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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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    #242
    GooseB
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭GooseB


    I'm going to write something up myself, just haven't gotten around to it but will be something similar to what you've written.

    I think standard letters/emails that are just copy paste jobs sent in from everyone just immediately get binned. I also think that the recipients on reading these just say to themselves - "they can't care much for their sport if they can't even be arsed to string a few of their own words together".

    The shotgunners I spoke to prior to the previous ban getting voted through were, to a man, unaware of even the ECHA proposal being made. Hadn't a clue. I'd say the vast majority of shooters at the moment are the same with the latest ban proposal.

    I wrote to the International Shooting Sports Federation (ISSF) and the European Shooting Confederation (ESC) during the week and asked them if they'd consider publishing something about this on their official websites and social media outlets just to spread the word around so shooters can be made aware. I also asked them if they'd contact their affiliated national bodies in each affected EU member state (eg: here it would be Target Shooting Ireland) and fill them in and ask them to spread the word via their own local website and social media. Basically a top down approach to spread the information, maybe get more people aware and angered into writing to their MEPs. I also asked why the ISSF hadn't offered any updates to this existential threat in the last 12 months, nothing....

    Sadly, no reply. They have their heads in the sand:(

    I don't know anything about hunting so maybe some hunters can contact their relevant bodies since they have a better grasp on it?

    Also, this ban is getting passed - no doubt about it. The MEP's are clueless on the issues, anything gun related to them is bad and they'll vote against it. Basically they'll vote in favour of what's put in front of them so they don't have to think too much about something they don't care about. I think the best we can hope for is to try and get certain derogations for particular issues entered into the final ECHA proposal that the MEP's just rubber stamp.

    Edit: This website hasn't been bad for reporting the lead ban related stuff - all4shooters.com. There's a virtual IWA Trade Fair being held next month - basically a hunting, target and outdoors trade show. The editorial team are there and in their article on the matter they stated "Do you have manufacturers or topics of particular interest to you, just drop us a line at info@all4shooters.com or our social media channels." I wrote in asking them to bring up the ECHA lead ban with anyone they can, arms makers, ammunition manufacturers, etc. along with a list of other lead related questions. Hopefully they get enough requesting them to ask lead ban related questions that they'll put some forward.

    https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/culture/iwa-studio-edition-on-12-3-2021-the-innovative-online-event-for-the-firearms-industry/


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    #243
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    alan0387 wrote: »
    First I


    This is the view due to the fact that the proposal calls for shotguns to move to steel shot. This causes a multitude of problems. First, the vast majority of shotguns CANNOT be reproofed (essentially recertified) for steel shot. Only much newer, and far more expensive shotguns can be reproofed. This essentially outlaws and renders these shotguns useless. Secondly, there is no proof house in Ireland. It is based in the UK and opens up import and export problems on top of UK certifications not being valid within the EU due to Brexit. Even sending to a proof house within Europe is expensive and unrealistic.

    Should add this...
    It is therefore incumbent and mandatory under EU legislation that the Irish Govt must provide this service to Irish gun owners and manufacturers of a proof house and facilities, as the UK is now no longer an EU member for Ireland to be equal with EU firearms legislation. The situation now is the equivalency of the Irish motorist having to travel to mainland Europe to acquire an NCT test to comply with EU legislation on safe and roadworthy vechicles. Even for those people who might wish to render a firearm deactivated to now mandatory EU standards of deactivation,it is impossible to do such in the current Irish situation and EU legislation.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #244
    solarwinds
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭solarwinds


    I have always thought but I do not have the ability to write it coherently that the argument of non lead ammunition is not as effective is a lost argument.
    You can explain until you are blue in the face that your 100 year old SxS will not fire steel shot, the answer, "thats not my problem just buy one that can", but that is very expensive, "so what, if you want shoot there is your alternative".
    You can also explain that rifle ammo alternatives will not have the killing power, will not have the range and be more susceptible to ricochet, the answer there, "well if you cannot humanely dispatch your quarry then dont shoot, if your rifle cannot reach out to 1000yrds then just shoot at 500yrds".
    They are smart enough to say we are not stopping you from shooting as the argument is there are lead alternatives, whether they work or not is irrelevant to them, the option is there and that is all they care about.
    In my opinion the focus should be more on the figures like above which states that a small percentage of lead based ammo goes to civilian use of the thousands of tonnes of lead based products produced annually.
    If the basis of the argument is environmental protection then what if anything is being done to withdraw the remainder of lead based products from the market ?.
    As the largest consumer of lead based ammo what are the different countries militaries doing to seek alternatives, this would have the largest and quickest reduction of a countries lead footprint in ammo usage ?.
    This is a gun grab pure and simple but the argument of non lead ammo is rubbish and I cant use my guns won't fly that is exactly what they want.
    Thats my two cents worth anyway.
    None of this is going to make a blind bit of difference, the EU will get what they want anyway. But it may just open some members eyes as to what is really happening and the underhanded cloak and dagger way certain people manipulate other countries to bend to their will, all of these things always start with one person and their views on how we should all live.


