercial and industrial premises, retail as well as residential..

Other ideas could be to sell a county. Longford maybe?

DataDude

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-neptune-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/4486805

Based on the video it hasn't been touched for a long long time. €1m+ capital value, 6% expected return on risk assets. €60k of value every year being ignored. Have to agree with McWilliams - leaving a house (like this one anyway) derelict is a sign of too much wealth, not too little!

PropQueries

Cyrus wrote: »

not sure about you but id be up at 7am regardless, if i am working from home or the office, young kids will see to that.

im not sure what your revised timetable look like, 2 hours of tv instead of 1 is it?

Not at all

Up to 20 years ago, office work was much better. You could at least go for a few pints after work with work colleagues most days and then head home.

Then it all changed. There is little to no after work social life for most of the younger workers in an office in the city anymore. Most have to commute long distances and there are many other activities they would much rather engage in after work (e.g. internet stuff, local sports club etc.) than socialising in the pub with work colleagues after work who may bring up a drunken comment to HR the next day.

The vast majority of younger workers would be better off staying in and developing relationships in their local area than spending ten hours a day between working and commuting to a city centre office when there is no real requirement for them to be there anymore.

awec

PropQueries wrote: »

Not at all

Up to 20 years ago, office work was much better. You could at least go for a few pints after work with work colleagues most days and then head home.

Then it all changed. There is little to no after work social life for most of the younger workers in an office in the city anymore. Most have to commute long distances and there are many other activities they would much rather engage in after work (e.g. internet stuff, local sports club etc.) than socialising in the pub with work colleagues after work who may bring up a drunken comment to HR the next day.

The vast majority of younger workers would be better off staying in and developing relationships in their local area than spending ten hours a day between working and commuting to a city centre office when there is no real requirement for them to be there anymore.

I'm sorry PropQueries but some of this stuff is genuinely verging into outright falsehoods.

On the one hand, you are telling us that young people are working in the city paying extortionate rents and they'll be itching to leave. Then on the other hand, young people have long commutes, so I guess they've already left in this version of the story?

Which one is it?

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Not at all

Up to 20 years ago, office work was much better. You could at least go for a few pints after work with work colleagues most days and then head home.

Then it all changed. There is little to no after work social life for most of the younger workers in an office in the city anymore. Most have to commute long distances and there are many other activities they would much rather engage in after work (e.g. internet stuff, local sports club etc.) than socialising in the pub with work colleagues after work who may bring up a drunken comment to HR the next day.

The vast majority of younger workers would be better off staying in and developing relationships in their local area than spending ten hours a day between working and commuting to a city centre office when there is no real requirement for them to be there anymore.

im not sure drinking every day is good for anyone, and not sure how much time you have actually spent in the city centre, but guess what most nights of the week there are people out of after work. How are you so in touch with the socialising habits of younger workers? or not as the case may be.

Cyrus

DataDude wrote: »

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-neptune-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/4486805

Based on the video it hasn't been touched for a long long time. €1m+ capital value, 6% expected return on risk assets. €60k of value every year being ignored. Have to agree with McWilliams - leaving a house (like this one anyway) derelict is a sign of too much wealth, not too little!

absolutely,

thats some renovation job required :eek:

Hubertj

DataDude wrote: »

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-neptune-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/4486805

Based on the video it hasn't been touched for a long long time. €1m+ capital value, 6% expected return on risk assets. €60k of value every year being ignored. Have to agree with McWilliams - leaving a house (like this one anyway) derelict is a sign of too much wealth, not too little!

I agree. There are a few houses around ballsbridge which are the same. In 2015 someone bought a derelict house on St Mary’s Road for €550k. All they have done since then is board it up. The challenge with Georgian and Victorian houses is the cost of renovation if they are listed. You are supposed to use period materials such as lime plaster etc. If you can’t afford to restore it then don’t buy it. If you don’t do anything with it then the vacant property tax should be used to incentivise to sell etc.

awec

DataDude wrote: »

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/3-neptune-terrace-breffni-road-sandycove-co-dublin/4486805

Based on the video it hasn't been touched for a long long time. €1m+ capital value, 6% expected return on risk assets. €60k of value every year being ignored. Have to agree with McWilliams - leaving a house (like this one anyway) derelict is a sign of too much wealth, not too little!

