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Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

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  • #1142
    Rockfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Rockfish


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    Can I ask a genuine question please?

    The Indo is reporting today that 'the far right is insidiously working to encourage business owners to defy the regulations'.

    How does the Indo know these people are 'far right'?

    And what is insidious about protest?

    Surely we need someone to offer an alternative view to the current cozy consensus.

    Many self employed people are truly desperate for their businesses to survive. The common denominator between RTE, the politicians, NPHET and AGS is the full-time pensionable jobs.

    I am suspicious when all protests to the draconian restrictions are automatically labelled 'far right' and 'insidious'....

    Protests have not being labelled 'far right' nor has protest being described as 'insidious' but often the people bhind them are far right groups and individuals who are insdidous. Ids there any name or contact numb er to the Tralee leaflets?


  • #1143
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Martin gave the proportion vaccinated by certain dates up to September. Boris is a glorious spoofer and that is a hopeful date, not a guaranteed fixed one.

    The portrayal of Boris as a 'spoofer' is wearing thin.......

    More than 18 million people in the UK have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine - part of the biggest inoculation programme the country has ever launched. The number of first doses administered each day had been steadily climbing since December - reaching more than 400,000 a day mid-February.(BBC)

    Ireland vaccines administered to date 359,616 (as of today)


  • #1144
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    So I guess you wont be voting ff or fg again then?

    Never have never will


  • #1145
    mcburns07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    hmmm wrote: »
    Not quite that simple. Chris Whitty in the UK has said he thinks restrictions may be needed over Winter
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-some-covid-restrictions-could-return-next-winter-chief-medical-officer-warns-12180133

    US experts are saying the same
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/2021-01-08-covid-live-updates-vaccine-news-n1253431/ncrd1253481#blogHeader

    We might need some restrictions next Winter just out of caution - I'm expecting people may be encouraged to work at home, not go to work if sick, perhaps table-service only in pubs. It shouldn't hopefully need to be lockdowns unless something goes badly wrong.

    Rather than "just out of caution", wouldn't any restrictions / measures be in response to an outbreak as opposed to applied widely?


  • #1146
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Rockfish wrote: »
    Protests have not being labelled 'far right' nor has protest being described as 'insidious' but often the people bhind them are far right groups and individuals who are insdidous. Ids there any name or contact numb er to the Tralee leaflets?

    Tralee Leaflets ?


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  • #1147
    Tyrone212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Tyrone212


    A gym owner in Buncrana has been fined 2,500 for opening his gym. Overwhelming majority of posters supporting him on Donegal Daily.

    I thought he opened recently and with people being fed up were siding with him. However, he has been open since the first week of December. Stating people were asking him to open for their mental health. And he did entirely for people's mental health. Ugh.

    So he was opened throughout that absolutely rife period of infection in late December/January. No excuses for that. Mental Health my hole.


  • #1148
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    Can I ask a genuine question please?

    The Indo is reporting today that 'the far right is insidiously working to encourage business owners to defy the regulations'.

    How does the Indo know these people are 'far right'?

    And what is insidious about protest?

    Surely we need someone to offer an alternative view to the current cozy consensus.

    Many self employed people are truly desperate for their businesses to survive. The common denominator between RTE, the politicians, NPHET and AGS is the full-time pensionable jobs.

    I am suspicious when all protests to the draconian restrictions are automatically labelled 'far right' and 'insidious'....

    To be pedantic, the quote does not say the protest itself is insidious as you claim, it says the work being done to encourage the protest is insidious.


  • #1149
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    Rockfish wrote: »
    Protests have not being labelled 'far right' nor has protest being described as 'insidious' but often the people bhind them are far right groups and individuals who are insdidous. Ids there any name or contact numb er to the Tralee leaflets?

    I have no idea. Does that matter?


  • #1150
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    To be pedantic, the quote does not say the protest itself is insidious as you claim, it says the work being done to encourage the protest is insidious.

    Yes pedantic


  • #1151
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    Who is there to vote for?

    It speaks volumes about the failures of FF and FG that young people are flocking to Sinn Fein. An alternative based on pie in the sky economics with ties to terrorism.

    Heres a novel idea. Vote for someone else.


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  • #1152
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,517 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    To be pedantic, the quote does not say the protest itself is insidious as you claim, it says the work being done to encourage the protest is insidious.

    I would have thought it was common knowledge who is behind and encouraging this, and they are definitely freeman espousing, anti-authority, anti-foreigner loopers.


  • #1153
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    The portrayal of Boris as a 'spoofer' is wearing thin.......

    More than 18 million people in the UK have received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine - part of the biggest inoculation programme the country has ever launched. The number of first doses administered each day had been steadily climbing since December - reaching more than 400,000 a day mid-February.(BBC)

    Ireland vaccines administered to date 359,616 (as of today)
    Ah the old apples and oranges whataboutery. He's not responsible for their performance any more than our government can credited for what the HSE are doing here. Oh, and his dates are fluid.


  • #1154
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Could you be a star and point me to where I might read NPHETs recommendations directly? Annoying me now at this stage...