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    #245
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    solarwinds wrote: »
    I have always thought but I do not have the ability to write it coherently that the argument of non lead ammunition is not as effective is a lost argument.
    You can explain until you are blue in the face that your 100 year old SxS will not fire steel shot, the answer, "thats not my problem just buy one that can", but that is very expensive, "so what, if you want shoot there is your alternative".

    None of this is going to make a blind bit of difference, the EU will get what they want anyway. But it may just open some members eyes as to what is really happening and the underhanded cloak and dagger way certain people manipulate other countries to bend to their will, all of these things always start with one person and their views on how we should all live.

    My side by sides are over 100 years old and i love them and when i bought one (was given the other as a present), i knew i didn't want to change guns again and i haven't and don't. There is supposed to be a steel load thats ok for older guns, its designed for them, but i remain skeptical. Guns are a personal thing, swapping one for another like television sets isn't really on.

    As for the EU, yes they will get what they want, but their handling of the virus has opened some peoples eyes to the inefficiency of that lot.


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    #246
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    alan0387 wrote: »
    First I





    Should add this...
    It is therefore incumbent and mandatory under EU legislation that the Irish Govt must provide this service to Irish gun owners and manufacturers of a proof house and facilities, as the UK is now no longer an EU member for Ireland to be equal with EU firearms legislation. The situation now is the equivalency of the Irish motorist having to travel to mainland Europe to acquire an NCT test to comply with EU legislation on safe and roadworthy vechicles. Even for those people who might wish to render a firearm deactivated to now mandatory EU standards of deactivation,it is impossible to do such in the current Irish situation and EU legislation.

    It would be a handy little business for someone, or a sideline for a gundealer. What do you need really ? A small industrial unit/shed. A way of loading shotgun cartridges to a higher pressure reliably, a set of stamps for marking, and a way of recording guns you have tested.


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    #247
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    tudderone wrote: »
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »

    It would be a handy little business for someone, or a sideline for a gundealer. What do you need really ? A small industrial unit/shed. A way of loading shotgun cartridges to a higher pressure reliably, a set of stamps for marking, and a way of recording guns you have tested.

    And a qualification as a master proofer from one of the EU countries!
    Its alot more than just loading guns with over pressure loads,a degree in engineering is pretty helpful as well.
    Its the main reason that our proof laws never really went anywhere because the govt didnt want to employ a Birmingham master proofer in the 70s.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #248
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    tudderone wrote: »

    And a qualification as a master proofer from one of the EU countries!
    Its alot more than just loading guns with over pressure loads,a degree in engineering is pretty helpful as well.
    Its the main reason that our proof laws never really went anywhere because the govt didnt want to employ a Birmingham master proofer in the 70s.

    You'll need a degree to work the checkout in Dunnes soon. I work/ed in two colleges with mechanical engineering students. One asian student i was working with had next to zero English, had as much idea of engineering as i do higher astrophysics, was hopeless because he was working on the qt in a relations shop, and he still got his degree !

    I would have far more faith in a good practically trained barrel maker from Westley Richards, Holland and Holland, or FN in Leige, doing the work.

    Anyway apart from a couple of hundred to maybe a few thousand older shotguns in Ireland, is it even worth it to have a proof house here ? Most lads are shooting newish guns which are probably steel proof anyway.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q42lZqH-60


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    #249
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Hi,

    I think we should press the likes of Sport Ireland, Tourism Ireland etc. to help promote our sport, in a positive light, and aid its development.

    I've started a seperate thread, asking if anyone knows of any financial aid, or other supports, provided by Sports Ireland, to the shooting world. I know what I suspect the answer is, but thought it best to ask everyone here, before suggesting that we start pressing them to give us a rightful share, of whatever funding is available.

    Tourism Ireland will be trying to promote Ireland hard, once the lockdown ends, and are capable of helping us too - by simply including a little bit on a few target shooting clubs, for example. I would rather they don't promote hunting, as that's likely to just bring people over who want to shoot everything that moves, without giving anything back, to restock the various species.

    Thanks,

    G.



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    #250
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Moved all the substitution talk to its thread, here.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #251
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,607 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I'm not sure if this comment belongs here however...

    Grizz talking about the CZ Shadow got me thinking about a friend over the border with a CZ handgun. Along with reloading, if they can do it safely up the road surely we can to.