What a shame the state of that place.

AdamD

PropQueries wrote: »

Not at all

Up to 20 years ago, office work was much better. You could at least go for a few pints after work with work colleagues most days and then head home.

Then it all changed. There is little to no after work social life for most of the younger workers in an office in the city anymore. Most have to commute long distances and there are many other activities they would much rather engage in after work (e.g. internet stuff, local sports club etc.) than socialising in the pub with work colleagues after work who may bring up a drunken comment to HR the next day.

The vast majority of younger workers would be better off staying in and developing relationships in their local area than spending ten hours a day between working and commuting to a city centre office when there is no real requirement for them to be there anymore.

I think its abundantly clear you do not speak to people in this demographic

PropQueries

awec wrote: »

I'm sorry PropQueries but some of this stuff is genuinely verging into outright falsehoods.

On the one hand, you are telling us that young people are working in the city paying extortionate rents and they'll be itching to leave. Then on the other hand, young people have long commutes, so I guess they've already left in this version of the story?

Which one is it?

People in their early 20s generally decide to live nearer their work if they're from outside Dublin. Then once they get used to the city, they move further and further away.

PropQueries

AdamD wrote: »

I think its abundantly clear you do not speak to people in this demographic

What exactly do people in their 30's working in an office in the city centre do with their work colleagues after work each and every day Monday to Friday?

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

I agree. There are a few houses around ballsbridge which are the same. In 2015 someone bought a derelict house on St Mary’s Road for €550k. All they have done since then is board it up. The challenge with Georgian and Victorian houses is the cost of renovation if they are listed. You are supposed to use period materials such as lime plaster etc. If you can’t afford to restore it then don’t buy it. If you don’t do anything with it then the vacant property tax should be used to incentivise to sell etc.

If they purchased it in 2015 and it's still boarded up, it's most likely a vulture fund (or similar) purchase as part of a bigger portfolio of properties IMO

A regular cash investor most likely wouldn't invest €500,000 of their own money and then leave the property boarded up and empty for the next 6 years IMO

AdamD

PropQueries wrote: »

What exactly do people in their 30's working in an office in the city centre do with their work colleagues after work each and every day Monday to Friday?

Younger workers in offices - would be 20s.

And the answer? Pints, and it doesn't need to be each and every day. These people aren't commuting long distances, they're living in houseshares close to the city.

I actually know people who moved to the country during lockdown and have already moved back up to Dublin for more of a social life, and others planning to in the coming months, despite work not even requiring them to be back.

PropQueries

AdamD wrote: »

Younger workers in offices - would be 20s.

And the answer? Pints, and it doesn't need to be each and every day. These people aren't commuting long distances, they're living in houseshares close to the city.

I actually know people who moved to the country during lockdown and have already moved back up to Dublin for more of a social life, and others planning to in the coming months, despite work not even requiring them to be back.

Of course. But they're the next FTB. Will they be spending €600k on a house near the city or €250k back in their home town when the time comes to settle down and start a family? Especially now that they may have that very real option.

You take the FTB out of the equation and the ponzi scheme collapses IMO

PommieBast

DataDude wrote: »

I know vacant/derelict property taxes are fairly contentious on here, but to me letting something this wonderful, in such an amazing location fall to pieces constitutes something bordering on cultural vandalism!

I think you will enjoy Who'd live in a house like this

TheSheriff

PropQueries wrote: »

Of course. But they're the next FTB. Will they be spending €600k on a house near the city or €250k back in their home town when the time comes to settle down and start a family? Especially now that they may have that very real option.

You take the FTB out of the equation and the ponzi scheme collapses IMO

If they can afford it, and some can.... Yes, they will.