    Apologies for saying you're posting disingenuously by the way, perhaps it was the government/DES decisions, and the "feeding recommendations from NPHET" about the phased reopening had me assuming.

    No promlem.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/

    Obviously things are discussed at the cabinet sub committee meetings with NPHET that are not included in the letters, but there is no indication that NPHET disagreed with the phased strategy proposed by DES.

    There could well have been discussion around 2 phases / 3 phases / 4 phases etc. but I don't believe they would have been prescriptive as to what age groups should return in what order.


  • #1155
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    A gym owner in Buncrana has been fined 2,500 for opening his gym. Overwhelming majority of posters supporting him on Donegal Daily.

    I thought he opened recently and with people being fed up were siding with him. However, he has been open since the first week of December. Stating people were asking him to open for their mental health. And he did entirely for people's mental health. Ugh.

    So he was opened throughout that absolutely rife period of infection in late December/January. No excuses for that. Mental Health my hole.

    Fair play to him.
    Unless you think 1 gym being open contributed to the entire surge? :rolleyes:


  • #1156
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,244 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    mcburns07 wrote: »
    Rather than "just out of caution", wouldn't any restrictions / measures be in response to an outbreak as opposed to applied widely?

    Also, under what provision of the health act could they be brought in as a "just in case" use. The current legislation is based on the prevalence and treat to life. What possible reason can they give with 70/80% vaccinated?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1157
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    Yes pedantic

    Maybe, but it also renders the questions you went on the ask afterwards disingenuous at best.


  • #1158
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    I would have thought it was common knowledge who is behind and encouraging this, and they are definitely freeman espousing, anti-authority, anti-foreigner loopers.

    Where is the link? I would have thought it reasonable to support protest against draconian lockdown measures while not being 'right wing' and/or 'anti-foreigner'?

    I have no time for fascist loopers - genuinely want to know what is behind this reporting


  • #1159
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Tyrone212 wrote: »
    A gym owner in Buncrana has been fined 2,500 for opening his gym. Overwhelming majority of posters supporting him on Donegal Daily.

    I thought he opened recently and with people being fed up were siding with him. However, he has been open since the first week of December. Stating people were asking him to open for their mental health. And he did entirely for people's mental health. Ugh.

    So he was opened throughout that absolutely rife period of infection in late December/January. No excuses for that. Mental Health my hole.

    Gyms are one of the worse places to open up:
    C.D.C. Traces Covid Outbreaks in Gyms, Urging Stricter Precautions


    Anyone opening up a gym during the height of the recent wave very likely contributed to it, and has gotten people killled. Needs to be far harsher punishments for something so blatant.


  • #1160
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    I completely disagree with this, there were many months up to and including this month where at least some of the economy (construction) could be opened safely, but we aren’t doing that. How exactly would opening construction cripple everything?

    During the first lockdown cancer screenings were cancelled for much of it, even though the curve had long been flattened and hospitals were not under pressure at that time.
    There is no reason for GP’s not to be performing smear tests at the moment, but many of them have suspended services because of level 5.
    Women are having to pay privately to have it done because they cannot find a GP who will do one,

    Those are just 3 examples off the top of my head.
    I don’t think offering those services or opening up construction would cripple anything.
    And I don’t see what other conclusion I’m supposed to come to, other than that they are intentionally doing this because they want to direct all resources and attention to the seriousness of the virus.
    For context, I’m not suggesting we let it rip. But I do think there have been times up to and including today where more of a balance could have been met if common sense was applied.

    Cancer services in various hospitals were cancelled during the first wave. I don't think we can disagree with them on that because it was impossible to know then what was actually coming. Since that first wave most services had resumed operation at reduced capacities until the third wave struck. Now there's uncertainty over resumption of activities everywhere.

    GPs and smear tests is a more bizarre one. As the level of service, any service outside of smear, varied from GP to GP. throughout the pandemic. I can understand maybe when they were overwhelmed with COVID cased. Many weren't though and I've seen some horrific practices by some GPs that I would suggest borderline neglect towards their patients but fat chance of anything ever being done about it.

    Anyway, any health resource used to service COVID is a resource that cannot at that time point in time be used to service another ailment. Even a scan of a COVID patient's lung has delayed someone's else scan.

    Construction has been the sector that is open the longest. It'll be one of the first to reopen and likely would already be reopen if it wasn't for the additional challenge the new variant poses. Simply put early education is the priority and nobody knows what impact that's going to have. Hopefully none! Given how sensitive our current predicament is to having to revert back to an even longer protracted lock down it's not a risk worth taking.