    Edit - feckin' depress ya at times:(

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #252
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Indeed...That here is this utter paradox of gun ownership on the island is the ignored giant woolly mammoth in the room.
    NI, one of the few EU countries/regions [?] where concealed carry permits are somewhat easy to obtain,for self-defence purposes. Up to and including full auto if the chief constable deems it a necessity.
    Pistol shooting, reloading, black powder shooting, semi-auto"rifle"* shooting making a comeback,IPSC not a problem.A larger amount of guns held in NI than in the 26...Virtually zero guncrime[excluding paramilitary/terrorist ]
    Apart from silly things like registering magazines as firearms purchases...Which is on hold. Makes us look like East Germans looking at the bright lights of capitalist western Berlin in the 1970s down here.
    *[More like pistol carbines or PDW style thingies]

    Down South
    None of the above really...Except for the highest criminal misuse of firearms in the entire EU and the strictest gun laws in the EU now that the UK is gone.
    Really wonder how our crowd would ever intend to square this circle? Esp as those concealed carries are were issued due to the risk of attack by subversives on endangered personnel,as the RUC/PSNI could never offer police protection to all involved.Wonder how all of that will fare out once we get the "4th green field "back?:rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #253
    GooseB
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭GooseB


    On the topic of the above - Forgotten Weapons did a video a few months ago on Walther .22 personal defense pistols issued not to civilians but to off duty members of the UDR.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isej7X4CHjE


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    #254
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Hi,

    Is anyone going to try and run with any of the ideas / suggestions made on this thread?

    While its been quite interesting to read parts of the thread, it would be a hell of a lot better, if something really positive, were to emerge from it.

    Thanks,

    G.



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    #255
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    garrettod wrote: »
    Is anyone going to try and run with any of the ideas / suggestions made on this thread?
    This will be a group AND individual job. Both are needed, but timing is important.

    How do you think any approach will be viewed, now, considering the current climate and situation with covid, etc. We will not be laughed away but utterly dismissed.

    This thread is a chance to brainstorm and prepare.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #256
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Cass wrote: »
    This will be a group AND individual job. Both are needed, but timing is important.

    How do you think any approach will be viewed, now, considering the current climate and situation with covid, etc. We will not be laughed away but utterly dismissed.

    This thread is a chance to brainstorm and prepare.

    All true Cass,

    But organising groups, agreeing strategies and objectives etc. also take a lot of time :)

    If and when the time comes, if I can do something to help, please let me know.

    Thanks,

    G.



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    #257
    kellbag91
    Registered Users Posts: 99 ✭✭kellbag91


    Wonder how all of that will fare out once we get the "4th green field "back?

    I've often wondered is that the loophole we have been looking for, granted its a stretch but I couldn't see some of the other crowd handing up their legally held pistols without a fight. A win for everyone.


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    #258
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭jb88


    Europe's Second largest lead mine is in Tara Mines Co Meath. "They dont cause any environmental damage to the locality".
    No fear of them banning that.

    I think it will be one of those directives, largely ignored when implemented, yes you will be threatened with a large fine or Jail time as per the norm, but in reality it will be the same BS as many other things in our society.

    Nothing much was ever solved on a shooting thread on boards, yes a bit like in reality,.
    I havent heard of anyone approaching their MEP DIRECTLY, as in Phone call??


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    #259
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    jb88 wrote: »
    Europe's Second largest lead mine is in Tara Mines Co Meath. "They dont cause any environmental damage to the locality".
    No fear of them banning that.

    I think it will be one of those directives, largely ignored when implemented, yes you will be threatened with a large fine or Jail time as per the norm, but in reality it will be the same BS as many other things in our society.

    Nothing much was ever solved on a shooting thread on boards, yes a bit like in reality,.
    I havent heard of anyone approaching their MEP DIRECTLY, as in Phone call??

    You'd want to read back a bit, one lad here went out of his way to contact his MEP directly, Not interested in the slightest. All anyone seems to get back from their MEP is a standard email with the usual platitudes. MEP is a misnomer anyway, Member of the European parliament, its not a parliament, its only there to provide an illusion of Democracy and to rubber stamp whatever the commission decides, thats all. The real power is the unelected commission, which meet in secret, nothing is recorded as far as i know. Its like if our Seanad had the power and the Dail was a window dressing exercise.


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    #260
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    kellbag91 wrote: »
    Wonder how all of that will fare out once we get the "4th green field "back?

    I've often wondered is that the loophole we have been looking for, granted its a stretch but I couldn't see some of the other crowd handing up their legally held pistols without a fight. A win for everyone.

    It certainly is;but not at this particular moment in time. Reality has to slap them in the face first that once we get over the two-month-long hangovers,and finally stop singing a nation once again..we have to LIVE with and govern these people,and this will be one of many problems that will have to be sorted.
    Like will the AGS have to become armed or reworked into a new 32 county police force? Just another teaser...