PropQueries

TheSheriff wrote: »

If they can afford it, and some can.... Yes, they will.

Maybe. But we're then reliant on two things remaining constant indefinitely i.e. that the new OECD global tax rules will have no impact on future FDI into Ireland and that the state can keep borrowing to keep paying the relatively high salaries of our exiting public servants.

They're primarily the only two groups who can get a mortgage to pay c. €500k for a home near the city.

Having said that, the IDA states that the average salary in their client companies is c. €66,000 so the whole housing market within the city is probably more dependent upon the state being able to borrow indefinitely to continue paying public sector workers their current salaries IMO

But then again, both Cairn Homes and Glenveagh's average selling price last year was c. €350k and c. €311k respectively.

Cyrus

PropQueries wrote: »

Maybe. But we're then reliant on two things remaining constant indefinitely i.e. that the new OECD global tax rules will have no impact on future FDI into Ireland and that the state can keep borrowing to keep paying the relatively high salaries of our exiting public servants.

They're primarily the only two groups who can get a mortgage to pay c. €500k for a home near the city.

Having said that, the IDA states that the average salary in their client companies is c. €66,000 so the whole housing market within the city is probably more dependent upon the state being able to borrow indefinitely to continue paying public sector workers their current salaries IMO

But then again, both Cairn Homes and Glenveagh's average selling price last year was c. €350k and c. €311k respectively.

What do you think public sector workers are getting paid that’s holding the housing market up? And which ones are they ?

I presume cairn and glenveagh are selling houses all around the country so what’s the relevance of their average selling price in the context of your post ?

HansKroenke

Hubertj wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dublin-most-popular-city-for-brexit-relocations-by-financial-firms-1.4498397

Last year some of the experts/spoofers on this thread said all these companies and jobs went elsewhere. Clearly these companies weren’t consulting boards before making such decisions.

This is only the beginning. From what I can see, a lot of firms didn't quite grasp what Brexit meant and are only now looking at the consequences. Our benefit for sure in Ireland as the UK is going to suffer from Brexit. It's a bit of a smoke and mirrors trick at the moment to use covid as a way of disguising the fallout from Brexit but once covid subsides, Brexit will be allowed to run its course. I have certainly noticed in my area, a few more jobs listed in the last few weeks with companies which are looking to bolster physical presence in the EU.

PommieBast wrote: »

I think you will enjoy Who'd live in a house like this

Haha wow what a thread.

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/duplex-eyre-square-centre-co-galway/1355326

One bathroom? Not a problem!

Hubertj wrote: »

I’ll say it again but with the Netherlands making changes that prohibit tourists going to coffee shops and Amsterdam moving the red light district, Ireland should step in. Benefits would be increased tourism to suppport economic recovery - great for hotels and the devil that is Airbnb. On top of that it will generate tax revenue. It would also be good from a property perspective - increased uptake of commercial and industrial premises, retail as well as residential..

Other ideas could be to sell a county. Longford maybe?

Is that you David McWilliams?

I can see the IT headline on Saturday; "Red Longford District; Amsterdam by the Shannon".

cnocbui

Cyrus wrote: »

absolutely,

thats some renovation job required :eek:

I've got worse. :cool:

TheSheriff

PropQueries wrote: »

Maybe. But we're then reliant on two things remaining constant indefinitely i.e. that the new OECD global tax rules will have no impact on future FDI into Ireland and that the state can keep borrowing to keep paying the relatively high salaries of our exiting public servants.

They're primarily the only two groups who can get a mortgage to pay c. €500k for a home near the city.

Having said that, the IDA states that the average salary in their client companies is c. €66,000 so the whole housing market within the city is probably more dependent upon the state being able to borrow indefinitely to continue paying public sector workers their current salaries IMO

But then again, both Cairn Homes and Glenveagh's average selling price last year was c. €350k and c. €311k respectively.

Not maybe, it's yes.

We are an example of one such couple.

No matter how many times you churn out these statistics that 'cairn homes average selling price is 350k" it doesn't change the fact that houses in the area we like are 600k and we can afford to pay this. These houses are still selling, you make it out like they are not.