    Outdoor activities is the harder one. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. There's no evidence in Ireland or the UK of spread from outdoor events. That has to be taken into account with both Islands having inadequate contact tracing to be able to determine if such a spread did occur. Outdoor activities is certainly the lowest risk. If you have sufficient numbers of them though then spread will likely occur. An analogy would be the lotto: Everyone's chances of winning are miniscule. People still win the jackpot. Ireland's question is one of a very fine tuned balanced as their disease profile so high. I honestly don't know where I stand on that myself. Can see both sides of the argument.
    SusieBlue wrote: »
    It made me wonder why it was safe to go for a pint, get a haircut, or buy some non essential retail items in Italy (the European ground zero of covid) in May

    It wasn't safe*. The biggest drivers of infections globally are restaurants, cafes and gyms. There is a constant danger of looking to what's happening in Europe when both Europe and the US monumentally fcked up their handling of this. More to the point though, the situation in one geographic region at one point in time may be markedly different to that of another e.g. Kerry vs Dublin, Ireland vs Italy. Looking at two different spots at the same period in time is counter productive. The disease profile in both could be very different. You can't even compare stats between two countries or regions unless you know all the intricate details of how the various metrics were recorded.

    *Not sure about haircuts but that'd risk making this post way too long and esoteric.


  • #1161
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    Maybe, but it also renders the questions you went on the ask afterwards disingenuous at best.

    How can questions be disingenuous?


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  • #1162
    Rockfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Rockfish


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    I have no idea. Does that matter?

    Yes i would think so.


  • #1163
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    mcburns07 wrote: »
    Rather than "just out of caution", wouldn't any restrictions / measures be in response to an outbreak as opposed to applied widely?
    I don't know, good question. Reading what people are saying in the US they don't expect them to reach herd immunity, and instead they will tolerate a low-level of spread which will increase over Winter, and will coincide with "normal" flu season. Even with a vaccine you don't get 100% protection. It doesn't sound like we should expect lockdowns, but we might see limits on the numbers who can gather indoors in certain situations.


  • #1164
    Rockfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Rockfish


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    Where is the link? I would have thought it reasonable to support protest against draconian lockdown measures while not being 'right wing' and/or 'anti-foreigner'?

    I have no time for fascist loopers - genuinely want to know what is behind this reporting

    Supporting or taking part in the protests isnt right wing but generally the people behind them usually are.


  • #1165
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Paul Reid unhappy with people out and about

    If he’s unhappy with the amount of people out and about during weather warnings he’d better prepare himself for the amount out and about during dry sunny weather.


  • #1166
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    hmmm wrote: »
    Not quite that simple. Chris Whitty in the UK has said he thinks restrictions may be needed over Winter
    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-some-covid-restrictions-could-return-next-winter-chief-medical-officer-warns-12180133

    US experts are saying the same
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/2021-01-08-covid-live-updates-vaccine-news-n1253431/ncrd1253481#blogHeader

    We might need some restrictions next Winter just out of caution - I'm expecting people may be encouraged to work at home, not go to work if sick,

    Personally that would be a cultural change I would appreciate.

    Speaking as someone who worked 60 hours in 4 days with a bad flu due a deadline quiet a few years ago. Then when I handed the competed project to my boss he told me there was a taxi outside to bring me to A&E. That's something I am never doing again and I hope no one will ever be expected to do in the future.


  • #1167
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,057 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Turtwig wrote: »
    It's very concerning especially when you consider how much certain services were curtailed.

    Actually wish this was done properly. With a thorough analysis of how mental health is impacted. Self reported surveys are not reliable for this. At all. Given the seriousness of the potential impact to mental health. The CSO can't be faulted here, they've done their part but really in truly the government needs to get their head out of their asses and organise proper in-depth research into the mental health of the nation.

    Background depression rate (1 in 4) hasn't changed so at least that's consistent? But having people self identify as depressed is kind of pointless. All that tells is us pretty much everyone feels crap. The government can easily brush that aside due to the situation we're in. We need a thorough screening done of a random sample of the population like a seroprevalence test to assess our actual mental health and the level of service required.

    I go to some of the public mental health services and was there last week, and it was a lot busier than it was the last few times I had been. They had to delay my next appointment longer than usual too due to the numbers they're seeing they said.


  • #1168
    Tork
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭Tork


    marno21 wrote: »
    Paul Reid unhappy with people out and about

    If he’s unhappy with the amount of people out and about during weather warnings he’d better prepare himself for the amount out and about during dry sunny weather.

    I'd prefer if he and his comrades were bursting their balls to lay their hands on as many spare vaccines as they can, and to roll them out as quickly as humanly possible. Just look at how Denmark nipped in and got their hands on a load of extra vaccines.


  • #1169
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Tork wrote: »
    I'd prefer if he and his comrades were bursting their balls to lay their hands on as many spare vaccines as they can, and to roll them out as quickly as humanly possible. Just look at how Denmark nipped in and got their hands on a load of extra vaccines.

    When will Denmark be able to avail of these extra vaccines?


  • #1170
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    marno21 wrote: »
    Paul Reid unhappy with people out and about

    If he’s unhappy with the amount of people out and about during weather warnings he’d better prepare himself for the amount out and about during dry sunny weather.
    Did he state this or was it in answer to a question?


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  • #1171
    nsnoefc1878
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭nsnoefc1878


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    How can questions be disingenuous?

    You claimed, wrongly that the indo was calling the protests insidious.
    I think that could quite easily be classed as disingenuous.

    And thats giving you the benefit of the doubt.


This discussion has been closed.
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