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #261
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    jb88 wrote: »
    Europe's Second largest lead mine is in Tara Mines Co Meath. "They dont cause any environmental damage to the locality".
    No fear of them banning that.

    Verry intresting to know that!
    I think it will be one of those directives, largely ignored when implemented, yes you will be threatened with a large fine or Jail time as per the norm, but in reality it will be the same BS as many other things in our society.

    Won't happen like that. As it is unenforceable by such. We don't have enough NPWS/AGS to be out tramping the fields and foreshores with magnets to check our ammo. Once the blanket bans the production of lead ammo, it just becomes a question of time and dieback until we run out of lead shot or ammo.
    even reloading will become a thing of the past, as you need totally different equipment to reload non lead ammo. If that technology doesn't make it to the civilian market...

    I haven't heard of anyone approaching their MEP DIRECTLY, as in Phone call??
    Been there, seen it ,done it, bought the T-shirt, and the Tshirt stand... Waste of time with the current Irish MEP crop.
    Half are Watermelons or Socialist Lefties,[bar Ming who has swung hot&cold on these issues] who are anti-gun and hunting. The other half aren't interested unless you are going to bring a few million euros to the table and jobs to Munster to keep their asses voted into Brussels.:mad:
    Got better responses from German , Polish,Czech, Hungarian,pro-hunting/shooting MEPS than from our own lot.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #262
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »

    Verry intresting to know that!



    Won't happen like that. As it is unenforceable by such. We don't have enough NPWS/AGS to be out tramping the fields and foreshores with magnets to check our ammo. Once the blanket bans the production of lead ammo, it just becomes a question of time and dieback until we run out of lead shot or ammo.
    even reloading will become a thing of the past, as you need totally different equipment to reload non lead ammo. If that technology doesn't make it to the civilian market...



    Never knew that, but i don't know a lot about reloading anyway.


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    #263
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Neither did I until last night.YT video on reloading .22lr ammo mentioned it.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #264
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Found this webpage today.
    Ok, it reeks somewhat of UK damp tweed with a bit of gammon...I quite like the format in that it covers the countryside from a country dwellers perspective.

    So am wondering would this be a way to go with an online mag from an Irish perspective? Not just covering shooting and field sports,but also country life in general?


    https://countrysquire.co.uk/about/

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #265
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,607 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Found this webpage today.
    Ok, it reeks somewhat of UK damp tweed with a bit of gammon...I quite like the format in that it covers the countryside from a country dwellers perspective.

    So am wondering would this be a way to go with an online mag from an Irish perspective? Not just covering shooting and field sports,but also country life in general?


    https://countrysquire.co.uk/about/

    :D:D:D

    Beer all over keyboard!

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #266
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Every roof in this country that has a "valley" in it has lead sealing the valley, which the rain washes over before going back into the ground and the water table.
    Would there not therefore be an onus on the Govt to also ban all lead on roof's, and bring out a grant scheme to retro fit alloy or stainless steel?


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    #267
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Yeah ..THAT will be fun on listed historical buildings and churches. Replacing over 100-year-old 4mm sheet lead with replacement lead-free stuff.:rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #268
    delboythedub
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭delboythedub


    The next I renew my licence it will be my 52nd time ,that's how long I have been shooting. In the 70s I thought all was lost as regards shooting sports. when I see all the Rifle clubs and the pistol clubs/ clay clubs that are around today I am amazed how they managed to keep our sport going so strongly and fair play to all involved. There will always be issues regarding new rules on firearms and that's why we all need to stick together and I'll wait and see how our fellow Europeans address this lead ban


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    #269
    tudderone
    Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    delboythedub wrote: »
    The next I renew my licence it will be my 52nd time ,that's how long I have been shooting. In the 70s I thought all was lost as regards shooting sports. when I see all the Rifle clubs and the pistol clubs/ clay clubs that are around today I am amazed how they managed to keep our sport going so strongly and fair play to all involved. There will always be issues regarding new rules on firearms and that's why we all need to stick together and I'll wait and see how our fellow Europeans address this lead ban

    It'll be the big countries like Germany, France, Poland or Italy, that have the best chance of rearing up and getting this nonsense sorted out.


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    #270
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,951 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    You need the Big two[Germany,France] to change, but unfortunately,that's where this sad sht originated from in the 1st place.:(

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #271
    dto001
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭dto001


    I’ve seen a post on FB in one of the UK groups about them setting up a religion called “Free church of country sports”.
    I kind of laughed at it initially but it would be a good idea IN THEORY as every time something was done to stop hunting etc religious persecution could be claimed. Apparently over there the need 8000 people to have a recognised religion and they are pushing for it to be able to put it in the census that is due over there.
    I’m keeping an eye on this as the vegan opened the doors with his court case saying veganism is a spiritual belief or some such thing but it works both ways.

    Cheers


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