These posts are gas lighting at there finest, keep hammering home the same statistic in the hopes it will stick.

We can buy a house back where we are from for 150k, we could buy it in cash. But no, we want to mortgage up and buy one for 600k, and guess why? In contrast to what you repeatedly post, not everyone is trying to escape Dublin, the main economic centre of the country.

These posts are filled with the same suppositions which have been consistently argued against, and evidence presented against them.

I hope you get that house in Dartry you are after at a rock bottom price (or was is over on property pin you posted this?).

Villa05

HansKroenke wrote:

Trouble brewing and there looks to be a huge job for the government to get the recovery going as soon as possible. On paper, weekly earnings rose by 7.5% for workers last year, but this excluded a quarter of the workforce (600,000) who were not employed or on some sort of income protection payment. With an impending US stimulus due to flood the market, inflation is going to increase, almost certainly. Those 75% of workers will need every penny of their earnings and not have it hoovered up in some form of covid tax.

Highlights a big divide in income. McWilliams is spot on with the need for a 2 tier housing market
1 as is and
2 co operative housing on a large scale.

We can't have so many people on such low incomes and a housing market that has its boot on there necks extracting the maximum rent out of them

Sewing the seeds of revolution

cnocbui

PropQueries wrote: »

I'm sure families will adjust. Just like when the changeover happened from when women used to stay at home to raise the children and the man went out to work.

Full time WFH and hybrid teaching will be fantastic for raising families and for society in general IMO

You are talking out of your backside, as per usual. Ex is a university lecturer and my daughter is at college, both hate the remote teaching/learning experience with a passion. The current arrangments won't last a minute past lockdown mania ending.

optogirl

cnocbui wrote: »

You are talking out of your backside, as per usual. Ex is a university lecturer and my daughter is at college, both hate the remote teaching/learning experience with a passion. The current arrangments won't last a minute past lockdown mania ending.

totally agree. Home/Remote schooling is no substitute for hands on learning & the social education that school provides. It also needs available adults - not Mams and Dads dashing between their own work meetings/duties and trying to fit 3rd class equivalent equations and the modh coinníollach in too.

MacronvFrugals

This is an unbelievable stat -

"We know that pre-pandemic rents are at their highest rates ever, running between 48% and 68% of the median wage in Dublin."

https://villagemagazine.ie/inequality-is-rising-in-ireland/

PropQueries

TheSheriff wrote: »

Not maybe, it's yes.

We are an example of one such couple.

No matter how many times you churn out these statistics that 'cairn homes average selling price is 350k" it doesn't change the fact that houses in the area we like are 600k and we can afford to pay this. These houses are still selling, you make it out like they are not.

These posts are gas lighting at there finest, keep hammering home the same statistic in the hopes it will stick.

We can buy a house back where we are from for 150k, we could buy it in cash. But no, we want to mortgage up and buy one for 600k, and guess why? In contrast to what you repeatedly post, not everyone is trying to escape Dublin, the main economic centre of the country.

These posts are filled with the same suppositions which have been consistently argued against, and evidence presented against them.

I hope you get that house in Dartry you are after at a rock bottom price (or was is over on property pin you posted this?).

Firstly, I obviously didn’t know you had recently “mortgaged up” to buy a c. €600k home.

I’m in the very small percentage of people who believe such a property will most likely be worth c. €250k or less in two years so you shouldn’t be too worried about my predictions

If I’m wrong, that’s good for you. If I’m right, then it’s good for the next family trying to start their life.

Someone wins whether I’m right or wrong either way

Hubertj

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

This is an unbelievable stat -

"We know that pre-pandemic rents are at their highest rates ever, running between 48% and 68% of the median wage in Dublin."

https://villagemagazine.ie/inequality-is-rising-in-ireland/

I’ll stick to CSO data instead of any bol*ox a trade union will come out with. It’s no different to taking reports from other vested interests. Unions are a pet of the problem in this country.